Two weeks ago, I rescinded my shul membership. The rabbi had made a
public statement against the use of halachic prenuptial agreements. For
me, he crossed a red line. I cannot identify with an institution whose
religious leader opposes rectifying one of the worst desecrations of
G-d’s name that currently plagues the Orthodox community.
Get recalcitrance is not only a
violation of Jewish law, but a form of domestic abuse in and of itself.
Domestic abuse is not just about black-and-blue marks, but about a
repeated assertion of power and control from one spouse over the other.
That is precisely what goes on when an estranged husband vindictively
and sadistically refuses to issue a get long after the marriage has proven to be irreconcilable.
We cannot stand idly by while such abuse is
perpetrated in our midst, and we cannot simply point fingers at others —
rabbis in particular — to “fix” the problem. Simple solutions are
rarely the cures for complex problems, and the agunah crisis is no
exception. However, while a comprehensive solution to the agunah crisis
may be beyond our grasp, there is one solution which has been extremely
effective in preventing this problem going forward, and it is in our
hands to implement: the halachic prenuptial agreement.
At the end of the day, we choose our rabbis,
our rabbis don’t choose us. We hire our shul rabbis. We are the ones who
vote them in and sign their contracts. It is up to us to make this a
red-line issue. We must hire rabbis who will not only encourage the use
of halachic prenups throughout the community, but insist upon their use
whenever they officiate. [...]
Jeremy,
ReplyDeleteI think you did the right thing by rescinding your shul membership and not attending anymore. Quite frankly I don't think this shul (or any shul for that matter) needs you or your treif gelt for membership as I am sure it is not machzik the kedusha of the Shul or its mispallelim.
You are a complete disgrace to the frum community (that you claim to be a member of) and the entire Jewish community at large. You and your organization ORA have pressured husbands to give gittin not in ordnance with Halacha in particular regarding the case of Aharon & Tamar Freidman.
The Baltimore Bies Din as well as most Gedolei Yisroel Has strongly condemned the anulment Tamar has recived. The Baltimore Bies Din in particular (which by the way is the only legal and authorized body to handle this case because of a signed Shtar Berurin) has fully apologized to Aharon in particular for the way he was treated. Yet you, your orginization and the Frundel Penthouse-Playboy "Rabbinical" Counvil of Greater Washington are silent?
Jeremy, you cannot have it both ways and unfortunately in the case either way you loose. If Tamar truly is still married to Aharon (which she is) then Aharon shouldn't be pressured to give a GET rather we should be pressuring Adam Fleischer to separate from Tamar. If the marriage was annulled (which it isn't its quite rare in Jewish law unless you have decided that you consult with the Catholic Church on these issues and not just with HaRav Hershel Shachter which would also mean you do not believe in Gittin all together) than he should also not be pressured because he is not upholding anything.
It seems to me and everyone who are True Torah Jews at this point that you and all of these other people I have listed really don't care about Halacha but rather about promoting your feministic agenda.
It is you who is responsible for this terribly atrocity and adulterous relationship that is taking place. It is you who has embarreseed someone publicly and destroyed his reputation and even tried making him loose his livelihood. I think the best stance for you and your organization to take is to fully apologize to Aharon for the way he was treated and to encourage the people of Silver Spring to let him back into the community. This will also encourage Aharon to give a GET and avoid mammzerus in klal Yisroel which is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
The gates of Teshuva are never closed and the door is waiting for you. The key to the door is to do the right thing and apologize. If a AV BIES DIN can I am sure you can as well.
Think about it.
I think we should rally at mt sinai to show our support for the rav.
ReplyDeleteIn ancient Egypt, the Egyptains dismissed Pharoh from his throne when he did not agree to enslave the Jews. After a couple of months, he buckled under pressure and reclaimed his throne.
ReplyDeleteHe then became the Pharoh that we knew, the one who agreed to enslave the Jews.
I would assume that some members of Jeremy's synagogue will follow Jeremy and cancel their membership to the synagogue. The Rabbi may then also buckle under pressure and begin to rewrite the ancient laws of Judaism to ready itself for the feminist of the 21st century.
Like the Reform, Mr. Stern believes in pick-and-choose "Judaism". If he doesn't like what the rabbi says or does then he does and says whatever he feels rather than follow his own rabbi.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you see which Rov/shul he is referring to? And which Rov and shul is he referring to?
ReplyDeleteConsidering that Barry Freundel was one of the strongest advocates of the prenup, I think the rabbi of the shul Mr. Jeremy Stern just left is saying "Good riddance"!
ReplyDeleteBTW, I came across this very interesting article that shows a connection between prenups, the Epstein-Freidman case and The Vaad Harabannim of Greater Washington with Barry Freundel as Vice President, http://joshyuter.com/2012/03/30/judaism/blame-rabbis-for-agunot-but-for-the-right-reasons/
I agree too. Jeremy's treif mindset,feminist views are disgusting and intolerable. I look forward for the day where Ora is out of business because all you promote is strife,hatred and breakups of marriages. I am personally aware of several Ora cases which could of resolved years Ago with a Get,but you and your organization refuse to negotiate because of your egotistic,sadistic and hard-line feminist views. I applaud the Rabbi who stood up to you and pled his allegiance to the Torah and not to your bully organization. In my opinion a reform shul is more in line with your views.perhaps one day you will join the reform Rabbi in declaring that homosexual marriage is allowed and surely both spouses will be glad to sign your antitorah prenup agreement
ReplyDeleteGood riddance Jeremy, go join the oo movement they would be happy to have you
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, we choose our rabbis, our rabbis don’t choose us. We hire our shul rabbis. We are the ones who vote them in and sign their contracts. It is up to us to make this a red-line issue.
ReplyDeleteYou can't make this stuff up. It is him who should dictate to his god - not Hashem to him, C"V.
And this teiereh tachshit is the one the K 's are working with hand-in-hand , tell me who your friends are and then I'll know who you are
ReplyDeleteWhere would this guy be without enemies?
ReplyDeleteApparently you are unhappy with the ways of our Torah, Halacha leMoshe MiSinai, Talmud, Shulchan Aruch, Botei Din Tsedek, Dayonei uPposkei haDor. We have our Torah going for over 2,000 years and it worked for almost all of us except for a very few to their liking. You don't like the ways of Hashem how he Shadchans Zivugim, you know better and are smarter. You can outsmart everyone, even the Rabbi of your shul. You walked out of your shul, and no one will miss you. You are playing with cherev pifiyos, what goes around comes around. I'Y'H it will come back to haunt you or your children and poof, your whole life of investment goes out the window, just because she thinks she can do better. The children will grow up like yesoimim ve'ein Av and so it goes. The chickens come home to roost.
ReplyDeleteFor such, you don't need your Bullhorn, just make a smooth exit. There have been smart people like you over 200 years ago, and did not like the Torah's ways as is, they started to mekatzetz binetios umchablim bakromim, slowly opening the doors for intermarriage, and today there is no zecher of them anymore. They call themselves Reform, Conservative, Progressive vechol minei sheimos hanirdofim leshimtsa. You can call yourself whatever you like, just get out of our face, Judaism has no use for you and your ilk. Let my people go, stop harassing my brothers, leave our 'balibte R' ARON' alone already, go lechol haruchot, and where the *shvartse feffer vakst*.
Stop breaking up orthodox Jewish families, break up homes that the fathers have toiled so hard, sacrificed so much in keeping it together, for their sake, for the sake of the tayere kinderlach. You even rob away the Yiddish nachas of the Grand parents. Stop being a spoiler. Just go away, take your bullhorn and shove it. You are not welcome to our religion. You are in CHEREM together with all the rest of the recalcitrant goons. Who knows, one day they might bludgeon you to death with a baseball bat in some NJ warehouse. Join the mengele epsteins. You are a despicable meatball outcast of our Jewish Society. You are anothing but a total disgrace. SHARY'A.
GOOD RIDDENS!!!
Very bored.
ReplyDelete....and perhaps also worried where his next meal will be coming from. ......
Shul rabbis are not equivalent to the deity.
ReplyDeleteMefarsmin osei mitzvah! Who is the rabbi?
ReplyDeleteFrankly following his train of thought he should really put up all the Torah to popular vote, instead of ever looking into a safer to issue a ruling he should he should really follow the money which always wins elections.It's called democracy,a form of government not religion
ReplyDeleteDear Mr. Stern,
ReplyDeleteI am somewhat confused regarding your objection to the Rabbi of the institution which you choose to forsake. You claim that the Rabbi made a
public statement against the use of halachic prenuptial agreements. You also imply that this Rabbi opposes rectifying one of the worst desecrations of
G-d’s name that currently plagues the Orthodox community.
Is it your position that the Rabbi made a declaration that he is against following all Halacha, e.g. he would insist that the public drive to Shul on Shabbos, or engage in other halachically prohibited behavior such as murder, fornication, idolatry, armed robbery or grand larceny? Or is it that this Rabbi selectively chose to oppose halachic prenuptial agreements while upholding the concept of halacha in general? If the latter, than it would beg the question as to why did the Rabbi choose to oppose halacha in the specific instance of prenuptial agreements. If the reason for this is that the Rabbi is unrepentantly sexist, has he exhibited such bias in the past. For example, does he speak disparagingly about woman in general or does he show disrespect to people because of their gender? If the Rabbi is motivated by such crass attitudes to the extent that he would violate Halacha, than certainly he deserves to be rebuked. In such case, I would be disappointed to learn that not many others have followed your lead.
However, there might just be another explanation for this Rabbi's seemingly bizarre behavior. It might be possible - now bear with me a moment - that the Rabbi is not at all opposed to the use of halachic prenuptial agreements. That's right, the Rabbi might actually be in SUPPORT of halachic prenuptial agreements. What the Rabbi might be against would be the prenuptial agreements that are halachically DEFICIENT. (Unfortunately, there is yet to be found a prenup that actually does the job and doesn't create more problems than it solves.)
Should the case be as above described than the Rabbi is in fact not opposing rectifying one of the worst desecrations of G-d’s name that currently plagues the Orthodox community. He is merely of the opinion that those agreements which you refer to as "halachic" is in fact not in accordance with halacha.
So what we have here is failure to communicate. You feel that the Rabbi ought to agree with your learned opinion that these agreements are halachically efficacious. But the Rabbi is stubborn in his insistence that the suggested prenups do not comply with halacha. The only question that remains is who knows the halacha better, you or the Rabbi.
Without having tested either you or the Rabbi, but considering your potential bias because of your association with ORA an organization that purports to comply with halacha but is in reality a place where halacha is honored more in the breach than in the observance, I'd put my money on the Rabbi.
For the record. Rabbi Perr also supported Rabbi Willigs prenup and got many poskim to at least agree that it won't make the get passul like some Israeli poskim held. On a different note I think Rabbi Jeremy should start his own Shul and see who joins if u know what I mean.
ReplyDeleteWith the multiple people ora has massered on, does he even count for a minyan, see rambam in hilchos nezakim
ReplyDeleteOO is the International symbol for Toilet, or Graf shel Reii
ReplyDeleteI'm happy for the shul
ReplyDeleteFornication, assault, and kidnapping is 100% allowed. After all, ''tamar is free'', taken down, but not publicly denied (though the criticism was done in public.)
ReplyDeleteThat exactly where he belongs
ReplyDeletemaybe he should start his own shul.
ReplyDeletenow THAT"S funny.
Shul rabbis are not equivalent to the deity.
ReplyDeleteYour point?
What is your definition of a rabbi - your political representative? The rabbi is the one who teaches you, and guides you in the Hashem's ways. A rabbi is not a person you dictate your personal issues, hobbies and feel-good activism to. A rabbi is not a person that you get to dictate your whims to, based upon unfinished emotional business.
I was thinking, perhaps the Avi Weiss women's minyan, or maybe JOFA affiliates. ....or maybe affiliates of the ORA rabbinical bored.......as in bored. ..
ReplyDeleteHe's in a very lucrative field, don't worry. But he's allowing all this baloney went to his head.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to his Kippah?
ReplyDeleteWonderful article, thanks for putting together! This is obviously one great post. Thanks for the valuable information and insights you have so provided here.
ReplyDeleteNew York prenup lawyer
Scratching my head at this one..... Not all devorced couples end up in court for months and years.... Many couples actually settle things like mentches.... Why is this such a huge deal??
ReplyDeleteFrom al toshes yodcho im rasha, he certainly doesn't count. Even his posek is now condemned, with all the false pshotim to be matir domon shel yisrael. Who ever heard of blufgeoning with a baseball bat a Yid to death? Besides, what makes this piece of trash think that one of these days these people he massered on and chased after in hot pursuit will not be mekayem mitzvas ka'asher zomam. When Hashem's wrath will be upon him, he will lick his wounds in solitude, but his victims will sing shira beibud reshoim rina all over the place.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that the comparison is very weak. The fact that a person might dismiss his rabbi's opinion does not turn him into an apikores. He's right about shul rabbis. In my experience, they rarely are a person's actual rebbi; more like a convenient person to pasken shul-type shaalos when they come up, and give a hopefully not too lengthy speech Shabbos morning. And it's true as well that they serve at the pleasure of the congregation, and that they are fired for all sorts of reasons, some amazingly frivolous. Very much unlike the Deity.
ReplyDeleteIn "in town" Chareidi shuls it seems highly unusual for a Rov to be fired. Especially by shteeble/chasidish rabbonim, but also very much so as well by Yeshivish/Litvish rabbonim. I can't speak how different it is "out of town".
ReplyDeleteWithout enemies, he's not in a lucrative field....
ReplyDeleteDoes Jeremy Stern daven in a chareidi shul? Somehow I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteOut-of-town Yeshivish Shuls do not fire their Rabbonim either.
ReplyDeleteAny idea what town Stern lives in?
ReplyDeleteMy point is that the comparison is very weak. The fact that a person might dismiss his rabbi's opinion does not turn him into an apikores. He's right about shul rabbis.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the straw man argument.
What is the roll of a "shul rabbi" - is it to be your puppet? Is it for you to decide the "halacha" - which the rabbi must accept from you? Are you advocating that the laymen decide halacha, which they dictate to their rabbi?
My idea: Upper West Side. ...Washington Heights YU area.......
ReplyDeleteThat would seem correct. I now recall a video of him on ORA's YouTube channel showing him harassing some guy in a YU minyan.
ReplyDeleteAny idea which shul he quit membership with? The rabbi deserves kudos.
Do any of the prenups include
ReplyDelete1)Waiving of alimony and community property in a divorce initiated by the wife?
2)Absolute guarantee of equal custody or at least visitation except in cases of clear child abuse proven in court?
3)50/50 child support?
4)Exclusive jurisdiction of Beis Din?
At least these, and probably much more are necessary to reinstate genuine Jewish marriage which sane men will be willing to risk entering.
(I don't know anything about the prenups in question; I'm just asking.)
What straw man argument? You compared his desire to dictate to his rabbi to dictating to Hashem. I don't see the comparison.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the role of a shul rabbi? In my experience, with some exceptions, a shul rabbi is a convenient person to have around when a minor shaaleh pops up during davening, and someone to say a nice vort in his Shabbos derashah, but not usually a person's moreh derech. Sometimes he's the person who started the shul and owns it. There are some very notable exceptions of course, but this is a pretty common scenario.
In less-chareidi places, the shul rabbi is hired by the people and is very often subject to their whims. It's a very political position, and he needs to walk carefully to keep his job. This is not exactly news.
Such relationships have a long history. There are many stories and teshuvos about disputes between townspeople and rabbonim in Europe and in America in the early years.
But regardless of all that, the jump from dictating to a rabbi to dictating to the Almighty makes no sense.
What straw man argument? You compared his desire to dictate to his rabbi to dictating to Hashem. I don't see the comparison.
ReplyDeletePlease. It is what he is dictating, and you know it. His rabbi understands that RCA prenuptials are impermissible by Hashem. But since Jeremy wants them, he feels he has a right to tell his rabbi to submit to Jeremy's whims and have the rabbi drop what the rabbi understands to be Hashem's will.
Did you understand what I wrote and choose to create a strawman? Will you do so again with this comment? Are there really teshuvas that say that laymen have a right to force their rabbis to violate halacha?
So on RYGB's Facebook group, some ORA and JOFA supporters asked people to confront their rabbis in the prenup and then send them their names and responses so a list could be compiled. This if just the sit across the bow and Jeremy stern needs a new cause. RYGB was very critical. He called it A Nixonian which hunt.
ReplyDeleteWhat you ask is only a fare question for all those trying to fix Mother Goose. In the same tradition, what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander, isn't it. What an Alma Deshikra.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is only in the Torah's ways, and as to why the Torah wanted it that way, omarti echkemo, vehi rechoka mimeno. For those that this pshat is not sufficient, I dare to say that Torah yorad lesof daato shel noshim da'aton kalos, that upon the drop of a hat, they will look to seek maybe they can do better, * shemo nosno eineho beAchar*, find a better money maker or whatever suits her fancy, without batting an eye for *The Children ma tehe alehem*? The children are crying, "Yesoimim hoyinu ve'ein Av". Where is Tatti? Why isn't he here to comfort us, to sit with us at the Shabbos table, to visit us in camp, to be us mechanech, the endless tears and cries, loi oleinu veloi aleichem. Maybe this was the Torah's way to makdim refuah before the makkeh. And yes, that's only fare for the children, for the Father, for Kedushas Yisroel, for holding Botei Yisroel together as one unit, and NOT to be going on an endless husband shopping spree to outsmart the Ribono shel Olam of what he suited you as your baSherte.
Look what happened to this poor TEE/F/F now on her way, G-d only knows - up to the third, and at the rate it's going, who knows, Kol mekadesh shvii R'L'. Therefore, listen to what the Torah says, vehi yimshol bach, and stop listening to this OCHER YISROEL J.S of ORA SHARY'A, in his quest of Leveling the Playing Field promising up Mother Goose with Golden Eggs. in any case, he i$ in it only for the money to retain his job. What a SAD SAD state of affairs. Poor TE/FF got caught holding the bag, with having two husbands, holding on to neither, no life, no doing any *Better*, no nothing, and nothing at all outside of grief R'L'. These people have duped you, swindled you out of funds for a bogus HETER, coached you to lie, and now to lie again. They don't know how to eat this, and are in the midst of shoveling it up, throwing the shovels at each other in a shovel exchange. Let the TRUE Gedoilei Yisroel Guide you in Hashem's way sand you WILL see the light. Amen ken yehi ratson.
Bingo, wake up and smell the coffee!
ReplyDeleteI wish. ORA *advertises* that they need a get initially guaranteed so the woman can immediately proceed in court. ...eizehu chutzpah!
I would kindly ask all those that have been wronged by there ORA goons to list here the names of all RESHAIM involved, so to treat them with their own medicine. On a future blog they can be mefarsem their ma'asei Rishus so that it should remain for doirei doros what they did, lediraon olam. You might even want to send it in to JOE ORLOW of ORAphA beilum shem. WE might possibly get the a Pulsa deNura, or at least a clear CHEREM, VESHAMTA, VEARRUR for them, so those trying to follow in their footsteps, to think again.
ReplyDeleteYou've clarified your position now.
ReplyDeleteI still disagree, though. He chooses to follow the RCA over his rabbi. He feels his rabbi should do the same. Why is that the same as fighting against Hashem ch"v?
Most shul rabbonim are very careful not to upset their congregants, for good reason.
ReplyDeleteI think it may be more a matter that in Chareidi circles congregants choose the shul not the rabbi. If a chareidi congregant doesn't like the shul he'll go elsewhere, but he has little influence on the employment of the shul rabbi. i.e. An Agudah shul doesn't give the congregants a vote on keeping the rabbi whereas a MO shul more typically has a lay Board that the congregants vote in that does the bidding of the lay membership.
ReplyDeleteHe is telling his rabbi Not to listen and follow what the rabbi sees as Hashems will.
ReplyDeleteJeremy, why don't you go blow and tell it to the marines?
ReplyDelete"Choosing the shul not the rabbi" supports my point that the rabbinic position is low-impact and not very significant in the eyes of the congregants. With regard to influence, it's true that individual members don't have much, but the rabbi does serve at the pleasure of the congregants. In MO shuls too, individual congregants don't have a lot of influence.
ReplyDelete