Some people think halacha is determined by applying the Torah to facts. The problem is the results sometimes go against what you want
Others always get the results they want by simply making up facts - in other words they provide false information
This reflects a fundamental question - Is halacha determined by what a posek says or what the Torah says?
Actually this post was about people who lie to poskim in order to get the answer they want claiming that once they get a psak that determines the truth.
The introduction to Igros Moshe says something very powerful that people don't fully appreciate - the posek molds realty through psak.
ReplyDeleteI bring the chicken to the rav. Might be kosher, might not be. Sure bet that in Heaven there's an answer but since He's not sharing, the posek has to come up with his own. When he does, reality is reshaped to accommodate the decision - if he says the chicken is kosher, then it doesn't matter if all the angels in Heaven say "wait, it's not!" That chicken is now kosher.
The answer to your question would then be: Halakha is determined by what the posek's view on what the Torah says is.
it is also something very false - psak does not shape reality, that is self delusional. and what if he disagrees with another posek? is it then quantum psak?
DeleteI would reformulate the question. Is a Posek supposed to answer the question that he's asked, or is the Posek supposed to fact check and investigate what the real Shaila is?
ReplyDeleteNot all poskim are in agreement. And there's not always an objective answer in the Torah. I refer you again to the psak on eggplant, 馃崋. Is it hoetz or haadamah? The CI suggests it can't be hoetz because it will never reach orlah. So depends on worldview of the poseq
ReplyDeleteSo there is a claim that those endowed with a certain quality such as Daat haTorah are actually at one with the Torah and can hence present the "Torah view" on any matter. The same club reject other scholars/poskim who don't have this so-called Daat Torah, and that their psak is not true or authoritative.
ReplyDeleteThe clear answer is halacha determined by what a posek says. See Ritva, Eruvin 13b about Eilu v'eilu - the Torah has many sides for mutar or asur, but the Halacha (psak) is whatever the Sanhedrin in each generation says.
ReplyDeleteIf people lie, the "truth" they desire does not exist, since the shaila that was asked does not match the facts.
in the case of error in dvar mishna the halacha is not like the posek or even the Sanhedrin
Deletethe error can be carried over however, so it might become established halacha. Then how can it be corrected later on if it is a diminished generation?
DeleteExample?
Deletewhat sort of example are you asking for? One that happened? One that is recorded in the Gemora?
DeleteI am saying it is hypothetical possibility, that an error might be carried over - and we no longer have sacrifices or a sanhedrin.
there are accusations by the Rambam against the Geonim that they made errors and were influenced by the Tsedukkim. That is as serious an example that i can think of.
In other words it apparently has never happened but you say it might be possible
DeleteWhere is the guarantee that if it does happen it will be found out next day?
Delete