Wednesday, February 26, 2020

Loving wife children and master - slavery


The only clear expression that a wife is loved is

שמות פרק כא פסוק ה
וְאִם־אָמֹ֤ר יֹאמַר֙ הָעֶ֔בֶד אָהַ֙בְתִּי֙ אֶת־אֲדֹנִ֔י אֶת־אִשְׁתִּ֖י וְאֶת־בָּנָ֑י לֹ֥א אֵצֵ֖א חָפְשִֽׁי: 
 a jewish thief sold into slavery
if he is married to a Jewish woman his master can give him a non jewish slave to breed other slaves
after 6 years if he declares he loves his master his non Jewish partner ans non Jewish children 
he can remain as a slave  with this master partner and children

why is there no place where the Torah talks about a man loving his Jewish wife and children?!

could not find any discussion in the commentaries!


Yevamos(62b): Our Rabbis taught: Concerning a man who loves his wife as himself, who honours her more than himself, who guides his sons and daughters in the right path and arranges for them to be married near the period of their puberty, Scripture says, And thou shalt know that thy tent is in peace.49 
 according to Ramban is a Rabbinic decree


Rambam(Hilchos Ishus 15:19): And thus our Sages commanded that a man should honor his wife more than himself and love him as himself. If he has money he should increase her welfare according to the money. Furthermore he should not place too much fear on her and he should speak with her pleasantly and he should not be sad or angry.




Making of a Gadol (page 819) Yehiel-Yankev's talmid R' Pinhas Biberfeld: When the Alter tried to convince R' Weinberg not to separate from his wife, he responded, "Where is the drugstore which sells a potion for love?" It may be assumed that R' Weinberg's purpose in repeating this conversation to his talmid was to convey this very idea - that by making the attempt to get him to stay with his wife, the Alter had demonstrated that he did not grasp what degree of compatibility was expected between couples in the new times. Even the extreme forbearance that the Alter knew R' Weinberg was possessed of could not hold a relatively modem marriage together. 

רש"ר הירש בראשית פרק כד פסוק סז
(סז) אף זו תכונה, אשר, ברוך ה', לא ניטשטשה בזרע אברהם ושרה, יצחק ורבקה! ככל שהוסיפה להיות אשתו, כן גדלה אהבתו! כדוגמת נישואין אלה של הבן היהודי הראשון, כן נוסדים הנישואין, רוב הנישואין בישראל, לא על יסוד התשוקה, אלא על פי שיקול התבונה. הורים וקרובים נמלכים בעצמם, אם הצעירים מתאימים זה לזו; משום כך גוברת האהבה, ככל שהם מרבים להתודע זה לזו. אך רוב הנישואין בעולם הלא - יהודי נגמרים על - פי מה שהם קוראים "אהבה", ואין לו לאדם אלא להציץ בתיאורי הנובילות הלקוחים מהחיים, כדי להיוכח מיד, מה רבה שם התהום בין ה"אהבה" שלפני הנישואין לבין זו שלאחריהם, איך הכל אחר - כך תפל וחסר טעם, מה שונה הכל מתיאור הדמיון, וכו'. "אהבה" זו היתה עוורת, ועל כל שעל בעתיד - אכזבה; לא כן הנישואין בישראל, שעליהם הוא אומר: ויקח את רבקה ותהי לו לאשה ויאהבה! שם החתונה איננה שיא הפריחה, אלא השורש לאהבה!


Orchos Tzadikim(Shaar 5 – Love): The love of women should be in the following manner. He should think that she is saving him from sin, and keeping him distant from adultery and through her he is fulfilling the mitzva of having children, and she raises his children, and she works for him the entire day, and she prepares food and other needs of the household. Because of her activities he is free to learn Torah and to be involved in other mitzvos. She is helping him to serve G‑d.




Kedushas Levi(Bereishis 224:67): And Yitzchok brought her into his mother’s tent and she became his wife and he loved her. What was the reason that the Torah tells us that Yitzchok loved Rivkah? A possible answer is based on the fact that there are two types of love a man has for a woman. The first type is the physical lust that a man has for a woman because he wants to satisfy his desires. Because this type of love is solely concerned with what he wants,  it is actually not love for the woman at all but entirely love of himself. The second type is the love which is not concerned with satisfying his physical lusts but rather is because she is an instrument that enables him to fulfill the commands of his Creator – thus he loves her just as he loves the other mitzvos. This is called love of his wife. That is the meaning of “And Yitzchok loved her.” He had no thoughts regarding physical lust but only loved her because she enabled him to fulfill the mitzvos of G‑d.




Netziv(Bereishis 24:64): And Rivkah lifted her eyes – and she saw Yitzchok while he was still praying and he was at that moment like an angel of G‑d – extremely awesome. and she fell off her camel – Because of her great fear and awe. However she did not know who she was afraid of. If she had been sitting with Eliezer the servant on the same camel and she had been sitting behind him then she would have relaxed when she would have seen the man go and greet the servant and seen them talking together like all men. Then eventually when she would have been informed who it was – her fear would already have dissipated. But since she was sitting together with Eliezer she didn’t wait – but asked immediately who it was out of great fear. Who is that man - that makes me agitated and frightened? We see in Bereishis Rabbah that the term “that” implies someone fearsome and frightening. Therefore when she heard that it was her husband she took out her veil and covered her face out of her great fear and embarrassment because she realized she wasn’t fit to be his wife. From that moment on that fear was permanently planted in her heart and she was not able to have the relationship with Yitzchok that Sarah had with Avraham and Rachel had with Yaakov. In particular when the others objected to something their husbands had done they were not embarrassed to speak firmly with them.  Rivkah was different. All of this served as a necessary preliminary to the events that would follow in Parshas Toldos when Yitzchok and Rivkah had strongly different views. Nonetheless Rivkah could not find the courage to stand up to Yitzchok and defend her views – even though it was true that Esav was a fraud. The same thing happened at the time of giving the berachos. In fact all of this was the means by which G‑d caused the berachos to be given to Yaakov in this manner as we will explain later. All was done with Divine Providence from the beginning - that Rivkah should arrive when Yitzchok was praying and thus she should see him as an awesome and frightening spectacle – it all happened according to G‑d’s Will.



Rav S. R. Hirsch(Bereishis 24:67):... A man’s love for his wife grows with time. An example is the marriage of the son of the first Jew. This is the way it is with the majority of Jewish marriages. They are not built on the basis of lust (cheshek) but rather on careful deliberations. The parents and relatives make the decision as to whether these young people are compatible with each other. As a consequence of this objective compatibility, love grows with the marriage as the couple spends more time together. In contrast the majority of non-Jewish marriages in the world are based on what they call “love”. One has only to look around to have clear proof that there is a great chasm between the “love” prior to marriage and that which exists after the marriage. One sees how quickly things change after marriage and are so different than what people imagined they would be. This “love” is blind and false. In contrast the Jewish marriages are described by this verse, “And he took Rivkah and he married her and he came to love her.” The Jewish wedding is not the result of the flowering of love but is the cause of it.



Rav Chaim Paltiel(Bereishis 24:67): And Yitzchok loved her This statement of the Torah is surprising – does that mean that originally he hated her? A possible answer is when he had the first sexual intercourse with her - he did not find signs of virginity. That was becasue she had fallen off the camel when she first saw him and this caused her to lose the signs of virginity and therefore she had the halachic status of one was lost the signs because of a physical blow (muchas eitz) – not because of intercourse. As a result of not finding the signs of virginity he hated her because he suspected that she had had relations with other men. She protested that she had done nothing wrong with any man. Eliezar also defended her innocence of wrong doing. She explained that when she fell of the camel, the force had caused her to lose the signs of viriginity. She added, “Perhaps G-d will do a miracle and I will find the signs of virginity.” They went to the field where she had fallen and they found the signs of virginity on a stone and a dove was sitting on them in order to preserve them from the sun.





Netziv(Bereishis 24:67): And he loved her – This that it says that he married Rivka is not proof  that he loved her. That is because he was forced to marry her since it was not easy to find a virgin specifically from his family. Therefore it was necessary for the Torah to inform us explicitly that in fact he found a special loving relationship with her that led to his being comforted from the distress of the death of his mother.



Yad Rama(Sanhedrin 76b): The braissa says that if a man loves his wife as himself – that means that he should have mercy on her as he is merciful to himself but more than himself is not relevant. That is because love is something which is in the heart and a person is not able to love another more than he loves himself. However regarding honor that is something for which it is possible that he can honor her more than himself with clothing which is nicer than what he gets for himself.

80 comments :

  1. Yaakov loved Rachel

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  2. and that shows that in general husbands didn't love their wives
    this was an exception!
    vrahan did not love Sarah or Yitzchok Rifka
    Yakov did not love Leah etc etc

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  3. Non Jewish? they are almost full like gerim toiveld, milah .
    Also ahavti is first regarding on the master so it doesn't mean LOVE rather happy and liking the whole situation.

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  4. רש"י שמות פרשת משפטים פרק כא פסוק ה


    (ה) את אשתי -ע השפחה:


    he is still rejecting his Jewish family

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  5. Why is that rejection? having two wives was the norm then .

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  6. those days martial relationship was sometimes more distant.almost like a fathely figure

    yitzchok was much older then rivka

    avrom amd sarah( first cousins ) more equal

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  7. This essay ("ahava" in its ancient near eastern context) might partially answer your question, at least in terms of another way to read the pasuk you quoted, and possibly as to why a similar command might not be necessary in the case of a wife and children:
    https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-shema-and-the-commandment-to-love-god-in-its-ancient-contexts

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  8. The torah is very light on middos generally. Love is a middoh. But in any event the torah is quite explicit on the love between the avod and imahos.

    Love is mentioned throughout nach of course. Which are prophetically sourced.

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  9. Strange diyuk. Generally contradicted by experience.

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  10. Sources for what point?

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  11. Love is mentioned throughout nach of course. Which are prophetically sourced. REGARDING MARRIAGE especially the Avos

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  12. I believe the love between Yitzchok and Ya'ackov and their wives is clearly stated.


    As for Nach, Look at shir hashirim. Look at how the love between a man and wife is used as a metaphor throughtout nach and prophecies for the love between Hashem and Yisroel. Hoshea was even told to fall in love with a zona (and then leave her)! Kal Vechimer a real wife!

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  13. Bereishis 24:67
    ויבאה יצחק האהלה שרה אמו ויקח את רבקה ותהי לו לאשה ויאהבה וינחם יצחק אחרי אמו

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  14. >why is there no place where the Torah talks about a man loving his Jewish wife and children?!
    For the same reason the Torah makes no mention of how to go to the bathroom or ride a bicycle. Some things are natural and need no explanation.

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  15. Do you have to announce to us that you love your wife? And if you don't, must I assume you don't?
    You don't know that Avraham did not love Sarah, just that the Torah omitted that detail. You cannot bring a conclusion from that. The Torah didn't tell us Avraham went to the bathroom either.
    This is the natural way of the world so why shout it out?

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  16. you obviously didnt read the sources





    you obviously didn't read the sources I added to the post - which disagrees with your viewpoint!

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  17. shir hashirim is not about a man and his wife

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  18. from wikipedia

    The introduction calls the poem "the song of songs", a construction commonly used in Scriptural Hebrew to show something as the greatest and most beautiful of its class (as in Holy of Holies).[10] The poem proper begins with the woman's expression of desire for her lover and her self-description to the "daughters of Jerusalem": she insists on her sun-born blackness, likening it to the "tents of Kedar" (nomads) and the "curtains of Solomon". A dialogue between the lovers follows: the woman asks the man to meet; he replies with a lightly teasing tone. The two compete in offering flattering compliments ("my beloved is to me as a cluster of henna blossoms in the vineyards of En Gedi", "an apple tree among the trees of the wood", "a lily among brambles", while the bed they share is like a forest canopy). The section closes with the woman telling the daughters of Jerusalem not to stir up love such as hers until it is ready.[11]

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  19. Despite the constant discussion of personal matters in society nowadays, some things are diminished by verbalizing them. The Torah teaches that by not explicitly discussing these matters. The understasnding person can figure it out from the events relayed to us through the Chumash.

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  20. Rashi in Sanhedrin says its about a man and his kalloh. In his hakdomo he says a man and his arysoh. I have no doubt other rishonim say similar. But give preference to wiki over rashi if you wish.

    What do you think its about? A man and his zonah? A man and his pilegesh? A woman and her lover (like wiki).? Whatever you think it is about, I would make a kal vechomer.

    Or do you think a woman and her lover have love for each other, but not a married couple?

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  21. Wikipedia is the anonymous opinion of someone who may have plagiarised.

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  22. It is about love between a man and a woman. What you derive from it is a whole different story

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  23. What is nonsense about garnels comment?
    What about Adam and eve?

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  24. 'Al kain Yazov as Aviv vEmoi' ....'Vhayu libasar Echod!'
    "They will become one flesh"!
    Maybe not Western Culture but still a true complete and whole union!

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  25. if you bother reading the text it is clear that this is not husband and wife

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  26. where does it describe love between Adam and Eve?

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  27. Rambam(Hilchos Teshuva 10:3): What is the nature of the love that man should have for G d? It should be an extreme and excessive love to the degree that his soul is totally bound up with the love of G d and he is constantly obsessed with it as if he is lovesick. A lovesick person is never free from the passion of his love for that woman and he thinks about her constantly whether he is sitting or standing or at the time that he is eating and drinking. The love of G d should be even greater than this and should be implanted in the heart of those that love Him and are obsessed with Him constantly as we are commanded to, “Love Him with all your heart and all your soul” (Devarim 6:5). This concept was expressed by Shlomo (Shir HaShirim 2:5), “I am lovesick.” In fact all of Shir Hashirim is a parable describing the love of G d [with the metaphor of love of a woman].

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  28. nope!

    read the commentaries not about love!

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  29. Maharal (Bereishis 2:24):
    And there [in the child] their flesh becomes united. The Ramban raises a
    question against Rashi by this is true also of animal that the flesh of the
    parents becomes one in their offspring? However it appears to me that this is
    not a difficulty because there is no relationship between the offspring and its
    parents for animals that we would say this is the son of a particular ox. In
    contrast with people there is a relationship in that we call a person the son
    of so-and-so. And it is this recognition of relationship to the offspring that
    is referred to as being one flesh.

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  30. רש"ר הירש בראשית פרק כד פסוק סז
    (סז) אף זו תכונה, אשר, ברוך ה', לא ניטשטשה בזרע אברהם ושרה, יצחק ורבקה! ככל שהוסיפה להיות אשתו, כן גדלה אהבתו! כדוגמת נישואין אלה של הבן היהודי הראשון, כן נוסדים הנישואין, רוב הנישואין בישראל, לא על יסוד התשוקה, אלא על פי שיקול התבונה. הורים וקרובים נמלכים בעצמם, אם הצעירים מתאימים זה לזו; משום כך גוברת האהבה, ככל שהם מרבים להתודע זה לזו. אך רוב הנישואין בעולם הלא - יהודי נגמרים על - פי מה שהם קוראים "אהבה", ואין לו לאדם אלא להציץ בתיאורי הנובילות הלקוחים מהחיים, כדי להיוכח מיד, מה רבה שם התהום בין ה"אהבה" שלפני הנישואין לבין זו שלאחריהם, איך הכל אחר - כך תפל וחסר טעם, מה שונה הכל מתיאור הדמיון, וכו'. "אהבה" זו היתה עוורת, ועל כל שעל בעתיד - אכזבה; לא כן הנישואין בישראל, שעליהם הוא אומר: ויקח את רבקה ותהי לו לאשה ויאהבה! שם החתונה איננה שיא הפריחה, אלא השורש לאהבה!

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  31. Malbim(Introduction to Shir HaShirim):[[ Among Solomon's many women, his soul became attached to one beloved beautiful woman. betrothed to a shepherd in the pasture. And this beloved one was taken from the bosom of her beloved shepherd to King Solomon. to his royal palace. and he placed the royal crown on her head and gave her regal gifts. He also appointed the daughters of Jerusalem as guards over her. and they surrounded her, watching her steps, lest she flee to the pasture, to her beloved. but the watchers guarded her in vain. for her heart was not attracted to all Solomon's luxuries. her soul despised his love. rejected the kings food and the wine of his banquets. for her soul yearned for the prince of her youth who pastured his sheep among the lilies. He, too. remembered the love of her bridal days. Every day. he would go before the court of the harem, where his bride was held captive. looking through the windows, conversing with her behind the walls, and she poured out her heart to him. begging him to rescue her from her prison. So they devised signs. He made signs for her how to flee and how to find him on the distant mountains. And, indeed. she fled many times from the kings palace to the pasture where he was encamped. And the daughters of Jerusalem. her guards. pursued her and returned her against her will to Solomon's chambers. until. at the end of days. she girded her loins. broke the copper doors, cut off the locks, opened the fetters, and fled with a high hand. perfumed with myrrh and frankincense to her beloved, the gazelle on the spice mountains

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  32. Doesn't make Shlomo look to good.

    Be that as it may, it's clear the shepherd boy loved his 'betrothed' and vice versa. Which is exactly my point.

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  33. You can't just copy and paste large chunks of text. What point are you trying to bring out?

    And you can always cherry pick to find something that supports you (assuming you believe that quotes supports you - I don't) ignoring everything else. That's not methodical or balanced learning.

    RSRH is discussing the role of love before marriage. But after marriage the torah states it should be there. The chuppah is the root of the love that comes afterwards.

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  34. כד עַל-כֵּן, יַעֲזָב-אִישׁ, אֶת-אָבִיו, וְאֶת-אִמּוֹ; וְדָבַק בְּאִשְׁתּוֹ, וְהָיוּ לְבָשָׂר אֶחָד

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  35. So you are saying love is only during courtship, afterwards it's over. How cynical!

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  36. Perhaps they weren't married!

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  37. Finally a classic Daat Torah post which will invoke real and meaningful Torah discussion like the old days

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  38. But why does it have to? The Torah doesn't go into minutiae. Did Adam and Chavah stand in the same spot and stare into space all day? Because the Torah doesn't tell us they walked around, eat or breathed either. It takes such things for granted. Further, according to the Midrash that says the snake watched them being intimate, you either have to reject all the midrashim that explain that before eating from the Etz, that they did have positive emotions or propose they were Vulcan-like automatons who were simply going through motions.

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  39. In other words you want to create your own visuion of things based on your knowledge of what?

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  40. i was referring to husband and wife - please read the commentaries that I have added to original post that disagree with your viewpoint

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  41. how to understand Yevamos
    that if a man loves his wife as himself

    Igros Kodesh 5) Our Sages (Yevamos 62b) say, One who loves his wife as himself and honors her more than himself…is described by the verse "You should know that you will have peace with your wife…." It is important to note that our Sages are not saying to love one's wife with the natural love that man is attracted to a woman but rather to love her with the love that friends have for each other - as someone he knows and has a covenant with him and that they are partners in many things and each one helps and receives help from the other. In addition the love he feels for her should also come from gratitude. He needs to have the clear image in his mind that if he had not gotten a wife and would have remained alone and isolated - how much suffering and pain he would have from this. But now that he has a wife his life is in place and functioning. The significance of gratitude is immeasurably important. In fact our Sages state in the Mishna Rabbi Eliezer (Chapter 7) that all those who lack gratitude to their fellow men will eventually lack gratitude towards G-d. If you look there you will see how extremely stringent they are in this matter. This type of love is what our Sages say a man is obligated to have towards his wife. And again this love does not come from the lust a man has for a woman at all but from one of the good attributes which he is obligated to have. He needs to have this type of love and feeling towards her when he strives to cause her rejoicing at the time of intercourse and well as before and afterwards. Such a relationship is not disgusting – chas v'shalom – but rather it is a mitzva. In fact he should conduct himself in this manner even if he were not obligated by the Torah and surely now that the Torah does obligated it - as we mentioned before.

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  42. So what? Anybody can cherry pick sources to support their point of view. You asked where in chazal is there shown the importance of love between husband and wife and plenty of sources have been provide. Period.

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  43. when Chareidim want to distort the Emes or star form the plain meaning of the Torah, they always find a suitable Malbim!

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  44. when someone doesn't have a suitable reply they can always use ad hominem attacks

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  45. where?
    Yevamos (62b) where it is at most a rabbincv command or more likely advice
    or maybe the view that Rivkah was afraid of Yitzchok?

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  46. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 1:27 PM

    It depends - it is a very far fetched story . Is it based on a midrash (where?) and if not, where did he get this story from?


    In David Hamelech's case, the story is explicitly given in the Mikra, so we know he took another man's wife, and there is room to haggle about whether she was really marrried or not.

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  47. WHERE DOES THE TEXT SAY IT IS ABOUT HUSBAND AND WIFE?

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  48. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 2:15 PM

    I already cited the Torah _ a man shall cling to his wife. Where is the ambiguity in that?

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  49. Abarbanel (Bereishis 2:24): Therefore a man should leave his parents and cleave to his wife... The scholars of the nations explain this verse discussing marriage. It is understood to mean that a woman should leave her father and not marry him and similarly a man should leave his mother and not have intercourse with her but rather with his wife and they should unite as if they are one flesh. Because in the early generations there was no prohibition of relatives marrying except for a mother and to her son and a daughter to her father. Perhaps this is want Rashi meant when he said “The divine spirit said this verse in order to prohibit blood relatives for bnei noach.” We find a similar idea in Sanhedrin (58a), Therefore a man should leave his father and his mother- which refers to his father’s sister and mother’s sister. Rabbi Akiva said that father means the wife of his father and mother means his own mother. There are other views expressed there. However according to the plain meaning (pshat) all these interpretations are farfetched in our eyes because the verse is simply talking about the love and desire a man has for his wife that is so strong that he leaves the parents who gave birth to him in order to cleave to her. Therefore the verse is talking only about a man that he should leave his father and his mother and does not talk about the woman leaving her father and not marry him. It is not talking about the other interpretations that are found in Sanhedrin (58). Furthermore Rashi explains the expression “they shall be one flesh” to be referring to the child that is created by both. Concerning the Ibn Ezra says that the explanation is farfetched – however it seems to me that it is correct and very straightforward....
    Malbim (Bereishis 2:24): Man was called initially with the name Adam because of his relationship to dirt which was his father and his mother which gave birth to him since he was created from dirt and then afterwards was called Ish (man) and he was to leave his father and his mother which is the dirt and no longer would he be called Adam but only Ish which is a term he shares with the woman Isha because she was given to him as a helper. So it is will every man who in his youth cleaves to his father and his mother but when he grows up and becomes Ish and he leaves them and he takes a wife with whom he is to build a separate home and he is to cling to her and she is to be his companion and compatible helper (ezer kenegdo). And they are to be a single flesh in order to have children and preserve mankind.

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  50. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 4:57 PM

    It is part of it, or loving is part of clinging. What is devekut?
    It is telling us that it's man's nature to cling to a woman _ basic psychology.

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  51. you might note the commentaries don't agree with you chidush or even mention it

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  52. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 7:03 PM

    Doesn't mean my hidush is wrong!

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  53. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 7:05 PM

    Even according to avarbanel, we cleave to our parents in pure love. So it's a deeper love with ones true spouse.

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  54. but it clearly indicates that it is not the understanding of anybody else

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  55. therefore it is not prescriptive of marriage

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  56. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 9:22 PM

    Netziv agrees with me, haemek davar.

    Will paste when on my computer.

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  57. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 9:26 PM

    Ramban , sforno, chizkuni speak explicitly about wife, as does the following verse, ishto!

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  58. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 9:38 PM

    Haamek Davar completely rebuffs your claim!

    על כן יעזב איש וגו׳ ודבק באשתו. מכאן ולהבא אין עצה שתהיה לו לעזר כנגדו ככונת היצירה. אם לא בזה האופן שהוא יעזוב את אביו ואת אמו ודבק באשתו. ואז יהיו לבשר אחד שיאהבנה ג״כ כמו שהם אדם אחד. וכדאי׳ בפ׳ הבע״י האוהב את אשתו כגופו כו׳ וגם אז אינה טפלה לגמרי כמו שהי׳ אשה ראשונה שהיתה נחשבת לחלק ממנו. אלא שיהיו בשר אחד. וכמו שהוא חושב לטובת עצמו ורוצה שהיא תשלים אחר רצונו לגמרי כן תחשוב גם היא שהיא מבקשת טובת עצמה והוא ישלים רצונה. מ״מ הועיל סיבת האשה הראשונה שנעשה לטבע קיום שהאשה נשארה לעזר. אע״ג שאינו בזה האופן שהיה ברגע ראשון אלא כמו שנעשה אח״כ. והוא מכלל בריאת העולם ביום הששי ורק מי שזוכה לכך משיג אהבת אשתו בבטול גמור כמו שהיתה חוה לפני החטא. ומש״ה נעשה בשני אופנים ענין דביקות אדם וחוה כדי שיהיו לדורות שני אופני אהבת אשה לאיש. וכמו שדברנו בשני אופני אדם לעבודת ה׳. והכל נעשה ביום הראשון לבריאתו כמבואר לעיל ריש הפרשה. כך נעשה טבע אהבת אשה וחייה עם האיש בשני אופנים באותו יום כדי שיהיה לדורות שני אופנים הנהגת אשה לאיש וכענין שאמר ב״ע שלהי מסכת קדושין אני נבראתי לשמש את קוני והמה נבראים לשמשני. וכערך שימושו יהי שימושה לאיש. או ע״פ המזל ככל הליכות חיי האדם שבא לזה ע״י השגחה פרטית לפי מעשיו ולזה במזל טוב או רע שכן יסד מלכו ש״ע:

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  59. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 1, 2020 at 9:39 PM

    וַיִּֽהְי֤וּ שְׁנֵיהֶם֙ עֲרוּמִּ֔ים הָֽאָדָ֖ם וְאִשְׁתּ֑וֹ וְלֹ֖א יִתְבֹּשָֽׁשׁוּ׃


    The two of them were naked, the man and his wife, yet they felt no shame.

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  60. Netziv (Bereishis 24:67): And he loved her – This that it says that he married Rivka is not proof that he loved her. That is because he was forced to marry her since it was not easy to find a virgin specifically from his family. Therefore it was necessary for the Torah to inform us explicitly that in fact he found a special loving relationship with her that led to his being comforted from the distress of the death of his mother.

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  61. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 2, 2020 at 1:13 AM

    That doesn't touch on my case of Adam and eve.
    He is being a realist _ not every marriage is ideal or perfect.

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  62. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 2, 2020 at 1:26 AM

    Ishto _ they were married

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  63. אני לדודי ודודי לי
    I alone am my Beloved’s and my Beloved is mine

    The love IS the relationship, the relationship IS the love.

    To not see this is to be stuck on modern notions of love, as opposed to HaShem’s notion of love. HaShem’s love for Yisrael is not the fleeting “love” of modern day romance, where a man and wife can fall in and out of love as often as they change underwear. Rather, HaShem’s love IS one based on commitment and, YES, contractual obligation. Because, as in business, partners who tell each other “I trust you DUDE, we don’t need a contract!” are doomed to failure. Alternatively, two partners who want their business to succeed long term and want to protect each other are going to sign that piece of paper!

    So to say our fathers didn’t love their wives is about as short-sighted as a midget during a power outage. HaShem…the original marriage expert!

    If you’re looking elsewhere to explain what love is, you might as well count Hugh Hefner and Larry Flint among your respected sages.

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  64. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 2, 2020 at 4:57 PM

    "The Malbim escalated his struggle against the "enlighteners"
    in Bucharest by forbidding the local kosher slaughterers to slaughter
    for them, enforcing his ban by means of an oath and threat of
    excommunication. He prohibited the consumption of meat from animals
    slaughtered by two ritual slaughterers who broke the oath. By
    doing so, he increased the number of his enemies and caused tension
    between himself, the local slaughterers, and the rabbinical judges,
    because he enforced total authority over them.. The government
    withdrew its official recognition of the community and of the
    Malbim as its Chief Rabbi, prohibiting him from delivering sermons
    in the Great Synagogue. In addition to this his family life was
    upset and, worst of all, his son Aharon died in his youth and
    was buried in the Bucharest cemetery in 1862. This had a severe
    impact on the Malbim."


    This is from Jewish History dept at Bar Ilan University.


    Even Chazal said that they cannot impose a gezeira if the majority of the community cannot bear the burden. From where did the Malbim get the authority to put a Gezeira on Kosher butchers against selling kosher meat to Jews? The Neviim never did this - they presured the the secularists to keep the Torah, not the opposite! It seems he was not really promoting Torah, but the opposite , denying Torah.

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  65. WOW!
    YOU CITE NOT A SINGLE SOUR CE TO SUPPORT YOUR ASSERTIONS

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  66. It’s a shame about ‘nach—the word of HaShem through
    His prophets— not qualifying as a valid source.

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  67. The numerous rishonim that disagree with the Malbim, for a start. Rashi and more.

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  68. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 3, 2020 at 11:14 PM

    Shir Hashirim 4: 9-10

    לִבַּבְתִּ֖נִי אֲחֹתִ֣י כַלָּ֑ה לִבַּבְתִּ֙ינִי֙ באחד [בְּאַחַ֣ת] מֵעֵינַ֔יִךְ בְּאַחַ֥ד עֲנָ֖ק מִצַּוְּרֹנָֽיִךְ׃


    You have captured my heart, My own, my bride, You have captured my heart With one [glance] of your eyes, With one coil of your necklace.


    מַה־יָּפ֥וּ דֹדַ֖יִךְ אֲחֹתִ֣י כַלָּ֑ה מַה־טֹּ֤בוּ דֹדַ֙יִךְ֙ מִיַּ֔יִן וְרֵ֥יחַ שְׁמָנַ֖יִךְ מִכָּל־בְּשָׂמִֽים׃


    How sweet is your love, My own, my bride! How much more delightful your love than wine, Your ointments more fragrant Than any spice!




    Presumably you accept that he refers to her as his Kallah?

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  69. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 4, 2020 at 12:06 PM

    So now you take sister literally and not bride?

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  70. both can be understood as not literal

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  71. Kalonymus HaQatanMarch 4, 2020 at 12:49 PM

    כֻּלָּ֤ךְ יָפָה֙ רַעְיָתִ֔י וּמ֖וּם אֵ֥ין בָּֽךְ

    Yes, he is using imagery, but even so, the love of a bride is used to show deep love, so even if it's imagery it still refutes your claim

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  72. it says nothing about normative marriage or Torah values
    as noted many times there would be no need for a rabbinic decree to love one's wife if
    it was inherent in marriage already

    Shir Hashirim is not prescriptive of marriage but rather a parable to indicate the relationship between G-d and Jews

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