Wednesday, December 2, 2015

Tamar Epstein's Heter: Should a special beis din be created to rule on its validity or should the focus be on investigating the rabbinic corruption and incompetence revealed in this case?

Guest Post

With regard to the proposed new beis din, it appears to me to be of extremely limited value for them to just determine whether or not the annulment was valid - although that is something that should be done.  The annulment is a total joke and everyone knows that.

It seems to me that what is needed is an investigation of so-called "rabbonim" who had a role in this matter over the last seven years, not just the psak.  It should include an investigation of what process they went through in making the psak and the other similarly reprehensible actions taken over the years, and what fact-finding if any was done by which "rabbonim" that would justify these actions.  It appears to me that there must be some type of reckoning as to whether it is appropriate for these individuals to have any leadership role as a posek, rav, or other type of communal leader.

This matter is not a matter of innocent mistakes, or people cutting a few corners.It appears to me that this involved the grossest possible incompetence at best, and more likely outright, knowing and  purposeful deceit, if not pure bribery and corruption. This behavior went on for years and years, including the most vile character assassination, not to mention a beating and attempted kidnapping that endangered the life of a child, which clearly constitutes a capital crime under Federal law.

This activity has created a massive chillul hashem and made a total mockery of Orthodox Judaism.  Given that the "rabbonim" deliberately made this matter into a huge public spectacle (such as articles in the New York Times, Washington Post, and demonstrations at the United States Congress), they had to have known that this "annulment" would become very public. 

So while it is true and important to show that the annulment was not valid and the resulting children would be mamzerim - but there is a much greater question that needs to be address. The larger question is about the apparent massive incompetence and corruption at the highest levels of so-called Orthodox leadership in the United States. Included in this is the silence of other's in leadership positions and why they ignored what everyone knows is true?   Failure to hold those rabbis who were involved in corrupting the halachic proces will just guarantee that similar or even worse episodes will happen in the future. Therefore this an opportunity for the Jewish community to do some long overdue housecleaning and rededication to halacha and truth.

35 comments :

  1. Lol, and who pray tell will the bet din consist of

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  2. Politically IncorrectDecember 2, 2015 at 9:04 PM

    Again, as I mentioned in last post, I am seeking people who want to actively (at any level) address this situation. People not intending to throw in the towel. ......but rather ready to pick up the gauntlet. ...

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  3. The problem is that there is a substantial number of people who to this day think all the illegal (under civil and halachik law) behavior is perfectly justified.

    You won't win them over with any bet din, with any 'godol', or anything of the sort.

    AF's most practical alternative, from a public service perspective, is to civilly sue the psychological experts, r goldfein, esq and TE/F for retaing ME and company to have him beaten up.

    However, AF is above all this. He apparently wants to keep all this quiet. That's his prerogative.

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  4. A few years ago, there was a dispute between a major NY etrog importer / distributor and his pardes (i think it was an issue of quality.) (I was not involved in this case.)

    The pardes refused any dayan except his baal haMachshir for his pardes. A clear an unequivocal conflict of interest. The baal haMachshir / dayan said its not a conflict.

    Huh???

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  5. With regard to the proposed new beis din,

    Proposed by whom?

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  6. Will he get the agudah behind it? No way the agudah will agree.

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  7. You can start voting through your pockets not giving a red cent at his speeches.

    The Members of the BD investigating this corruption should be:

    Rav Tabachim M. Epstein as GAV"AD

    umishnehu Sar HaProdim M. Wolmart RAV"AD

    Sam Kam BAV"AD Safra deDayna v'Networking

    RNG Baalei haskomes sefer M.Taus uMESADER KIDUSHIN

    RHS Baal haSMICHAS CHACHOMIM V'ZKEINIM Upoisek ORA veSHU"T dReb Akiva Eiger Dayan



    RHF Baal Hamachsir ubaal Hamafkia veOiker Horim Halacha leMoshe Misnai
    vetochnon Zu baZu umafkiron keafra lepumei - 15 shonim shimush.


    Baal Megaleh Ponim beTorah Beilum Shem Dayan


    Todus Haroife MD Mumche Godol Behilchos Toit Meshuge veshaar chalaas'n vecholeras aka as Goldf...


    Oisoi ve'es Bnoi Karate Expert


    veshaar yerokes aka Goon Squad A YOHR EIDUS

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  8. Count me in. Feel free to contact RDE for contact info.

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  9. R' Dovid Cohen- R' Yaakov Reisman....R'... Ummm...ummmm
    Sorry I'm out of trustworthy American Rabbonim.

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  10. Actually, Rabbi Hopfer could be the third Dayan, but he's too aidel to get involved in something like this

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  11. Still waiting to hear who the members of this special bet din will be, and what will there goals be
    BTW AF at this point is exempt from giving a get לכל הדיעות
    The only person who has standing to ask for one is TAMAR, and apparently she isn't asking for one, so rav AF dream of forcing him to give one is a pipe dream
    No way out for the Kaminetskys

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  12. this whole episode is so shameful. i just hope it wont get swept under the rug .

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  13. Politically IncorrectDecember 3, 2015 at 4:23 AM

    Does he know who you are if I just mention you as "Mr. Ploni"?

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  14. I wish them all the luck in the world, and G-d knows how desparately they can use every bit of it. Except for a very few, they are either all in it together and one mechapeh the other as shmor li ve'eshmor loch scratching each others back, or blackmailed into Omerte, not to disclose soides from cheider. See the alleged messira business going to the highest levels, while the innocent children are dying. The chutspa is so big that it ain't funny. Raglayim ledovor my foot, sheker ein lo raglayim, and they all hide behind this hole poked umbrella. Al kein I would recommend to churn out all protei protim right here on the blog ad nauseum, vedorashto vechokarto heteiv im emes venochoin hadovor, with sheva chakiros and sheva bdikos. Each time targeting the inconsistencies of the individual responsible for their mischief and display it all in front of the whole wide world exactly ORA's way. Let them have a taste of their own medicine. No one should get away with shifting the blame ton the other, just hammer it all the way to the end as to who did exactly what, until he screams Day Day Day. Nebach, the Argentinian husband asher lo haya velo nivra, lest the operation sting, he would by now have been chopped liver on toast good as dead meat, good to go. You want an open confession of who did the sleuth investigation, and if not, why not? We do NOT move on from there till every operator of this fiasco is nailed. If Joe Moe Dick and Larry doesn't delve into it, let them RESIGN. Take the RY of kamenits and demand from him, who taught Tamar about Mekach Taus, Savra veKiblah al tnay, Started packing for a whole three months al menas shelo lachzor. Tse ubasser lasussim vachamoirim. Yes, put him to task and without immunity and without flu shots. Veod kaheino vekaheino till he and all the rest of the batch have no place to hide and no place tor run. Rak kach umaklo yagid lo. The same goes for all the other players. Even if you cannot convene a Beis Din to corner them for lack of support high up, but at least you air it out in the sun, to hold them responsible. Invite all the Dayanim from Botei Dinim that signed on this mechoeh and Kol Kore to start firing Questions and pointing out shwindleries at these Asken Machers. Compile all the issues together and put it in front of the Big Honcho, veyomar haker Na.

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  15. These two names are too smart to get involved in a contentious din torah / bet din. They only take cases that both sides will comply. (Though RDC now has a problem with a publicly known case that he should have k )nown would be too controversial (big mossad and business manager.)

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  16. Ehud, r u in Brooklyn ? I'm in NY for a couple of weddings, would u like to meet

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  17. Wait what?
    Rav AF dream of forcing him to give a get? Please elaborate on this, I haven't heard of this before.

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  18. Politically IncorrectDecember 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM

    Okay, b'seder, will IY"H mention.
    Thank You

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  19. You're probably right- again showing the near uselessness of Beis Din.
    When one is needed, the smart guys avoid it, and only the corrupt guys like Feurst get involved.
    Although Feurst tells people to go to Ercaos all the time- he's got no scruples

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  20. He is dreaming of convincing AF of giving a get

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  21. Remember? Me Shimshon you Gazan. I would have met you in front of Carlebach Shul on his YZ the other thursday night right before your submaroon submerged into the depths in search of the Titanic. However, since I neither smoke nor inhale nor draggin, it would be unfair for you to blow my mind solo, you must blow it for ganz Klall Yisroel, keish echad ubelev achad and give them a concussion ad delo yada yemino lismolo. In a week or so we shall recover and surface with even more sensational soidos from meachorei hapargod. In any case, I have a much more advanced theory karov el haemet of what truly transpired, that will knock your socks off. What hapened to your translator HoAshdoidi?

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  22. Will be at hadar geulah tonight @ 10 for some cholent, will be in a grey hoodie

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  23. No need of being convinced. She, Tamar first needs a GET from current BOIEL, then comply with all AFr...'s conditions, then AF will gladly give all the GET she wants. BTW, at this point, she might have lost custody altogether.

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  24. Has nothing to do with custody

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  25. If she is a baalas chonte living in sin, AFr.. can object to her way of chinuch and such upbringing. Im hakol doshin baTamar kedveila, Istahar lav karka oilom hu, and it has consequences.

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  26. I thought the kiddushin was not chal? Why would she need a get from her znus partner?

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  27. The real שאלה is , if Tamar goes back to AF does she the become assur unto Adam, or is she not married to Adam, or is it a ספק קידושין since its a ספק מקח טעות, thereby a ספק אחד לבעל ואחד לבועל , but wait who's the בעל and who the בועל, I think the only one who can solve this one is the פייטן ר' אהוד
    All are Invited to hadar geulah tonight to discuss the matter over CCC cholent cugel and kishke @ 10pm

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  28. R' Yaakov Reisman had mud all over him the last time he got involved in a get beis din. Sort of caught being less than truthful.

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  29. The court won't have a problem with זנתה תמר, she has a civil divorce and can marry whom she likes

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  30. Since there was a Kidushin, and it is tofes in certain circumstances, not all- there needs to be a Get. Ovar al ma shekosav batorah ma sheasui asui, veteitze b'Get. Znus, is different, since he specifically was boiel leshem znus. I further think if Kidushin was with incest or family member it is not tofess. There is a nafka minei whether chayvei krissus or chayvei lavin. veidach zil ugmor

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  31. As far as custody is concerned and because of considerations of the child, many Judges send such cases to BD. Kvar hoyo dovor meolam

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  32. She IS having plenty problems with Beis Din Shel Maato and WILL have even more with Beis din shel M'alo, especially when kemishloish chadoshim ukreisoh bein shineho. Mamzeirimlach al haKilo R'L'.

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  33. U still draggin that stuff Silly, go back to filly or LeAza. Puff goes the dragon. Go bail out your Captain, his ship is sinking fast forward. Lakewood olecho, mekach! Yechi hatotach!

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