Saturday, January 9, 2010

Rav Sternbuch: Dybuk is mental illness


I showed Rav Sternbuch various press releases which asserted that he had placed the Brazilian dybuk in  niddoi to protect R Batzri.  He categorically denied the story. He added this is not a case of a dybuk but of mental illness. He expressed dismay that thousands of people believed that this was a dybuk and were involved with R Batzri's ceremony. He urged me to please write an article regarding his denial and emphasized the urgency to publicize his denial of involvment with the proclamation of nidoi and that he viewed this is a case of mental illness.


30 comments :

  1. For background see these links
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260894118116&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260894118116&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

    http://matzav.com/video-photos-thousands-watch-as-rav-batzri-attempts-to-banish-dybbuk-to-no-avail

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  2. DT: maybe you send this to all the newspapers poking fun at us, lets see if they take any notice!

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  3. Rav Batzri seems to think its real. Supposedly RCK does as well.

    Any comments?

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  4. Does he hold that ALL claims of Dybbuk possession are due to mental illness?

    Or, only this one?

    If the latter, what made him so certain that this case was different?

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  5. So does this mean that Rav Sternbuch does not believe that Leib Tropper and his wife were possessed by Dybbuks?

    What about Hagai Batzri? What possessed him?

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  6. Is it possible it is a real Dybbuk and Rav Shternbuch is wrong because as Rav Kanievsky said there are others who are expert in this- R Batzri?
    Is it possible that R Shtternbuch KNOWS its a Dybbuk but wants to hush it up because of all the press and publicity which is making Jews seem superstition backwards and stuck in the middle ages where people believed in ghosts and goblins?
    I smell a COVER UP.

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  7. all the jewish news sites are claiming you did this at thier behest. who is telling the truth?

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  8. In order for anyone to make a qualified determination as to who is insane and who isn't, they first need to be a Licenced Psychiatrist.

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  9. Yeshiva World claims that R' Chaim Kanievsky and Rav Shteiman both hold the dybbuk was real.

    Any truth to this report?

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  10. הרב יצחק בצריJanuary 10, 2010 at 9:47 AM

    כבר בורר שאתה לא הולך על פי דברי גדולי ישראל בגלל אתה מקיים בלוג, ולא רק בלוג סתם אבל בלוג מלא אם שקר ולשון הרע. עכשיו גם בורר שאתה שקרן. הכל שרוצה לדעת את האמת צריך רק ללכת לישיבתנו ישיבת השלום איפה הם יכולים לראות הפסק דין עם חתימת הרה"ג שטרנבוך שליט"א שהוא נתן לאמהרה"ג המקובל הצדיק יסודי עולם דוד בצרי שליט"א. תגיד לנו הרה"ג שטרנבוך שליט"א נתן לך רשות לשקר בשמו?

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  11. Seekeroftruth said...

    Is it possible it is a real Dybbuk and Rav Shternbuch is wrong because as Rav Kanievsky said there are others who are expert in this- R Batzri?
    Is it possible that R Shtternbuch KNOWS its a Dybbuk but wants to hush it up because of all the press and publicity which is making Jews seem superstition backwards and stuck in the middle ages where people believed in ghosts and goblins?
    I smell a COVER UP.

    ===============
    the answer to sll your questions is NO!

    This is Rav Sternbuch opionion and he is not covering up anything.

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  12. Anonymous said...

    all the jewish news sites are claiming you did this at thier behest. who is telling the truth?
    ============
    Rather simple. I was sent requests to verify the story but I had read the story and was going to ask Rav Sternbuch anyway.

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  13. הרב יצחק בצרי said...
    כבר בורר שאתה לא הולך על פי דברי גדולי ישראל בגלל אתה מקיים בלוג, ולא רק בלוג סתם אבל בלוג מלא אם שקר ולשון הרע. עכשיו גם בורר שאתה שקרן. הכל שרוצה לדעת את האמת צריך רק ללכת לישיבתנו ישיבת השלום איפה הם יכולים לראות הפסק דין עם חתימת הרה"ג שטרנבוך שליט"א שהוא נתן לאמהרה"ג המקובל הצדיק יסודי עולם דוד בצרי שליט"א. תגיד לנו הרה"ג שטרנבוך שליט"א נתן לך רשות לשקר בשמו?

    דוד אמר

    בגמרא כתוב מלתא דעבידא לגלוי לא משקרי אינשי, כנראה זה לא נוגע אליך, אתה שקרן גמור , אם יש מכתב כזה, אתה מעיד עכשיו שאתה זיפת אותו. אני הייתי שמה כשהרב שטרנבוך אמר כך לבעל הבלוג הזאת

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  14. Talmid of Rabbi T.January 10, 2010 at 2:51 PM

    And of course without fail this story comes up at the Shabbat table, where it seemed that much to my dismay everyone believed with emunah peshuta and complete faith as the 14th principle of emunah that the dybuk is real and all the gedolim are joining forces to expel the evil demon. But now thanks to daattorahblog I can rain on the hamon am's parade without being accused of saying something negative about gedolim because the gadol Rav Shternbuch refutes this nonsense out of hand. Thank you Rabbi E.

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  15. "In order for anyone to make a qualified determination as to who is insane and who isn't, they first need to be a Licenced Psychiatrist."

    What does someone need to make a qualified determination as to whether Rambam or Ramban is correct as to whether all this stuff is nonsense or not?

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  16. I heard Rav YaKov Hillel said the same as Rav Sternbuch. Dont forget the passuk in Mishley "pesey yaamin lecol davar" a fool believes everything

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  17. R' Kaduri states that aside from the three weeks Shedim and Dybukim cannot reside in Eretz Yisrael, aside from very short times when a person's sin allows them to afflict, but afterward they immediately need to leave. His words, plus a full teshuva written(I believe) by R' Benayahu Shmueli(his chief student) can be found in sefer Divrei Yitzchak Sha'ar HaShmirah Siman 2.

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  18. What is forgotten is that there is something called a Mesorah for Halacha; we know when a Rav is qualified as a Posek by reading what he writes and seeing his logic. There is no such tradition when it comes to these sorts of matters, so we are subjected to all the sillyness and we don't even know who is an authority to sort it all out--this is not what they teach in Yeshivos, even the most advanced; the people who spend time with this more often are the ones who don't spend time with the "real stuff" so we just don't know who should be listened to--so the best thing is to spend our time on things we can understand and ignore these matters which generally will be nothing but a waste of time and worse.

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  19. There is no such tradition when it comes to these sorts of matters, so we are subjected to all the sillyness and we don't even know who is an authority to sort it all out--this is not what they teach in Yeshivos, even the most advanced; the people who spend time with this more often are the ones who don't spend time with the "real stuff" so we just don't know who should be listened to

    This simply is not so. There is a discernable tradition from the Ramban to the Ari to today. People who learn Kabbalah spend a large amount of time with "real stuff", only once one has gained a level of proficiency in Halacha and Gemmarra can one begin to learn Kabbalah in any Yeshiva(yes it is taught in Yeshivot) that has an authentic mesorah.

    For two very clear sources about such things and their Mesorah, I would say see Yehaveh Da'at 4:47 by R' Ovadiah Yosef, and see Tihyeh Tamim, by R' Hillel, which has a slightly watered down version in English called Faith and Folly.

    The real issue is that most people have never bothered to examine to know what is a authentic or not mesorah in the realm of Kabbalah because it does not enter their arba amot, and thus they are ignorant of the various sources.

    However Chaim Vital states in his introduction to Eitz Chaim what is and is not to be considered authentic in his time. The Chida writes clearly in his sefer Shem Gedolim.

    R' Hillel has done numerous works on tracing mesorah of Kabbalah, aside from the small pamphlet I mentioned above.

    There is a genuine and discernable mesorah, and anyone within the world of Kabbalah, and even a few who aren't such as R' Ovadiah, R' Mordechai Eliyahu(who at least in not primarily Kabbalist) R' Shternbuch are more than qualified and familiar with the sources to know if what they are seeing or hearing accords with the words of the mesorah.

    The issue becomes whether what R' Batzri is doing, matches up with what the mesorah states. Personally I would encourage anyone who reads Hebrew to read Siman 47 and 88 of R' Yehuda Patiya's Minchat Yehuda, where he deals with these specific issues and brings his own accounts of exorcisms. Also read Sha'ar Ruach HaKodesh starting on 30c, and on for a couple of pages where R' Chaim Vital gives over the Ari Z"L's teachings on exorcisms. Then you can see if the mesorah matches what is being done.

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  20. A fine excuse for every Apikores:

    " Dont forget the passuk in Mishley "pesey yaamin lecol davar" a fool believes everything"

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  21. Rav Eidensohn,
    Who checked him out that they can say its mental illness? Was an actual M.D. Consulted?
    Hey I also think the guy is mentally ill but the fellow needs a Psychiatric evaluation before we can publicly announce that. It would be loshon hora otherwise no?

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  22. Seekeroftruth said...

    Rav Eidensohn,
    Who checked him out that they can say its mental illness? Was an actual M.D. Consulted?
    Hey I also think the guy is mentally ill but the fellow needs a Psychiatric evaluation before we can publicly announce that. It would be loshon hora otherwise no?
    ==============
    You can be sure that Rav Sternbuch knows the laws of lashon harah and would not have made his statement if it violated the laws of lashon harah.

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  23. Yes, Dibbuk is a mental illness, just like liberalism is a mental illness

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  24. With these types of disorders, MPD DID or any other types, there is no way someone can suddenly begin speaking languages he has no knowledge of nor any way a Dibuk could tell people around him, facts which he knows, which he had no way of knowing according to all laws of nature unless he was indeed a real Dibuk.

    It can't be explained away as any type of mental illness because a Dibuk can do and say things which are impossible for anyone of any type of mental illness to be able to know or say.

    A real dibuk is as obvious and as unmistakable as an Elephant in the room. Only someone who was no present and hears things 3d hand or who has an agenda can say that the elephant in the room is not really and elephant only a figment of someones imagination.

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  25. There was known case of Dibuk that was removed by the Lubavitcher Rebbe at a Farbrengen of 6, Tishrey, Taf Shin Lamed Hey.

    That specific Dibuk was in a women and the Dibuk was of the Neshama of Miriyam Bas Bilgah and in a very earth shattering, very moving and stunning Farrbrengen the Lubavitcher Rebbe found a way to be Melamed Zchus on the Neshama of Miriam Bas Bilagah and the Dibuk left the body as a result. This was broadcast on Radio and TV and there is documented video of that Farbrengen, where it is all very obvious to anyone who listens to it.

    http://www.chabad.info/index.php?url=article_he&id=52218

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  26. mekubal, you can be sure rav batzri knows his grandfather's sefer minchas yehuda.

    next, nobody ever questioned or doubted rav batzri's knowledge and proficiency in kabala.

    who do you claim to have learned kabala from? what did you learn a bit of otzros? a bit of kavonos? a zohar shiur here and there?

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  27. The Satmar Rov zl said that a shoyteh believes everything and an apikoress believes nothing.

    Dybukkim can be elaborately staged. The fish in New Square was very convincing but the Skverrer Rebbe told Rav Salomon that the main guy involved is a known baal dimyon.

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  28. R' Avigdor Miller zl said the cure for (most?) Liberals is to be whacked over the head & robbed by a criminal.

    I was mossif the brackets because Mario Cuomo was not moved even after his own shver had that happen to him.

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  29. who do you claim to have learned kabala from? what did you learn a bit of otzros? a bit of kavonos? a zohar shiur here and there?

    Something like that. With a bit of Kise Eliyahu, and a bit of Da'at U'Tevunah. Oh and a bit of Sha'arei Kedusha. Not to mention a bit of Eitz, and Pri Eitz... Under the instruction of R' Kaduri Z"L.

    Besides, why do you assume me pointing people to the actual sources, is an attack on R' Batzri?

    A person stated that there is no mesorah to know whether what he is doing is true or not. I stated that there is mesorah, and that anyone who is interested can see if what he is doing is true or not from the sources.

    You take that as an attack?

    Me... what can I say? The issue of Dybukim today, and especially their ability to be in Eretz Yisrael is a dispute that arose between R' Patiya Z"L and R' Agasi Z"L. R' Kaduri Z"L was a talmid of R' Agasi Z"L, I am a talmid of R' Kaduri Z"L. You want that I should go against my own Rabbanim? So I point people to the sources and let them make up their own minds.

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  30. this is all total the dybuk is totally real! i know that i am supersttious, but it is true

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