Monday, February 23, 2015

Maaneh Center of Beit Shemesh: The proper way to deal with child abuse

Rabbi Shmuel Z. Eidensohn
update Feb 23: Added comments below - from Shana Aaronson - Magen's Social Services Coordinator - about relationship of Maaneh to - Magen

Yesterday Dr. Baruch Shulem and I went to visit the Maaneh Center in Beit Shemesh. The founder and chairman of the center is my nephew , Rabbi Shmuel Zalman Eidensohn. Aside from the center he also runs the major tzedaka organization  for the chareidi community in Beit Shemesh and is a recognized master educator supervising four schools - one of which is in Switzerland. He invited us to get to see the center which has been operating for several years and to discuss the approach of the Maaneh Center with himself and the director Rabbi Aryeh Levi.

When people think about the mishandling of child abuse - there are two names that automatically come to mind - the Catholic Church and Orthodox Jews. This has been reinforced in the last few weeks for all of us who have been following the horrifying news from Australia where the Royal Commission has revealed serious lapses of moral, legal and commonsense judgments of the Orthodox community leadership in dealing with child abuse. In addition to the nasty campaign against the Waks family for courageously fighting to protect children from abuse.

One solution is a call to carefully keep the laws of mandated reporting. Others add that it is important to eliminate the statute of limitations so that even 50 years after a teenage boy molests one of his friends - he can be tried and sent to jail even if it were a one time occurrence. There are calls for harsh punishment, public embarrassment in the media and even castration. 

But others point out that a zero tolerance approach which relies solely on the justice system runs into the problem that the police often do nothing about the problem - either because no one will press charges or testify or they handle the matter in an insensitive manner or many times don't take the complaints seriously. Most of those charged are not convicted and even if convicted of serious and repeated abuse - get relatively light sentences of 5-8 years and then they are back in the community again until they are caught molesting another child. Thus relying on the criminal justice system doesn't provide a comprehensive high level of protection - but it is clearly better than nothing.

On the other hand we hear cries from the family of the victim not to harm their son/daughter by insisting on reporting the crime to the police and forcing their 10 year old to be destroyed through cross examination and the negative reputation that  will be carried for the rest of his/her life. People ask why should the family - of not only the victim but of the perpetrator - have to suffer from the victim going to the police. As a result of this realistic fear of collateral damage, many cases of abuse are not reported and the perpetrator continues harming others. Thus protection for the victim or punishment for the perpetrator - often comes at great cost to innocent others. 

As a result there are calls for the community to handle the problem internally - in particular that rabbis should investigate and prescribe solutions. Unfortunately rabbis are typically incompetent in this area or don't have the time to check out facts. In addition they have no legal powers to require testimony or enforce judgments. All this is has been frequently been reported on this blog. Besides incompetents there is another perhaps more serious problem. Associated with the community based approach we hear of victims who never recover from the betrayal when family and rabbis either don't believe them when they report that their teacher or uncle molested them or they are told to remain silent for the good of shidduchim or the community or yeshiva name.

Finally in addition to the problem of dealing with real crimes we have a serious problem of false accusations. We hear cases of teachers or neighbors whose lives have been destroyed by false accusations. We hear of communities that in their mortal fear of child abuse - misinterpret the words and behavior of children - make serious accusations against the innocent. It is critical that false accusations need to be avoided while genuine accusation need to lead to protection and healing.

So what is the solution. The secular laws and enforcement agency are severely limited in how and what they do. They are often insensitive or ignorant about working with victims and the community to maximize protection and punishment while minimizing collateral damage. This is especially true when the community of Orthodox Jews is basically an alien world for secular and non-Orthodox. But the secular bodies are the only ones who have the power to do anything. On the other hand members of the community including rabbis, teachers are much more aware of what is needed to minimize collateral damage - but lacking power often they push for covering up the crimes as the best way to avoid collateral damage which they often view as worse than the abuse itself. Additionally how the problem is handled for Satmar chassidim is not that which works for the Religious Zionists. Similarly what works for  secular Jews will not work for recent olim from America or Russia. Thus a mechanical solution is not good. Rather each case needs an individualized solution - tailor made for it from the range of resources.

In a 75 minute frank discussion, we heard of how the center successfully works together with the police and government social agencies to carefully investigate all charges to ascertain not only if they are true but also precisely what has happened. Furthermore false accusations are not rare. But at the same time there is an active integration with the community leaders - daas Torah - as well was teachers and principals. This gives the families the security of knowing that they are doing the right thing and leads to greater cooperation with the secular authorities. This gives the police and legal system much greater flexibility in not only protecting the victim but also punishing and rehabilitating the perpetrators - with the minimum collateral damage to others. 

In short we were impressed that the Center has genuinely succeeded in a creating a synergy of the different components - secular agencies, law enforcement and judicial bodies, rabbinical authorities, community, family - so each is able to contribute maximally in an integrated approach which is clearly a win-win approach. The Maaneh Center provides its services to all members of the Beit Shemesh community not just the chareidi population.

David Morris
From Shana Aaronson - Magen's Social Service Coordinator:- Magen

I'd like to offer some clarifications as to the difference between Maane and Magen, at least as I understand them, which perhaps may be helpful to readers who are unclear.

First, Maane is a therapeutic treatment center for children, working primarily with victims of abuse, but also with other childhood issues. On a personal level, for example, when my 6 year old was struggling with some social anxiety, his pediatrician recommended Maane as a resource where I might find a suitable therapist. Magen, on the other hand, is a child protection organization. We provide 1- educational events and resources, 2- a 24 hour hotline for inquiries and assistance, 3- short and long term support and guidance for victims and survivors (which includes (but is not limited to), as Rav Eidenson said, referrals for individual and group therapy, support and guidance through the reporting process and trial, as well as assistance in finding any other forms of assistance they may need (Rabbanim, educational programs, other organizations etc) 4- management of cases of known or alleged perpetrators where a risk is posed to the Jewish community (eg warning the community when a known offender has moved into the neighborhood).

Second, Maane serves the population of Bet Shemesh (and Ramat Bet Shemesh) exclusively, while Magen caters to clients from all over Israel, who are seeking information, resources, referrals or support in this area. As well, Magen offers assistance to victims and survivors in situations where there is an international component (ie the victim or perpetrator has moved, or the actual abuse happened elsewhere) working with organizations and authorities from other countries to provide needed resources to survivors.

There is, in practice, very little overlap between the functioning of the two organizations, with, I believe, much room present for joint work. In my capacity as social services coordinator for Magen, I have referred several clients to Maane for therapy there has been professional consultations between the two organizations as well.

As well, while there certainly appears to be ideological differences between the two organizations where it comes to reporting, I suspect that in practice, the differences are not quite as vast. Magen, Maane, and all other responsible profssional agencies, will follow the laws of chovat divuach (mandated reporting) wherever it applies, including in the unfortunate cases where it goes against the families wishes. Obviously Magen, and I assume Maane, do our best to help make the process as smooth and painless for the family.

I suspect that the cases where differences in reporting policies may be more apparent are those where the mandated reporting laws do not apply. I can only speak for Magen in saying that, in the event that a client wishes to bring a formal complaint to the authorities, Magen will always make every effort to support any victim through the reporting process and trial, which as anyone involved with this field knows, can be long and difficult. Of course, I cannot speak for Maane's policy in those cases.

Another assumed difference is the hashkafic background of each organizations respective clientele; many assume Magen caters exclusively to the Dati-leumi community while Maane caters to the Chareidi community. In practice, approximately 60% of Magen's clients identify as Chareidi and as Rav Eideson mentioned above (and I admit I was pleasantly surprised to hear-I was not previously aware) Maane caters to clients from outside of the chareidi community as well.

On a more mundane note, as a social services agency, Magen does not charge for its services, while Maane does charge for its therapeutic counseling services. There may be subsidies available, and I am not aware whether or not they charge for consultation.[Maane does provide subsidies - the exact nature needs to be clarified with the staff DT]

On a personal level, as a young mother raising children in Ramat Bet Shemesh, I am pleased to live in a city that takes this issue seriously enough that there are not one, but two (albeit very different) organizations equipped to address the issue of child safety and protection. I hope that the above offers a bit of clarification, with hopes that no reader will ever require the services of either organization!


  1. How does the Center deal with or determine Raglayim L'Davar and/or asking a posek a shaila regarding a particular situation?

  2. They are useless and do nothing. I know this from personal experience.

  3. @moe - each case is handled differently depending on the factors involved. Each case is carefully interviewed. Depending on whether they want to file charges or avoid it. Whether they have a clear idea of what they want from treatment or they want to be told be a rabbi what is best. The results will differ. If a child comes and says his teacher is molesting him - then the school will be alerted to ascertain whether this in fact is possibly true. If it seems to be true and someone is willing file a complaint then the police are involved and conduct an investigation. Sometimes the police are contacted about abuse but they don't take the charges seriously or they simply don't investigate - then the burden is on the school and the community to provide the protection.

    I heard the following story from by brother-in-law who is a principal in America which illustrates the consequences of education about abuse. There was a student who was always causing trouble. One day the student asked permission to go the bathroom. The rebbe gave him permission. Half an hour later the student hadn't returned to the class. Normally in the good old days - the rebbe would simply go the bathroom and tell the student to return to class. But since this rebbe had heard lectures about abuse - his first step was to go to the principal and ask him to go with him to the bathroom. They found the boy in the bathroom and told him to go back to class.

    The next day the principal got a call from the boy's father saying that his son claimed the rebbe had sexually assaulted him in the bathroom. The principal simple said, "I was there and no such thing happened."
    But what if he hadn't accompanied the teacher?

    In a recent incident in Jerusalem, I was told that based on unclear accusations - a school run by extremely insular chassidim installed security cameras all over the school. This was after the police had been contacted and said there was insufficient evidence to take the case seriously.

    Bottom line, we are clearly moving away from the time when abuse accusations had to be witnessed by two people before they were even considered and that only if rape had occurred. Now it is more likely that any reasonable claim will be taken seriously. It is also more likely that any concerns will be taken to a rav who is both knowledgable about the problem and consults with experienced mental health professions and has some connection with the police.

  4. "Depending on whether they want to file charges or avoid it."

    My understanding of your position, from reading here extensively, is that police should be contacted in all situations - not that the school should decide whether or not to call the authorities. Am I misunderstanding your position or does the Center take a different approach than yourself in regards to contacting secular authorities?

  5. Such simple solutions this comment suggests.

    (1) No teacher should be isolated with student. (2) Video surveillance.

    Those two steps, I would guess, if universally implemented,,would eliminate most abuse by teachers.

    No police. No judges. No social workers. No Batei Din. No internet exposés. No training seminars. The savings in terms of money, time, effort, would be huge. Enough to put the whole school abuse cottage industry -- composed of those who counsel students subjected to abuse -- almost out of business.

    May I also suggest that teachers, and students if they choose, have the option of wearing GoPro cameras?

    In a few years, if the abuse is eliminated, we could discuss the issues of privacy inherent in the extreme step of recording a teacher's every move, and fine tune the solutions.

  6. Based on the outline of the incident where the student accused the teacher, there is an alternative way of interpreting the scenario.

    Say the teacher did abuse the boy. Then the teacher went and got the principal to accompany him to extract the boy.

    A GoPro with time stamp would snuff out such a hypothesis.

  7. @ Moe - the center deals with a wide range of population which is the nature of Beit Shemesh. If the parents refuse to file a complaint or refuse to allow their child to testify or the police don't think there is adequate evidence - the police can't do anything.

    In a currently developing possibly major abuse scandal - the police were contacted and claimed that there was insufficient evidence to justify doing anything. If the police don't want to get involved does that exempt the school from doing anything?

    So yes - I think the police should be involved. But even the police are not a monolithic entity. In Boro Park I was told by a NY City policeman that one should never report abuse to the local precinct because the usually coverup the problem.

    There are some communities that have very good working relationship with the police department while others have a very antagonistic one.

    As a general rule one should deal only with the special sex abuse squad which is trained to deal with these problem or with specially trained social agencies.

  8. When people think about the mishandling of child abuse - there are two
    names that automatically come to mind - the Catholic Church and Orthodox

    And Muslims. And the British police. Have you not heard of Rotherham?
    I have no doubt there are many other Rotherhams taking place in the EU.

  9. @Kishkeyum - I doubt there are many Americans who think about Rotherham or Muslims or the EU when they think about the mishandling of child abuse

  10. I doubt there are many Americans who think about Orthodox Jews when they think about the mishandling of child abuse.

  11. @Moe - I guess you skipped the newspaper articles, television reports, internet postings which have described child abuse done by Orthodox Jews.

    You might want to start with the 2006 article in New York Magazine entitled "Do Orthodox Jews have a Catholic priest problem?"

    You might also want to read the comments to these items where it is obvious that American's don't view the abuse and coverups as a rare event or not involving rabbinic and community leadership

  12. NY Mag has a decades long history of printing Orthodox Jewry in a bad light. They aren't a good example nor are their readership and internet commentators. They are hardly representative of Americana. The average American on the street, whereas he will have heard about the Catholic priest sex scandals, will not know anything about any Orthodox Jewish issues with sex abuse. If you stopped ten random American non-Jews you might find one who heard something.

  13. How does this integrate with the activities of Magen in Beit Shemesh

  14. @ Moe - why don't you take a survey - I disagree with you regarding what the results will be

  15. If Maaneh is careful to manage the situation without causing untold harm and shame to the other victims of the predator: his children - then I'm impressed. If their efforts don't take this into account and cause his own children unimaginable amounts of pain, then their efforts are not much better than those of all the other advocates who are very selective in which victims they care about.
    The true test of an advocate is someone who doesn't cause additional victims in his zeal to protect the existing victims. Sadly, most advocates don't pass this basic test and that is testimony to their real agenda which often isn't altruistic.

  16. I doubt the average American gentile could explain the difference between an Orthodox Jew and a non-Orthodox Jew.

  17. @David - you should be impressed. Yes they are very careful to minimize pain to the innocent even the children of the predator.

    They are not advocates - which typically means championing one side. They are therapist and problem solvers that are working for the maximal solution for everyone. It is not a competitive scheme but one that tries to take in the needs of all the parties.

  18. @Moe - they might not be able to explain it but they are aware - especially concerning the chassidim and the those that wear hats all the time and tend to have beards etc etc

    Again just read the comments to an article about an Orthodox molester or crook

  19. They know certain Jews dress very traditional. I doubt they know how to define them with names. They certainly couldn't explain to you the difference between a Modern Orthodox Jew and a Gerrer chosid, other than the first Orthodox Jew dresses American and the second Orthodox Jew dresses in religious garb. When a gentile reads a story about Orthodox Jews, they know little difference between an MO Jew (Sheldon Silver, Baruch Lanner, Barry Freundel, etc.) or a Chareidi Jew or a Reform or Conservative Rabbi.

    Do you know the differences between the various Amish sects? Probably not. But there are relatively substantial differences between one Amish sect and another. The average American probably doesn't even know there is more than one type of Amish. Without looking it up you probably don't know the difference between an Episcopal, a Baptist and a Methodist. And those are some of the largest religions in the U.S.

    Regarding comments, they are far from representative of anything. Anytime the mainstream media has ANY story about Orthodox Jews, say a story about a contentious Gett/divorce fight, there's always dozens of internet commentators saying how those awful Orthodox are no different than the Muslim fundamentalists who commit "honor killings" of their daughters or blow up people. Internet comments represent the lowest common denominator.

  20. @Moe - you have your impressions - and I have mine.We don't agree and you have presented no actual evidence to convince me that are right and I am wrong.

  21. Not sure what you mean integrate? Magen takes a different approach. The two are aware of each other and talk to each other.

  22. The problem with your comment is that it distracts from one basic truth: It is the predator who is harming his wife/children; not those who expose his crimes. Would you ever suggest that a murderer should not be exposed because his children will suffer humiliation? In fact, it is not unreasonable to think that awareness that the community will go to great lengths to avoid "causing untold harm and shame to the other victims of the predator: his children," may be a contributing factor to the abuse in the first place. If it was well-known that abusers would suffer public outings, regardless of the impact on their families, it may cause some of them to act otherwise.

  23. I mean avoid dividing scarce resources, avoid competing for 'custom', directing people to the other organisation when appropriate for the individual, avoid criticising the other etc. Those kind of things. Basically everything needed to avoid the P word (politics, that is.)

  24. @BB I am not aware of any antagonism or competition between the organization. They simply have different legitimate paradigms.They both provide a valuable service to the community.

    If David Morris of Magen wants to make a guest post describing his organization and any errors I have made describing his organization - I would welcome it.

    My limited understanding is that Magen is an advocacy group for victims. Consequently if there are rumors or allegations the side of the purported victim is automatic. There is consequently not such concern about false accusation and collateral damage for Magen as there is for Maaneh.

    Magen provides a list of approved therapist - but he therapist are not employees of Magen. In contrast
    Maaneh has its own staff of therapists Thus Maaneh has much greater integration with the diverse communites of Beit Shemesh as well as secular authorities. It thus has greater control over the process from beginning to end. It is in a position to have rabbis or community leaders pressure families to cooperate - but then it is more vulnerable to the rabbis or community leaders pressuring not to cooperate.

    For Maaneh most of their cases - the parents do not want to report the case to the police. But they do want their children protected, to receive therapy and the perpetrator removed.

    Maaneh is focused on the maximal that is possible to achieve for the victims, family, school and community. It is flexible in its approach and each case is treated according to the salient factors. It thus is much more sensitive to voice of the community then is Magen

    In contrast Magen takes for granted that the perpetrator should be sent to jail and publicly shamed . Its job is to help remove the perpetrator and have him punished.

    Thus Magen has a narrower focus on the perpetrator and victim while Maaneh has a broad focus on the full range of elements and tries to minimize damage to all involved as well as maximize the healing.

    Magen is primarily concerned with the strict letter of the law in terms of punishment for the crime while Maaneh is more focused on maximizing what is possible to achieve in the real world. It is not uncommon when pushing for reporting to the police and a public trial you lose the cooperation of the family.

    They both provide advice and community awareness programs

  25. Yehoshua,

    Respectfully, I believe you're terribly mistaken. The predator is certainly harming his family by his actions, but the harm is compounded manifold by irresponsible efforts to publicly shame him into oblivion.
    We're no longer fighting the battle of whether we need to tackle predators and stop them in their tracks. That's something that most everyone agrees with. Sweeping things under the carpet is not an option. But hopefully we've also matured and realized that widespread public shaming is also unhelpful for multiple reasons:
    1 - It deters victims from pursuing action because inevitably they will suffer shame and harm once their identity becomes public and because not all victims want to publicly shame a predator. Remember - Many predators are family members and the price of causing the shaming is very high.
    2 - It harms children of the predator needlessly. Predators are not generally good people. Typically their family members have suffered a lot at their hands already. To add insult to injury, they now have to suffer the worst shame imaginable.

    I imagine you haven't suffered this shame in your life and that's why you're so quick to advocate for it. Perhaps speak to some victims of this sort of abuse and you'll see the other side. Helping a victim should never come at the expense of creating other victims.

  26. That's very heartening news. If this is indeed the case, I can totally appreciate what their doing and wish them success. May they serve as a model of how to properly tackle this very sensitive and worthwhile issue.

  27. David Morris's organization is automatically on the side of the alleged victim and they've done enormous harm to innocent people in their zeal to advocate. No thanks.

  28. If it is true that we are "no longer fighting the battle of whether we need to tackle predators and stop them in their tracks" and that "sweeping things under the carpet is not an option," I would be very encouraged, and perhaps would agree with you. However, and I defer to those more knowledgeable than I with regard to this, my impression is that this is not the case. As a parent of children ages 1 to 16, I have heard, over the years, things like "tell your kids to be careful," without being able to get any more specific information. If the only issue is past victims vs. family of predator, then one could make these calculations. I was referring more to situations where not outing the predator could least to more victims being harmed in the future.

  29. Yehoshua,

    I'm not saying that there aren't occasions where there's no choice but to out the predator because otherwise there are sure to be more victims. That is an option when there is no other choice.
    I'm talking about many cases where no efforts whatsoever were made to preserve the dignity of his family and mass shaming was the method of choice. Do you really think that every alleged or confirmed predator who merits headlines on this site and many others like FM, FF, UOJ, Harry M. needed to shamed on an international level? Was that really the only way? Is it really necessary for every person in Miami Beach to know that so and so in Chile is alleged to be a predator - information that will haunt his children and similarly named relatives for eternity and do nothing for the good folks in Miami and Texas?
    At least Rabbi Eisensohn is interested in the truth and will defend the accused if the evidence points in that direction but he's the only one to do so and he takes a lot of flack for it.

    This is דיני נפשות we're discussing and at a minimum, we owe it to family members to ensure that we will do nothing that is warranted and hurt them needlessly.

  30. I will direct your question back at you": Do you think it is important that people in Har Nof know that a predator from New York has moved there. Do you think it is important for the people of Israel to be aware that a predator from Manchester has fled there? If you have a way to target the information only to those for whom it will be relevant, while leaving everyone else in the dark, I would like to hear it. Until then, I say err on the side of protecting potential victims.

  31. "If the only issue is past victims vs. family of predator, then one could make these calculations."

    No, past victims deserve to be allowed to tell the truth (in public) and they deserve that the truth is aknoledged.

    If hareidi society tends to punish family members rather than the criminal himself, it is hareidi society that should do some soul-searching and check whether they are indeed as holy as they think they are.

  32. Children are not responsible for the deeds of their parents, and if hareidi society treats them as if they were responsible, something is amiss in hareidi society.

    But this is definitly no reason to keep the names of the predators secret.

  33. I agree with you 100%. I did not say that in that calculation, the result would be to hush things up; only that the possibility of such a calculation could be raised only if there is no potential future danger.

  34. Nice post about Maaneh. (Not that I agree with a lot of what you wrote!).

    Your description of Magen is indeed rather inaccurate.

    I appreciate your offer to provide a platform for me to write an article about Magen.

    However, rather than me write an advertorial about Magen (which will have no credibility for being objective!) - I hereby cordially invite yourself and Dr Baruch Shulem to visit Magen in Beit Shemesh.

  35. Yes - it's important for Har Nof'ers to know about a predator that moved in from NY. Same for Manchester. However, that can be accomplished without plastering that information all over the internet for every single person in the world to know about. There are far more effective methods of disseminating this information locally in Har Nof which would spare the family a large measure of the shame and still protect the children of Har Nof.
    It's been done many times and continues to be done by responsible people. There are signs that go up, responsible people in positions of power who are spoken to, messages posted on the Har Nof internet board etc. The Har Nof'ers will be well-protected and his children don't have to bear his burden for the rest of their lives.
    Just imagine you were one of his children - would you not want those methods tried first?

  36. Like I said - you're only interested in the welfare of some victims, not others. No thanks.

  37. "No, past victims deserve to be allowed to tell the truth (in public) and they deserve that the truth is aknoledged."

    Where does it say that they must tell the truth in public in a forum that will cause untold damage to other innocent children? What cathartic value does that even have?


    This has nothing to do with Haredi society - it's human nature and you're unwillingness to acknowledge this simple fact and your desire to cause additional victims is why so many in the field are hesitant to share information or trust the "advocates."

  38. Even the average secular American Jew would be hard-pressed to tell the difference, and I speak from personal experience with such people.

  39. so the children shoulld change name if they are ashamed of their father.
    You cannot build their happiness on shutting up the victims. Truth should be told!!!

  40. What do you have to do with your father? You can distance yourself from his actions, and if you do not follow his steps, no-one should hold YOU accountable for what he did. IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!!!

    If there are people out there who cannot understand that, keep away from them, they are bad people.

    But, on the other hand, if someone just wants to know your stance on your father's criminal acts, that's a legitimate question to ask.

    I think you have to learn to differentiate between those two.

  41. Actually, the Har Nof rabbanim did not allow it to be posted on the local internet board.

  42. Spoken by the guy who wouldn't use his own name!

  43. @Yehoshua - what was the reason? was it because they didn't want it publicized or were they concerned with possible legal ramifications since he hadn't violated any Israeli laws?

  44. If you don't know the reason for their objection then it is hard to cite that as relevant to the discusion

  45. Actually, it is relevant. It is another demonstration of people whose only option, if they want to protect the innocent, is to publicly disseminate the information, despite the fact that this may lead to greater shame for the family of the predator.

  46. @QO: Do you get out in the real world now and then? I'm guessing not.

  47. Proof that you have to be an idiot to get into chinuch.

  48. Not sure what you mean, but if you mean the risk to a teacher in teaching outweighs the benefits of teaching, I would disagree. Teaching is very rewarding: "I learned the most from my students". Like any profession, basic precautions must be taken. Every teacher needs to have a good attorney who will immediately go on the offensive if the teacher is falsely maligned. And every teacher has to have a good code of conduct they adhere to: not touching students, not being isolated with students, and so on. And finally, I would suggest that every teacher keep a record of ambiguous interactions with students, either a written record, or a video record. For example, I am a follower of Rabbi Immanuel Ravad. He says that the way to teach youngsters about the Mitzvos connected with the Mikva is to get them involved in Tevilas Kelim. So, a teacher taking students to a Kelim Mikva that is indoors and in a private setting would want to make sure that he, the teacher, has a record of the activity at the Mikva that is evidence of the teacher's intent and that has a timeline of what occurred there.


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