The heter has no halachic significance at this point. Rav Greenblatt does not create reality by his psak. If he paskened that the dead were alive or that we were all healthy wealthy and wise - it would have the same significance. His psak is universally declared to have been a mistake. Whether Rav Greenblatt or Rav Kaminetsky acknowledges this reality is a psychological issue rather than a halachic issue. Tamar is committing adultery and any children she has from this relationship are mamzerim.
Each day that goes by without the acknowledgement by Rav Greenblatt and Rav Kaminetsky that the heter is a mistake - causes additional destruction to their well earned reputations and to the emunas chachomim of their followers. The fact that the emperor mistakenly believes he has clothes - doesn't make it so and makes him the subject of ridicule and contempt.
Miriam Webster. definesrescind
- 3 : to make void (as an act) by action of the enacting authority or a superior authority :
Details?
ReplyDeleteUh?
ReplyDeleterescinded? neither R Nota or R Shmuels signature is on this
this letter of Rabbonim is not rescinding the heter, they are saying it was never valid.
ReplyDeleteIn order for it to be rescinded, it needs to be done by those who wrote it.
Ummm, were these the mattirim?
ReplyDeleteRescinded means that the original issuers retract their claim.
Obviously it is a huge blow to the false hetter, but it doesn't seem to be "rescinded".
Am I missing something?
Now this is what you call Sod H' LiYereiov. He forsaw the Kilkul beforehand and stopped it from the getgo. Kamo tsodku divrei chachomim. *Seems* so far, it is RNG rescinded solo.
ReplyDeleteRescinded would have to be by those who issued it, who do not seem to be among the signatories.
ReplyDeleteWhile it's refreshing to see the addition of significant new names, I wouldn't use the word "rescinded", unless those behind the alleged "heter" publicly repudiate it.
ReplyDeleteI think that the common definition of "rescind" is to take something back. That will only occur when the Kaminetskys. As of yet, all I see is that a number of important American Roshei Yeshiva have publicly come out against the heter. That is not the same as the heter being rescinded.
ReplyDeleteit means to cancel - either by the one who issued it or by a higher authority
ReplyDeleteThis letter doesn't prove that the heter was rescinded but its just one more letter against Kaminetzkys heter
ReplyDeleteSo what you are saying is that the development is that more Roshei Yeshiva (particularly RAS and RMK) are coming out against it but nothing from the matirim RSK, RNG and Rabbi Fuerst, who are the only people TE and her significant other will listen to
ReplyDeleteThere appears to be some sort of watermark or something under the signatures. If you look at the image closely you will notice the signatures appear to have a black background whereas the printed names appear to have white background,
ReplyDeleteWhy is it any more "resinded" now than it was yesterday? There are just a few more gedolim on the no hetter side, but the mattirim are still being mattir (presumably).
ReplyDeleteThat might be one of the official definitions, but, as you can clearly see, it is not the common understanding of the meaning. Either way, this is not much of a chiddush qualitatively, as quite a number of us were already against the heter. The Roshei Yeshiva are supposed to be the ones leading the charge. Not waking up a month later. And people wonder why some say that we have no leadership. . .
ReplyDeleteNo matter how many experts nullify this thing,nothing really changes as long as all its practical results are not reversed and the original signatories have not agree to rescind.
ReplyDeleteLechol man deboie lemeida
ReplyDeleteSince RNG already requested RSK to inform TE/F to separate, whereby she asked whether it is AL PI DIN to do so, therefore this letter is in REPLY to TE/F! The answer is "AL PI DIN" she must separate as rescinded by the Ba'al HaHeter and already notified. *Rescinded* by RNG is in order as quoted. vek'al
Considering that the principals of the alleged "heter" haven't publicly acknowledged their retraction, it's possible that they consider themselves as the higher authority.
ReplyDeleteCan you post the original document? If you look at the bottom half containing the signatures at an angle you can see that they were each individually copy/pasted. Maybe these rabbonim were asked prior but there is something off with the document that makes me wonder about its legitimacy.
ReplyDeletetalk about clickbait...
ReplyDeletethis is a hatchet job anybody could have copy and pasted. the important names are missing. have you gotten this verified?
ReplyDeleteThen the Heter was already rescinded a long time ago.
ReplyDeleteWhile technically the use of the word "rescind" is valid, wouldn't it be more fitting to say:
ReplyDeleteKaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter has been annulled!
Can we get a copy of the letter of that rav rescinding his p'sak in 2003?
ReplyDeleteSo, what if the architects of the heter view themselves as the higher authority?
ReplyDeleteYou don't cease to amaze me - what is with all this dreikupping? 'Rescind', whether you are willing to be straight up and conform to "plain" English, or are super fancy and will dig however far down you need to just to be "right", i.e., "Miriam's" (sic) 3rd definition, intends something that has been voided. That's right, voided - underlined, bold, underscored. You know - hopefully, although I'm not super optimistic - that this letter does nothing to do that, but I guess like the tabloids you'll do anything to sensationalize.
ReplyDeleteI don't see this type of tactic as furthering the logic of your case. But, you be you - in addition, go ahead and spam this comment: others don't have to see it, but you should be aware that there are readers of this blog who would hope to see you set, and keep to, a higher and tighter standard of logic, in particular, since you have taken it upon yourself to parse, nitpick and dicker over other persons words and actions.
"... or by a superior authority."
ReplyDeletee.g. an employer rescinding the transaction of an employee. What makes one Rosh Yeshiva superior than the next? As an aside, although not so tangential, I find it rather unfortunate and pathetic that until very recent and present-day the role (and authority) of a RY/mashgiach/mashpia etc. has become tantamount to the function of dayan/posek.
“Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter has been rescinded!” Yes. This is definitely an annulment and cancellation of the Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter. The signature rabbis are more in number and in wisdom than the original beit din ruling of the Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter.
ReplyDeleteThe parallel to my case with Susan is that I seek NY Kings County Supreme Court judges’ written statements rescinded. Judge Pesce wrote to the late Judge Kaye 1996: “I have discussed the matter with Mr. Rothbart, as well as justice Rigler. According to him, he told you that your two children in Israel could be considered illegitimate if brought here because New York did not recognize your Israeli divorce.” Judge Pesce, who still works at the Kings County Supreme Court, could annul, cancel, and apologize what he said. Fine. Absent that, I need an equal or higher court to annul and cancel acts of judges of Kings County Supreme Court. Of course, Susan could annul, cancel and apologize for her lies.
What makes this announcement different to all the previous ones
ReplyDeleteThe irony here is staggering. You're all over RNG for not performing due diligence and confirming the psychiatric reports himself, then you post this obvious forgery and perform a victory dance! You can clearly see the cutting and pasting that went on and the creator of this amateur fake letter even cut off a portion of R' AM Schechter's signature. Did you make even the slightest attempt to verify this or did you just run with it since it supports your compulsive crusade? Granted, there are plenty of Gedolim who have come out openly against this heter, but I don't see any of them spending their days and night spewing ad hominem attacks against the Kamenetsky's or others?
ReplyDeleteWhere was R' Sternbuch last week when R' Belsky זצ"ל was brought to the streets of ירושלים for his כבוד אחרון not 48 hours after your proclamation that he was in נידוי? Shouldn't he have been there or at least sent one of his lackeys to place a stone on the מיטה as the גמרא commands for someone who is מת בנידויו? You've gone rogue and hide behind claims of moral superiority under the laughable banner of ״דעת תורה״ but this post really is the final nail in the coffin of your credibility.
Why don't you just follow in the footsteps of Failed Messiah and close down this blog and find something productive to spend your time on? When you get to the כסא הכבוד and the יד משה is on one side of the scale and this blog on the other, where do you think you'll wind up? ויצאו וראו בפגרי האנשים הפושעים בי כי תודעתם לא תמות ואשם לא תכבה
The silly debate over the English translation of rescind is missing the big picture of the meaning of this letter.
ReplyDeleteNamely that six, additional, Gedolei Roshei Yeshivos from America have publicly signed against the remarriage and said she's an eishes ish.
Take a deep breath .what exactly is irritating you seems your life is tough but how exactly do you loosen up by just venting on some trivial matter ?
ReplyDeleteStop foaming at the mouth. I verified that the letter is genuine.
ReplyDeleteyes
ReplyDeletedocument is genuine.
ReplyDeletedocument is genuine
ReplyDeleteBetter - the annulment has been annulled.
ReplyDeleteIs this the positive result (albeit, not entirely) that culminated from the meeting in Rav Aharon Schechter's home? If this is the result, then what is missing?
ReplyDeleteThey will sign on by next week
ReplyDeleteYou speak for yourself, or the minority (from the minority itself) here.
ReplyDeleteYour comment reminds me of the posuk in Mishai: "Ozvai Torah yehallelu roshoh v'Shomrei Torah yisguri bom".
I once heard in the name of Rav Elya zt"l: that Rav Shach zt"l was the Pinchas of our dor and his actions are the cause of "vayechaper al B'nai Yisroel" and this who fight Rav Shach zt"l cause the opposite of vayechaper....another thing I am reminded of from reading this comment...
"Shouldn't he (R' Sternbuch) have been there or at least sent one of his lackeys". You've got it backwards. R. Shternbuch is the lackey. He swallows every turd produced by the author of this blog.That's why - unfortunately - no one in the Yeshivishe world respects him. Also, rumor has it that "Failed Messiah" closed down because it merged with "Daas Torah". The big question: who hates the Torah more......
ReplyDeleteLetter doesn't enlarge when clicking like other documents on this blog, and I can't read. Can you check this or post larger version? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteYou wont believe it but I agree with you about the letter being genuine! But since you know that this letter has been around for a while does it bother you the timing of the release?
ReplyDeleteWhich one of the assara yuchsin is "bnei ervas aishes ish" I naïvely thought it was only 10 ?
ReplyDeleteThis is a necessary psychological step we all have to take when being confronted by this bizarre scandal . First comes a raging denial no this can't be true , then comes a period of subdued contemplation when slowly ones previous assumptions and outlook on life starts crumbling and then comes the realization and the anger of being fooled all along you're on the right track you'll get there we understand you
ReplyDeleteThis one, she asked for it. After being informed the message sent to her directly of R' NG's retrieval or sescinding of Heter, she still yet wanted to know whether it is so Al PI DIN. She asked for it, and she got it. BTW, in your opinion, do you really think that she thunk up this question? Is she aware of any options in these Betiv Gittin?
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is WOW!
ReplyDeleteMy faith is being restored slowly but surely. This is not the first time we've seen very prominent rabbonim standing up for the truth in the face of immense pressure but each time it happens, it's a kiddush hashem of the highest order.
Kol Hakovod to Rabbi Eidenson for sticking to his guns and having the conviction to take on the mobsters.
the only copy I have received - from multiple sources - is a 71k image which doesn't have enough pixels for enlargement. If someone has a better version please send it to me for posting
ReplyDeleteSuppose that these signatures of these Rabonim from wherever they reside have been faxed in to one central place stating the message of the above, to be gathered all on ONE page as a Poster, does that make it any less genuine? Indeed, if you look at the date above, it tallies with the general month date only, since it has been gathered likely over several days. This is not a federal case, and all kol kore's that have a whole host of signatures, doesn't necessarily mean that all those signed have been gathered to one place at the same time on one particular Date. vehadovor poshut.
ReplyDeleteIt has been posted here that RNG claimed credit for this HETER. It is also posted now that RNG sent a message with RSK to order TAMAR to *separate*. What would you like to call that if not CHOZER on his previous PSAK???
ReplyDelete...*either by the one who issued it *
ReplyDeleteTofas loshon Rishon!
That's not good enough, it has to inform and *order* the person of interest as well.
ReplyDeleteYes, read Lechol man deboie lemeida.
ReplyDeleteIt's right there in the Mishna. ממזרי = "Bnei ervas aishes ish".
ReplyDeleteעשרה יוחסין עלו מבבל, כהני, לויי, ישראלי, חללי, גרי, וחרורי, ממזרי, נתיני, שתוקי, ואסופי.
As far as I know Rabbi Feurst only responded to Shalom Kaminetsky as a hypothetical heter. The only one who actually granted the "heter" and acted upon it (by performing her adulterous bigamy ceremony) was Rabbi Greenblatt. As I have said before, I believe his actions were based upon naive, misplaced trust of the grandson of Reb Yaakov Kaminetzky, zt'l.
ReplyDeletemamzer bela"az
ReplyDeleteThe timing is perfect. It is in direct response of her question if it is AL PI DIN SO that she must separate according to RNG's message to her. If that's not rescinding, i don't know what is. This letter is NOT just more of the same as *Gam Ani Mitstaref*. vehaven. NNTR
ReplyDeleteOk. If someone can transcribe in Hebrew would appreciate. Can't read text or make out signatures.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how you slice iy, for all practical purposes, the HETER is by now officially OVER. RNG - hapeh shehitir, is by now the peh *shoisser*. period!
ReplyDeleteWhy is this letter any different then any other letter that was put out before? the only Posek on it is R Miller the others are Roshei Yeshiva (not belittleing them in anyway). If you said when R' Feivel wrote his letter that the heter was rescinded (whatever that word means in this case) ok the letter was a chiddush and he is a posek. R miller has signed more letters then anyone here and is saying the same thing he said all along so there is nothing new in the essence of the letter. My question was to the Moderator since he is in the know if it bothered him the timing of the letter since it has been around for almost 3 weeks.
ReplyDelete"Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter has been rescinded!" Why do you call this "rescinded" ? The Heter has not been rescinded in any way, shape or form. This is BH a number of Gedoilim writing a Letter against the Heter and nothing more.
ReplyDeleteUntil Rabbi Greenblatt who was the ultimate Poisek on this matter and Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky are choizer and Tamar is separated from her new Husband, there is no "rescinding" of the Heter.
Yes. kindly help yourself:
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/01/rav-yitzchok-scheiner-retracting-psak.html
I was merely pointing out that if Webster's definition of "annulment by a higher authority" is being followed, then Rav Moshe Sternbuch etc. have already "rescinded" the Heter - unless somebody thinks that R' Shlomo Miller and the Moetzes Rabbanim are the only ones who are greater than RNG. All very strange..
ReplyDeleteSo then where and when will it be/is being implicated l'ma'aseh?
ReplyDeleteB'sho'oh tovoh, Ken yehi ratzon!
ReplyDeleteDo you have that biksav or mipi hashmuah?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the next step?
ReplyDeleteWhat is clear is that (whether or not Reb Nota Greenblatt makes a formal statement acknowledging his error) the "marriage" between Tamar Epstein & Adam Fleischer is forbidden al pi din. They must separate, period.
As far as the Kaminetzsky are concerned, their reputation has been sullied to such a degree by their actions I am not sure what they can do to redeem it. Rav Shmuel K. must be at least as contrite as Rabbi Mordechai Willig was when he erred in the Din Torah between Eli Hiller & the pervert Baruch Lanner.
On what basis do you assert that this letter is weeks old?
ReplyDeleteHere's a pdf version:
ReplyDeletehttp://forum.otzar.org/forums/download/file.php?id=31243
And, from your moniker alone, I would have thought you're a sharfer, but your comment gave you away: it's just a double entendre, and in fact you're not a sharfer.
ReplyDeleteGive us the rules of the game with respect to what you and the blogmaster feel are the substantive issues so on a going forward basis those of us who prefer exactitude won't focus on trivialities and foam from the mouth while venting.
Btw, thoughtfulness not just deep breathing helps with the loosening. Try it on for size - you'll be surprised.
What for? OP obviously isn't. "The one who issued it", RSK, did not rescind anything. Therefore, OP must have intended to be tofes lashon achron.
ReplyDeleteI guess aishes ish is not as stark as mamzer, they could of written something delicate like niseis leasurah lah....
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the K camp put a lot of pressure and disinformation out before this letter was publicized, they sort of indicated that they might be willing to compromise in some way and therefore some fell for the bait and didn't sign
ReplyDeleteWho is the rabbi miller who signed, is he the son ofbrav avigdor miller
ReplyDeletePrint, scan, and post.
ReplyDeleteWhy is this bigger news than all the other rabbonim who have denounced this?
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, who said anything so ridiculous was rescinded? When somebody creates a Halacha that nobody heard of and lies and tricks turning a yesoma into an adulteress and perhaps a child to be a mamzer, does that mean that they said something that impacts upon Halacha and how people should behave? Do we have to rescind something that smells and stinks and everybody knows it? I've been fighting those people for years. It is much more than the Philly people. It is a country where people don't have the training to deal with complex Gittin questions. If anybody wants sources delivered the old fashioned way, look at my blog at torahhalacha.blogspot.com .
ReplyDeleteמהיכי תיתי
ReplyDeleteIt ain't over till it's over!
ReplyDeleteNothing has been "rescinded" but the battle has only got more fierce with Rav Aron Schechter finally saying what Rav Feivel Cohen said originally with more Halachic authority because Rav Feivel Cohen is a posek while Rav Aron Schechter is not.
There are only two ways that the "Heter" can be officially "rescind" and that is if (a) Rabbis Kaminetsly - Greenblatt -- Fuerst openly recant and rescind theior own rulings and positions in writing and take back the Heter they engineered, gave and still support, or if (b) as Rav Sherman says in his recent letter a properly constituted Bais Din convenes to deal with the matter and pass judgement and issues an official Halachic ruling as a sitting Bais Din HaGdol on this matter.
Otherwise what we have at this point is the pro-Heter people aligned on one side with their own Roshei Yeshiva led by Rav Kaminetsky and Rav Brudny (Mir Brooklyn) and Rabbi Bender (Darchei Far Rockaway) etc with all the rabbis who signed on the long letter to support him and Poskim led by Rabbis Greenblatt (Memphis) and Fuerst (Chicago) and their supporters -- and on the other side are those in opposition with their Poskim Rav Shetrnbuch (Israel) Rav Feivel Cohen (America) and various Roshei Yeshiva such as Rav Scheiner (Israel) and now Rav Aron Schechter (Brooklyn) who is most significantly now evidently joined by Rabbi Malkiel Kotler which is the REAL surprise of this letter since Rav Aron Schechter's position has long been known that he has oppose such Heterim for a long time.
The fascinating and maddening thing is that BOTH sides are "relying" on Rav Elyashiv ZT"L, the pro-Heter side is relying on the fact that Rav Elyashiv is not around to make his view known in this case so they can claim he who knows what he would have said since he is not alive to assert himself, while the side opposing claims that because Rav Elyashiv opposed the Heter in the past in the prior famous Shatner case even though the news now is that Rabbis Fuerst and Greenblatt have been annulling Jewish marriages by the dozens over the years -- which may be the real issue here.
Noticably absent and silent is the voice and signature of Rav DOVID Feinstein anywhere who as the son and heir of Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT"L who is the source of the modern-day Halachic authority for the Heter, and has said NOTHING making the two sides even more divided, while Rabbi REUVEN Feinstein did agree with the Baltimore Bais Din but in a very convoluted way as if to wave a flag of neutrality as well, that he, meaning the Feinsteins are in agreement with something the Baltimore Bais Din said that they "apologize" to Aron Friedman, but still not making it clear what his (R. REUVEN's) big brother Rav Dovid Feinstein says and holds and still refuses to put anything in WRITING, and Rav Dovid Kohen has also not spoken out against the Heter and it seems he and others are still afraid of the big money men who brought about this disaster and war between the rabbis in the first place.
So stay tuned, as they say, it's not over til the fat lady sings and so far she has not uttered anything!
I am sorry, but this is clearly fake. The names were cut and pasted--you can see this because none of the typed names start from the same point on the page. This is a pretty amateurish job, to say the least.
ReplyDeleteYaeh, yeah, maybe if you yell "mamzerim, mamzerim" loud enough and enough times the world will finally believe you!!
ReplyDeleteyes it is cut and paste - and Genuine
ReplyDeleteBarak, that doesn't help. That is just another letter just like this one which said that a Rav made a mistaken p'sak and was chozer. I just want to see the letter of chazara (real rescinding) from THAT rav
ReplyDeleteThis blog has been talking about it since the meeting at R A Shecters house about 3 weeks ago it wasn't a big secret.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the commercial break! Now back to reality...where people do not agree with each other and are fighting each other to the virtual death as it seems!
ReplyDeleteBecause it's not "bigger" news, the only real new item here is that R Malkiel Kotler who until now was publicly silent and hence it was interpreted as being pro-Kaminetsky, now signs on with Rav Aron Schechter who is known to hate this type of Heter with passion.
ReplyDeleteThe question now is, does R Malkiel Kotkler speak for everyone at BMG in opposing the Heter and aligning against the Kaminetskys and how come he only signed what about his three other co-equal BMG Roshei Yeshiva Rabbis Olshin, Neuman and Shustal -- what do they hold? They also have to speak up and sign on otherwise they are classed as neutral in this war of shadows and dagger thrusts.
This bitter Machlokes has now descended into hand to hand close combat and tough street brawling, a real bloody CIVIL WAR!!
No, he's your favorite Rabbi Miller from Toronto.
ReplyDeletePremature call, it took a long time to finish off Rasputin....
ReplyDeleteDon't hold your breath and it's not all about idealism either, this is raw war!!
ReplyDeleteThat's really what happened by Rav Aharon Schechter's home? Is that why Rav Daniel said that the meeting was not a total success?
ReplyDeleteAnd Kol hakovod to you for your honesty. ..even if it means coming around 180 degrees. ......
ReplyDeleteYes, but truly rescinded would de facto mean that the job is done and we can all pack our bags, which is not the case. ..
ReplyDeleteAccording to your concept of psak - we need to have Rav Greenblatt posken that there is peace in the world, no suffering and that Moshiach has come.
ReplyDeleteThe heter is not even a fig leaf anymore because it has been declared to never having been valid. It is agree that it is simply a mistake and has no halachic significance
The fat lady sang along time ago but you were too frum to listen
ReplyDeleteThe heter has no halachic significance at this point. Rav Greenblatt does not create reality by his psak. The psak is universally declared to have been a mistake. Whether Rav Greenblatt or Rav Kaminetsky acknowledge this reality is more of a psychological issue than a halachic issue. Tamar is committing adultery and any children she has from this relationship are mamzerim.
ReplyDeletePlenty speculation here...do you play the stock market?
ReplyDeleteRNG said he only gave one such heter before in all of his career. ....perhaps we should find out where that one went and R Fuerst's annulments, so the mess can be cleaned up totally....
Save the document, then open with Paint. The image can be enlarged with Paint.
ReplyDeleteMide deavidei leisgaliyey lo meshakre bei inshei. I am sure that there is someone here on the blog that can certify that RYBy retrieved, and this must have been a very public thing.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why you think it's בלשון עם זר. It's also ממזר בלשון קודש.
ReplyDeleteHe made RKS a shliach lehoilocho to direct her to separate. You might still want to argue that you want to see it bichsav, but this directive, she must follow and seems willing to comply. She still would like yet to know whether this order is AL PI DIN.
ReplyDeleteNot sure where RaP sees all this support for the hetter. I haven't seen anything in writing from anyone except for the letter from RNG and the love letter to RSK from his talmidim. That letter specifically did not address the hetter and people who signed were upset when a sentence was later added to indicate support for the psak. Rabbi Fuerst has not even acknowledged his participation from what I hear.
ReplyDeleteNeisse sefer venechzeh. If I am not mistaking, even TE believes it since no one says vayhi kimishlosh cahdoshim.
ReplyDeleteThey wanted to sanitize it, and avoid using the "M" word.
ReplyDeleteנשאת לאסורה לה would be misleading, as it could be misconstrued as נשאת לחייבי לאוין.
דו האקסט א טשייניק נאכאמאל. משוגע לדבר אחד.
ReplyDeleteDon't know what OP might stand for. I can accept that this order of RNG to separate, does not constitute *Rescinding* bimlo muven hamilo, but close enough. You can take this for sure as a TEMPORARY RESTRAINT ORDER. Once she does separate as has been requested by many Poskim, she will stand in front of a TRUE BD to evaluate the status of this Fiasco, and what the next step might be. We still have to wait and see, what the interpretation of this sensational Headline might hold!
ReplyDelete*************
February 03, 2016/ JNN
This is not the "MAJOR DEVELOPMENT" we reported last night. However, due to the release of the "Roshei Yeshiva" letter, other developments have been moved to the back burner for now.
We will continue to keep the public updated with each and every development BEZ"H.
If you read the letters of Gedoilei haPoskim that either contacted them or read miksovom reprimanding them, you can find it there. I am not a Notary Public, just a blogger mesiach lefi tumo. Veidach zil ugmor. BTW, all those sheimos hanirdofim is not called for. ty
ReplyDeleteAs soon as TE complies and stands in front of the BD that will fix up this mess.
ReplyDeleteNot so strange if you understand it as tofas loshon rishon. Why else would this particular letter be any more rescinding than any of the previous letters by the TRUE gedoilei haPoskim. If however, *rescind*ing refers to the message of RNG sent through RSK to separate, then it seems to be in context. vehadovor poshut
ReplyDeleteWhy do you have such a problem with Rabbi Miller? Did he rule against you in a din Torah?
ReplyDeleteYou seem agitated. Are you a supporter of the hetter? What's your beef with this blog? The blog owner is very happy to allow opposing views, so why don't you present one rather than just bickering with anonymous Yidden?
ReplyDeleteIf you read my response in this thread:
ReplyDeleteLechol man deboie lemeida
Since RNG already requested RSK to inform TE/F to separate, whereby she asked whether it is AL PI DIN to do so, therefore...
I choose to understand that the first definition of Miriam Webster is here in order. No more question of CHIDUSH. vehakol al mekomo yavo besholom. Don't know about the three weeks, since the date doesn't indicate the Day. As to the interpretation of why no Day, because the one memune to collect the signatures from all those people signed and present them all as one unit, happened over some lapsed time. That has nothing to do with fraud! Time will tell, ma shelo ya'asseh hesechel ya'asseh hazman, vezeh kol haTorah kula al regel achas.
It's a pretty big deal that R Malkiel signed a letter against RSK.
ReplyDeleteI think the image I use in regard to Young Israel Aish of Las Vegas applies to Tamar's "heter" as well.
ReplyDeleteBecause these rabbonim are Rav Shmuel's peers and associates as American Roshei Yeshivot.
ReplyDeleteHey my friend, was just kidding! It is a Mishna mefureshes and gave him an alibi to save face as to why he couldn't find it rofl in the list. Kindly forgive, ty
ReplyDeleteWonderful that he was chozer. We are still waiting on the Kaminetskys.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Eidensohn, I am sorry to be nitpicky once again, but who exactly is the higher authority? Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky is one of the z'kan roshei hayeshiva of America, and is also considered to be somewhat of a posek. He is older than everyone on that list, and he is the contemporary of the fathers of some of the signatories, including Rav Malkiel Kotler. Which of the names on this proclamation are higher authorities than RSK? Again, I mean not to be nitpicky, but my point is that this really shows not too much. The only thing that will change things in my opinion would be one of the following three things: 1. if the opposition in America becomes full-blown to the point that the Kaminetskys are ostracized and discluded from events such as the Agudah and Torah U'mesorah conventions. 2. The leaders in Israel come out with a decisive letter against the Kaminetskys. 3. The Kaminetskys themselves come out with a full rescinding of their previous actions.
ReplyDeleteIf it is indeed genuine, it was a grave mistake to cut and paste the signatures. How much longer would it have taken to get all seven on a single document? This will only fuel accusations of fraud.
ReplyDeleteThanks. Much, much more legible now.
ReplyDeleteNothing to forgive!
ReplyDeleteNow that I was finally able to read, thanks to PDF version someone linked below, there is nothing new here. As we've been through many times, letter is hanging hat on Reb Elyashiv who opposed any heter based on mekach taus. However, Reb Moshe disagrees.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is whether the husband had any pre-existing personality disorder, and whether he was stonewalling, due to long delay with no progress in Balt BD, as was understood by many rabbanim, all these years, or whether he had a legitimate tayna due to his child being taken from him, and was actually willing to go back to Balt BD during these long years where case was dormant. (Some have made the fantastical claim that all this time it was wife who refused to go to Balt BD, despite that it would have been in her benefit to try to obtain the get.)
So these are the only issues, and all the other stuff is noise. Nothing has changed here.
The one with the Minyan, remember. One with the weight of tenfold simpletons. Are taking any medicamentin for the zizua moach?
ReplyDeleteAt least you are equating the "heter" with Rasputin. Both were destructive.
ReplyDeleteCivil war in Lakewood. .....from this? I doubt it. ...
ReplyDeleteNot a phony fake, but genuine.
ReplyDeleteDon't understand you - tell me one מעלה of this letter over all the others?
ReplyDeleteWhenever the house RaPper sees Rav Ahron Schecter's involvement in a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g, he becomes like a bull seeing red. This has nothing to do with the heter. RaP himself wrote well against it recently.
ReplyDeleteNow I remember, thx ehud for reminding me, he takes such a low profile I keep on forgetting
ReplyDeleteTenfold simpletons just makes it 10 times worse
ReplyDeleteEhud I will be next weekend in Toronto, would love to meet
מיר זעהט אויס אז א אנדערען מוז האבען זיין מאמין אין יעדער צעטיל, איך א שטיקעל משוגעת
ReplyDeleteThe other letters were gam Ani Mitstaref, as more of the same and as reinforcement of the previous. This letter is in direct response of RNG sending a directive with RSK to SEPARATE NOW. That is definitely one step forward in the right direction. It was RNG that issued the HETER and officiated at her Wedding, and it is RNG that orders her to SEPARATE, and THAT has strong bearing as to say, my HETER is no more in EFFECT, or the Kidushin is not valid and must be re-evaluated and determine what's next. It seems that TE is willing to comply, on condition if this order of SEPARATION is AL PI DIN, and not just lechumra or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's where THIS letter steps in and IS different than ALL the other previous letters, telling/informing/ordering TE in no uncertain terms, YES, it is AL PI DIN to do so, since the HETER itself was fundamentally wrong and by mistake. This is my take on it, and yes, there is room for nitpicking, but then you remain with questions such as Mah Nishtana michtav haze mikol haleilos? Especially when this BREAKING NEWS came in as a sensational change utilizing the choice of *RESCINDED*, veod yodov netuyo of what the followup Bombshell will fill in that is yet not specified at this particular moment. This was only the introduction of the Breaking news, and more to come.
That is why I am tofas loshon rishon, and tried to explain it to the best of my ability, and anyone is free to interpret whichever way they might choose. Venizke venireh ma yihye chalomoisov. BBAmen
In Shif shul with a case of Miller's? With Grey hoodie, tcholent, diet cucumber salad, gazzan Kugel, 18th Av Kishke, papites from Moshiach, dag maluach michalomot beAspamya, what are we missing, mmm... some carlebach and all is set? Hey, R' MIller's is a Good man, you don't find such a dime a dozen. Please mr. gazzan, Derech Erets Plishtim.
ReplyDeleteאיך פארשטיי נישט דיין גיבעריש. רעד צום זאך!
ReplyDeleteThe K's, give them the benefit of doubt let us hope and say, chazoko al shliach sheosseh es shlichusso. If he so did already, we must leave some room for face saving as well. This is not an easy pill to swallow, mercy - my friend.
ReplyDeleteIt's been along time since anyone accused me of being "too frum" but I think I know what you mean.
ReplyDeleteI am trying to be as objective as possible and describe and explain what is going on out there without injecting my own views.
There are many worlds we live in, perhaps in the world of Pesak Halacha yous aw it right way especially once Rav Shternbuch made his position very clear. That may have been Rav Shternbuch who was making the fat lady sing. But as we can all see the asses of American English-speaking Yeshiva-leit or at least a huge part of that world, is not buying in to total downgrade of R Shmuel Kaminetsky and R Notta Greenblatt into the total "gornisht mit gornishts" you are trying to depict them as being.
Rabbi Kaminetsky is still hugely popular in the American yeshiva world and his Yeshiva in Philadelphia is still very much an in-place and has not been effected by the scandal because people are up to their necks in problems and the world is full of scandals so one more does not shift the tide in the American yeshiva world's public opinion who have bigger problems to worry about like getting a good Chinuch for their kids, paying the bills, paying the bills, and paying the bills, getting their kids married and just surviving with no time worry how the rabbis are fighting battles with each other.
That's just the perception, since not everyone reads blogs or cares what they say, the Oilem Goilem goes on no matter what, and so far they have not evicted Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky from his very high perch. So it would seem, just judge for yourself from these pics taken at the recent 2016 AJOP convention in Baltimore, with Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky with the founder of the hugely popular Kiruv sensation Shabbos Project, Chief Rabbi of South Africa Warren (Zev) Goldstein and others....
Don't you meet in the Carlbach shul on the Upper West Side?? Hey,we .need to get to the bottom of this, and I'm getting jealous, some cholent for me!.....
ReplyDeleteI think he likes the sound of his name to much
ReplyDeleteרציתי רק לדעת מי הוא זה הרב מיללער, לא שמעתי עליו עד היום, שמעתי על היארמער רב ממאנסי, יש להם איזהו קירבה משפחתית, או למילער שטיס מבארא פארק, כאמור אני נבוך מאוד בעניניו
ReplyDeleteMichelob said: "Not sure where RaP sees all this support for the hetter. I haven't seen
ReplyDeleteanything in writing from anyone except for the letter from RNG and the
love letter to RSK from his talmidim."
RaP: That "love letter" is what I am referring too, it showed the depth of popularity and hold of Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky, that he still has a HUGE Oilem of Rabbanim who are Roshei Yeshiva and big Machers with the majority of the English speaking American Yeshiva Velt that they direct. This is not something I am making up, and I do not support them personally, but they exist and they must be taken into account as the supporters of Rav Kaminetsky. They are standing by him so far, not sure what it will take to change their minds or their public positions of support for Rav Kaminetsky. It's serious.
"That letter specifically did not
address the hetter"
RaP: Please do not make it sound like it was a "get well" card! It was serious declaration in writing that they are standing by him, they are not commenting on the issues but they are not abandoning their captain, that much should be cl;ear it does not take much deductive or inductive reasoning to figue that out!
"and people who signed were upset when a sentence was
later added to indicate support for the psak."
RaP: Fool yourself some some and spin your wheels, they were upset that someone decided to say that Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky is "a Posek whose Pesakim must be accepted" which everyone knows he is not and none accepts him as a Posek really 'cause he is "better" than that he is Rosh Yeshiva= "Daas Torah" incarnate don't you see they are saying! so they were VERY happy to support Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky all the way and added words of honor to that effect. What don't I get?
"Rabbi Fuerst has not even
acknowledged his participation from what I hear."
RaP: Yeah, in the meantime there have plenty of posts and reports on this blog (where there is smoke there is fire!!!) that he has annulled dozens of such marriages and is getting away with murder, and you say he is "innocent" hey?
In the meantime, just see how Rav Kaminetsky is getting lots of Kovod from many Rabbanim in the USA, here is a fresh pic of Rabbi Moshe Hauer bowing to and almost hugging Rabbi Kaminetsky at the recent AJOP 2016 Kaminetsky love fest convention....
Rap was too frum, because the Fat Lady's singing was kol Isha nevertheless.
ReplyDeleteWill have you in zin
ReplyDeleteShkoyach, I guess!
ReplyDeleteIn your opinion, sometimes you see several dozen rabonim signed on a single document from all over the Globe, do you think they go all over for each to sign on that very document? When they have yom tfila of eis tsoro hi leYaakov do you tra la la trotting the world? Use your sechel.
ReplyDeleteHonesty said: "Whenever the in house RaPper"
ReplyDeleteRaP: make that the "(almost) founding RaP" and originally known as "Recipients and Publicity" as well, since I just took a look and I have been on this blog almost from the day it got going almost 9 years ago, that makes me more than a guest,at least a house guest who has not been evicted (yet).
"sees Rav Ahron Schecter's involvement in
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g, he becomes like a bull seeing red."
RaP: You'd make a terrible shrink, even though you deploy psychobabble more often than not, you are way off the mark as usual on this as well.
"This has nothing to
do with the heter."
RaP: What has "nothing to do with the heter"? You make it sound like I am a "one pony circus" when you are what exactly?
"RaP himself wrote well against it recently."
RaP: Indeed, I have said all along that the Hetter was a HUGE mistake and bluneder by the Kaminetskys. They misjudged badly how there would be strong opposition to them and their behind the scenes maneovres.
Well said
ReplyDeleteWho cares what reb dovid says, his dad is the source of the problem
ReplyDeleteMaybe a fat ladies kol is allowed, ask nota greenblatt
ReplyDeleteForget the looser case in LV, who gives a damm
ReplyDeleteThe posek of bmg, rav Yackov Forchheimer supports the hetter
ReplyDeletehttp://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+does+op+stand+for+online+
ReplyDeleteOP labeled (and described) this document as "rescinding" the original heter. Some commented how this is an inapt description since it wasn't voided by the enacting authority. OP then pointed to an alternative definition/usage of "rescind" where the subject is canceled by a "higher authority". I then questioned this usage because... Well, go reread my original post.
The rest of your reply is plain immaterial and pointless.
Is this meeting for a friendly debate, brawl, boxing match, a cold Miller's beer, rabonishe politics? Will you bring along the 250 ORA goons support group, veROFL arba meos ish imoi? if so, I will be accompanied by the RCMP black leather jackets, rochvei rechesh hoAchashtronim, ba'alei egrofin umegadlei blurit, mishmar hagvulnikes with elctric prod nagaykes, just in case if you think of something funny. BTW, I will don my neck of Shayish if you want to have a good bite into it. Please just let me know the format of this meeting. ready, willing and able, ledoiron, tfilah, ulemilchama. if you rescind, i will understand.
ReplyDeleteleil shishi, 2919 Bathurst St, or Kollel Toronto, 515 Coldstream Avenue 10:00 PM
Anyone who travels there on business or tourism and expects a shul named Young Israel Aish to be Orthodox then finds out it is not.
ReplyDelete* "The one who issued it", RSK, did not rescind anything*
ReplyDeleteYour premise is WRONG!!!
The K's went shopping for a HETER. RNG took it hook line and sinker without due dilligence and was duped. It was RNG that *issued* the HETER, as SO POSTED on this blog and was the MAIN POSEK HAMATIR. The K's went further shopping lechol man deboie lehishtatef, and found Fuerst and A Gavriel Stern in order to make it look like a BD of three, althougfh not *tlose kechode havina*, as originally posted, in spite of their denial. This is crystal clear, borur kashemesh. RSk jr was shuttling back and forth nodding hen hen from father to RNG, and from RNG hinhen berosho to RSKsr. vechozer vechalila. Therefore, the MATIR is OFFICIALLY RNG, as he himself replied when POSKIM confronted him. The K's leapfrogged the Kangaroo BD, and wallah, Hocus Pocus was Born! As for summary, it is the burden of RNG to reneg, to rescind, to whatever you wanna call it, outside of:
"... or by a superior authority."
Furthermore, if by an outsider superior authority, why is this BREAKING NEWS of RESCINDING more than POSKEI UGEOINEI KADMOEH such as RASHKEBEHAG R' Shternbuch and R' C. Kanievsky veod veod vechulhu vechulhu, that have already RESCINDED eons ago. Huh? And how would you explain that this yet is not the the full NEWS, according to you it is fully disclosed who is responsible for the rescinding.
You have all the rights to disagree, even if ledidoch nothing adds up making sense. It is indeed pointless to go on. Think of it as mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, oid ruchi venishmosi bi.
tofes loshon rishon is alive and well and kicking, veod eich!
HaRav M is yoshev vedoresh kol hayom , umoireh hoiroeh muvhak, a very respected learned man, and you are being very disrespectful. Vehevei zohir B.....
ReplyDeleteOn second thought, I RESCIND the meeting of leil shishi.
No he does not , he just doesn't like RSK name maligned in public
ReplyDeleteYou are sick, how dare u speak about Marin rav Moshe with such disrespect shame on you
ReplyDeleteMake that "damn" Nathan of Gaza.
ReplyDeleteThe LV case is not a "loser" it is about the corruption that goes on in the world of high class Kiruv when Aish guys are let loose on the world...it's a big topic, and this blog had an item recently about how the late Rabbi Belsky sent a Hazmona to Aish New York over a huge fight about 30 million bucks that somehow the vaunted Aish guys couldn't account for and blamed it all on a fall guy abetted by R Dovid Kohen, who has been mysteriously quiet about the Tamar Hetter when he likes to speak up about so many thing, and who is the "guardian" of Aish and we should ask him if he approves or not of what the cheeky Aish rabbi in LV has been up to as well and see what he "paskens" if it's always "Ais ubber alles" by him all the time or not?
Aish's motto:
Not Lakewood, there is an International civil war going on in Klal Yisroel over the Tammar hetter right now, one of many civil wars as part of Ikvesse Demeshicha and Chevlei Mashiach I guess.
ReplyDeleteThere we go!
ReplyDeleteProves that BMG is a dissonant configuration.
As I understand it, the "heter" was issued two years ago ( http://jewishtimes.com/17239/tamar-epsteins-5-year-battle-for-marital-freedom-apparently-over/ ). So why since then have people who believed the seruv ( http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/01/until-phony-seruv-of-rav-kaminetskys.html#disqus_thread )continued to treat Aharon Friedman as a pariah? Obviously no one, not even ORA's supporters, ever accepted the "heter".
ReplyDeleteThey all agree that the heter is a farce. Strategically they did not want it to be a BMG against philly issue and therefore Rabbi Kotler who is the most senior Rosh Yeshiva and on the Moetzes signed. Kudos to him!
ReplyDeleteThat is a lie Nathan. He does not support the Psak. He signed a letter that people should be careful about Kavod HaTorah.
ReplyDeleteWhy to you lie and attempt to paint a false narrative? Rabbi Bender and Rabbi Brudny are not and never will be pro heter. They did sign a letter saying people should ba careful of Kavod HaTorah of Reb Shmuel period. They are both against the heter.
ReplyDeleteHow did you verify that? It's an amateur cut and paste job that anyone with Windows 95 and Netscape could do. I'm sorry - just remembered that when it comes to Daniel Eidensohn we are supposed to think סוד ה׳ ליראיו.
ReplyDeleteNot true about Reb dovid Cohen he's been very vocal against the heter he on the same page as rabbi feldman on the heter
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of stupidity are you spewing
ReplyDeleteHe holds kol isha is mutar bzman hazeh
ReplyDeleteMaybe in your parallel universe. Haven't seen or heard anyone fighting over this issue. Is there one at Chaim Berlin? Flatbush, 13th avenue in Boro Park? Where?
ReplyDelete“Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter has been rescinded!” I wrote yesterday to the NYS Court of Appeals on motion 2016-125 2/16/2016:
ReplyDelete“I seek NY Kings County Supreme Court judges' written statements about my divorce 2/17/1993 on Susan's initiative rescinded. Judge Pesce wrote to me with copy to the late Judge Kaye 1996: “I have discussed the matter with Mr. Rothbart, as well as justice Rigler. According to him, he told you that your two children in Israel could be considered illegitimate if brought here because New York did not recognize your Israeli divorce.” Judge Pesce, who still works at the Kings County Supreme Court, could annul, cancel, and apologize what he said. Fine. Absent that, I need an equal or higher court to annul and cancel acts of judges of Kings County Supreme Court.”
Judge Pesce in 1966 was the administrative judge of the courthouse. He was not the judge of my case. The NYS Court of Appeals may see that Judge Pesce acted improperly, to my detriment. Judge Pesce’s 1996 letter is similar to the Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter.
Between whom and whom? Philly boys vs. the rest of Klal Yisroel? Not exactly what I would term a civil war.
ReplyDeleteConfused, for a civil war there has to be two sides......o_O
ReplyDeleteI am sure that the other roshei yeshiva are with him, a no-brainer. ..
ReplyDeleteLakewood is buzzing about the authenticity of the letter if it was changed after the signatures were gotten. A number of the rabbonim whose names are on there say they asked it be removed or they were not told it was going to be released and all of a sudden this blog goes silent. not a word. Why not call back your sources and see if there is any truth to these rumors. If they are true wouldnt it be appropriate to add an update? let us see how honest you are in this debate.
ReplyDeleteFor the same reason that even after R' Reuven acknowledged them all they are in Cherem Al PI Shulchan Aruch for serving a BOGUS SERUV and Rodef R' ARON shelo kedin, but still continue with ma'asse ta'atuim. It is the PRESSURE from the K's. Should people stop funding and donating money for the Yeshiva, remove their children from this Instituition, they will bow to the contra Pressure. Umaklo yagid lo. Veal yevakshu Torah mipihu.
ReplyDelete" Nothing has changed here."
ReplyDeleteExcept that RNG sent RSK as a shliach to order TEE/F/F to SEPARATE NOW! When T' asked whether it is AL PI DIN SO, all these Poskim replied to her, Yes indeed, it is AL PI DIN required to do so. Now THAT is a big change, don't you think so. RNG's directive to T' is the perfect description of * RESCINDING * his original HETER! ve'ein lehoshiv oleha. Have a wonderful Shabbat.
Not so, if you read my reply to B.J.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned, for a war you need two sides, since there is no way for a heter in such a situation, it would be out of the question, as was just now established, that even the most prominent rosh yeshiva won't get away with it, it would be a lost cause from the outset.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if someone anyways desires to do so anyway, they will know ahead of time, that for the most part, not only will it not be universally accepted, but to boot, it will be virtually universally rejected. ....
Duvi, the truth is the truth, run away from it and u will be ok
ReplyDeleteMaybe a civil war between the Philly boys themselves. ......one would need to take a poll to determine that....
ReplyDeletePlease stop lying...your insanity knows no bounds. The heter has not been rescinded, and never will be, no matter what fantasies your very strange mind creates.
ReplyDeleteSalty you strongly questioned my criticism of Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky claiming he wasn't involved. I replied with the last paragraph of Reb Shalom's letter where he directly contradicts your claims. Did you read what he wrote? Please answer with a direct answer - do you understand that Reb Shalom is claiming is father was fully involved in obtaining the heter from Rav Greenblatt - or are you claiming Reb Shalom is a liar?
ReplyDeleteRegarding your claim that Lakewood is buzzing - it was also buzzing with claims that Rav Zalman Nechmiah Goldberg supported the heter. The letter is authentic. It is true that some rabbis asked to have their names removed but I was told that was done before the version I posted was produced.
Bottom line - where are the rabbis that support the validity of the heter? Which rabbis do you claim appeared on this letter but wanted their names removed?
Never mind, by and large, he was contested earlier based on flimsy sevara that Rav Moshe used it in select instances, problem is everyone here makes himself referee, but. ....those with ample proof are the ones who win. .........
ReplyDeleteYOU want an update on a rumor that YOU can't prove?!!?
ReplyDeleteAre you able to tell us the names of the rabbonim who originally signed but asked for their names to be removed?
ReplyDeleteI responded directly to your claim. It says he showed it to him and he said the facts are correct. No one is arguing that Reb Shmuel knew that Reb Nuta was asked to give a heter. You are claiming Reb Shmuel gave the heter that is patently false. You claim he could have stopped it, he says Reb Nuta Paskened he is a bar samcha. As far as the new letter is concerned Yankel Horowitz says he wanted his name off R'Malkiel says it wasn't suppose to be released (he was out of country at the time) and believe it or not even the Miller Camp was furious it was released. The only 2 that we know signed and haven't claimed diffrently are R' EB Wachtfogel and R' Aaron Shechter .
ReplyDeleteRead it again. He does not say simply that he showed his father information and his father agreed that the facts are correct - as you are claiming.
ReplyDeleteNo one says that Reb Shmuel gave the heter. But it clearly says that Reb Shmuel was aware that a heter to marry without a Get was being asked for and he said to go to Rabbi Greenblatt to get it. Poskim around the world were asked to give a heter. Assuming that his son is telling the truth - then Reb Shmuel was activiely involved in obtaining a heter
1) So then please prove that they wanted their names off.
ReplyDelete2) Once you prove that, please prove that they hold of the heter.
3) And deal with the overwhelming majority of rabbonim who have come out against it (as opposed to RNG and RSK Sr and Jr and R Fuerst). .....
Ok Professor Wagstaff (you did see Horse Feathers?). Suppose you tell me why this seruv shown below (which has absolutely nothing to do the "heter" case) has not been followed? What do you see wrong with it? (All items in color and the excerpt from Meam Loez are added annotations)
ReplyDeleteSalty didn't you claim that this letter is 3 weeks old and that it wasn't a secret? What happened?
ReplyDelete"This blog has been talking about it since the meeting at R A Shecters house about 3 weeks ago it wasn't a big secret."
What is most strange is that Aish claims that Las Vegas is no longer part of Aish yet Las Vegas continues to use the Aish Hatorah name on the building as well as their logo.
ReplyDelete-----------------------------------------------------
From: rnw@aish.com
Subject: RE: Synagogue still calls itself Young Israel - Aish Hatorah of Las Vegas
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:39:40 +0300
Las Vegas is definitely no longer an affiliate of Aish HaTorah on any level, and should have removed the name from their stationery etc. They have been asked to do so and we will follow up on this. Thank you very much for bringing the matter to our attention.
Rabbi Avraham Manolson
Assistant to Rabbi Noah Weinberg
And rabbi bromberg signed he told me and so did rav malkeil
ReplyDeleteThe other three clowns from bmg. And I heard rsf shustal and the letter is real
ReplyDeleteI heard that rsk could not say it was all pi din
ReplyDeleteWho give a crap about what some litvish or for that matter chasidish rosh yeshiva position is on a matter of halacha
ReplyDeleteContrary to what you claim Rabbi Horowitz was in fact the driving force behind the letter.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Malkiel Kotler was actually out of state skiing in Switzerland (he broke his wrist), he was in touch with Rav Elya Ber and left it up to Rav Elya Ber's discretion to use his signature.
Haven't heard yet about Rav Miller but given your track record for accuracy - it is highly unlikely that he was "furious" about its release
If Reb Nota would have said no heter where would we be today? That was the one person that Reb Shmuel had suggested. To go and blame the heter on Reb Shmuel for that price AF is equally to blame for not giving a get. It a ridiculous claim. You are wrong for calling it the kamenetsky greenblatt heter.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I'm concerned the halakhists have spoken, and its pathetic that all of you are running after this rosh yeshiva or that one for there uneducated opinions, wow is to us that the leadership of klal Yisroel is in the hands of the roshei yeshiva
ReplyDeleteBite me
ReplyDeleteWhat's the big chiluk if he agreed he signed it but didn't want it published?
ReplyDeleteWhere did you hear he was skiing?
ReplyDeleteSalty the request for the heter to remarry without a Get was shown to a number of poskim around the world - and it was rejected. In the letter to Rabbi Greenblatt he mentions that his father suggested Rabbi Greenblatt - but he wasn't the first choice. Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky was kept informed all along and not just immediately prior to sending the letter to Rabbi Greenblatt. It is the Kaminetsky-Greenblatt heter.
ReplyDelete