Sunday, January 3, 2010

London Beis Din & CER vs. EJF

In response to my request for people to send me any and all condemnation of EJF especially in connection with the Tropper scandal I just received this strong statement that was issued by the London Beis Din and the Conference of European Rabbis (CER).



  1. Well, no ambiguity there. Geirus- at least in the UK- will not be overseen by a youtube star.

    It seems the London Beis Din has fired the first real shot across the EJF bow.

  2. Who is the London Beis Din?

  3. There was a previous version of this from Kislev addressed to Rabbonim only that was earlier leaked on the comments to this blog.

    Is this version in Teves meant by the LBD to be publicized?

  4. British Agudah FresserJanuary 3, 2010 at 3:41 AM

    This is bizyonos for Rabbi Ehrentreu who used to be with the beis din.

    He should move to Israel already like he long ago said he would and stop acting as Tropper's toxic proxy in Europe.

  5. Is this an affort to Dayan Ehrentrau? One has to wonder why he gave Tropper the time of day in the first place

  6. It was sent to me only after the person had received permission that I could post it.

  7. Troppenstein's monsterJanuary 3, 2010 at 4:15 AM

    In case anyone was wondering, here is the backdrop of when Leib Tropper allegedly help force his talmid muvhak Barros into the South Fallsburg shul.

    May 02, 2005

    Rabbi, temple in legal battle
    By Ramsey Al-Rikabi
    Times Herald-Record

    South Fallsburg – Rabbi Isaac Gottlieb wouldn't let the two men stop him from giving a sermon three Saturdays ago.

    So what if one of them was the president of the synagogue?

    So what if he was fired as the rabbi in December?

    And so what if Gottlieb sued the synagogue in March to get his job back?

    Gottlieb kept going, or, as the court papers put it, continued "to ramble."

    On April 19, three days after that sermon, the South Fallsburg Hebrew Association filed its own lawsuit against Gottlieb.

    It seems the rabbi won't stop being the rabbi.

    The suit accuses Gottlieb of trying to ruin the reputation of the association and its members, and, among other things, creating, "animosity, dissension and confusion."

    The association is suing Gottlieb for $260,000 in damages.

    At the association's urging, state Supreme Court Judge Nicholas Clemente issued a restraining order against Gottlieb, barring him from entering the synagogue or representing himself as the association's rabbi.

    A hearing is set for May 17 in state Supreme Court in Sullivan County.

    "He is no longer welcome upon the premises," Steven Altman, the association's president, stated in an affidavit.

    Since Gottlieb filed his suit against the association, which it calls "frivolous" and "malicious" in its own court papers, he has given sermons at the synagogue at least three times in the past two months and sent out letters on South Fallsburg Hebrew Association letterhead, the association's court papers allege.

    No one involved in either lawsuit would comment.

    The association's suit also alleges that Gottlieb's complaint, filed in a Jewish rabbinical court after his firing, was intended to "blackball" the synagogue in the Orthodox Jewish community.

    And, the association claims, Gottlieb called the new rabbi, Yakov Barros, to say he was still the rabbi and no one could take his place.

    The association is reportedly sending out a letter, which explains the situation with Gottlieb to its members, along with its April newsletter.

    The three bold-letter items in the newsletter, in order, are "Happy Passover," "Isaac Gottlieb no longer associated with our shul" and "Yakov Barros comes on board as our new rabbi."

  8. this is a special for amhortz (watch)

    Yes there are many ehrliche yiden working for ejf llishem shomayim

    if you dont agree with r' ruvain feinsteins version of his farthers psak about being megayir intermarried couples prove he held not like that

    please show 1 exaple of a bais din that gave in to tropper and did a inproper giur

    when you are fighting the gerus done by ehrliche bOTTEY din you are being pogem a mishpacha for dorie doros, that is some issur motzei shem rah that has no forgivness forever

    when gedolie yisroel like moran rav elya ber support the mission of higher standerds of geruis than you should be mevatel your daas

    now to the tropper scandel

    I think the first thing that has to be understood is why have all our mainstream gedolim and Roshe Yeshivos kept quite on this . first we have to know if he was entrapped by his enemies? lets say he was not and lets also say that the allegations are 100 % true lets assume tropper is guilty as sin, a low life , a shmutz bag, a manipulator, a faker, a menuval , you name it he is all of the above (p.s. I think he is all of the above) why have the gedolim kept quite so far? here we have a individual who took the gedolim for a ride for a few years about how he was saving klal yisroel and than boom we find out he is a scum bag , abusing his power selling conversions etc

    I think the answer is simple the mission that the gedolim stood for has to continue no matter who is at the helm ,we need an oranazation to keep conversion bais dins in check

    We have all types of botei din in this country form rca to satmar all in the geirus business

    How do we make sure that the people being let in to klal yisroel are properly being mekabel mitzvos lets say we have a man who comes in front of a yu type bais din he wants to be frum but he wants to continue to listen to kol isha well a mainstream bais din will tell him sorry you have to be mekabel every thing . a YU bais din will tell him no problem in too days age we don’t even tell out bochurim not to sleep over at there dates house if its late just bring your teffilin with so no prob! etc im sure you can imagine all the scenarios well we have to weed out these types of geruis

    Coming up with proper standerds for all botei din set up by our gedolim and poskim will help a lot

    So the mission has to continue in spite of the personal failings of one individual and yes he never sucseeded in manipulating any bais din so thats why its a personall scandel
    i agree that no 1 person should have the power he had. he made the org so he had the power but that wont happen in the future

    I think that’s why they are keeping quite let it blow over and the org will be stronger with out this troubled individual. of course they are embarrassed but they don’t want to call into doubt the orgs good work or TO BE POGEM THE GERUIS AND BE MOTZEI SHEM RAH ON EHRLICHE GERIM

    Now a word about reb elya ber shlita he a great tzadik in a very tough position I don’t envy him but being that he is a Goan in kol hatorah koolah a tzadik yesod olam a near baal ruach hakodesh im going to trust he knows what he is doing reb elya ber in learning his lomdus is on the level of the brisker rav with geonus like reb aaron kotler

    He can wipe the floors with any body sitting on the eidah hacahredis no matter how many teshuva seforim they wrote or how many stripes are on there bekesh/frock (depending on the day of the week)


    In December 2004, Yakov Barros*, a young rabbi from the Lubavitcher branch of Orthodox Judaism, was 'hired', and he began reversing that decline and increasing attendance at the synagogue's Hebrew school.[1] *The rabbi of more than decade 'dismissed' at that time, Isaac Gottlieb, claimed he did not resign and was not fired, and after returning to the synagogue several times and being legally barred from reentering by a New York State Supreme Court restraining order, filed suit in the Sullivan County Courts against the shul in March 2005, as well as the Beth Din Religious Courts in New York City. While his status as Rabbi was upheld by the rabbinical courts (which is unenforceable without the cooperation of all parties involved in a dispute), Gottlieb's civil lawsuit against the synagogue and its leadership remains in the county courts due to numerous delays. In April 2005, the synagogue file a counter lawsuit against Gottlieb for $260,000 in damages, and the two lawsuits are now enjoined.


  11. My comment is not really about the current Tropper item, but about a past one. You posted the EJF press release titled "The truth about EJF". The last sentence of that release as posted here is hilarioulsy funny. It says, "EJF is answering the siren call of ...". Whoever wrote this did not know the meaning of the expression "siren call". It is interesting that the current version of the press release appearing on the EJF website has had this expression removed. Somebody must have told them. But if ever there was a Freudian slip, this is it. So that's his excuse: her "siren call" was irresistable!

  12. Lemaan kevod shamayim, the grubba am haaretz orthodoxjew should not be given an outlet here to post his shtussim.

    When EJF first publicized what they were doing, a rov approached roshei yeshiva in NY to complain they were not following what he knew to be R' Moshe's psak. It's not clear if anything was done about it. Later, Rav Bloch gave a shiur in Monsey saying as much and lambasting any rabbonim giving haskama to Tropper as doing it for shochad.

    No one in their right mind is saying that every EJF gerus is no good. We are saying that many need to be examined for known improprieties and that EJF must be closed because of the fraud and chilul Hashem. EJF caused more problems than it was supposed to fix. Another organization can take it's place that is untainted by Tropper associations.

    If the blind follower knew a little bit more, i don't think he would call R' Elya Ber the tzadik hador. True er ken lernen but how dare the blind follower put down R' Moishe Sternbuch who is much older than R' Elya Ber. And no one in this dor is like R' Aron Kotler. Does this loose canon even think before he speaks?

  13. Why was the "Shabbos update" post & all it's comments removed?

  14. Which batei din ruled against the Fallsburg shul?

    If we can post something in writing, it will put Tropper, R' Elya Ber, Chaim Blum & Barros in a tough spot.

  15. Men in the white coatsJanuary 3, 2010 at 12:17 PM

    It has come to our attention that orthodoxjew may need to be restrained for his own safety.

    Just take a look at his blogger profile and decide for yourself if he is a stable person. Start with the blog he named "Foreskin (bris mila) lament".

    He started a blog against the real estate mogul Dovid Lichtenstein. He is furious that Lichtenstein raised funds for Hillary Clinton, so he screams it is chilul Hashem and curses him to go bankrupt. (Evidently he feels that EJF is not a chilul Hashem and must keep operating)

    Here he started a blog to attack Pinchos Lipschutz in very bad grammatical form. Did the "baal ruach hakodesh" R' Elya Ber give him a heter to badmouth Lipschutz befarhesya?

    And last but not least, on his namesake blog, he calls Mendlowitz "gay" and uses nivul peh against Rabbi Maryles.

    Also his idolizing here of R' Elya Ber is hysterical. That picture of him with R' Yehuda Levin is a classic.

  16. Ezekiel 8 - Groups 12/13January 3, 2010 at 1:55 PM

    Question: Is this an [affront] affort to Dayan Ehrentrau? One has to wonder why he gave Tropper the time of day in the first place

    B'ezrat Hashem Yitbarach

    Answer: D' Ehrentrau needs to be affronted - ...

    Names will be named, numbers will be quoted, facts will be revealed. The pace of disclosure must be moderated, the reasons for which will become obvious as the process progresses.

    Ezekiel 8 - Groups 12/13
    Thank you and chazak v'ematz to all the Bnei Yisrael who remain acting l'shem Shamayim to correct and rid our Holy Nation of this sordid chillul Hashem foisted upon us by 'the blind shephards'.

    Information, comments or questions are welcomed:

  17. There is a phrase "too little too late", which perhaps applies here.
    Until December, before the scandal had come out, everythig was Kosher or glatt. EJF had the most prestigious haskomos, (and still doees apparently).
    Nobody in London or in Degel world was openign their mouths, and were happy to go along with the geirus gravy train.

    CER people were regulars at EJF conferences.
    Hence, the arguemnts brought by the LBD seem disingenuous. If they are proselytizing (which was Ok for the Haredi Gedolim), then why did CER go along with it until now?

    It is becasue the shock of the scandla has finally woken up some people in London, that they are now making these comments.

    If I may quote a verse from tehillim 15:

    ה כַּסְפּוֹ, לֹא-נָתַן בְּנֶשֶׁךְ-- וְשֹׁחַד עַל-נָקִי, לֹא לָקָח:
    עֹשֵׂה-אֵלֶּה-- לֹא יִמּוֹט לְעוֹלָם.

    He that putteth not out his money on interest, nor taketh a bribe against the innocent.
    He that doeth these things shall never be moved

  18. I think that orthodoxjew is connected to Tropper.

    Tropper has hated Mendlowitz with a passion since he was one of the relatively early ones to expose him and EJF. Tropper has been badmouthing Mendlowitz to his followers for years.

    orthodoxjew on his flagship blog also insults Rav Eidensohn with the Mr. title, just like disbarred lawyer Abady from Tropper's inner circle.

    Tropper also does not have a good relationship with Lipschutz, the nephew of R' Elya Svei.

  19. Sorry, I don't buy anything without signatures.

  20. What does R' Elya Ber think of this?

    R' Aron Kotler ztl said not to listen to the music of Shlomo Carlebach, a cousin of Leib Tropper.

    The 26-year-old Barros, originally from Brazil, is new to town. His mission is to package Judaism for an audience weaned on MTV.

    "Hey, I like Korn and I like Metallica," said Barros, speaking of the L.A. and San Francisco-area hardcore metal bands. Barros, who also cites conga player Pancho Sanchez and the late Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach as influences, envisions BATI evolving into a kollel

  21. ok so yur going to attack my other blogs my blog about the book forskins lament was going to dfend bris milah against this nut job but bh the book by auchlander never took off my blog about the yated please if there is any worse curroption its the yated were the ads devision and the editing is one person we all see that when lakewood yunger liet were attachted in the yated for calling fraude on

  22. contin . attacking lakewood yungerliet for calling a person on fraud because he spent thousands of dollars advetizing in the y ated and yes david lichtenstein made a huge chillul hashem etc now for uoj a mad who for all the good hes done it wont get it out of hell for writing reb elchonon was a merderer . now for the eidah they are a curropt bunch should we start with shteinzaltz who they defende

  23. "orthodoxjew" Shame on you, being mevazah the Rabbonim of the Eidah- you neede to do tuchvah

  24. orthodoxjew needs to be banned just like Roni was.

    And that's very unorthodox of him to have no rachmonus on Shalom Auslander. True he is a nut but he went through tremendous abuse that made him snap.

    There was a yungerman in Lakewood who also snapped and became an apikoris and menuval but because it came from being sick beyond his control he was still treated with a lot of respect by the roshei yeshiva.

  25. I have asked around with yotzei Brisk from England. There is no surprise that Rav Ehrentreu (and also possibly his son) is hooked up with Tropper.

    There is also simmering anger that a Brisker like R' Elya Ber is not adhering to the Brisker shita of avoiding shvartz gelt like the plague. And R' Elya Ber does have a history of either defending or doing nothing about several menuvolim and ganovim. Vehamayvin yovin.

  26. "The 26-year-old Barros..."

    R. Barros is much older than 26.

  27. "The 26-year-old Barros..."

    R. Barros is much older than 26.

  28. To clear up what Barros (Tropper Proxy) said:

    1. That Barros increased attendance at the Hebrew School. In fact, Barros effectively closed down the Hebrew School.

    2. Barros' first Shabbat speech as "Rabbi" was to push legalization of marijiuana and tell how much Rabbi Feinstien wanted him to have the job instead of the previous rabbi, who is a quiet but sincere man.

    3. At that time, Barros said he was sending his children to the modern orthodox Hebrew day school in Woodbourne, and would never send his kids to the South Fallsburg yeshiva's "hasidic" grade school.

    4. It seems that he tried to take over the day school politically. When that did not happen, he switched his kids to the yeshiva.

  29. The shul for many decades was not really frum. Now they call themselves modern orthodox which is why Barros joined the RCA.

    But in reality it is just another tool to be used by Tropper.

  30. Its being reported B"H at 5 towns jewish news

  31. The 26-year-old Barros, originally from Brazil, is new to town. His mission is to package Judaism for an audience weaned on MTV.
    Yes, Brazil, It was mentioned on another thread that this is where Kaplan, Guma and Jamie are from.

    Also, the rabbi who replaced Barros in San Francisco is a Torch rabbi and rabbi Wender’s buddy

  32. Barros is a Portuguese name, common in the American Southwest, South America and the Philippines.

    Rabbi Yaakov Barros attended Kol Yaakov/Horizons describes himself as a "Baal Teshuva" from Brazil.

    The Ashkenazic community in Brazil arrived beginning in the mid 19th century. The Ashk. community in Brazil which has been mainly Reform and Conservative since its inception has always had a very high intermarriage and assimilation rate.

    The Sephardic Jewish community came to Sao Paulo in the 1950s and 60s. There was not any Sephardic community in Brazil before that time.

    There also has never been any recognized Orthodox conversion in Brazil.

    The Sephardic community in Sao Paulo is culturally very French and also very Arabian. It's members do not identify themselves as "Brazilians" but as "Syrians", "Lebanese", "Egyptians" etc.

  33. rabbo eidensohn i want to let you know that i saw chaim blum talking to many different askonim here on lakewood and he kept on repeating that all the gedoilim are behind him

  34. Never mind that R' Aron had a problem with Tropper's menuvoldik cousin Carlebach.

    What about the "heavy metal" promoted by Barros like Korn & Metallica? Hard core metal is pure filth that is nothing but inducement to illicit drugs & znus. This is much worse than any problem mentioned about love songs in the poskim. Out of all the music out there, this is what piques his interest? This is also a tayna on the OU's NCSY whose auspices he was working under out West.

  35. Besides Carlebach, Barros cites the conga music of Pancho Sanchez as his inspiration.

    The conga is a tall, narrow, single-headed Cuban drum with African antecedents. They were originally used in Afro-Caribbean religious music (Voodoo?)

  36. ok so now i work for LT well i never met the guy or spoke to him or herd him speak i dont care for the sleez bag i only care to defend reb elya ber`s kovod. with all the litvishe gedolim against slifkin i was wondering if the eidah defended him like with shteinaltz if someone can enlighten me i would appreciate it also i remeber reb yisroel yakov ficher from my brisk days he was an amazing man

  37. to the guy who said that rav revains understanding of his fathers psak is wrong based on a shiur from rabbi bloch i think yull need a better source than that

  38. Men in the white coatsJanuary 4, 2010 at 11:36 AM

    Yes, the guy who admits bapeh malei he is a "hocker" and according to his blogger profile runs a blog called "honestly krum" says a better source is needed.

    Rav Bloch was the first to speak publicly and elucidated everything in a shiur. It is clear to any honest talmid chochom that EJF is distorting R' Moshe's psak.

  39. Men in the white coatsJanuary 4, 2010 at 11:48 AM

    orthodoxjew is the classic example of chossid shoyteh (and a Brisker wannabe who just wishes R' Avrom Yehoshua let him in).

    The tzettl against Slifkin was organized by the ultra-lowlife criminal Leib Pinter and it's wording was exaggerated to make him into a rasha when it was just a hashkofo issue of not going with certain shitos today. It is a gnay to have your name on it, not a shevach.

    Gedolim like R' Zelig Epstein refused to sign. They smelled a rat because a known tinof like Pinter was the one running around like a kovod zucher to get the signatures.

    But it's ok for the hedyot gedolim that Pinter has a musser sefer published by Artscroll when he is a chotay umachatee ess horabim that sold treif labeled as kosher and made tremendous chilul Hashem by stealing hundreds of millions of dollars.

  40. Anonymous said...
    "i saw chaim blum talking to many different askonim here on lakewood and he kept on repeating that all the gedoilim are behind him"

    Is that what Kollel is today, an entre into politics and power?

    By the way, "all" the rabbonim were behind Tropper, Barros said R' Reuven was behind him, and now "all" the Rabbonim are behind Blum.

    We know it's not all the Rabbonim. It seems to be all the vocal money centered rabbonim. Globalization seems to have hit Orthodox Judaism. What we used to say about Imams controlling Moslems has moved to us.

  41. Men in the white coats said...
    " and made tremendous chilul Hashem by stealing hundreds of millions of dollars."

    I agree, but we seem to concentrate on the chilul hashem aspect a lot.

    Don't forget that g'nayvuh and g'zayluh are aveiros bein udum l'chaveiro, and that victims get hurt. And that you are supposed to separate yourself from a rushuh.

    You shouldn't have anything to do with him, let alone empower him to make money and gain power from publishing s'forim.

  42. ok men in white coats maybe take the coat off and go in and through away the key, anyways i love the way you attach my blog honestly crum is a play on the MO blog that goes by the name honestly frum a true hater of the yeshiva world , now about r' bloch i dont wana speak about him in public but lets just say hes not a source contact me at my email on my blog and ill explain

  43. now to the guy in the coat and hood , your true colors have been exposed you hate tropper because of slifkin i think thats were mainstream klal yisroel and the more vocal bloggers part . most people like my self who just think tropper is a sleaz bag but agree slifkin is a threat to emunas yisroel or not the radical bloggers attacking ejf should close down its the rca and othe open minded proslifkin crowd who were caught then and now want blode

  44. p.s. i learnt on press st for a few years p.p.s i agree leib pinter is a gonev , its funny when you see people who distroyed others lives through the polotics of personall distruction get a very public onesh recently iv seen it happen more and more thats another reason why we have to be care full what we write and say and be trully leshem shomayim

  45. Men in the white coatsJanuary 4, 2010 at 5:21 PM

    Rav Bloch was the first who spoke up. If you think he is irrelevant it doesn't matter because at least in this inyan he is right.

    If you want another source, ask Rav Sternbuch what he thinks.

  46. Men in the white coatsJanuary 4, 2010 at 5:25 PM

    Many poskim who I agree with are anti-Slifkin but also anti- what Tropper and his friends did to destroy the man.

    Just because his seforim are problematic, it doesn't give license to ruin a man's life.

    And some Charedishe roshei yeshiva don't even hold the seforim are a problem.

    So will the unstable orthodoxjew now start a blog to bash R' Shmuel Kaminetzky & R' Aron Feldman who don't even have a problem with Slifkin's seforim?

  47. Men in the white coatsJanuary 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM

    Why do people suspect that orthodoxjew and hocker are the same person?

    Could it be their silly blogs with even sillier titles that attack every perceived threat to yeshivishkeit?

    It's gorr unyeshivish of you to be blogging bichlal. Farshteisst?

  48. Both R' Aron Feldman & R' Shmuel Kaminetzky have spoken out against Slifkin.

  49. Men in the white coatsJanuary 4, 2010 at 6:53 PM

    I have not seen R' Aron & R' Shmuel criticize Slifkin.

    If they did like you say maybe it was on a very narrow point as they definitely hold that at least some of the seforim that were banned may be used.

  50. Pinter hardly got an onesh in proportion to his tremendous avlos.

    His "kosher" meat & cheese sandwiches did not get him driven out of town like Moish Finkel. Farkert, he built himself up into a shem davar with the money he stole from the US Education Dept. He made his son the 9th grade rebbe in Mirrer yeshiva, got himself a desk in their office and got his relatives on to Artscroll's payroll.

    Nothing happened to him after the staged jewelry heist at his own store because no one could prove anything.

    He went to jail again now because he stole from banks as well as thousands of individuals who lost their homes in his mortgage fraud and are left on the streets hating frum Jews.

    Sounds to me like he got off pretty easy for squashing Slifkin.

  51. funny i think there is a picture of the so called slifkin defender ras shmuel kamentzky at a tropper event i wonder how that happened p.s. the new type of polotics of personall distruction has made its way to the frum world i read on slifkins website that reb elya ber is mostly involved with kabbolah together with r shapiro and weintraub i thought wow a rosh yeshiva who saing shiur for

  52. You think everyone that takes money from Kaplan agrees with every case of Tropper destroying reputations?

    R' Shmuel's brother R' Nosson Kaminetzky by the way has been the most outspoken Charedi rabbi to defend Slifkin.

  53. When has R. Nosson Kamenetzky ever defended Slifkin?

  54. >I have not seen R' Aron & R' Shmuel criticize Slifkin.<

    I'm pretty sure they both signed the ban against him -- eventhough they had both given him haskomos earlier.

    At least that's how I recall it. You can verify it yourself by looking at Slifkin's site and following the links.

  55. It's interesting that Slifkin keeps coming up in this discussion, even though he has not been involved in Geirus or EJF.

    I think it gives further evidence for my theory on how to rise up the ranks in the Haredi world:

    1) Find a moderate, modern, zionist or leftie rabbi.

    2) Make a big noise and accuse them of heresy.

    3) Find a few Haredi Gedolim to back you up.

    4) Create a sense of unity amongst otherwise warring haredi groups.

    5) Bingo, you have just become another Harav and maybe haGaon.!!!

  56. wow edie that was briliant !!!! anyways i have decided to stop commenting becuse i relize that just a handfull of people take this place seriosely and bloggers like men in white coats . am haoretz (watch) etc are all the same guy so good by i should look later for some good ridance posts

  57. Kol ha-posel be-mumo poselJanuary 5, 2010 at 7:23 PM

    orthodoxjew = hocker


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