Thursday, December 30, 2021

Beis Din behaved properly?

 שמואל אליהו  quoted a שואל ומשיב but I saw someone wrote that he says בפירוש  the heter is only to stop damage not punish and not embarrass, which is the opposite of what they were doing

from what I understand, the fact Walder stepped down from all his jobs and his books were banned was enough to stop further cases until a פסק was given. and שמואל אליהו was basically blackmailing him to come to his בית דין and until then he would release recordings and information to embarrass him, and that caused the suicide not the accusations or the ban itself.


  1. There's a statement in the Talmud which says if they behave improperly then we behave improperly with them. Can you explain what that means please?

  2. I know what your response will be to my following comment, but I will make it anyway. I am making a future projection, you will quip sarcastic calling me a "Prophet "

    Around 100 years ago, another writer, very successful and part of the chareidi establishment was also shot dead. He had 2 fatal flaws _ 1) he was a raving Gay menuval, and 2) he was anti Zionist. When berel was posting, he said de haan is buried in chelkas rabbonim.
    For hareidim, he is a hero, Saint and martyr. Mishkav zachor is hidden in the closet.

    What is happening today is the creation of a new de haan. In time, he will be another such tzaddik, whilst rav Eliyahu will be vilified.
    Already it is being called murder. In fact it was suicide.
    His crimes are also being downplayed. History repeats itself. It was not Marx who came up with that, but Koheleth _ ein chadash tachat hashamayim.

  3. If you think he would have stopped his bad behaviour, that is not something that can be said with any certainty.
    The Court of Eliyahu gathered evidence to take to the police. If you go to the police empty handed, they will send you back home.
    Also, blackmail, murder , these are nonsense perversions, protecting the abuser. Halacha says you can kill the pursuer, even safek pursuer.
    Also, you believe everything that walder said, is that wilful ignorance?

  4. It is not a blanket heter for mob rule or disregarding halacha against someone you don't like
    Though it is understood that way by feminist rabbais and antiTorah critics

  5. Wonderful - but I have a serious question regarding how we understand statemtns in the Talmud, or midrash. Can their interpretation change with time, eg in new situations?
    The most relevant example that comes to mind is "Chadash assur min haTorah". This is in the context of new Wheat and the time it is harvested, to the time it is allowed to be consumed.
    The Chatam sofer brought a new dimenstion, or used it as a motto , regarding the early reformers who wished to change accepted halacha and practice.

    Perhaps the scope of change and application matters - he used it primarily as a motto, although some people took it to be halacha - eg prohibiting anything new in shul, even chairs.

  6. It was a pun- can't develop a rule from it

  7. yes, as i said it was a motto or pun. But it became force of either weak halacha or strong minhag , and those Hungarians mutated over several generations, not changing anything at all.


    English rendition of rav Eliyahu

    I will try to find Hebrew version with sources

  9. Hebrew sources rav Eliyahu

    See also rav Sariel Rosenberg shlita, head of rwv karelitz BD and rav silman, shlita who also ruled against the adulterer menuval mr walder.

  10. Actually there's apparently a recorded statement of CW threatening to commit suicide if the police charged him and right after the police charged him, guess what happened?
    Sheesh, blame the rape victim much?
    Here's what you have to consider - if a Chareidi boy shows up in yeshiva wearing a knitted kippah and a blue shirt, he gets ostracized. If he gets accused of molesting young girls by the outside press, he gets promoted to tzadik. That's the community you're now defending.

  11. שמואל אליהו quoted a שואל ומשי WHERE?

  12. He says simon 185
    As well as Remah 28:15

  13. And he teaches the married woman he was oiver biah with to lie, lie, lie. He says deny everything _ if there's a photo of them together, say it's photoshopped. This is a rasha aroom. Someone who knows halacha, and how to lie to rabbis, batei don. He's been doing this all his life and getting away with it. Actually, he has haskomo from gedolim on his books.
    He has the worst qualities of the worst secular politicians / criminals.
    Because he was a chareidi poster boy, you think he's a tzaddik. He is like gafni, or worse he is worse than tropper - who did teshuva, who was in the end honest and humble.

  14. So you dispute that there is such a tape, or my comparisons with others?


please use either your real name or a pseudonym.