Saturday, August 26, 2023

Haredi students receiving degrees, entering workforce, in droves

The percentage in haredi society of those who officially work has reached a record high of 55.8%


  1. Are they still hareidi?

  2. Only if their families don't find out.
    There have been 2 groups like this for a while - the ones who are sick of listening to "The Gedolim" tell them that they are wonderful people the poorer they are and the ones who want their kids to have clean clothes and good food. The latter are going to work.

  3. Or they are restoring the glory to true frumkeit.
    My question was, eg if Satmar / neturei K celebrate yom haatzmaut, are they still Satmar etc?

  4. I see your point but it's not the same thing.
    Modern Satmar has "We hate Zionism" as part of its founding principles. When the Chasam Sofer, zt"l, invented Modern Chareidism (tm), not working was not part of his innovative ideology. That was tacked on later by the Chazon Ish, zt"l, so a Chareidi can work and still be Chareidi. It's modern Chareidi activists who deny that.

  5. "those terrible YU people!
    Oh, "J.B." is a gadol, but he went OTD. And if Rav Shach says he's wrong, then he must be wrong."


    That's what I heard from hareidim for decades.

  6. then again, in Bnei Brak, someone can be an adulterer and still have a place in Olam Haba, even if he reaches it by his own revolver.
    A smartphone or a degree, however, will lose you your place, as will, wearing denim.

  7. My favourite story was told by one of my rebbes who said he was sitting in yeshiva reading Orot and someone came over and told him that the Chazon Ish said "You can read Rav Kook's halakha but not his philosophy." His response? "Well Rav Kook clearly wanted people to read his philosophy and I hold by his opinion."

  8. In Ohr Sameach they defaced certain siddurim which had the prayer for State of Israel in it.
    In Lubavitch , they defaced certain books which had a haskamah from Rav Shach.

    In soccer, they still have fights between the thugs of different teams

  9. you seem to reject rejection!
    Does that include rejection of idolatry, heresy, anti Semites etc etc?

  10. Every time I call on idolatry, heresy etc you defend them because they are either Hareidi or well respected.

  11. The problem is that the definitions of those things has become "Anything I disagree with!"

  12. So you agree that somethings need to be rejected

  13. Certainly. The problem is the concept of rejection but agreement on those things that need to be rejected.
    Look, here's a basic example - according to many Chareidi sources, Religious Zionism is to be rejected as a heretical movement. RZ begs to differ.

  14. The example I gave in the ohr sameach beit hamedrash - they kept the rinat yisroel siddurim, but cut out the prayer for the State of Israel. I think it was also the prayer for the army removed.
    times change. the era of Shachism has ended, and the rosh yeshiva now quotes rav simcha wasserman ztl (Reb Elchonon's son) who basically said that Herzl and the Dreyfus affair was the turning point leading to kibbutz galuyot. it's essentially what we would hear from RZ rabbis, that this is atchalta d'geula.
    the question is also who sanctioned vandalism of siddurim? was it instructed by the roshei yeshiva, or just some kanoim who took matters into their own hands.

  15. The "false " Torah jews website of nk claims that the chazon ish predicted that the Medina was coming to an end, IE in the 50s.
    then the hareidi maniacs in 88 claimed that 40 years is a unit of time, and Intifada spells the end.
    in the old days a false prophet would be killed if their prediction was false.

  16. Funny story. I keep a siddur in my makom in shul. It's a standard siddur so I took a small photocopy of the prayer for the State and pasted it to the inside cover. One day I open it and I see that someone scratched out part of the tefillah - "Reish tz'michas ge'ulaseinu." Just those three words!
    Bizarre. I know the Rav, zt"l, and Rav Schachter, y"l, were against those three words but they're not the types to encourage their followers to vandalize other people's siddurim. If you're against the whole tefillah (and have no respect for personal property, obviously) , why just those three words?

  17. Not every prediction that doesnt happen means the person is a false prophet
    Try learning the Rambam

  18. Depends where you are coming from - if you mean someone needs to self declare that they are a prophet in order to be tested, then I would agree with you. if someone just likes making predictions, eg who will win the horse race at the tracks at 3.30, then they are just a punter, like anyone else.

    On the other hand, if they claim (or is claimed by their followers) that they are a prophet, have ruach hakodesh or daas Torah etc. Then a false prediction makes their status as one with a hotline to Divine events, questionable.

    Around 1960, after the petirah of Rav Herzog, there was a delay in appointing a new chief Rabbi. At the time, the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that every day that passes without a new Cheif Rabbi, is a chillul Hashem, and he predicted that Rav Shlomo Goren will be Chief Rabbi. (they were close at this stage).
    What is interesting is that even though the Rebbe later opposed Rav Goren's appointment, his prediction did in fact come true.

  19. This article refutes the NK claim which put words into the CI's mouth,


please use either your real name or a pseudonym.