Saturday, June 16, 2018

anti-zionism or anti-semitism in the chareidi world - guest post seeking clarification

horatio -

9:37 PM (1 hour ago)
to me
Rav Eidensohn, thanks for posting my previous message. Hopefully it

was of benefit.

In other news, R Yaakov Shapiro of Bayswater, Long Island, NY ? , SIL

of R Yerucham Gorelick, just wrote a 1300 page book against Zionism

called "The Empty Wagon" and seemingly it went for a second printing

within a month or two.

Zionist sympathizers are of course not happy, and one spin throws bad

accusations at him.

I don't know how to evaluate the truthfulness/falsehood of these things. I also do not know what is the correct course of action, neither on the assumption that the accusations are true nor on the assumption that they are false. There is also the idea that ולא אמרן אלא דלית ליה אויבים אבל אית ליה אויבים אויבים הוא דאפקוה לקלא (יבמות כה. מו"ק יח:)

I forward the information to you for your decision and action, and I withdraw. I only add that I believe that if appropriately pursuing this will hurt the cause of anti-Zionism, so be it.

ברוב הוקרה וברכה

‘The Empty Wagon’: A Review Of R’ Yaakov Shapiro’s Attack on Zionism

By Rabbi Yair Hoffman
Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro’s “The Empty Wagon” is one of the most controversial books to hit the Orthodox world in decades. Its 1,373 pages deal with the reaction to the Zionist movement within the Orthodox Jewish world and attempt to debunk much of what the Torah community believes about Israel’s modern history.

Most interesting to me is Rabbi Shapiro’s claim throughout the book that the Six Day War was not “miraculous” at all and involved no nissim whatsoever. Rabbi Shapiro attempts to back this up through Internet searches, citations of a few U.S intelligence reports, and quotes from the Satmar Rebbe, zt’l.

I choose to believe other sources, especially Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, zt’l, the Mirrer rosh yeshiva.

In Az Yashir we read the reaction of the nations in the aftermath of the exodus from Egypt: “Then the chieftains of Edom were startled; as for the powerful men of Moab, trembling seized them.” Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, zt’l, notes that this pasuk seems to be revealing some great chiddush or insight. Yet is it not obvious that when faced with open miracles people are startled and tremble? (Hagaddah of the Roshei Yeshiva of Mir, p. 226)

Rav Chaim Shmulevitz answers that it is not. It is the nature of people not to change themselves even after seeing open miracles. “This explains why people around us now are not changing after seeing the open miracles of the Six Day War,” adds Rav Shmulevitz. This shmuesswas delivered in June 1967 in the Mirrer Yeshiva in Yerushalayim. The Mir experienced an open miracle when a bomb that crashed through the ceiling did not explode.

So there we have it. Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, zt’l, says straight out that there were open miracles. He also explains exactly why Rabbi Shapiro refuses to recognize the open miracles of the Six Day War.

So who do we go with: Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, zt’l, or the author of this book?

Reb Dan Waldman, who fought in 1967, recollects the following:

“We had 200 planes. They had three entire air forces. Rabim b’yad me’atim — we had 2.5 million Jews; they had four entire nations. There were numerous miracles.

“There was no feeling like it in the world. I remember soldiers saying that they will not liberate Yerushalayim from Shaar HaAshpa [Dung Gate]; they went in through the Lions’ Gate. Everyone realized that these were open miracles — chareidim in Bnei Brak and even the most secular people.

“Hashem won us this war not in six days but in six hours. There were such nissim. The Jordanians knew that our planes were bombing those of the Egyptians. They sent a message to Egypt. Hashem made it that they changed the codes the previous day and did not inform the Jordanians. This was Yad Hashem. The complete destruction of the Egyptian Air Force in hours. This was Yad Hashem.”

On a personal note, my entire family and I were in Yerushalayim at the time, and my parents, aleihem ha’shalom, never stopped talking about what happened in Yerushalayim that week. My mother and uncle were hit by shrapnel on their way to the bunker we stayed in while being shelled. The entire nation, both religious and irreligious, experienced nissim and niflaos — from the soldiers who liberated the Koselto the Jewish families in the bunkers.

Thus, the author’s abnegation of the opinions of gedolei olam, the bomb in the Mir miraculously not exploding, the experiences of soldiers and run-of-the-mill citizens, and my parents’ personal experience, leaves me with an unpleasant aftertaste.

Throughout the book, Rabbi Shapiro attempts to demonstrate that the strongly anti-Zionistic view of the Satmar Rebbe, zt’l, was the same view of the gedolim of the past and the yeshiva world. In this reviewer’s opinion, his analysis is fundamentally flawed. To say that this premise is grossly inaccurate is a serious understatement.


  1. Words are cheap. Is there any corroboration?
    There is NO smoking gun as to Shapiro’s alleged inappropriate conduct.
    An OTD woman say something on Facebook, and we're expected to buy it?

  2. I know nothing of R. Shapiro and do not put him above the law - or above susceptibility to human failure. However, this Widger woman does not come across as stable and trustworthy, at all. How is it that this one woman was preyed upon by so many men? Is she making claims in order to advance her advocacy? And is her advocacy just for her to have a cause?

    If her claims are similar to other people's claims, that would be one thing. But if there aren't any other claims by a stable/reasonable person, then it's hard to take her seriously.

  3. Oh, so this is the moron that claims there is no such thing as a Capital city in Judaism, and that Jerusalem was never a capital city of Israel. what an ignoramus - the Tenach clearly states that that King David ruled Israel from Jerusalem. And what does Shlomo hamelech say? יב אֲנִי קֹהֶלֶת, הָיִיתִי מֶלֶךְ עַל-יִשְׂרָאֵל--בִּירוּשָׁלִָם

    His seat of ruling power as King was in Jerusalem.

    So this moron Shapiro is an apikores. And his friends are the nazis, KKK, David duke, Ahmadinejad and other holocaust deniers - yemach shemam.

  4. וַיִּחַר לְמֹשֶׁה מְאֹד וַיֹּאמֶר אֶל יְקֹוָק אַל תֵּפֶן אֶל מִנְחָתָם לֹא חֲמוֹר אֶחָד מֵהֶם נָשָׂאתִי וְלֹא הֲרֵעֹתִי אֶת אַחַד מֵהֶם:
    Korah was an apikoras---didn’t believe that Torah from God and didn’t believe that God spoke to Moses. At end Korah, in midrash, declares Moses and his Torah are truth and we are liars.
    Baba Bathra 74a
    “He said unto me: Come, I will show you the men of Korah that were swallowed up [Cf. Num. XVI, 32ff]. I saw two cracks that emitted smoke. I took a piece of clipped wool, dipped it in water, attached it to the point of a spear and let it in there. And when I took it out it was singed. [Thereupon] he said unto me: Listen attentively [to] what you [are about to] hear. And I heard them say: Moses and his Torah are truth and we are liars.”
    Nedarim 38a
    “R. Johanan said: All the prophets were wealthy. Whence do we derive this? From Moses, Samuel, Amos and Jonah. Moses, because it is written, “Moses was much aggrieved and he said to the Lord, Pay no regard to their oblation. I have not taken the ass of any one of them, nor have I wronged any one of them” (Numbers 16:7). Now, if he meant without a hiring fee did he then merely claim not to be one of those who take without a fee? [Surely he did not pride himself on not being a thief!] He must hence have meant, even with a fee [I.e., he had no need to hire an animal, possessing so many himself. Therefore he must have been wealthy.].”
    Korah and Dathan and Abiram attacked Moses and Torah of God. Moses defended himself that he never took anything from anyone, much as Samuel defended himself.

  5. what is Zionism? And why are extremist hareidim (or even mainstream) so afraid of it? The 10 spies who rebelled were afraid of losing their power, so we are told.
    But on another level, everything that secular people do is suspect to reactionary hareidim. If secular build a shopping centre, a hospital, university , or design computers, technology etc, they ar all suspect. Some Jews were more concerned with saving lives and reclaim the Land of Israel than were some frum people - and that is unacceptable to the anti-zionists.

  6. update:

  7. Come on. She was allegedly molested or sexually assaulted by three different men. Come on.

  8. In the full article, Rabbi Hoffman quoes "Let us also recall that both Rav Elyashiv, zt’l, and Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt’l — among numerous other gedolim — signed a Kol Koreh that stated: “Nodeh
    L’Hashem al she’zachinu b’rov rachamav v’chasadav lir’os es ha’nitzagim
    ha’rishonim shel kibbutz galiyos im hakamasah shel medinas Yisrael …
    k’dei she’artzeinu u’medinasainu tivneh v’tischonen al taharas

  9. Actually, she claims a lot more than three. It's all in her various Facebook posts. None of them have a ring of reality to it.


  11. The world knows nothing about Rabbi Kook !

    Their is much to be disclosed about the hidden life of Rabbi Kook and his Masonic connections!
    which exist until today see the shas picture

  12. Eddie look up the research of rav Dov Berkowitz he has a ton of info about Israel and the Zionists and he is from the Mizrachi camp,amnon yitzchok has many u tubes with his speeches about rabbi Kook

  13. Note the masonic hand signs by the high echelon members of Israel
    see the hand signs of rav kook who is he flashing ?

  14. We must find out about Rabbi Abraham Isaac Hacohen Kook
    Who was he really ?

    see about his relationship with the non Believers and note the Masonic hand sign

    hand in Lapel of ushshikin head of Histadrut

  16. uring a session of the 19th Zionist Congress in Switzerland, the delegates received the bitter
    news: Rabbi Abraham Isaac HaKohen Kook, the Chief Rabbi of Eretz Yisrael, had passed away earlier
    that evening in Jerusalem. Overcome by grief and mourning, the session was brought to an early close.

    When the assembly reopened, Dr. Chaim Weizmann invited Menachem Ussishkin, respected Zionist leader
    and president of the JNF, to say a few words in honor of the beloved Chief Rabbi. The text below is
    from Ussishkin’s eulogy at the Congress.

  17. That is a beautiful eulogy!

  18. Kifirah!
    Look at his friends the greatest destroyers of yidddeshkeit ! A true Godol!! ahem

  19. Berel-

    a) you are a nobody
    b) Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer said to Rav Chaim Ozer, "we are Gedolim until we reach rav Kook's door knob".
    c) there is no issur in putting one's hand under one's jacket or coat.
    d) I will try this myself, perhaps I will get more business from the British and other freemasons.

    e) I think the Saudi prince might be doing this too, so perhaps I can get some lucrative contracts from Saudi, especially now that there are some people threatening boycotts.

  20. A You are small small little Man :
    B Google the research of Rav Dov Berkowtz ( a brilliant former Kipah srugah) (a frequent guest of amnon Yitzchok daily show )

    1To find out who rabbi Kook realy was Pure avodah Zarah and Clearly he had at best a love affair with the new testament and He said speech meshumad Herzl is Moshiach be yosef
    2 He caused the slaughter of Chevron Yeshiva

    3 He refused to make peace with Rav Sonnenfeld Historic fact see The Gere rebbe visit 1930 well documented refusal to rebbes offer of borirous even though rav Sonenfeld signed and agreed to the strict terms !

    His whole coming To Israel and yerushaliam in 1917 was Firmly against the wishes of rabbi yitzchoz Y Diskin and Rav sonnenfeld ALL the true rabbonim of Yerushlaim

    He came with intention to Break the Chomah of Reb Yehoshuah Leib Diskin

    he WAS WORKING FOR THE British crow N

    4 everyone was afraid of him because he was the only one who pre state of Israel was able to issue a Certificate to enter Israel

    5The ragothhover openly came out against him

    He was extremely close to reformed jew Herbert Samuel ant ushsikin and was clearly part of an Agenda see Berkowitz thorough research and then talk

    E. Also see the following: about Hand in Lapel Avodah Zarah


  22. One of hte many Speeches of Rav Dov Berkowitz on Zionists

  23. Amnon Y is a loser, he was put down by rav Ovadiah Yosef, so he is not one to rely on.

    No idea who your berko friend is , again a 2 bit loser.

    R' Sonnenfeld had some relations with Rav Kook, but they opposed each other's ideology.

    Nobody can oppose a Jew coming to Israel - there is no basis in halacha for that. Ramban states it is a mitzvah D'oraita to live in Israel, hence you and your friends are reform kofrim.

    As i said, Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer said to R' Chaim Ozer that Rav Kook was much greater than they were.

    Rav Elyashiv was an important follower of both Rav Kook and rav Herzog.

    There are a lot of conspiracy theorists who are complete meshugaim, they are usual antisemties, KKK, communists, holocaust deniers etc.

    When in tehran Ahmadinejad was denying the holocaust, the Neturei karta went there and publicly said only 1 million Jews were killed.

    So it is clear where you get your secular information from.

  24. You have provided no evidence that R' Kook was a freemason. You are simply asserting it as a fact, without any evidence.

  25. i am not going to waste 4 hours listening to this drek.
    It would be more informative to watch 2 fotoball matches than to listen to some Neturei karta piece of dreck, who is friends with KKK and neo nazis alike.

    Rav triebitz gives shiurim on Rav kook.
    Rav kook was close to the Netziv, the Chofetz Chaim, the Leshem (Rav Elyashiv's grandfather) and many other gedolim. Amnon Y and your buddy berko are nothing - they are not even recognised as talmidim chachamim. Amnon is a big talker but he is not a gadol or an authority in anything.

  27. Just curious: Did you read the full text of the hesped about Herzl?

  28. Did you know that RSZ Auerbach had one of the editors at Machon Yerushalayim fired because he would not include comments of Rav Kook in one of their sefarim?
    Did you know that the Chafetz Chaim refused to participate in one of the Agudah conventions because he heard someone say something against Rav Kook there?

  29. Halevai that all of the gedolim should be able to connect with all Jews like he did.

  30. You are bananas. I see people with their hands in their jackets/coats all the time. It is a totally natural position.

  31. This Blog is about Pursuit of Truth otherwise why blog at all?
    But You believe in your beliefs and insist on staying with them ,
    Are you afraid of losing the debate?
    Is your position so precarious that you are blocking it from view?

    Are you fearful and afraid of being confronted with the truth?
    Rabbi Berkowitz is a former talmid of Kipah Serugah crowd Highly educated and sourced heavily ,every word he says is backed by impeccable sources.

    So dont continue to protect your self from the truth
    The pen is mightier then the sword

    You can only be scared if you suspect hat you will ultimately Lose. be a Man

  32. see this blog about the censer ship of rabbi Kooks kfirah writings by his own (never married) son Tzvi Yehuda Kook

    (by the way rabbi A Y Kook has no progeny remaining that are frum)

  33. A Picture is the best proof

    the pendant that he is wearing is the best proof
    the Huge welcome he received when ha came to NY 1924 and lunch with the President Coolidge is the best proof Lunch with ambassador also proof

    Wake up my friend

    When ever was a rabbi so honored by the Monarchs of Us Canada and Of course Great Britain ?
    Google rabbi Kook and see the glowing reports in all the Mainstream News papers of the day
    He Was a mason an Insider

    a very much trusted insider .

  34. Ahmadinejad Was a Mason google him making a horned hand sign the masons play both sides
    to fool people like me and you.
    dont get carried away by the fake news in the press find out your truth.

  35. Horav Amnon Yitzchok is a true marbitz torah and a Baal Mofes and a true Ben oilam Haboh Rav Ovadia.Yosef was politically inclined in this matter , and so this matter is meaningless

  36. )Rav elyashiv was Muchram From the Brisker Rov Reb Velvel (for joining Rabinate and being a Misarev when called by reb Velvel to dissuade him from so joining) .

    Fact in Brisk the roshei Yeshiva ( Reb Dovid etc.)would never say 'Rav' Elyashiv ,Only 'Elyashiv says this' 'Elyashiv says that.'.

  37. The Yishuv Hayoshon the majority of the then population was fighting rav Kook from the first day he arrived.

    He came with intention to battle /change the Psak of Reb Yoshuah Leib Diskind on being separate total from the secular ones.

    Stop reading the propaganda of the secular Mizrachim and the fake news seek out you truth

    There 25 000 people voted each year to go out of Vaad Leumi "Kooks Vaad so "to remain separate from the secular.this continued up untill 1948 long after Rabbi Kooks death

    Dehaan ,rav Sonnenfelds Shliach was Killed for this ! (by eitzel) of the vaad leumi kooks vaad!

    stop buying into the fake news seek out your truth!

  38. no, just a waste of time,

    i've met this type of character, and seen them in Tehran denying the holocaust..

  39. Berel, you mention Rav Sonnenfeld a lot , as though he was the greatest authority of his time. You also make judgements about the "secularists" that rav Kook would talk to.

    a) They both traveled together to secular Kibbutzim to do kiruv.

    b) If you want to start passing judgement, then you should know that Rav Sonnenfeld's closest confidant was Yaakov De haan - a fagele.
    De Haan was involved in the worst possible toevah and arayos, was a promoter of toevah in Holland, and was practicing in Eretz yisroel, all under the nose of Rav Sonnenfeld.
    He also remained married to his non-Jewish wife, all the time he became "frum".

    As for freemasons, this is just a red herring and chasing after conspiracy theories. In fact, the Freemasons are not even so popular anymore, heard of the Illuminati?
    All the Islamic/Nazi/terrorist/atheist/communist antisemites are connecting conspiracies to Zionism. this actually began before Zionism, with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. This was an antisemitic text, and it is the kind of thing that your lot are conniving with the KKK and Hamas against Zionists and Jews all over the world.

  40. Berel, you are basically recirculating the following claims about Freemasonry and Zionism :
    It is typical of Neturei Karta, who have little or no knowledge of torah, and little or no knowledge of logic or secular learning. they go from one Hamas protest to another, cavorting with Amalek, like a zonah looking for her next job. Along the way they pick up these filthy leaflets from amongst the Hitler loving KKK or Ahmadiinejad, then the incorporate it into their "oral law".

  41. Edddie
    Bring some real scholarship to the table my dear
    If you make any claims bring proof not Blather!!

    No free time for FAKE news

    Those days are over!
    Today everything is documented Google is your friend!

    Chas vesholom to say this about true GerTzedek ! De Haan

    Recognized by the Ish al Hachomah the universally acclaimed Rov of Yerushliam Shel Maleh Rav Yosef Chaim Sonenfeld best talmid active Muvhak of reb Yehoshah leib Diskind . at their behest

    He did over his Gerus and followed every word of Reb Yosef Chaim ...Chas veshulem to speak evil of such a tzadik
    (Go ask mechilah at his Grave to remove any heavenly repercussion..serous! )

    You are showing a cheap disregard to the will of real rabbonim of the Yishuv Hayoshon ...

    Rabbi Kook Was NEVER the rov of Yerushliam Never! As a matter of fact read ish al Hachoma for the details of which Kook Promised them in Haifa when he landed to the representatives of the Kehilla in Jerusalem(who heard that he is coming and traveled before he arrived to warn him off because he was already known for his loose ideas and strange views )So Kook Promised them that No that he Kook will NOT try to take the position of Rav of Yerushliam see ish al Hachomah page 345 390

    He kept his promise for 4 months after which he changed his mind decided to call himself Chief Rabbi of the whole Country!recognized by the British Mandate Government !with of course help from his Masonic friends in Great Britain (who paid ALLhis bills from day one utill the day of his death ) since he was working for them (he ever had frum yerushalmi backing only after he was in a Government Position with Power of Certificates greater then any one other then his close close friend Herbert Samuel the Governor of Palestine

    Rabbi Dov Berkowitz Sourced every word he says.
    You can find the location of hi hundred of pages of sources in the comments of his YouTube speeches

    He also quotes Rabbi Marvin antelman who is also a great source non neturei Karta as a matter of fact he was in the RCA for many years a Dayan besides being a chemist he made it hi life's work to source out the foundations of Reform conservative and Zionist State to prove that it is all Masonic he wrote 4 books on this topic He is not a Neturei Karta and neither is Rav Dov Berkowits he is the furthest from neturei Karta that can possibly be !

    Sorry to Burst Your Bubble Stop drinking up the Fake news. remember the news people dont even believe it themselves!!!! dont be so Gullible

  42. Rav
    Kook had much opposition from all over the establishment, to the extent
    that some printers no longer published his approbations to their new
    editions of older books that originally carried them.

    In 1920, a twelve-page booklet entitled Kol Shofar
    was distributed in Palestine criticising Rav Kook, the then Chief Rabbi
    of Palestine. He was ridiculed for his endorsement of secular education
    and attacked for his interaction with the non-(and anti-)religious
    early Zionists. He was criticised for his tolerance of other faiths even
    accused of creating a ‘Christian-like cult’.

    It is said that the Chazon Ish, a founder of Chareidism in post-independence Israel, said that one can study Rav Kook’s halachic writings but NOT his hashkafic or philosophic books.

  43. Also his Kfirah expert kofer, friendly with kofrim ,

    Fact:caught with a new Testament under his pillow in Switzerland when a Guest of the Sternbuchs etc

    Oh My what A truly enlightened fellow
    A true Godol!

    or a cheap highly paid collaborator with Amalek Eisov
    Eddie,Maybe go to his Kever for a Bracha!


    Kook had the most novel approach towards atheists. Instead of viewing
    them as ideological enemies, he believed they had a positive role play.
    Their job was to purge us of some of the ‘foulness that has attached itself to religion.’

    has a temporary legitimacy because it is needed to purge the foulness
    that has attached itself to extirpate the dross that
    obscures from man the true light of G-dliness....Through the clash of
    these contradictory forces (atheism and religion), mankind will be aided
    greatly to appreciate an enlightened knowledge of G-d.”[8]

    Its like saying Hitler was good !because he brought Jews to reflection and caused the cleanings out the dross



  45. De Haan wrote poetry about going to the Kotel unsure if he was going to pray or to pick up Arab boys. That is not fake news, you can read it yourself. And Ish al Hachomah is full of half-truths and mischaracterizations.

  46. You are a peddler of conspiracy theories and nonsense. So is this Antelman clown (as anyone with Google can easily see). By all means, start your own blog and find some gullible folk to read it, but please go away from here.

  47. Shows what a joke your little corner is. Rav velvel was a great academic of Talmud, too many people criticized Rav Chaim's method of mixing philosophy with Talmud. But Rav velvel is largely forgotten, he had little engagement with the outside world.
    But thanks for your loloshon hara against Rav elyashiv.

  48. Amnon is a joke. At least reb velvel knew how to learn.

  49. Hareidi extremists. Of course CI would forbid philosophy. Do any chareidi read Maimonides non halachic work? Very few .

  50. Today it's hard to find a gadol in the yeshiva world. But you are bringing nobodies and unknown like berko.

  51. They had a problem with Rav Shach as well 😁

  52. 1) De Haan did not have geirus, he was born a Jew.

    2) he was a mumche in mishkav zachar, and was practicing lo k'darko le'maaseh

    "Jacob Israël de Haan (1881–1924) was a Dutch teacher, novelist, poet, legal scholar, and journalist. In 1904, De Haan published his first novel Pijpelijntjes, which
    is a thinly veiled version of his own promiscuous gay life with Arnold
    Aletrino in Amsterdam's “Pijp” working-class district. The book is
    dedicated to Aletrino. Aletrino and De Haan’s fiancée bought almost all
    copies of the book to prevent a scandal that would involve both of them,
    and De Haan subsequently lost his job. De Haan’s Pathologies: The Downfall of Johan van Vere de With was
    published in Rotterdam in 1908. He also wrote poetry, and a line from
    one of his poems adorns the Amsterdam Homomonument. In the 1910s he
    became interested in Zionism and left Amsterdam for Jerusalem. He was
    murdered in 1924 by a member of the Zionist organization Haganah. Read
    more about De Haan here."

    3) Antleman is a well known nutjob, he is a scientific fraud, and has made fake patents for his "cure" to AIDS. he was supposedly hunting the Sababteans, whom he held to be the true illuminati. Another conspiracy crackpot. The only point I would agree with you on is that he was from the RCA and MO.

    I think there is a mainstream orthodoxy, and a crackpot fringe - and it seems you belong to that crackpot fringe group, as do Berko, Antleman,Amnon etc. de haan was in fact a true Sababtean in practice, as he enjoyed maasei s'dom and mentions in one of his poems that he was not sure if he goes to the kotel to pray or to pick up arab boys.

    Lehavdil the mainstream orthodoxy that I mention are such great figures as the Netziv, Chofetz Chaim isser Zalman Meltzer, who all supported and were friend with rav Kook. The netziv said that Volozhin was only created to produce a talmid like rav Kook. rav Auerbach and rav Elyashiv (or mr elyashiv to use your phrase) were his followers, also of Rav Herzog.

    I accept that some Gedolim opposed rav Kook, and they might be mainstream, eg rav Elchonon H'YD. But very sadly, and his sone admitted, rav Elchonon was mistaken by the situation in Europe, whereas rav Kook was correct. The Leshem, (or his he also a Mr in you sick fringe book) was one of the hidden Tzaddikim, and master of kabbalah but he wasn't as famous in his day as other Gedolim - and was of course very close to his friend Rav Kook. The Gur rebbe said that rav Kook was a Torah giant.

    i am not going to convince you berel, but we could have similar discussion about th Rambam. I remember some hareidi rabbi-fools saying that the Sefer mada (in Mishneh Torah) and the More Nevuchim are both assur to read.
    With idiots like that on the scene, it is better to go to a football match than to listen to these apikorsim!

  53. I think on this occasion, Gerald should be making some positive comments!

  54. That's Order of the British Empire, or Commander..
    it has nothing to do with masonry. I would agree that it could be derived from a "cross", but so is the tie that many Rabbonim wear around their necks, also derived from the cross.

  55. it doesn't matter where he is from. He is no longer there. only de Haan wanted to Gaydern (not Modern) orthodox.

  56. You are totally clueless. R' Tzvi Yehuda did get married. Are you holding it against him that he was not zocheh to have children?
    I don't need to go to that blog; I have the sefer at home. It is brilliant.
    Did you know that [redacted - early Chassidic rebbe] had a son who became Christian? And that [redacted - one of the greatest achronim] had a grandson who became a priest? What exactly is your point?

  57. I wonder where you dig up the "sheker" about Rav Kook's family.

    "his own (never married) son Tzvi Yehuda Kook"
    In 1922, Reb Tzvi Yehuda married Chava Leah Hutner in Warsaw. Chava Leah died childless in 1944, and R' Tzvi Yehuda remained a widower until his death nearly 40 years later.

    "Rabbi A Y Kook has no progeny remaining that are frum"
    שלושה צאצאים נולדו לראי"ה מאשתו השניה. הרב צבי יהודה, בתיה מרים ואסתר יעל.

    אשתו של הרב צבי יהודה נפטרה בצעירותה, והוא לא נישא בשנית. כך שלא הותיר צאצים אחריו.

    הרבנית בתיה מרים התחתנה עם הרב שלום נתן רענן , ונולדו להם שלושה צאצאים: אברהם יצחק (טבע בים בבחרותו), הרב שלמה רענן הי"ד (נרצח במיטתו) שהותיר אחריו שני בנים ובת, והרבנית פרום (נישאה לרב מרדכי פרום שנפטר בצעירותו) שיש לה בן ושתי בנות (אאל"ט).

    אסתר יעל נהרגה בגיל שתים עשרה וחצי.

    בסה"כ, מכל צאצאי הראי"ה (לבתו הראשונה שנישאה לבן האדר"ת לא היו צאצאים) היום יש נכדה ושישה נינים. כולם יראי שמים.

  58. Avraham Avinu was childless with Sarah Imenu for many years and only by Divine miracle was Yitzhak Avinu born.
    But many Gedolim have not had the zchut to have childrenm, including the Hazon Ish, and more recently Rav Shmuel Auerbach. As for rav Shach, his son was a modern , and his grandchildren became secular.

    But none of this proves anything. You are fixated and have very poor sources, and rely more on Amalek than on mainstream jewish sources. You have been mevazeh Gedolei hador, and nothing you say can be relied upon.

  59. I don't think you meant to direct this to me.

  60. Rav Kook Had Much Kfirah in his writings According to the Gerer Rebbe Letter he wrote on the Boat when departing from his visit to EY in 1930,

    He says He confronted Kook about the Kfirah statements He publicized in hi Book and publicly

    Rabbi Kook asked Mechilah
    He Apologized !
    He clearly said many Apikoris statements

    He was Very friendly with all the worst elements

    I am saying is he must be investigated
    For some of the following reasons
    1 For all the Masonic hand signs and pins
    2 The wicked eulogy for Herzl the Meshumed
    3 His friends all being Galuchim and meshumadim , 4.Friendship with Jabotisky and Achad Hoam !
    His constant talk about Jesus

    For sleeping with a New Testament under his pillow
    5 His enormously powerful ability as ONLY JEW besides Chaim Weizmann With the Power to bypass the British Mandates White Paper whenever he so desired and issue a Certificate of entry from 1918 up to His death.

    6 Rabbonim were in fear of him he was vindictive
    7 Poland was in those years in very bad economic times a double dip all through the roaring Twenties
    Many times receiving His certificate was Pikuach Nefesh
    most of the communications will gedolim was about Pikuach Nefesh .

    8 No one held him to be a real godol
    only a "Rav Mitam". Government appointed Rabbi

    9 Do you think the Chofetz Chaim didnt Know about His speech for opening Hebrew University?
    Said while Facing the Mokom Mikdash ?

    10 Do you think the Chofetz Chaim didnt Know about the Fast day Proclaimed the Yishuv Hayoshon on the Day He (kook) Opened up the Rabinut?
    Wake Up!
    (The leshem also received a certificate and also his son in law Rav Elysiav who came as a young boy )
    So much more research this stop being so gullible

    He was an enigma at best

  61. See the controversy on Rabbi AY Kook

  62. no, sorry, to beryl character

  63. Avraham Avinu was childless with Sarah Imenu for many years and only by Divine miracle was Yitzhak Avinu born.
    many Gedolim have not had the zchut to have childrenm, including the
    Hazon Ish, and more recently Rav Shmuel Auerbach. As for rav Shach,
    his son was a modern , and his grandchildren became secular.

    none of this proves anything. You are fixated and have very poor
    sources, and rely more on Amalek than on mainstream jewish sources. You
    have been mevazeh Gedolei hador, and nothing you say can be relied

  64. it wasn't the Chofetz chaim who said this. this myth has been spread on the frum teens website and also one of your fagel friends .
    Someone else used that expression, and it was wrongly attributed to the CC.
    the CC said something quite the opposite. he said he wanted to move to israel, but if he did, his friendship with rav Kook would mean that many people would abandon the Mishne brurah.

  65. deHaan was mishkav zachar. Perhaps you are like the Gay Orthodo of today.

  66. Sorry, I saw a link of yours to the Kotzke rebbe blog about Rav Kook's censored writings.
    Yes, the reason for this is that he was a very advanced thinker and his philosophy was much greater than people can understand, especially in the isolationist hareidi world.
    Some of his views are even too extreme for me :)

    But he was on a level of very rare gedolim, like the Rambam, the Ramchal, Rav Yaakov Emden or the Arizal.

    You point out his comments about Xtianity - but what does Rambam say? he says Islam and christianity were the works of Hashem to straighten the path for the Moshiach. That is an incredible idea - and if an average Rabbi says it he would be called reform, or apikores.

    What did the meiri say? he siad Xtianity is a noble religion and not avodah zarah. So does Rav Yaakov Emden.
    If rav Kook didn't support Zionism, there would not really be much of a debate about him, he would be someone like the Yaavetz or Maharitz Chajes.

    other great gedolim have said things which are considered apikorsus by Hareidim. The yavetz,and the Chasam Sofer denied the authenticity of the Zohar, as did several others. Chasam sofer also criticised one of the Lubavitcher rebbes for forbidding shaving a man's beard. Can you imagine someone say that today?

    truth is, Rav kook was a scholar of immense proportions, and doesn't need validation from some nutty fanatics who suck up to hamas and Arafat - yemach shamam. Nobody is studying the thought of Rav Diskin or rav Sonnenfled today, becasue they basically didn't have any thought or hashkafa, they were simply gedolim in halacha, that's it.
    If someone were to disrespect Rav Elyashiv the way you and your ilk do, they would be "massacred" in the mainstream litvish world. And look at rav Shach, he was the last great Litvish gadol who had complete following by the misnagdim, and yet the Soloveitchiks massacred his reputation.

  67. most of what you say is nonsense,ie the allegations.
    he wasn't constantly talking about Jesus - perhaps someone asked a question.

    So you oppose pikuach nefesh?
    Most of the gedolim knew him and said praise for him, as I have already mentioned the Netziv. We have seen that the CC was a close friend, so you are making up lies about the CC.
    The Netziv was greater than the few Rabonim of the old yishuv, and greater than Reb velvel ztl. IMHO he was also greater than the CC, because he was head of Volozhin, and had the tradition from the Gra and Rav Haim Vollozhiner.

    you talk about Jabotinsky as if he were a bad man - but he was a heterosexual and a great oheiv Yisroel.

    In Europe he saved many lives against the pogroms, and pikuach nefesh defers regular mitzvot.

    His doctrine also saved lives in Israel. More jews would have been saved from the holocaust if they had followed Jabotinsky and rav kook.

  68. "2 The wicked eulogy for Herzl the Meshumed"
    Herzl was tinok she'nishboh- hence he is not considered meshumad. herzl was also a baal teshuvah, but he did not have time to complete this path. His teshuva was to save the Jewish people from death in Europe - and thus his concept of State was also part of the Geula.

    great rabbonim such as the Rambam, Chasam Sofer, Rav Kook see the bigger picture and see things deeper than regular people or even regular rabbonim.

    Rav Elchonan was a giant in torah. and absolute European gadol. but he could nto see the forest for the trees, and did not have the depth of vision to see what was going on. sadly his own ideology led him to make terrible errors with fatal consequences.
    What gedolim liek rav Elchonon HYD lacked in spirtual and prophetic vision was passed on to the people you call meshumadim. it is like an inverse relationship with Yissoschar. Herzle and Jabotinsky were not involved in halacha or learnign, but they saw what others could not see - they saw causality and the imminent threat to Jews, and the opportunity to return to EY. Nevuah was passed on to children and fools, since Chachamim had lost it.

    rav Kook combined both traits of genius, Torah Gadlus and spiritual and physical insight in the way of the world. because the European gedolim did not have this vision, some of them opposed him.

    Rambam cites chazal , saying that there is no difference between now and yemi moshiach except for shibbud malchus - so haalchically speaking, the lifting of foreign occupation of EY is equivalent to yemei moshiach. This has been achieved by the hidden and guiding "hand" of Hashem. Any and every Jew in Galus can today freely move to EY. This has never been the case before in history.

  69. You know little or nothing about the Leshem or his grandson.

    Brisker Rov was a great genius, as was his nephew Rv JB. today, brisk is a joke , people just go there for shidduchim from rich families - they can go back to America and find a rich wife. the joke about the brisk yeshiva is that when the melamed sneezes, he says that is the place in the gemara that the brisker rav would sneeze. they are not producing any great thinkers or analytical styles or insights or gedolim.

  70. 1: Nonsense.
    2: Did you ever read through the hesped about Herzl? Do you know the circumstances under which he gave it?
    3: False.
    4: False, false, and false.
    5: He is known for helping even those who opposed him vociferously.
    6: Source?
    7: ??
    8: False.
    9: Did you read what he said there? It was a powerful statement about what the University should and should not be, and the importance of yeshivos relative to the University.
    10: Not sure what that has to do with anything. The yishuv hayashan did not want there to be a rabbanut. So what?

  71. where is your "fact" about the NT ?


  73. what nonsense, who wrote this rubbish? it is claiming in one of the screeds you attached that all non_hareidi Jewish practice is the same as Protestant Christianity. Funny, I have been to many shuls and several nonHareidi yeshivos, and they do not look like Protestant churches to me. I have even visited some English historic churches, and they do not look like non hareidi shuls. The sidur used in England was based on the Chief rabbi, and it does say a prayer for the Queen, but nothing about yashke.

    No, this is all falsehood and nonsense.
    Btw, the gadol hador in Israel, rav Elyashiv spent several decades in the non hareidi sector, the rabbanut and also was under rav Kook and Rav Herzog. SO not only are you calling him Mr elyashiv, but also you are calling him a Protestant. nice one, mr apikores.
    The late Gadol haDor in America, Rav Belsky ztl, the posek was involved in the OU kashrus and sat with Rav Shachter shlita , of YU. So are you saying that also OU is Christiian, and that Rav (or Mr Belsky) was a protestant?

    You ae a very sick and vindictive individual , and you are mevazeh talmidei hachamim.

  74. De Haan and his gay poetry

    he had even discussed his gayness with Rav Sonnenfeld, who apparently looked the other way.

  75. Yes, many of these points are based on the Rambam. Do you also consider Rambam to be a heretic?
    Rambam says that both Yashke and Mohammed were put here to clear the path to Moshiach, - Yashke to teach the concept of moshiach, and Muhammed to teach monotheism. Rav Kook is just expanding onthis. Also Hameiri whow as the Gadol hador after Rambam, said the same things about Christianity.
    Regarding his comments on halacha, again there is ambiguity on which laws were Halacha L'moshe misinai. In Perush al ha mishnah, Rambam gives a number, i think 19 or 20 , a list of such laws. But later on in the Yad, he contradicts this figure, and includes other laws also. It is not controversial to point out a stirah in a halachic discussion. What do you think Rabbonim do when they learn? Perhaps you have not learned enough, but this is what commentators do all day - they learn different opinions and try to unify or resolve the contradictions if possible.

  76. Rav kook was Ashkenazi chief rabbi of Israel, not Jerusalem.

  77. What did Jabotinsky do to save the Jews during world war II?
    Why did he sit so so quietly?
    Why did he not make Demonstrations?

    when it came to reparations he made loud demonstrations!

    The war took Seven Years! What did he do to save the Jews from annihilation? to publicize the wholsale murder?

    Only the frum Jews did something !Fact

    Jabotinsky and Begin sat by quietly!!! snuck out of Warsaw and (took all the funds )and left to israel

    They left 450,000 Jews to get killed in Warsaw !!

    Menachem Begin saved his own Self and got released from Warsaw Ghetto and didnt do a thing to notify the world !!

    Why ? Why? Because "Rak Bidam thiyeh Lanu Haoretz!!!"
    "Only with Martyrs will We Gain the Land "
    The Mantra of Stephen Wise and all Zionists throughout the war.
    Sitting on Millions of Dollars they all sat out the war Dd nothing substantial till after the slaughter of most of the frum Polish Lita Jewry was almost complete!
    Hitler the British agent had to complete his job

    Stop buying into the Zionist Media

    Look up Sallie Meir ! Joel Brandt

    Golda Meir ! Kurt Becher Kastner trial !

    Look Up Chaim Weizmann during the war Quiet like a Mouse!!!!
    letting the Nazis finish up the Job of removing the frum Vermin Look up Stephen Wise

    These were all kook s friends
    Herzl was no Baal teshva LOL his idea was to bring the Jews to Israel and then Shmad them so Jesus can come again Fact look it up
    Stop being a Puppet to the accepted world media.
    stop being am haorets.

  78. This is all true !but why? did the Biographers leave it all out?
    Why ?

    Is his family ashamed of the sad history?
    All the years heading the Rabinate Apeals Court?(appeals are not possible in halacha)

    Why is that left out ?

    The new dor is ashamed!

    But If they think he was a godol why leave out truths from his official biography? if its a Mitzvah so let it stay?

    Only they were ashamed of that side of him
    Just like Reb Shlomo zalman aurbach was ashamed of his fathers mistaken beliefs and reb Samuel aurbach who in his younger years had a picture of kook on the wall later in his older took it down,and when asked why? He said my son Shmuel is not comfortable with it!

    the old dor in Israel was a Hunger
    People were dying in the streets during WWI
    the Chaluka ceased
    so at that time they had no choice!
    Let us not Judge them ..but it is not for today.

  79. see the above and also dont ut words in my mouth.

  80. Stop talking about De Haan 's alleged gayness He was not the Rabbi ! only an attorney to represent the massive Yishuv hayoson through the Esteemed true& only Rov of Yerushliam Rav Sonenfeld. Ztzl

  81. Rav Sonnenfeld cooperated with RAv kook, but opposed his views on certain matters.
    He was one Rav, not the only.

    berko is nothing. I rely on major gedolim such as the Netziv , Isser Zalman Meltzer, Leshem etc who testify to Rav Kook's greatness.
    In any case, your ideology has failed a basic test of halacha. Rambam brings the gemara which says the difference between now (then) and yemai Moshiach is Shibood malchios. Today Eretz Yisroel is 90% or 80% in Jewish hands, and essentially, all the Jews in the Diaspora are free physically to return to Israel. A few years ago, Syria, Yemen and Iran were preventing Jews from leaving. Today Syria and Yemen have no jews, and Iran has allowed Jews to leave, although they would leave to some other country, eg America, Turkey, UK , Germany etc.

    So the 3 oaths, which are not halachic are not relevant. The Ohr sameach said they had no validity after the Balfour declaration.

  82. A lot of great thinkers have family who are scared of their hareidi communities. As you mention, rav SZ Auerbach ztl was the gadol hador. But his son was a peewee compared to his father, and he was not really an important figure. Rab Auerback (the real one) had greatness and kulas, but the younger one was the opposite, he had chumras and was not really great. they kicked him out of Degel.

    In meah shearim people are scared of the terrorists (Hareidi ones). It is like a shmad, or marranoes. Just like in Spain they were forced to convert to christianity, and in Yemen to islam, so in meah shearim peopel have the same fear , except it is from the Hareid nutters like you and NK. There is an Amalek and it has transferred from the Spanish Inquistion, the Islamists and the Nazis to the Neturei Karta, who still love Arafat, and the other mamzeirim that they sat with in Tehran. I would be scared in Meah shearim, so why shouldnt anyone else be?
    They attacked Rav Elyashiv and even rav Sternbuch, becasue he was lenient on some alleged gravesite.

  83. Before, we had stan, but at least he knew something.
    Then we had moe Ginsburg, but at least he was respectful to Rav Elyashiv and Rav shach.
    today we have a new headcase called Berel, and he doesn't know much, and he is disrespectful even to the Misnagdic gedolim.

  84. what about the satmar rebbe and other hareidim who told their flock to remain in Europe? Not to go to America or israel, and in the end they escaped themselves.

  85. anyway, i am taking a break from this blog, good luck with your friend David Duke of the KKK. You deny that 6 million jews were killed, right?

  86. Your penchant for misquoting names and facts is disturbing, and detracts from any credibility you may have.

    "R Hezogs father in law Hiller".


    His name was Horav Shmuel Yitzchak Hillman, and he did NOT have a kollel in Yerushalayim in 1917.

    In 1934, after retiring from the London Beth Din, R' Hillman settled in Yerushalayim, devoting himself to study and writing. He took under his wing, Kollel Ohel Torah, which had been founded in 1930 by R' Isser Zalman Meltzer and R' Moshe Mordechai Epstein.

    Rav Kook was niftar in 1935.

    This is your third-fourth strike, and you're out!

  87. "Reb Elchonon Wassermann Talmid Muvhak also spoke very much against everything Kook stood for ."

    Yes, he had certificates to go to USA with his talmidim, and decided to get killed instead. Again, was offered certificates to move to Israel with his students but refused. It's possible to be great in one subject, but fail in another.

  88. sorry for the inaccuracy however the point remains the same regardless

  89. The Yishuv Hayoshon the majority of the then population was fighting Rabbi Kook from the first day he arrived.

    Rabbi Kook came with intention to battle /change/eliminate the Psak/derech of Reb Yoshuah Leib Diskind on being separateand not apart of the from the secular ones. as a public policy Reb YL Diskind was moiser nefesh for this time and again during all the 27 years he was residing in yerushaliam see the biography Hasoruf Mbrisk

    Stop reading the propaganda of the secular Mizrachim and the fake news but seek out your truth

    There were 25 000 frum people voting each year to separate themselves out of Vaad Leumi "Kooks Vaad leumi and even aligning with the Arabs ! Yes the Arabs! They all felt better aligned a believing Arab then a Apostate Jew even aligned with Arabs "so to remain separate from the secular. Vaad!

    (the government sided with Rabbi Kook as he was working for/with them )so they required the frum Jews to renew their opposition each year (maybe they will forget be lazy etc.),this continued many years up until 1948 long after Rabbi Kooks death 13 years more yet 2500 Jews voted each year

    The only way Vaad Leumi had population was through aliyah bet and the different new groups of Zionists

    this was a continuation of the Mesorah instituted by the greatest godol of recent times reb Yehoshuah Leib and followed by his Star Talmid Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld see 'ish al hachomah' or better yet see the three volume 'Mora Darah Yisroel' Biography of rav Sonenfeld

    They had many meetings about this with Jordan's King

    This is why Dehaan an excellent lawyer was Killed

    These Rabbonim
    Together 62 years continuously Jerusalem followed the directives of these two Great Gedolim also slightly Overlapping the 50 years of Reb Shmuel Salant Fully accepted rabbonei Yerushliam

    This is the true Mesorah of Yerushaliam

    Any who differs with this is deluding himself and robbing himself from his rightful heritage!

    and until Dehaan ,Rav Sonnenfelds Shliach was Killed for this ! (by eitzel) of the vaad leumi kooks vaad!

    stop buying into the fake news seek out your truth!
    See al the Kefirah of Kook and begin to learn the true old path.

  90. There is no question that Rav Kook advocated a different approach to secular Jews than Rabbis Diskind/Sonnenfeld etc. That does not mean that he was wrong, that does not mean that his approach was kefira, and that does not mean that he was not held in high regard by the vast majority of the Torah-observant community in Yerushalayim.
    What "astounding kefira" are you referring to? Chapter and verse, please.

  91. Why you repeating the same old lies, even though they were refuted?
    It was not the CC who said that, that is like perpetuated by your NK propagandists. It did not even exist a few years ago.
    Dehaan was a gay rodef, and he "aligned" himself with arabs in more than one way...

  92. See the Following Video of Jerusalem in those days! 1918

    See the contrast to today the supposed "Glick " of the 'State of Israel"

    Look at the modesty of all the women at the Kosel !
    The earnestness of the Men unaffected by the western eisov yovan culture!!

    You can observe that no mechitzah was needed because all the women were properly clothed and were not a distraction!
    Notice the humbleness of all people and realize that this Medina is not a Blessing but a curse a nisoyon and extremely difficult one, almost insurmountable !!

    Hashem yirachem oleynu!!
    See what Rabbi Kook help constructed? or better destructed!

    May we all be zoche to overcome the western Chutzpah and immodesty of thought and action and Kfira ~!
    and Look Up to truth and true real Gedolim

  93. Pictures of the Kosel 1918

  94. You know what you don't see in that picture? All of the non-Torah observant Jews, who simply weren't there. Perhaps you would prefer that they disappear from the face of the Earth, but I would prefer that they retain their connection to the Kosel, even if it means having to deal with women who are not dressed modestly.

  95. "You can observe that no mechitzah was needed because all the women were properly clothed and were not a distraction!"
    So you think mechitzah is not halachic requirement? very good,

    perhaps we can have mixed prayer today as well, Are you Reform?

  96. actually, rav Kook's followers dress closer to this than hareidim do today - Hardal women wear longer skirts, and wear cloth over their hair, but European/american Hareidim wear skirts to the knee and also designer sheitels. meanwhile a lot of men wear very expensive shtreimels, which has no connection to Torah u mittzvot, so it is not even a hiddur mitzvah. The income from Badatz hechsher goes towards this hevel havalim.

  97. if the land of Israel had become an Arab state , it would have been Felastin, and the same kind of savagery taking place in syria would be happening there as well. There would not even be any of the old yishuv left alive.

  98. The Kosel was not a Shul

    In those days it was a Holy holy Mokom tefilah Miyuchedes

    Not like today all kind of RIF RAF visiting dressing any which way,believer and erev rav Kofrim all mixed up !
    a place triumph and Zionist Valor ..

    It Was Called the"Wailing Wall" for a reason

    Nowadays the Wall itself is wailing copious tears !!!when it sees all this!!

  99. Those "rif raf (sic)" are Hashem's precious children. Once again, I am gratified that the "yemin mekarev" has ensured that those people retain a connection to the Kosel, even if they come dressed any which way.
    If a parent has a child who stopped observing the Torah would come to a Pesach seder, do you think the parent would delight in their coming, or wail copious tears at the length of their skirt or his long hair?

  100. It's still not a shul. It's the same wall, remnant of the Beit hamikdash. The beit hamikdash was not a shul either. Sacrifices are not made outside the kotel.

    There is a chazal, or mishnah that a women's section was built in the 2nd temple. So it's not clear what happened before then? Did they have mechitza or was it somewhat mixed?

  101. Jews come from all over the world because they remember the temple. So this disproves what you say. De haan, the gay pride of the Eida was the true riff raff, pursuing his gay conquests by the Kotel.

  102. At the secular Tel Aviv University what Jewish students don't have the mass brawls however in Ponovezh yeShiva they do .
    Something went wrong here...

  103. No. Lack of accuracy in your arguments, is a reflection on your credibility!
    If you don't bother to get your facts straight, then why should anyone accept your conclusions?
    Perhaps the point you're trying to make, is merely a half baked idea, based on assumptions and made up facts?

  104. Berel: "Rav Kook Had Much Kfirah in his writings According to the Gerer Rebbe Letter he wrote on the Boat when departing from his visit to EY in 1930"

    IR:The Gerrer Rebbe did not visit Israel in 1930.
    He visited in 1921, 1924, 1927, 1932, 1935.

    The letter from 1921 can be found here:

    The Gerrer Rebbe had tremendous respect for Rav Kook.

  105. Hebew University students - even the secular ones do not get into mass brawls with other Jewish students 9perhaps unless the Arabs get involved), however, why are there regular brawls, violence in Ponovezh, not only between the "talmidim", they also attack each other's rebbes.

  106. Berel: "Menachem Begin saved his own Self and got released from Warsaw Ghetto and didn't do a thing to notify the world !!"

    IR: You are information challenged.

    In September 1939, after Germany invaded Poland, Begin, escaped to Vilna to avoid inevitable arrest. The town was soon occupied by the Soviet Union. On 20 September 1940, Begin was arrested by the NKVD and detained in the Lukiškės Prison. He wrote about his experience of being tortured, in later years. He was accused of being an "agent of British imperialism" and sentenced to eight years in the Soviet gulag camps. On 1 June 1941 he was sent to the Pechora labor camps in Komi Republic, the northern part of European Russia, where he stayed until May 1942. Much later in life, Begin would record and reflect upon his experiences in the interrogations and life in the camp in his memoir White Nights.

    In July 1941, just after Germany attacked the Soviet Union, and following his release under the Sikorski–Mayski agreement because he was a Polish national, Begin joined the Free Polish Anders' Army as a corporal officer cadet. He was later sent with the army to Palestine via the Persian Corridor, where he arrived in May 1942.

  107. Jabotinsky died in 1940, 1 year into the war. Hillel Kook, nephew of our master and Gaon, worked to save hundreds of thousands, and even Rav Aharon kotler was working with him. Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe mocked Rav kotler for being mechalel shabbes to save lives.
    People tried to save lives. Negotiations with Germany were not easy. They demanded gold, money, trucks. The allies refused to help, and blocked entry to Israel.

  108. "Hitler the British agent had to complete his job"

    No, he was enemy of British, not their agent. Stop Buying into these conspiracy theories you picked up in Tehran.

  109. Rabbi Dr Zerach Warhaftig, a religious Zionist, saved thousands of Jews from Europe, both religious and secular. He went to the Hareidi yeshivos, but the virulently anti-Zionist rabbonim refused to accept his visas , which they called "asher yatza " papers. These "great" rabbis were also haters of Rav Kook. Meanwhile, one Yeshiva called Mir did accept his help, and they managed to save the entire Yeshiva.

  110. You have no point.
    You just ramble on and on, filled with misinformation, and invective against people greater than you.
    You appear to incapable of discerning the subtleties and nuances of gedolei Yisrael.
    But it's not your fault. You were fed this by people you admire, and you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

  111. Stick to historic facts I haven't seen you dispute

    the essence ,Heart

    of my very important record of those times

  112. Yes, the Gra and Besht aliyot were frum. Why did the Gra promote aliya? Because he saw atchalta de geula. Herzl also believed in this. Gra was gadol and gaon in Torah. Herzl was assimilated but realized (like yonah) he cannot hide from G_d.
    Jews were assimilated, it's not Rav Kook that caused that. Herzl realized assimilate is futile. He wanted all Jews to return. It is the beginning of teshuva.

  113. You have no meaningful analysis to dispute.
    If you have something concrete to say, please sum it up in three sentences or less.

  114. WHAT he is attempting to argue is that the old yishuv was largely frum, whereas the new yishuv and Medina is largely frei.
    But this was the case all over the world. Hungary - reform. Germany - reform. Russia - communist. Etc etc. Also, Israel had Jewish population prior to the 19th century. Shabbetti zevi and Nathan of Gaza lived in Israel back in the 17th century before the Gra was even born. even before these picturesque old days or the Golden era that Beryl is trying to describe there were various Jewish populations and offshoots from orthodoxy.
    Some of the gra perushim converted to Christianity however they remain silent about that or blame modern rabbis . But this is reality.

  115. "the old yishuv was largely frum, whereas the new yishuv and Medina is largely frei."
    Those are facts. The question is, why?
    I'm waiting for Berel to put in his 2p. After thinks that all he has it all figured out, so I would prefer to let him share some of his "brilliance" in his own words.

  116. Ok so so maybe go there join the Stuffed Pig eaters !

    thats my point !
    whats wrong with a honest brawl?

  117. Read this:

  118. The 'Old Yishuv 'does not include the Sfardim even though They had long history going back to the Ramban

    Because sadly they were not experienced in this unable to fight back the Haskalah and so mostly they rolled over and succumbed to the Missionary, Zionist,t Haskala, Sabitanian, Messianic ,onslaught

    The Ashkenazim Were the only ones equipped to deal with this epidemic and malaise!
    Reb Aharon Katzenellebogen (the main talmid of reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld the "Father" of Neturei Karta the Rosh yeshiva of Torah Veyirah of meah shearim Said in a speech said that he heard from his father Reb Avrohom Moshe Katzenelbogen who studied in the Vilner Goans Kloiz that the reason the talmidei HaGRA came to Israel because the Gra said that a great calamity nachshol regarding Chinuch is descending on the world (haskalah)and maybe , maybe we can save ourselves in eretzyisroel!

    The fact is that the Perushim were scarcely affected by Haskala battled mightily and and surely fared a lot better then all other areas

    only due their understanding that a war is going on and now we have to fight to save ourselves Create a WALL a chomah around ourselves
    And Rav Yeshuah Leib Diskind crystallized this into a simple defensive battle :unyielding ,and unrelenting.

    And today there are at least 10,000 boys in Kosher Talmid Torahs throughout yerushlaim Not taking a cent from the Medina

    The success is astounding!

  119. Herzl was a dedicated christian!! He Never circumcised his son Hans !!He was buried in a christian cemetery He therefor was also baptisesd himself !

    He always had a Xmas tree in his home Fact
    He wished to Shmad the Jewish people so that THEN Jesus can come again! stop believing the Lulaby narrative THAT YOU WERE FED



  121. What's wrong with beating up the Rosh Yeshiva you disagree with? The Neturei karta do this already for a long time. Ponovezh learning from Brisk and Satmar - all the bad traits.

  122. I Never witnessed a anti Zionists dong anything other then talking ,

    Its the people hearing what they are saying that are the ones losing control ,forgetting about Ahavas Yisroel?? !
    And doing the violence!

  123. Rav Avigder Miller in on Rabbi Kook 1970

  124. I wonder what Rav Miller would say today?

  125. And this:

  126. You respect Rav Kook and YU? 😝

  127. Nk going to holocaust denial conference in Iran, sitting with kkk, Hamas, etc. But they would not sit with yu or mercaz harav rabbonim.

  128. What was Rav Miller's views on Rambam philosophy, eg moreh nevuchim? Or ralbag science and philosophy? Or ibn Ezra?

  129. Rabbi Miller was a Satmar collaborator, and had very skewed views of reality, In any case, he is expressly being careful not to dishonor rav Kook, he only claims that R' Kook made an "error". But he made a number of claims that are very strange - eg the Holocaust was a "chesed". The Torah does not say that disasters will be "chesed", on the contrary. Plus, majority of Holocaust victims were frum Jews, whereas many of majority of reform managed to escape. Germany's Jews escaped, something like 70-80%.

    No rational or objective academics take anything that Rabbi Miller says too seriously.

    The bio says he was in Rav Hutner's yeshiva- Rav Hutner said that rav Kook was 20x greater than all of his opponents put together.

    R' Miller says America is a blessed country, and that American Jews should kiss the ground, because they found refuge there.

    I am pro America, because I like Jazz music. However, is this the same man who is blasting Zionism and saying the Holocaust was good thing? Despite the Torah saying it's a mitzvah to live in Israel (Ramban), to save life, and not stand idly by, and despite the Talmud saying it is better live in Israel even if the secularists eat stuffed pig, than to live in America, even if they have Glatt Kosher. But somehow he alelges saving Jews is a abd thing, and America is holier than Eretz Yisroel?
    he was the mashgiach ruchani of the C.B yeshiva - which now explains the general low character of people who have been to that yeshiva.


    Berel, his book on the Holocaust was published posthumously , ie after he was niftar. he was too afraid of publishing it while he was alive.
    BTW, Rav Hutner published an article on Daas torah in the jewish Observer, claiming a number of very bizarre things. Amongst them he said that the word "shoah" is a modern word, and does not appear in the Tenach. However, it does appear, several times. The small lines after Aleinu shebeach, says do not fear the shoah of the wicked - it is a line from the Tenach. This is clearly an error by a major Hareidi gadol , and it was caught by Prof Kaplan on his rebuttal of the article.
    So even Gedolim can make basic errors - it is not impossible.


  132. I could spend a month detailing all of his objectionable opinions.

  133. My Modern rosh yeshiva said "we are closer to the Eidah /neturei karta than we are to secular Israelis". I agree , I prefer to eat badatz food than Chas v shalom go to the treif restaurants in Tel Aviv, serving "seafood" (crabs, lobsters etc).
    The Torah of Rav Kook is the same Torah of Rav sonnenfeld.
    If you want to test a diamond, you need scientific tools that they develop in Europe .
    Another example, when Rav shternbuch's car was mobbed by aravim, he called Israeli police. How strAnge? Are you closer to the secular Israeli or to Palestinian Muslims?

  134. The "Shmook" libel is something started in the past few years against both the CC and Rav Kook. It was discussed on this blog previously, but it was disseminated by that notorious "rabbi" on Frumteens. This is how a libel or big lie spreads. Ironic that the Chofetz Chaim wrote a book on loshon hara. It comes as no surprise, since you and your ilk are taking other [blood] libel material from the anti-semites such as the "protocols of the elders of Zion".

  135. The battle with Haskalah is fairly recent (the last 200 years)the other controversies and the times you mention wont have any bearing at all on today's battle;e or rather WAR that we have been waging against any form of Haskalah ,Yeveskeies ,Yiddisists Zionists and all their splinter groups etc.
    The Shmad continues and we must be alert and on watch.

  136. Rav Reuvain Grozovsky in Bayos Hazman :

    "Men darf zitzen mit zei vee men zitzed by dee daichen"
    If we sit with the Zionists we must sit with them like we are sitting with Hitler and Eichmann!

  137. it not about respect its about gaining understanding who they realy are.

  138. Rav Hutner moved ideologically and in real terms far from rabbi kook even though he was related by marriage! Fact

    Actually Rabbi Kook was hurt by this according to family reports of this story .

  139. You are mistaken, there were secular enlightened Jews in the time of the rambam too.

  140. Rav Kook was niftar in 1935, when rav hutner was still a young man. Perhaps you mean his son, rav Tzvi Yehuda Kook ztl. But they still were in touch. In fact, rav Hutner was even friends with Rav Goren , and I have seen a picture of them together which appears to be when Rav Shlomo Goren was chief rabbi. Also, I didn't see rav Hutner sign on any of the attacks against R' goren.

    There is a story that once R' Tzvi yehuda Kook was visiting Rav Hutner, and by strange chance, so was the leader of the Neturei karta sitting outside his door also waiting.
    Rav Hutner himself once planned to start a yeshiva-university program, together with Torah Vodass' Rav Mendelowitz ztl. Rav Aharon kotler ztl was opposed to this. So you see Rav Hutner was a very broad minded intellectual, and had his fingers in many pies so to speak, ideologically of course. Nevertheless, he erred in his shmues about the Shoah.

  141. Have you seen the text of the letter that Rav Hutner wrote to R' Tzvi Yehuda 40 years after Rav Kook died?

  142. He was not see above Rabbi Moshe Blaus' letter

  143. Chazon Ish didnt think so, he met BG, and sat with him.

  144. we know who NK are, they are friends with David duke, mahmud Ahmadinejad, Yasser Arafat etc.

  145. Berel, even satmar and eidah are sick of your lot


  147. Yair Hoffman is a left-wing Hareidi. (Note that is very different than being left-wing Orthodox.) Hoffman, here, misrepresents what Rav Shapiro shlit"a wrote in his book as well as misrepresents what the vast majority of Gedolei Yisroel zt'l states and positions they took.

  148. Other maskilim have already detailed their objections.

  149. Rav amram blau story

  150. Right wing hareidi love nazis, sit with them and deny the holocaust.

  151. Rav Miller is an Internationally accepted true Godol
    His tapes are worldwide demand. all communities

    What this about Collaborator?

  152. They went there to make a point
    To announce that the Jews are not represented by the Not Kosher Leaders of the Zionist State Of Israel

    To Show Hachnah Humbleness to the nations as required during Gallus ..

  153. Ever see what he told BG?
    He told him you Zionists are nothing worthless BG went out astounded and humbled !

  154. the letter does not convey such huge respect rather if read between the lines a need to maintain the peace to gain our objectives

  155. No, he said that Torah study has priority over army service, for the Torah students. BG asked him what about the mitzvah of fighting wars of self defence and he answered that Torah will protect. He didn't say there is no need for an army. at the time there were a few hundred yeshiva students.

  156. ridiculous claim. Weizzman was the "President" of the Yishuv, ie he became president of the new state. He was professor of Chemistry in Manchester University before that.

    Where in the Torah does it say that someone secular cannot make a hesped?

  157. If by maskilim you mean people with seichel, I agree 100%.

  158. They are not chassidim of anyone, again you make false statements.
    Violent protests are dangerous, I thought these frum boys were so gentle and study torah all day? Rav shach said that those who don't study Torah should go to the army. These follwoers of Reb Shmuel are on the streets all day, have given up the yeshiva life. Even in Ponovezh, they are having violent fighst between each other.

  159. Even the Yeshiva world say you are meshugaim:

  160. No, they went there to support the reshaim who deny the Holocaust. They also denied 6 million were killed and claimed only 1 million.
    The peopel ho deny the Holocaust do so because they want to try killing millions of Jews again. NK are helping them and are therefore rodefim.
    the gadol HaDor Rav Henkin ztl originally opposed Zionism, but said after teh state was formed, now it is assur to oppose it and doing so makes you a rodef - he was attacking the rebbe of Satmar.

  161. Apikorsim meeting with Iran murderers, backing hezbollah and hamas.

  162. Rav Miller was not really a Gadol he just gave shiurim about his extreme ideas , like Yosef Mizrachi does today. He spoke good english because he studied at YU, so the hareidim made a big deal about him. He collaborated in translating some the satmar books. As far as i know he didnt write any scholarly or halachic seforim, just his lectures about how everyone should be killed and how evil the secular world is.

  163. You are reading challenged.

    First of all, the letter contradicts your claim, that the Rebbe said that he has "Kfirah" in his writings, and that Rav Kook admitted it.
    Nothing of the sort!

    Second, you disingenuously ignored the link to the article which delineates the tremendous respect that the Gerrer Rebbe exhibited for Rav Kook. That's pretty strange, for someone you claim was called a "kofer" by the Rebbe,
    The truth might hurt, but read the article anyway.

  164. BTW, Rav Shmuel Salant was not opposed to Zionists, it was largely Rav DIskin, and this was all about money.
    When Rav Pines came to israel, he had money from Rothschild for a specific purpose, eg religious schools and agriculture. Ravb Diskin wanted that money for himself, but Pines refused. R' Diskin put a herem on R' Pines, but rav Salant refused to and said the herem is not valid. he supported Pines. You cannot steal from one Tzedaka fo another and you cannot steal to give to tzedaka, Rav Diskin made a serious halachic error there. So yes, you make the excuse he was anti-zionist, but it's all about the money, honey.

  165. He also said some nice things about apples.

  166. Moe, the world outside satmar does exist. FYI, Rav herzog was also a mentor to Rav elyashiv. So for first half of his life he was close to the tzionim. His greatness began in that world.

  167. Did it break you heart to append the word "Rabbi" to Rav Kook's name?

  168. that was before the iPhone 😁 🍏

  169. Now that you don't have a De haan to teach you politics, you go to Iran and support their genocide/shmad plans


  171. Once again, you are bananas.

  172. someone who spends his time looking for hidden freemasonry signs, conspiracies and meaning in common body language must be a real batlan.

  173. This is such lashon hara. How dare you.

  174. I don't always believe yated, but it is more reliable at least in reporting stories than 2 random people who comment here

  175. They are not apikorsim and they don't back Hezbollah and hamas. They are making a peace offering as Yaakov did with Esav.

  176. They are not in the streets all day. They are studious but believe they have no choice but to take this action. Try something other than character assassination.

  177. You really are disrespectful. The keyboard should be taken away from you. You are heading straight to hell.

  178. If I want reliable psak, I have whom to rely on - Rav Elyashiv is more reliable than NK

    And so on. The Chazon Ish said to vote in Israeli elections, but Satmar opposed - again I rely on the CI.

    I rely on Rav Henkin, Rav Feinstein, who supported the State of Israel.

  179. There might have been some supernatural salvations of individuals but the war as a whole was not a miracle. Instead of mouthing off in ignorance, let's defer to expert opinion:

    “The armies were extremely ill-matched. Israelis, through their history, have tended to see themselves as the “weaker side,” their army smaller and less well armed than their Arab enemies. The truth in 1967, as at other times, was different.” Benny Morris, Righteous Victims, p. 311. Benny Morris is one of Israel’s most prominent historians

    “American intelligence accurately predicted that Israel would defeat any possible Arab coalition within a few days, perhaps a week….” p. 310

    “The Arab armies were mostly professional forces, relatively poorly trained, and not properly mechanized. The Egyptian army suffered from a basic weakness owing to the politicization of its command echelons, which resulted in the appointment of incompetent and inexperienced senior commanders, and structural weaknesses that were to prove fatal in wartime.” p. 312

    “The Six-Day War was in all essentials, a clockwork war carried out by the IDF against three relatively passive, ineffective Arab Armies….Throughout, the initiative lay with the IDF; occasionally the Arabs ‘responded’ to an Israeli move; most often they served as rather bewildered, sluggish, punching bags.” p. 313

  180. The Gaon
    4. The famed R. Shlomo Kluger explains that if the gentiles don’t observe their oath, we are exempt from ours. Nobody who learned about the Holocaust can take the gentile’s oath seriously, as if they didn’t “oppress us too much”, so we clearly are no longer obligated by our oath, and it is no longer “before its time”.

  181. The dispute was about money, it's published. Not lh.

  182. They support Hamas against Israel. They support the same goals as them, and go to their demonstrations.

  183. No, I am respectful of Rav Miller because he showed kavod to R.AY Kook. His views on science are not scientific correct. Who says you go to hell for correcting someone's scientific errors?

  184. The idea of the holocaust as a chesed is absurd. If I give you Chanukah gelt, it's a chesed. If you get shot with a hunting rifle, it's not exactly a chesed.
    In any case majority of the victims were frum, and majority of reform and secular escaped. Read about Leo baeck, who saved his reform community. It was a chesed.

  185. Sitting on the street to stop cars, stealing from people's livelihoods, endangering lives (doctors not reaching hospitals etc. ) this is not the mussar of talmidei chachamim.

  186. ( and he comes from a Mizrach background He only asks that as a question !
    Chas visholom to pasken like that

    The Goyem have a 1 oath not to cause too much pain

    But we still have a shvuah 2 not be Oileh Bachomah!!
    Regardless of that unresolved questionable possibility of linkage??

    We any way cannot be 'Misgareh Biouimois' today that is a Separate

    separate Issur that according all is separate .

    Anyway a rule in All Issurari torah Midioraysah Safek Lichumrah !!!

    Besides also Dangerous because of the Kilalah/CURSE

    "Ani Matir Es Bsarchem liatalos Hasadeh"!!!

    Where is the proof that the fact that the goyim gave us so much pain , has anything to do linked with our totally separate shvuah that WE shouldn't go up to the Wall ?, its only a question / Query: Maybe efsher! Thats not a psak !! No way

    Even rabbi Koook Himself mentions/agrees the Rule of Sholosh shvouois , Everyone agrees that Hasem Swore and gave us the 3 oaths not to take the land without Sanhedrin and Novie!!

    take a look at Rabbi Dov Berkowits he has a ton of info on the Sholosh Voguish. and how it is very valid today and never went away according to the vast majority of Poskim amitiyim ... a link somewhere !

  187. It's easy to be clever afterwards. At the time, there was no guarantee they would win. In any case the Torah says we will win wars 1 against 10, or thousands.

  188. 1) you didn't answer my question about oaths?

    2) Rav Kluger is a major gadol from 200 years ago.

  189. There was Noone greater then Rav Diskind
    THe Bais Halevei's hand would shake when he was writing a letter to him !
    He stood up every time he mentioned his name well known Facts

  190. The satmer rebbe said the same at that time!

  191. If I could upvote this multiple times, I would.

  192. If you say that about every Gadol, I might agree. If you are claiming there was noone greater than Rav Diskin, it is a strange position to take. Rav Salant was older and probably greater. In any case, the dispute was about Chalukah money. Also Rav Pines opened schools for poor Jewish children to stop them from being taken under shmad by the Christian missionaries (there were starving children and orphans. So some "nice" people from the old yishuv started accusing rav Pines of missionizing the children, ie converting them to christianity. in any case, Rav salant did not accept the herem of Rav Diskin, and he annulled it. And furthermore, money can bribe even the greatest Tzadikim.

  193. He also forbade going to the Kotel or any of the liberated territory of the 6 day war. Pity you cannot visit.

  194. The oaths are not d'oraysa, and we are not bound by the oaths taken 2000 years ago. Are we subject to an oath of nezirus if someone took it 2000 years ago?

    the oaths contradict the torah which says we should own Eretz Yisroel. You cannot make an oath not to fulfill the Torah. that is a shavua shava, and that is why the oaths are not in the SA or the MT or the Rif etc.
    Safek D'oraita l'chumra - so it is D'oraisa to conquere E'Y hakodesh, so we should take it lechumra.
    the Vilna Gaon , who was much greater than anyone after him, said the oath of the "wall" applies only to the building to the Beit Hamikdash. Even the Lubavitcher Rebbe could not build it.

  195. Rav Millers Was A true Adam Godol

    May I be Zoche to see his in The oilam Hemess
    The teacher of today's Dor directly and indirectly.


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