Tuesday, November 27, 2012

רבי חיים במכתב: להוציא קובץ של הרב גרוס מהבית


kikarhashabat   מרן שר התורה הגאון רבי חיים קניבסקי יוצא הבוקר במכתב חריף נגד קובץ תשובות הלכתי של גאב"ד 'חניכי הישיבות' הרב מרדכי גרוס, וקורא להוציאו מהבית בשל דברים שנדפסו בו של חילול שבת. בתגובה, הורה הרב גרוס לאנשיו לבטל את המנוי ל'יתד נאמן' (חרדים


ויכוח הלכתי סוער או קרע פוליטי חריף? נראה שבציבור הליטאי, בצורה זו או אחרת הכל בסופו של דבר קשור זה בזה.
בעיתון 'יתד נאמן' מופיע הבוקר (רביעי) מכתב חריף ממרן שר התורה הגאון רבי חיים קניבסקי שליט"א נגד קובץ תשובות הלכתי של גאב"ד 'חניכי הישיבות' הרב מרדכי גרוס.

update November 27 2012
דברי הרב דרזי

The following is the article that is being criticized- downloading & printer options turned off

Electricity Watermeters & Air Conditioners

Rav Lazerson's kuntres explaining Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's views




19 comments:

  1. The letter, as it was published in Yated, was incomprehensible, and contained an obvious misquote of a passuk as well. I doubt that Reb Chaim really wrote it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ... Just like the letter against mishpacha mag.
      R gross is famous for his hecksher for kosher wigs.

      Delete
  2. It is money issue, r' Gross beis din is becoming very popular and it directly compete with r' Karlitz beis din.

    ReplyDelete
  3. No doubt that politics are behind pushing Rav Chaim to write this (If he wrote it), but what was Rav Chaim referring to when he wrote of Rav Gross's position regarding electricity and Shabbos being "Heaven help us!"

    Does anyone know what in particular was so beyond Rav Chaim's pale that it does not belong -- according to him -- in a Jewish house?

    ReplyDelete
  4. does anyone know if r' Elyashiv ZT'L psak against Crocs shoes also holds for Tom's Shoes ?

    ReplyDelete
  5. It seems time for some serious talmidei chachamim to sort out whether the arguments against Rav Gross's people are valid or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alternatively, it seems time for some serious talmidei chachamim to stay away and not get involved.

      Delete
  6. Politics in the guise of halacha.
    This is a regular occurrence and especially when a new leader or leaders wish to consolidate their grip on power.
    Thus, in R' Shach's days, the war was against MO, DL, Hesder Yeshivot aecular education.
    R' Elyashiv's battles were wigs, elevators, conversions.
    Today is interesting, because it is internal warfare. No longer are they attacking the Modernists (perhaps there is no mileage left in that) but it is a "civil" war in the Lithuanian camp.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Eddie I assume you studied thoroughly the material I posted before you concluded that there is no halachic issue - but it is politics. Pehaps you can explain to us why there is no serious halachic consideration here?

      Delete
    2. My argument is that the motivation is not purely halachic, but is mixed with politics. Bluke below makes a good point.
      There are always opposing opinions, so should we always throw out all the books we disagree with? Pretty soon, there would not be many books left.

      Delete
  7. Of course there are serious halachic issues, but since when do we throw out/ban seforim just because we disagree with their conclusions. There has always been machlokes in halacha, but we don't find that just because someone disagrees we throw out the sefer. If you don't agree with the halachic conclusions then publish a teshuva why the other person is wrong. R' Gross is a talmid chacham who is certainly entitled to an opinion on halachic topics.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Compare the two articles and you'll have your answer.

      One is based on source analysis and logic, while the other is a polemic.

      Unless one is prepared to refute the logic, one must resort to the "received wisdom" approach, which can only mean "I ban you" because you are arguing against the received wisdom of my authorities.

      Delete
    2. I was about to put the exact same comment. Judaism is NOT a totalitarian dictature!

      Delete
  8. What does this all mean?November 28, 2012 at 12:27 AM

    The machmirim leave us with no solutions.

    The apt complex where I live is installing a digital water meter and the water utility here is doing the same in private houses.

    In lakewood, half the avreichim living in private basements trigger electric pumps when expelling their waste water, whether it's from the toilet or the drain.

    We should not use water, l'kavod keddushas SHabbos?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are pointing out a very serious problem. Everything is going electronic. Soon it will be very hard to find anything that doesn't have some kind of electronic sensor on it. If you go to a hotel you can see some of them, for example:
      Electronic keys
      Motion sensors which shut off the lights and air conditioning if there is no movement
      Faucets that go on and off based on motion sensors
      Toilets with sensors
      Automatic doors
      Security cameras

      Household appliances are changing as well. New refrigerators all have sensors that are put into action when you open the door etc. (even if you tape down the light switch). Modern burglar alarms have sensors on the door and register when the door opens even if the alarm is off. There are surveillance cameras everywhere.

      The point is that electronics and sensors are becoming ubiquitous, they are going to be everywhere. It will soon reach a point that we will not be able to do anything without causing some reaction in some sensor.

      If we just continue saying that electricity/electronics is assur we will either not be able to do anything on Shabbos or have to become Amish. I for one don’t see how a frum person can stay in a hotel in the US on Shabbos based on this.

      Delete
    2. I suppose the counter argument would be that , yes it is difficult, but even at the cost of being Heimish/Amish, it is the only choice rather than meddling with halacha and permitting what is forbidden. In any case, electricity is not fire.

      Delete
    3. What does this all mean?November 28, 2012 at 6:11 PM

      The problem goes beyond Hilchos Shabbos.

      What we're hearing from the machmirim is that this or that is "a problem" or an "issur gamur," which in and itself would not be so bad, would it be that they were to also offer solutions and workarounds.

      But they don't, nor do they -- apparently -- consider that they need do so.

      Delete

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