It is clear from Yoma (85b), Rambam and Shulchan Aruch O. 606 that Yom Kippur alone atones for sins against G-d. There is a view that Yom Kippor will not atone for sins against G-d when the sins against man have not been resolved. Does anyone know of the source of this view which seems to contradict clear halacha?
Yoma (85b)With regard to one who says: I will sin and Yom Kippur will atone for my sins, Yom Kippur does not atone for his sins. Furthermore, for transgressions between a person and God, Yom Kippur atones; however, for transgressions between a person and another, Yom Kippur does not atone until he appeases the other person. Similarly, Rabbi Elazar ben Azarya taught that point from the verse: “From all your sins you shall be cleansed before the Lord” (Leviticus 16:30). For transgressions between a person and God, Yom Kippur atones; however, for transgressions between a person and another, Yom Kippur does not atone until he appeases the other person.
Rambam Tshuva (2:9) Neither repentance nor the Day of Atonement atone for any save for sins committed between man and God, for instance, one who ate forbidden food, or had forbidden coition and the like; but sins between man and man, for instance, one injures his neighbor, or curses his neighbor or plunders him, or offends him in like matters, is ever not absolved unless he makes restitution of what he owes and begs the forgiveness of his neighbor. And, although he make restitution of the monetory debt, he is obliged to pacify him and to beg his forgiveness. Even he offended not his neighbor in aught save in words, he is obliged to appease him and implore him till he be forgiven by him..
when you do ask for forgiveness and they refuse, then they are considered as not being true Jews.
ReplyDelete“Forgiveness of sins against G-d” Yoma 85a
ReplyDelete“[if one says]: I shall sin and the Day of Atonement will procure atonement for me, the Day of Atonement procures for him no atonement, for transgressions as between man and The Omnipresent the Day of Atonement procures atonement, but for transgressions as between man and his fellow the Day of Atonement does not procure any atonement, until he has pacified his fellow. This was expounded by R. Eleazar b. Azariah: from all your sins before the lord shall ye be clean [Lev. XVI, 30], i.e., for transgressions as between man and The Omnipresent the Day of Atonement procures atonement, but for transgressions as between man and his fellow the day of atonement does not procure atonement until he has pacified his fellow [The verse is thus taken to mean From all your sins before the Lord, (i.e. , as between man and his Creator) will the Day the Atonement procure you forgiveness; but not for those which are committed not before the Lord, and before man, viz., sins committed against our fellow-man.]. R. Akiba said: Happy are you, Israel! who is it before whom you become clean? And who is it that makes you clean? Your father which is in Heaven, as it is said: and I will sprinkle clean water upon you and ye shall be clean [Ezek. XXXVI, 25]. And it further says: thou hope of israel, the lord [Jer. XVII, 13. The word mikweh is a homonym meaning both fountain thus ritual bath, and hope.]! Just as the fountain renders clean the unclean, so does the holy one, blessed be he, renders clean Israel.”
My theory. I like Rabbi Akiva here. R. Eleazar b. Azariah qualifies forgiveness of all our sins from the plain meaning. “For on this day atonement shall be made for you, to cleanse you of all your sins, you shall be clean before the Lord.” (Leviticus 16:30). Rabbi Akiva seems to be disagreeing. Rabbi Akiva cites Jeremiah as if simply Day of Atonement is like dipping in the mikveh. We love Rabbi Akiva. I read R. Heshel's 3 volumes on Rabbi Akiva. Is Rabbi Akiva right that Day of Atonement is like dipping in the mikveh?
I like “He who is generous to the poor makes a loan to the Lord; He will repay him his due.” (Proverbs 19:17).
משלי פרק יט פסוק יז
מַלְוֵה יְקֹוָק חוֹנֵן דָּל וּגְמֻלוֹ יְשַׁלֶּם לוֹ:
מלבי"ם
מלוה ה' חונן דל וגמולו ישלם לו, מי שנותן לדל בחנינה מתנת חנם, דומה כמלוה לה', שמלבד שישלם את החוב ישלם גם הגמול, שגדר הגמול הוא התפעלות אהבה שישלם גם האהבה שסבב בטובו, שהוא גדול מן החוב עצמו (ויל"פ ה' הלוה לחונן דל, ר"ל מה שיש ביד העשיר היא הלואה מה' כדי שיחונן דל, ובזה ישלם גמול לה' בעד ההלואה):
The Malbim explains that giving charity to the poor graciously, expecting no return is like lending to the Lord. The Lord will repay the loan. We become a creditor with God the debtor.
Thank you God for Your Day of Atonement and Your Torah and Your Land of Israel and for You Choosing the Jewish people to last. See my Torah thought on האזנו “Do you thus requite the Lord, O dull and witless people? Is not He the Father who created you, Fashioned you and made you endure!” (Deuteronomy 32:6).
Source?
ReplyDeleteYou know the source, you are just checking that I do:
ReplyDeleteHilkhot Teshuva 2:10
Granting Forgiveness to One's Fellow
By David Silverberg
It is forbidden for a person to be cruel and not grant pardon. One should rather
easily forgive and not easily grow angry, and when the offender requests
forgiveness he should forgive with a full heart and generous spirit. Even if he
caused him distress and committed many offenses against him, he shall not exact
revenge or bear a grudge. This is the way of the Israelite people and their
principled heart. But the idolaters…are not like this; rather, they preserve their
wrath eternally. It thus says (Shemuel II 21:2) with regard to the Givonites
because they did not forgive or grant pardon, "and the Givonites were not among
the Israelites."
(Hilkhot Teshuva 2:10)
After establishing in the previous halakha the requirement to request the victim's
forgiveness to achieve atonement for interpersonal offenses, Maimonides now turns his
attention to the victim, and requires that he willingly grant forgiveness to the offender.
Regardless of the gravity or number of instances of the offense, the victim is enjoined to
offer forgiveness rather than retain feelings of ill-will towards the offender.
This comment is rooted in a number of passages in the Talmud, including a
comment in the Mishna in Masekhet Bava Kama (92a): "And from where [do we know]
that if he [the victim] did not forgive him, he is cruel? As it says (Bereishit 20:17),
'Avraham prayed to God, and God healed Avimelekh and his household…'" After Sara's
abduction by the Philistine king Avimelekh, the king returned her to her husband,
Avraham, and asked forgiveness. Avraham immediately prayed to the Almighty on
Avimelekh's behalf, indicating his wholehearted pardon for the king's crime. The Mishna
views Avraham's reaction as a precedent for offering forgiveness even in cases of
especially grievous offenses.
Likewise, the Talmud in Masekhet Yoma (87b) records Rava's statement that
somebody accustomed to being ma'avir al midotav – "passing over his retaliations" – will
be worthy of similar measures of forgiveness from the Almighty. The Talmud clearly
approaches this remark as a normative halakhic ruling, enlisting it as a challenge against
Rabbi Chanina's refusal to forgive Rav for insulting him. Rabbi Chanina's conduct is
ultimately justified only on the basis of the extenuating circumstances surrounding the
case, as described in the Gemara, suggesting that normally a victim is indeed obliged to
grant forgiveness for wrongs committed against him.
Returning to Maimonides' remarks, he adds that extending forgiveness constitutes
not merely an obligation, but also a hallmark of Jewish values: "This is the way of the
Israelite people and their principled heart." He makes reference in this context to the
incident described in the Book of Shemuel II (chapter 21), where the Givonite tribe
demanded the execution of seven descendants of King Shaul as retribution for his crimes ....
They outright refused to accept any monetary reparations, insisting instead
on the death of seven innocent descendants of the king (21:4). In this context the prophet
makes a point of emphasizing that this tribe did not belong to Benei Yisrael (21:2), which
Maimonides explains as an expression of Benei Yisrael's characteristic willingness to
forgive. It was because the Givonites "were not among the Israelites," and thus did not
possess this quality of compassionate forgiveness, that they so cruelly demanded such a
gruesome price to avenge Shaul's crimes
Well there's a hint of it in tefillah zakah which is very concerned with us forgiving all sins committed against us before YK even starts.
ReplyDeleteOne could make the argument that since God wants us to forgive others, then not doing so and going into YK with a "I'm sorry about eating that treif but not about stealing from Herschel" will not lead to God feeling positive about forgiving.
Spot on.
ReplyDeleteBUT note that Hilkhot Teshuva 2:10 follows 2:9 (quoted in the OP) which states that the offender is obligated to pacify the offended and to beg his forgiveness.
Even if a person only upset a colleague by saying [certain] things, he must >b, until he forgives him.
Rav Elyashiv z"l (Beis Hillel Journal, 43:1) notes:
https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=58699&st=&pgnum=17&hilite=
The world is accustomed to ask for forgiveness, by asking, "Are you 'moichel' me? Are you 'moichel' me? Are you 'moichel' me?", three times. That is not considered even once, because it is written "until he is appeased," and a [mere] request for forgiveness is not considered at attempt at reconciliation.
The meaning of "appeasement" is that the offender should show the victim, that he understands that he has sinned against him, and that he truly cares about this fact.
Moreover, that which is stated that the offender should not be cruel by withholding forgiveness, only applies if the offender sought to appease the offender in the manner described above [that he shows the victim that he understood that he sinned against him and truly cares about it]. However if the offender merely asked him for forgiveness, he is NOT OBLIGATED to forgive him at all, and he certainly isn't called "cruel" if he does not forgive him.
Not clear what the chiddush is here - do people just say "moichel me" in a rote fashion? Yes, but that is usually with people they don't have a serious broiges with -and probably nothing at all going on.
ReplyDeleteAnd appeasement - sometimes you cannot appease someone! I once offended someone by expressing my opinion openly in front of his wife. There is no appeasement. OK, so what. I learned to not express my opinion openly in certain situations.
The point is that it is the nature of Israel to have rachmanus. You cannot someone who is the seed of Amaleik, and then say he has no obligation to forgive.
I s'ppose for rabbis, it is slightly different, since they are not allowed to forgive if someone slights their honor.
Torah thought Daf Hayomi Beitzha 17b
ReplyDeleteתלמוד בבלי מסכת ביצה דף יז עמוד ב
אמר רב אשי: הערמה קא אמרת, שאני הערמה דאחמירו בה רבנן טפי ממזיד. רב נחמן בר יצחק אמר: הא מני - חנניה היא, ואליבא דבית שמאי. דתניא, חנניה אומר: בית שמאי אומרים: אין אופין אלא אם כן ערב בפת, ואין מבשלין אלא אם כן ערב בתבשיל, ואין טומנין אלא אם כן היו חמין טמונין מערב יום טוב. ובית הלל אומרים: מערב בתבשיל אחד ועושה בו כל צרכו.
“ Said R. Ashi: You speak of all artifice? An artifice is different, for the Rabbis have treated it more rigorously than an intentional transgression [Deliberate transgression is recognized as such and will not entice others whereas all evasion may be regarded as wholly permitted and set an evil example for others too]. R. Nahman b. Isaac says: This [The teaching if he has resorted to an artifice it is forbidden. R. Nahman does not admit the possibility that an artifice may be treated more stringently than deliberate transgression, for the latter is certainly a graver fault intrinsically.] represents the opinion of Hananiah and according to Beth Shammai. For it was taught [Supra 22b]: Hananiah says that Beth Shammai maintain: One may bake only if he set an erub of bread, and one may cook only if he set an erub of cooked food, and one may store only if he had already warm water stored on the eve of the Festival; but Beth Hillel affirm: One may set an erub with one dish and prepare all his requirement [in reliance] thereon [Consequently we see that Hananiah is very stringent with reference to an ‘erub tabshilin, and therefore the same applies to an artifice, but our problem is based on Beth Hillel's more lenient ruling.].”
Fascinating. My theory. Mendel Epstein Rabbi Ralbag Ralbag/Morgenstern, ORA and similar fool themselves in their partisan/joke court rulings on the side of the screaming agunah. They use הערמה to justify taking the supposed agunah’s side. Their scholarly statements are a joke. They probably believe the supposed Trump evil in the internet. Oh I’m getting off the subject. Did Mendel Epstein believe he was doing a mitzvah with his cattle prod?
The person who you said “moichel me”. Three times in rote, and he didn’t agree to be “moichel” probably has a good reason not to. Possibly because the hurt is still there, and he senses that the offender is more concerned about saving his own neck from Divine punishment, more than the fact that he really regrets his actions.
ReplyDeleteRav Elyashev’s point is that under such circumstances, not being willing to forgive is not indicative of any blemish in a person’s pedigree. It merely shows that the offender doesn’t take his responsibility to make up with the offended, too seriously, and therefore there is no obligation to forgive someone who will probably repeat his offensive behavior, should the opportunity present itself. [You don’t have to tolerate abuse from a person, and then be held to task for not being more “forgiving”].
I don’t know that if someone got offended by you expressing their opinion openly in front of his wife, needs appeasement. His being so touchy; is his problem, not yours. However if you insulted his wife in front of him, you probably need “mechila” from both of them.
Rav elyashiv has a point, but he is apparently speaking about a personality disorder. Ie they are programmed to offend again.
ReplyDeleteAbusive personality who asks forgiveness but repeats abuse.
I disagree with both KA and IsraelReader here. Allow me. My theory. If some asks you forgiveness and you believe he’s doing הרעמה- artifice (= clever or cunning devices or expedients, especially as used to trick or deceive others)---you should forgive him completely wholeheartedly, so God, maybe, will forgive you.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Mendel Epstein thought with his cattle prod he was doing a mitzvah. I knew Mendel Epstein when he lived around the corner from me, a top scholar and righteous man. He told Susan in front of me in 1991 that she must join me in Israel according to the Gamara I cite. I was in his house and met his wife and sons. I remember him in my shul.
What happened to Mendel Epstein? My theory. He came to believe totally the stories of the supposed agunot. This happens to people. God made us this way. Don’t Progressive left believe totally in evil acts they see in the fake news on Trump and Netanyahu? Allow me my letter Friday to the NYS Court of Appeals with copy to the NYS Commission on Judicial Conduct:
“2.I'm not a lawyer. I'm 75 years old retired living with my dear wife Yemima and our daughters in an apartment owned by my dear wife Yemima, also retired. My assets are my 1985 SAAB and my 2006 Kawasaki 500. My income is USA and Israel social security and starting September 1, 2021 100% of my TIAA pension. For 27 years TIAA paid my opposition 55% of my pension. In my court appearance August 1992 I came with copies of 22 letters I wrote to my opposition after I went to live permanently in Israel July 1991. In the August 1992 hearing before Rigler/Rothbart Attorney Popkin asked me if I have proofs of mailing. She knew that I didn't as these were my pleadings for my opposition to come to Israel even for a short visit. In my letter I argued that my salary would enable us to live well in Israel, in addition to my TIAA pension, the $750 monthly . I started collecting my full TIAA pension in 1993 after I married Yemima.
3.At the moment I have no need for relief or involvement of the NYS Court of Appeals. I made have need for relief from the NYS Court of Appeals if any of the following: TIAA fails to pay me 100% of my pension. Actions against me to enforce the $25,000 Rigler/Rothbart/Garson fines against me. Actions against me concerning my property rights in my house at 498 E. 18 Street, Brooklyn, NY 11226 USA.
4.Appendix B: Letter dated 3/24/1993 Attorney Popkin and letter dated 9/13/1996 Judge Pesce are two documents during the 1994-1997 illegal TIAA 100% freeze of my pension. These documents support all my many court letters these 30 years.
5.My complaint before the New York State Commission on Judicial Conduct is that Judge Prus and the NYS Court of Appeals are biased, partisan, toward the woman's side, from the beginning of Aranoff v Aranoff 30 years ago. The rulings to freeze my TIAA pension 100\% 4 years 1994--1997, the \$25,000 Rigler/Rothbart/Garson fines, and the transfer of my house are a joke.”
It might be more common than you think, and they wait for Erev Yom Kippur to do their "moichel, moichel?" shtick, so that they can now cover their backside for all of last year's abuse, and have a clean slate going into the next year.
ReplyDeleteThese can be spouses, employers, colleagues at work, neighbors, or so-called "friends".
They might not even realize that they are abusers, or they may think that the abuse that they heap upon you is a "mitzvah", because they need to "educate" you.
I recently heard a story of a girl in seminary who was invited to a family for a Friday night Shabbos meal. When they got to "Eishes Chayil", the host emphatically announced, "This week we WILL NOT be singing Eishes Chayil!". Who knows how much abuse was behind such an announcement? I pity the woman of that house.
Do you practice what you preach? You haven't forgiven Susan for the financial abuse she has heaped upon you, even thirty years later.
ReplyDeleteIf someone wants to forgive their abuser, despite the abuser not being sincere in their apology, I won't interfere. They can do what they want to do.
But if the offended victim doesn't want to forgive their abuser, until the abuser make serious attempts at reconciliation, I totally understand them, and don't expect them to do otherwise. I also think that Hashem also understands their pain.
anyone with any sense would conceal if they had had an argument with their spouse. Some people with personality disorders tend to publicize it.
ReplyDeleteSatire
ReplyDeleteThe offended is enjoined to ask forgiveness from the offender, for being a kind of person that evoked this kind of abuse from them.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1cb203cceff0971067afd8ada080bd8c0524019cd466d74b841013cd2c38def5.jpg
Common sense is not that common.
ReplyDeleteI still disagree with both KA and IsraelReader, allow me.
ReplyDeleteBeitzah 17b
“Come and hear: He who has set an erub tabshilin may bake and cook and store, and if he wishes to eat his erub he is at liberty to do so. If he ate it [the erub] before he had baked [or] before he had stored, then he may not bake nor cook nor store away neither for himself nor for others, nor may others bake or cook for him; but he may cook for the Festival and if he leaves [any thing] he has left it for the Sabbath, provided that he does not [intentionally] resort to an artifice [evasion of the law by purposely cooking much more than he requires] and if he has resorted to all artifice it is forbidden [And presumably the same is true if he transgressed and cooked!]”
תלמוד בבלי מסכת ביצה דף יז עמוד ב
תא שמע: מי שהניח עירובי תבשילין - הרי זה אופה ומבשל ומטמין, ואם רצה לאכול את עירובו - הרשות בידו. אכלו עד שלא אפה עד שלא הטמין - הרי זה לא יאפה ולא יבשל ולא יטמין, לא לו ולא לאחרים, ולא אחרים אופין ומבשלין לו. אבל מבשל הוא ליום טוב, ואם הותיר - הותיר לשבת, ובלבד שלא יערים. ואם הערים - אסור.
Big problem in diaspora where observe day after day cannot prepare for Sabbath without erub tabshilin, on 1st day of Passover, Shavuoth, and 1st day of Succoth and Simchat Torah.. Our Sages strict, if no erub tabshilin, an artifice is forbidden. Beautiful. Fall smaller problem in Israel without the requirement of observing two days, day after day יום טוב שני של גלויות.
Our Sages limit the possibility of using artifices. Good.
My theory is that Rackman/Morgenstern, Mendel Epstein/Ralbag, ORA etc believed and sympathized with the supposed agunah paying them the money. They conducted their courts as a cruel joke to rule harshly against the man using artifices. Anyway the man wasn’t paying them. They fooled themselves they were good judges.
Yes artifices in Biden/Harris administration. The Progressive Left in Congress proposes a voting law: no ID needed and states must accept all mail-in-ballots however late. “ The Freedom to Vote Act would create a federal right to a mail ballot, no excuse needed, overruling laws in 16 states. Worse, every state would be required to count late-arriving mail votes.” My favorite writer is Jack Engelhard. I read his books. “Nor will we need more slanderous anti-Israel voices in Congress once you get elected. The Squad is enough.” The Progressive Left uses artifices, a pretension of legality and righteousness to make it worse for Israel. Bravo Trump brought the US Embassy to Jerusalem...
Torah thought on Sukkot Avodah Zara 3a:
ReplyDelete“The nations will then say, Sovereign of the Universe, has Israel, who accepted the Torah, observed it? The Holy One, blessed be He, will reply, I can give evidence that they observed the Torah. O Lord of the Universe, they will argue, can a father give evidence in favor of his son? For it is written, Israel is My son, My firstborn. Then will the Holy One, blessed be He, say: Heaven and Earth can bear witness that Israel has fulfilled the entire Torah. But they will [object], saying: Lord of the Universe, Heaven and Earth are partial witnesses, for it is said, If not for My covenant with day and with night. I should not have appointed the ordinances of Heaven and Earth. (And R. Simeon b. Lakish further said: What is conveyed by the phrase. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day? It teaches us that God made a condition with the works of creation, saying: If Israel accept my Law it will be well, but if not, I shall reduce you to a state of chaos; which accords with the comment of R. Hezekiah on the verse, Thou didst cause sentence to be heard from Heaven, the earth trembled and was still: If the earth trembled, how could it be still, and if it was still, how could it tremble? But at first it trembled, and subsequently it became still.) Then the Holy One, blessed be He, will say, Some of yourselves shall testify that Israel observed the entire Torah. Let Nimrod come and testify that Abraham did not [consent to] worship idols; let Laban come and testify that Jacob could not be suspected of theft; let Potiphar's wife testify that Joseph was above suspicion of immorality; let Nebuchadnezzar come and testify that Hanania, Mishael and Azariah did not bow down to an image; let Darius come and testify that Daniel never neglected the [statutory] prayers; let Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, and Eliphaz the Temanite [and Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite] testify that Israel has observed the whole Torah; as it is said, Let them [the nations] bring their [own] witnesses, that they [Israel] may be justified. The nations will then plead. Offer us the Torah anew and we shall obey it. But the Holy One, blessed be He, will say to them, You foolish ones among peoples, he who took trouble [to prepare] on the eve of the Sabbath can eat on the Sabbath, but he who has not troubled on the eve of the Sabbath, what shall he eat on the Sabbath? Nevertheless, I have an easy command which is called Sukkah; go and carry it out.”
Beautiful. My theory. Here in Israel Sukkah is easy to keep especially in Bnei Brak. Yes, I don’t eat or drink or sleep outside the Sukkah. In NY and Miami Beach impossible to properly observe Sukkot because of cold, hurricanes, rain, and fear of robbers. Everyone has beautiful the four species. Sukkah in Israel is an easy command. Outside of Israel Sukkah is not any easy command.
Yes Monday the Supreme Court of the USA in Washington DC will vote on my petitions, a simple yes or no to accept for review. All 9 judges will meet on 9/27/2021 with their computers and phones and no staff.
Amen to that!
ReplyDeleteThat sounds like something a Liberal would demand, and very self-righteously too!
ReplyDeleteI opine that Hashem understands their pain, as well.
ReplyDelete💯💯💯💯💯!!!!
ReplyDeleteYou positively NAILED it!!
I too, am very sorry to the ugliness that this girl was exposed to.
Thank you most kindly, for all that you post.
ReplyDeleteI never knew about the Halachah in your closing statement.
It is very much appreciated, beyond words.
Am I to take that to mean that a person doesn't have to say Hareini Mochel every single night, or does one say it and can exclude someone?
Also, what is the Halachah if someone said something extremely judgmental, painful, and FALSE, to someone else, and doesn't know that their words stabbed a person in the heart, metaphorically speaking? Is the injured party obligated to tell the one who hurt them?
This is a case where the person is clueless that they said Motzei Shem Rah and caused tremendous Ona'as Devarim.
Please check your email...
We read Ecclesiastes today. Torah thought
ReplyDelete“Go לך, eat your bread in gladness בשמחה, and drink your wine in joy בלב טוב; for God had already approved your works כי כבר רצה האלקים את מעשיך. Let your clothes always be white בכל עת יהיו בגדך לבנים; and your head never lack anointment. Enjoy life with the woman you love ראה חיים עם אשה אשר אהבת all the days of life of your vanity הבלך, which have been given you under the sun, all the days of your vanity ימי הבלך. For that is your portion in life כי הוא חלקך בחיים, and in your labor where you labor ובעמלך אשר אתה עמל under the sun. Whatever it is in your power to do, do with all your might. For there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:7-10).
קהלת פרק ט פסוק ט
רְאֵה חַיִּים עִם אִשָּׁה אֲשֶׁר אָהַבְתָּ כָּל יְמֵי חַיֵּי הֶבְלֶךָ אֲשֶׁר נָתַן לְךָ תַּחַת הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ כֹּל יְמֵי הֶבְלֶךָ כִּי הוּא חֶלְקְךָ בַּחַיִּים וּבַעֲמָלְךָ אֲשֶׁר אַתָּה עָמֵל תַּחַת הַשָּׁמֶשׁ:
Kiddushin 30b
“The School of R. Ishmael taught: My son, if this repulsive [wretch] [the Evil Desire] assail thee, lead him to the schoolhouse: if he is of stone, he will dissolve; if iron, he will shiver [into fragments], for it is said: Is not my word like as fire? saith the Lord,’ and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces [Jer. XXIII, 29]? If he is of stone, he will dissolve, for it is written: Ho, everyone that thirsteth, come ye to the waters [Isa. LV, 1; i.e., the Torah]; and it is said: The waters wear the stones [Job XIV, 19].To take a wife for him. How do we know it? Because it is written: Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands [Jer. XXIX, 6]. As for [marrying] his son, it is well, for it rests with him [lit., it is in his hand one can always find a bride for his son.]; but with respect to his daughter, does it then rest with him [One cannot easily obtain a husband for his daughter. How then does Jeremiah say, and give your daughters to husbands?]? This is his meaning: Let her be dowered, clothed and adorned, that men should eagerly desire her [lit., spring upon her]. To teach him a craft. Whence do we know it? Said Hezekiah: Scripture saith, See to a livelihood with the wife whom thou lovest [Ecc. IX, 9]. If wife is literal, [this teaches,] just as he [the father] is bound to take a wife for him, so is he bound to teach him a craft [for a livelihood]; if it is [a metaphor for] Torah, then just as he is bound to teach him Torah, so is he bound to teach him a craft.”
רש"י קהלת פרק ט פסוק ט
ראה חיים עם אשה אשר אהבת - ראה והבן ללמוד אומנות להתפרנס ממנו עם ת"ת אשר בידך: כי הוא חלקך בחיים - אם עשית כן יהיה חלקך זה חיים בעה"ז להתפרנס מן האומנות ובעה"ב שיגיעת שניהם משכחת עון:
My theory. I like the plain meaning of Ecclesiastes 9:9. King Solomon advises men to enjoy happiness with their wives. This is real happiness. Men, do your work, whatever it is, but be faithful to your wives, above all. Beautiful.
Oops King Solomon had 1,000 wives. I notice King Solomon attacks bad women: קהלת פרק ז פסוק כו
וּמוֹצֶא אֲנִי מַר מִמָּוֶת אֶת הָאִשָּׁה אֲשֶׁר הִיא מְצוֹדִים וַחֲרָמִים לִבָּהּ אֲסוּרִים יָדֶיהָ טוֹב לִפְנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים יִמָּלֵט מִמֶּנָּה וְחוֹטֵא יִלָּכֶד בָּהּ:
Thanks KA for the uptick. The Gamara quotes that King Solomon actually said insults to women:
ReplyDeleteתלמוד בבלי מסכת ברכות דף ח עמוד א
על זאת יתפלל כל חסיד אליך לעת מצא, אמר רבי חנינא: לעת מצא - זו אשה שנאמר: מצא אשה מצא טוב. במערבא, כי נסיב אינש אתתא, אמרי ליה הכי: מצא או מוצא? מצא - דכתיב מצא אשה מצא טוב ויפק רצון מה', מוצא דכתיב: ומוצא אני מר ממות את האשה וגו'.
My theory. Oh everyone knows that women can be bitter and filled with traps and snares and will convince male rulers to do their will. In Afghan, it is now illegal all education to teenage and up girls. Taliban rulers know that the teenage and up girls in Afghan will bring down the evil rulers if they are educated. Didn’t Eve convince Adam to eat of the Forbidden Fruit in the Garden of Eden? Didn’t Potiphar's wife convince her husband to throw Joseph in jail?
A bitter women today filled with traps and snares is Nancy Pelosi “Speaker Nancy Pelosi in late August dragooned her centrists into voting to begin a reconciliation bill, in return for her promise they’d get a vote on their bipartisan $1 trillion infrastructure bill no later than Sept. 27.” Other examples: The Squad.
KA, IsraelReader, Conservative Mom how do you explain?
“All this I tested with wisdom כל זה נסיתי בחכמה. I thought I could fathom it, but it eludes me. [The secret of] what happens is elusive and deep, deep down; who can discover it? I put my mind to studying, exploring, and seeking wisdom and the reason of things, and to studying wickedness, stupidity, madness and folly. Now, I find woman more bitter than death; she is all traps, her hands are fetters and her heart is snares and nets. He who is pleasing to God shall escapes her, and he who is displeasing is caught by her וחוטא ילכד בה. See, this is what I found, said Koheleth, item by item in my search for the reason of things. As for what I sought further but did not find, I found only one human being in a thousand, and the one I found among so many was never a woman. But, see, this I did find: God made men plain ישר; but they have engaged in too much reasoning והמה בקשו חשבונות רבים.” (Ecclesiastes 7:23-29).
קהלת פרק ז פסוק כח
אֲשֶׁר עוֹד בִּקְשָׁה נַפְשִׁי וְלֹא מָצָאתִי אָדָם אֶחָד מֵאֶלֶף מָצָאתִי וְאִשָּׁה בְכָל אֵלֶּה לֹא מָצָאתִי:
מדרש זוטא - קהלת (בובר) קהלת פרק ז פסוק כח
אשר עוד בקשה נפשי ולא מצאתי אדם אחד מאלף מצאתי. בנוהג שבעולם אלף בני אדם נכנסין, ואין יוצא מהם אלא אחד. ד"א אדם אחד זה אברהם. ואשה בכל אלה לא מצאתי זו שרה. ד"א אדם אחד. זה עמרם. ואשה בכל אלה לא מצאתי זו יוכבד.
My theory. King Solomon must be reinterpreted here.. My proof: the Matriarchs and the women prophetesses.
"All this I tested with wisdom כל זה נסיתי בחכמה. I thought I could fathom it, but it eludes me. [The secret of] what happens is elusive and deep, deep down; who can discover it?"
ReplyDeleteFreud said the same thing _ about women.
Torah thought Zohar on the Eighth Day of Assembly:
ReplyDeleteSoncino Zohar, Vayikra, Section 3, Page 32a
“R. Hiya said: In reference to this day, it is written: And Isaac returned and dug the wells of water (Gen. XXVI, 18). Isaac (symbolizing Geburah), having sat on the Throne of Judgement on the first day of the seventh month, now pours might upon the Community of Israel to set the waters in motion. Hence all depends on the appropriate action (of taking the four species).On this day the idolatrous nations come to the end of their blessings and enter into judgement, and Israel come to the end of their punishments and enter into blessings. For on the next day (Eighth Day of Assembly) they are to rejoice in the King and to receive from Him blessings for all the year. This joy is reserved for Israel alone, and they are, as it were, the private guest of the king who can obtain any request which he makes. In reference to this it is written, “I love you, saith the Lord, and Esau I hate” (Mal. I, 2-3). Said R. Jose: ‘We see that Esau is prosperous and dominant, with great cities and wide power, and yet you say, And I have made his mountains desolate (Ibid. 3)? He replied: This is a frequent figure of speech. When the Holy King has pronounced a decree and placed it in his archives, the Scripture speaks of it as if it were already accomplished. And so with all the blessings which God has decreed for Israel, as it is written, I, the Lord, have spoken and done (Ezek. XVII, 24).”
I quote:“Abimelech then charged all the people, saying: Anyone who molests this man or his wife shall be put to death. Isaac sowed in that land and reaped a hundredfold the same year. The Lord blessed him and the man grew richer and richer until he was very wealthy: he acquired flocks and herds, and a large household, so that the Philistines envied him. Now all the wells which his father’s servants had dug in the days of his father Abraham, the Philistines had stopped them, and filled them with earth. And Abimelech said unto Isaac: Go away from us, for you have become too big for us כי עצמת ממנו מאד.’ So Isaac departed from there and encamped in the wadi of Gerar ויחן בנחל גרר, where he settled וישב שם. Isaac dug anew the wells which had been dug in the days of his father Abraham and which the Philistines had stopped up after Abraham’s death; and he gave them the same names that his father had called them.” (Genesis 26:11-18).
My theory. The USA socialist progressive Democrats, a total change, dark from light, from the Trump administration that supported the Abraham Accords, the American Embassy move to Jerusalem and constant praises to Netanyahu, staff (Republicans) sympathetic to Israel etc. This is like Abimelech at first good to Isaac, but then: “And Abimelech said unto Isaac: Go away from us.” In the Zohar, on the Eighth Day of Assembly, God will grant the Jewish people any request they make to God. Please, dear God, let the Jewish people prosper and become rich in the Land of Israel with no evil people attacking. Let the Messiah come speedily in our time.
Bravo Bennet’s speech in the UN! Allow me to add: “Deliver הושיעה and bless Your very own people; Tend them ורעם, and sustain ונשאם them forever.” (Palms 28-9). Oh, today SCOTUS is voting on my petitions. Dear God, they should vote yes. Thank you God.
ReplyDelete