In a discussion with Chareidi educators including Yad Aharon Rosh Yeshiva Rabbi Yehoshua Eichenstein published by the Kan and Mako news outlets, Rabbi Edelstein quoted the gemara in Sanhedrin which says that “one who has relations with a married woman has a portion in the World to Come but one who publicly shames his friend has no portion in the World to Come.” He added that “even if according to halacha we need to beware of someone, there is no leniency or even hint of leniency allowing people to spill blood and murder a Jew. It is obvious that this is deemed murdering him and it is obvious that the murderer has no portion in the World to Come. It is clear that the great pressure he was under led him to lose his sanity and kill himself. This is called murder.”
Lawless hareidi society. Sdom I
ReplyDeleteBnei brake
Didn't rav elyashiv disagree? Doesn't rav shternbuch shlita disagree?
ReplyDeleteOr is it that "our abusers " are protected, and a Zionist beit din has no authority to judge on matters beyond chicken and eggs?
Nonesense!
ReplyDeletewhat nonsense is that, you have been openly saying that loshion hara does not apply to child abuse. They did not go to secular police but to a beit din.
ReplyDeletehttps://daattorah.blogspot.com/2013/07/halachic-synopsis-for-child-domestic.html?m=1
ReplyDeleteOn what basis are you claiming this
ReplyDeleteSomeone violated Torah or secular law
Or maybe it is your hatred of anyone who doesn't think like you!
This is who he was
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3546788,00.html
He is saying that such matters, allegations cannot be investigated, as suicide is clearly murder.
ReplyDeleteIt is not a rational statement. There is too much emotion involved for anyone to think rationally.
BTW, a rodef or laws of rodef also apply to rapists.
ReplyDeleteSo you think your people are infallible. Obviously.
Whose"they"
ReplyDeleteIt is not lashon harah tor report to police or anyone who has the ability to stop the abuse.
It all started as an article in Haaretz - are you condemning Haretz for writing the article and not simply have their sources go to the police and wait for a police investigation and trial?
Nonsense=
ReplyDeleteyou clearly don't understand what I post
And again you are simply wrong and confused
ReplyDeleteYou missed out what happened in the intervening weeks, a bet din was formed, took testimonies of dozens of victims, invited the accused to defend himself, and he refused to come forward.
ReplyDeleteEpstein also killed himself, do you blame the accusers for that too?
They - victims - went to the Eliyahu /silman BD
ReplyDeleteTherefore?
ReplyDeleteSomeone was accused of abusing many kids. That violates secular law. You have also fought for recognition that it violates Torah Law.
ReplyDeleteAlso, re rav Gershon 'S statement about adultery (which was also accused in the BD), why then do chareidim say loshon hara about rav S kamen, r greenblatt, r rackman, r kraus etc? After all, worst case is they allowed adultery, but saying ĺ h about them leaves you no place in the next...
Read Rav Aviners's letter -he addresses the issues that you find difficult to understand
ReplyDeletePubliciing helps protect about future problems-this has been discussed a number of times already
ReplyDeleteThis is a horrible tragedy. Dozens of women were molested and possibly raped but who's the real victim? The perpetrator!
ReplyDeleteHe claims, however, he was not part of the BD. RAV elyahu contradicts aviners claims. Aviner has a history of trying to conceal abuse.
ReplyDeleteNope, Aviner it telling plenty of lies.
ReplyDeleteSee below, a quote from Rav Eliyahu:
When asked about the line in Walder’s suicide note saying that he
would take Rav Eliyahu to din Torah in Shamayim, the Rav replied,”In
this world he wore a disguise, but now he is in the Olam Haemes where
the truth is revealed. He will not reach Shamayim, people like him do
not reach Shamayim.”
Ms. Perez went through the shocking list of victims, both adults and
children. Rav Eliyahu’s Bais Din heard 22 testimonies, including a 9
year old girl, many teenage victims, even a mother who brought her son
in for counseling.
The Rav replied that he shed many tears over the horrific stories,
adding, “The severity of what he did is equal to murder. You look at the
eyes of the victims and you can see it.”
He said that it’s important to emphasize to victims that they did nothing wrong, they are completely innocent and pure.
The Rav described Walder’s tactics, saying “This man was a genius, he
knew how to impact people and excite people and that is how he
developed connections. He was very helpful and supportive. In the end
people would fall into his cobwebs.”
The Rav said that he spoke with Walder and urged him to do teshuva.
He also praised the Rabbonim in Bnei Brak, saying that they were
extremely supportive of the Bais Din and tried to get Walder to
cooperate.
https://vinnews.com/2021/12/28/rav-shmuel-eliyahu-the-moment-walder-died-dozens-of-girls-were-saved/
It is not only Emanuel Goldstein who lives in this society, it is also Double speak, thought crimes, and INGSOC, or BneiBrakSoc
ReplyDeleteIrrelevant - He has no authority to act as a prophet
ReplyDeleteSo he has proof -or is he just spouting off?
ReplyDeletehttps://daattorah.blogspot.com/2013/09/child-abuse-how-do-we-speed-up-progress.html
ReplyDeleteWednesday, September 11, 2013
Child Abuse - How do we speed up progress?
Right now, it is being slowed down or reversed!
Nope!
ReplyDeleteYou can become hysterical and call people names -but that irrelevant
Read the full statement by Rav eliyahu, it may help lift the veil in front of your mind
ReplyDeleteWhat you really mean is that your daas T in bnei B is prophecy - so nobody has authority to challenge it.
ReplyDeleteseems you don't always believe what you post ;)
ReplyDeleteno hysteria, and no name calling ,
ReplyDeletethe issue is abuse. You are the one who is trying to conceal the reality that a proper BD has found plenty of testimony / evidence against the accused.
You have previously relied on Rav Silman's psakim, are you now saying he is chas v'shalom phoney?
https://daattorah.blogspot.com/2011/06/reporting-even-suspected-abuser-to.html
Nope!
ReplyDeleteWhat is a proper beis din?
Seems you have a major comprehension problem!
ReplyDeleteMore nonsense!
ReplyDeleteOne that is not afraid of what people , and is not co ncerned with sales revenue of associated goods.
ReplyDeleteYoujust made that up - wow!
ReplyDeletewherein shulchan aruch or rambam?
Did I?
ReplyDeletethe Gemara (Sanhedrin 6b) in explanation of this phrase:
- Reish Lakish says: … But once you hear their statements and you know where the judgment is leaning, you may not say to them: I will not submit to your request to judge you, as it is stated: “You shall not be afraid before any man” (Devarim 1:17).
- Rabbi Yehoshua ben Korḥa says: From where is it derived that a student who is sitting before his teacher and he sees a point of merit for a poor person or liability for a wealthy person, from where is it derived that he should not be silent? As it is stated: “You shall not be afraid before any man”; he should fear neither his teacher nor the wealthy litigant.
- Rabbi Ḥanin says: The verse intimates: Do not suppress your statement before any man.
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ReplyDeleteWeekly Torah Portion » Advanced » What's Bothering Rashi?
Bribery
Shoftim (Deuteronomy 16:18-21:9)
by Dr. Avigdor BonchekBribery
This parsha deals mainly with the laws that are relevant for the just running of a society. The Torah teaches how this can be accomplished.
Deuteronomy 16:19
"You must not pervert judgement, nor show favoritism; you must not accept a bribe for bribery blinds the eyes of the wise and distorts the words of the righteous."
RASHI
You shall not accept a bribe - Rashi: Even in order to judge justly.
therefore?
ReplyDeletethe gemorah says beis din must hear both sides before making a judgment
ReplyDeleteAnd if one side refuses to show up?
ReplyDeleteThe book business is a multi million dollars enterprise and cash cow for bnei brak and this suggests financial interest.
ReplyDeleteIf it is a self appointed court- tough luck for the court
ReplyDeletemore nonsense1
ReplyDeleteSince you have no real evidence-you make
it up
Nope, the court spoke to the complainants
ReplyDeleteMoney sways even the tzaddikim. I didn't make that up either.
ReplyDeletethe statement by Rav Edelstein is not clear about who he is attacking. is it the secular paper? Is if the orthodox BD of Sfat?
ReplyDeletePerhaps he has not thought through issues of abuse, and still has old world views on it. Even Druckman held that view - it is not about Modern vs Hareidi, since Modern , eg Norman Lamm also suppressed information when he was running YU.
Is hareidi world viewing eishes ish a lite matter nowdays? The statement is talking about olam haba, but in olam hazeh adultery is not exactly a minhag or lite gezeira that you can lift with a heter.
And therefore ?
ReplyDeletewhy is Rav Moshe's case any different, in terms of lo tzais dino? That is not a good letter to have on one's record.
ReplyDeleteIn any case we are not getting anywhere-
in this case, what do you suggest should have been done?
Are you basically saying what happens in Bnei Brak, stays in Bnei Brak, and outsiders should not get involved?
The complaints should go to the police and let them investigate and decide whether to file charges - not really complicated
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteIt was the zchus of the haaretz article that brought the matter to light. I don't know the procedure in Israel for such matters, and why they are often dealt with in Beis din. Plus, rav Aviner was suggesting it goes through din Torah.