Tuesday, January 19, 2010

EJF - How tropper spent his way into rabbinic elite


Tablet

n May 2007, Leib Tropper arrived in Phoenix, Arizona, to preside over a grand conclave of prospective converts to Judaism sponsored by his Eternal Jewish Family organization, which offered "Cadillac conversions" to non-Jews as part of an effort to seize control of the conversion process outside of Israel. Buoyed by a $4.8 million infusion of cash from the billionaire Thomas Kaplan, an oil and mining mogul who is currently president of the board at the 92nd Street Y in New York, the fast-talking rabbi with global ambitions and a smooth line of patter had offered would-be Jews a special treat: an all-expenses paid weekend of discussions on topics like "Becoming Part of the Jewish Family" at the Arizona Biltmore, a spa resort on 39 acres at the foot of Phoenix Mountain that is part of the Waldorf-Astoria chain.

While offers of Ayurvedic massages and luxury accommodation may seem at odds with the somber, discouraging face that ultra-Orthodoxy has traditionally turned to prospective converts, Tropper, by most accounts, did not seem particularly interested in relaxing halachic codes to accommodate the modern world. A biblical literalist, he played an active role in an effort by a group of ultra-Orthodox rabbis to ban the books of another rabbi, Nosson Slifkin, who believed that the world is older than the Jewish calendar—that is, 5,770 years. In 2006, among his other duties, he took it upon himself to retroactively invalidate the conversion of a woman who subsequently dared to violate ultra-Orthodox codes of modesty by wearing pants. [...]

30 comments :

  1. EJF is not reaching out to inntermarrieds couples? Just waiting to "be there" for those who of their own volition w/o ulterior motives are looking to convert? Really?

    http://www.jewishaz.com/issues/story.mv?070420+universal


    With intermarriage rates skyrocketing, a traditional resistance to converting intermarried spouses is counterproductive, said Rabbi Leib Tropper, who heads Eternal Jewish Family.

    "It would be devastating if we ignored them," Tropper said, adding that Maimonides' teachings on the subject almost prophetically address modern issues of intermarriage and conversion.

    "According to Jewish law before Maimonides, there was a suggestion in the Talmud not to make conversions for the sake of marriage," Tropper said, "but Maimonides said it's better, without compromising the standards of conversion, to try to get the non-Jewish spouse to convert."

    ReplyDelete
  2. Daas Torah,
    Why would you link to such a hateful article? It bashes Torah Jewry as much as it does Tropper!

    ReplyDelete
  3. anon said:

    Why would you link to such a hateful article? It bashes Torah Jewry as much as it does Tropper!

    David said:
    you are right, but it is the painful truth ,here on DT, the Rav has trying for weeks to adress this issue of silence and the damage its caused /causing, slowly we see how correct he was

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  4. Daas Torah,
    Why would you link to such a hateful article? It bashes Torah Jewry as much as it does Tropper!
    ==================
    The chillul hashem was not created by the article it is merely reporting the facts. If you chose to ignore the horrible stench that comes from tropper and company - don't be upset about the people who notice and complain about it.

    The most important job a Jew can do is kiddush hashem and prevention or stopping of chillul hashem

    see http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/01/ejf-for-kiddush-hashem-can-even-uproot.html

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dear Daas Torah

    whilst you have criticised certain Great Rabbis for their involvement in this mess, you are refraining from saying anything against others. However, this article implicates the other Gedolim.
    Also, your posts on Hillul Hashem imply that you can take this even further...

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  6. Daas Torah is correct, ignoring a festering cancer, will not make it go away, treatment and acknowledging it will. Tropper is a fraud. He is now busy trying to appoint figure heads to run Horizon’s/ Bais Achiezer, so that he can still have access to all of Tom Kaplan’s money. An investigation is underway, and it will be interesting to see who he appoints as his figure heads “replacement”. And all the while he thinks he is fooling everybody. Well I got news for you Tropperoo, you can fool some Rabbonim and those few who follow you like blind cattle, but you can't fool the Sheriff when he comes a knocking at your door with silver handcuffs.

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  7. Demanding that the magnitude and details of the Tropper matter be kept under wraps is a lot like saying 'No to cancer, no chemotherapy!'

    We had better fix what is wrong and we had better do it quickly. Excising cancer means you remove it all, not just the ugly parts you can see.

    Sometimes the medicine just tastes bad. Nevertheless, you have to take it.

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  8. The gist of the article is that the rabbis stay quiet and she made an analogy to the Chatholic Church.

    But then, only after all the lawsuits the Church started to take clergy child abuse seriously.

    One wonder, Rav Sturnbuch who did not fear Tropper when he was in the peak of his power and was never got corrupted by his money, why he does he stay quiet?

    If Newsweek magazine has Common Wisdom for rabbis it would be R’ Sternbuch up, R’ Elyashiv Down

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  9. Monsey hedyot has no business badmouthing Rav Elyashev. He sits locked in a room to learn 14 hours a day and is misled by hucksters trying to get Kaplan's money or trying to save themselves being exposed on the Tropper tapes not yet publicized.

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  10. When our children see Chillul Hashem and we say nothing; this sends the message that this is what Judaism is all about, C"V.

    When our children see and experience Chillul Hashem and we are open and honest with our children that this is not what our Torah commands then our children will be capable fo rejecting the behavior, rejecting the rasha and moving on with their lives rather than rejecting Judaism altogether.

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  11. It is just such a positive education for us and our children reading all these posts, especially how to be critical of our Rabbis except when thay do, act ,and say what we feel they should say, act and do.

    It just warms the heart

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  12. Kovod haTorah said...


    "Monsey hedyot has no business badmouthing Rav Elyashev. He sits locked in a room to learn 14 hours a day and is misled by hucksters trying to get Kaplan's money or trying to save themselves being exposed on the Tropper tapes not yet publicized."
    =============

    To refer to someone who is not aware of the churban going on in his name misleads the public into thinking that the person is on top of what is going on.

    Believe it or not, this is a common problem in yeshivos, where a chevra man talmid picks up the phone and often demands all the pruttim of a personal case, then gives limited information to the one being asked the shayloh. The talmid gets to relay the psak that he wanted.

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  13. Anonymous said...

    It is just such a positive education for us and our children reading all these posts, especially how to be critical of our Rabbis except when thay do, act ,and say what we feel they should say, act and do.

    It just warms the heart
    =================

    Glad to hear these posts warm your heart. But this blog is not for children nor is it those who believe that the rabbinical leaders are omniscient and omimpotent and infallible. In fact those in this latter group should not be reading this blog either nor should they have an internet connection. What is your reason for spending time on the internet and reading my blog? What do you expect it to say?

    One of the facts that you might find counter to your preconceptions is that the information in these posts in fact has been requested by rabbis and roshei yeshivos who feel that it is important for gedolim to know about them. That is because they can't get this information through their normal channels.

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  14. Daas Toirah is dead.

    Long live the Torah!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Jersey Girl - This divorced Kohen needs to find an available woman who thinks like you do! itchiemayer

    ReplyDelete
  16. BELOW IS A RESPONSE THAT WAS SEEN ON OTHER BLOGS TO HOFFMANS ARTICLE. (it on Tablet too).
    [btw Tablet is a viciously anti Chareidi blog. I can not for the life of me understand why R'Eidenson would be soooo happy with his victory in joining hands with anti charidi blogs in causing such a chilul hashem. Yeh we know the whole story -R' Shternbuch support you. My foot!]

    "As others have already claimed in the past a little fact checking and some research show how the content of Hoffmans articles are constantly full of factualy untruths or half truths, or what others have claimed to be “sloppy reporting”.
    Here are some examples: (I encourage others to varify for yourselfs the sources that I will bring which clearly discredit the authers content in many areas. The sources below are availbable for everyone to see).

    1.Hoffman writes: “In 2006, among his other duties, he took it upon himself to retroactively invalidate the conversion of a woman who subsequently dared to violate ultra-Orthodox codes of modesty by wearing pants.”

    FACT CHECKER:
    A. Wikepedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leib_Tropper (which quotes an EJF press release, 30 May 2008) regarding this incident: “Tropper denied this accusation, claiming the woman had in fact been breaking the Shabbat since immediately after her conversion, and that his role was confined to relaying this information to the appropriate authorities.”
    B. According to Jewish law a conversion can not be invalitated by a single person, but requires a Jewish court (Bait Din). R’ Tropper does not have a Bait Din nor is he part of one.

    2.Hoffman writes: “but [R' Tropper] splintered off to start Kol Yaakov in 1981 with help from a late New York couple, Louis J. Septimus and his wife, Edythe, for whom the school’s building is named.”

    FACT CHECKER:
    After fact checking with the kol Yaakov faculty and Septimus family members they have both stated that the Septimus families invovemant in Kol Yaakov was not untill the late 90’s. This can be varified by asking any of the Kol Yaakov faculty, or anyone from the Septimus family.

    Cont.

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  17. Cont.
    "3.Hoffamn writes: “In the weeks since Tropper’s downfall, none of the rabbis who facilitated his meteoric rise in the Jewish world—men whose lives are devoted to the pious observance of God’s word—have stepped forward to publicly condemn Tropper for his violations of ultra-Orthodox codes on modesty and extramarital sex, let alone for his apparent willingness to use his position of religious authority to exploit the single mother of two young children for sex”

    FACT CHECKER:
    A. TABLET MAGAZINE, Jan. 14Th 2010 , http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/23581/converted/ : “Yet speculation about her relationship with Tropper—which, ORAND MAINTAINED IN HER EMAIL TO TABLET, NEVER ACTUALLY INVOLVED DIRECT PHYSICAL CONTACT—have continued on ultra-Orthodox blogs”

    B. Failedmassia.com Jan. 14th 2010, http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2010/01/exclusive-shannon-orand-in-her-own-words- 567.html quotes Orand: “That’s when I bought the camera. I didn’t have time to set it up. The date’s wrong on the video. When I saw it I said, oh, that’s wrong....
    [THE REST IS TOO EXPLICIT TOO REQUOTE, BUT IN THE INTERVIEW SHE CLEARLY STATES THAT THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL ACUSATION]

    C.VosIsNeias.com Jan.7Th 2010, http://www.vosizneias.com/46424/2010/01/07/jeusalem-woman-in-ejf-scandal-speaks-out-after-reciving-conversion-to-judaism-in-israel/ quotes Orand as stating that she signed a written statemant that there was no sexual relation with R’ Tropper.

    4. Heres another out of the box example of Hoffman’s fabrications. On Jan. 13Th she writes in Tablet Magazine http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/23483/con-game/ : (regarding an EJF rabbinic conference) “Amar turned up, along with Ashkenazic Chief Rabbi Yonah Metzger and Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv”
    FACT CHECKER:
    Rabbi Elyashav was not there. This has been confirmed by conference paticipants as well as R’ Elyashav’s family. This can be Varified by asking either of the above.

    There are more examples of HoffmanSsfabrications in her articles. The examples above are only a few samples.

    In adition to being factualy dishonest, she discredits herself by quoting sources as unorthodoxjew blog. The equivelent to that would be an axample of someone writing an article on the catholic priest sex scandal and quoting Hustler Magazine as an example of the common church-goer’s view regarding the issue.
    She also quotes from Daastorah blog. The blog owner is someone who has had a personal fallout with Tropper years ago. He constantly smears and gossips about Rabbinic leaders. He like Mendlowitz of unorthodoxjew have a strong hatred for the Chariedi world. He is obviously hardly a source to show a sample of what the general orhtodox view on the issue is.
    Such tactics of reporting is fankly beyond the pail.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Recipients and PublicityJanuary 20, 2010 at 11:12 AM

    "Arthur" sounds a lot like pro-Tropper defender "Roni" or his twin, he even types like Roni with all the crazed language.

    Question for Arthur/Roni/Tropper: Is is "muttar" to solicit sex in exchange for conversions from prospective converts?

    Is it Troppers' voice on those disgusting tapes?

    Why was Leba Tropper involved in the scandal and why didn't she stop her husband instead of joining him in threesomes as she admits and as videos show? Or are threesomes halachically allowed?

    Roni/Tropper was always good at citing krumme "sources" for everything he/EJF did, so this should not be that hard for Arthur/Roni/Tropper either.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Tropper's troll Arthur uses insignificant issue like if the Septimus family involvement began in the late 90 or earlier,

    He uses lies to say that Tropper/EJF has no beis din, Of course they have their own beis din, before it was rabinovitch who then left them, do you say that Tropper did not pay Rabinovitch ? The wikipedia entry changed all the time by Tropper's trolls who delete unflattering details,

    or he attacks the UOJ who single handedly put child molesters in prison and exposed crooks like Tropper!

    What did you do to save Jewish children ?

    The nain issue is as RAP said, did Tropper try to solicit sex from his "cutie pie", did he try to get her to have sex with Amir and the Satmar guy?

    Did he try to get her having Ménage à trois with his own wife ? Is it Liba in the video ?

    is it Tropper's heavy breathing on the tapes?

    Those questions should be answered not the exact timing of the Septimus family involvement with Kol Yaakov.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Regarding the UOJ, It was him who wrote those prophetic words in 2007!


    You Goin' Down Tropper!

    Eternal Jewish Fraudster - Leib Tropper

    Preys on the weak, naive and vulnerable - Beware of this thief !

    ReplyDelete
  21. Lehotzi misheker hafrauds (who 97% covered for his own party and the recent attempt to sound as if he attacks his party is not sufficient for the large cover up for the party that took 770.000$ for helping the fraudulent fake conversion they arragned for his shikssah) and der krummer (I can never beat him in his skills as der krummer, he is the krummer beetzem mehusooy with a skill of writing long treatises (sour chollents) that says nothing) and der shlechter(he does not realize how he maliciously attacks good people who stand on his way with a vicious shelchtzkeyt) I am writing this to state:

    That Roni clearly and unequivocally does not hold Leib Tropper to be innocent in the sex scandal. He is guilty unless he is able to prove his innocence(which he CANNOT).

    One does not need to go past the tapes, to see that he traded gerut for znoot! There is no two ways about it. He was involved in maasse kiur with a goya, asking her to be boel a yid, when haboel aramit kanoim pogim boh and involved in this tape with maasse eretz mitzrayim. He did this while hiding under the guise of attemtping to establish "higher universal standards for conversion", and at the time doing maasse ervas haaretz and e$$$$$nan zonah (taking the millions from tom kaplan to be able to do this) to bring these mechir kelovim into kerekm yisroel and Beis Hashem that he falsely used as the banner of his organization to "preseve kedushat yisroel".

    ReplyDelete
  22. The "fact checking" from Arthur (who calls himself Charles in the Tablet comments) is a farce.

    Tropper can and has manipulated batei din.

    Kol Yaakov and the Septimus family are not reliable sources on when the financial arrangement started.

    http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2010/01/among-friends.html

    You can read about Louis Septimus in the comments here. UOJ is not "Hustler". He is a rabbi who has exposed and had arrested all kinds of pedophiles and thieves.

    His rebuttal of Tropper's pimping is simply incoherent.

    What "personal fallout" did Rabbi Eidensohn have with Tropper? Even Tropper admitted on his blog that they have never met.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The Septimus family lived in the house behind Kol Yaakov, they were always friendly, but the big break came much later when they gave added land to Kol yaakov to meet zoning requirements. Beryl Septimus, their son, used to daven in yeshiva, but beyond that tey were not involved.

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  24. I wonder when the Rabbonim of Monsey will come up with a psak for Tropper similar like they did for Mordy tendler.

    http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/HaravWosner'sT'shuvah.pdf

    ReplyDelete
  25. I wonder when the Rabbonim of Monsey will come up with a psak for Tropper similar like they did for Mordy tendler.

    I am afraid not. Tendler had yichus but not (much) money, Tropper has no (much) yichus but has a lot of money.

    An interesting thing that one of Tendler staunch supporters was Tropper’s buddy Nachum Eisnenstein, which to his beis-din tendler run to when the RCA expelled him.

    But hey, give Tendler a credit, he did not try to get his congrgant to have sex with his wife.

    Maybe Tendler’s minyan should merge with kol yaakov and start counseling service

    ReplyDelete
  26. Recipients of publicity franticly screeches:
    "Question for Arthur/Roni/Tropper: Is is "muttar" to solicit sex in exchange for conversions from prospective converts?"
    Answer: No. I never heard of anyone that ever did that. Niether the Gedolei Hador nor most frum jews (sorry to pop your bubble. Is it really air in your haed?) believe that anyone they know did that.
    On the other hand a handful of bored and obsessed bloggers who as usual know better than the rest of the Jews and the gedolim became audio technicians ovenight. They are also very good at convienantly ignoring half of the audios that they took upon themselves to "authenticate".


    "Is it Troppers' voice on those disgusting tapes?"
    Answer:Possibly parts of it. No one knows how many people are talking on the tapes. No one knows how many hours of Tropper talking was needed in order to piece the tape together. No one knows who he was talking to.
    No one accept the you (the bubble guy) of course.

    "Why was Leba Tropper involved in the scandal[?]"
    Answer: The scandal that you fantasize is true? Im not sure you gotta ask yourself that question.

    "..and why didn't she stop her husband instead of joining him in threesomes[?]"
    Answer: Menuval! You have a sick mind. (You might as well said foursome or more for the same price)

    "..as she admits"
    Answer: hmm.. did she admit that to you?
    actauly on the tape that I heard she says the whole thing is fake, and she has no idea when or where or who the people are in the video ...that she says was pieced together.

    "and as videos show?"
    The video that she talks about on the tape that you authenticated, where she says that the video is fake? Not sure, ask the one that made it.


    "Or are threesomes halachically allowed?"
    Answer: No. You should learn some Jewish law. (Are you even jewish?)

    "Roni/Tropper was always good at citing krumme "sources" for everything he/EJF did, so this should not be that hard for Arthur/Roni/Tropper either."

    Answer:The sources I cite are the sources that you cite. The ones you "authenticated". Im just shoving "your sources" right back in your face.
    I know it hurts.

    (Hey do you hear the air hissing out of the bubble?)

    ReplyDelete
  27. וְהַחוּט הַמְשֻׁלָּשׁ לֹא בִמְהֵרָה יִנָּתֵקJanuary 20, 2010 at 9:55 PM

    I think the allegation of threesome between Tropper, Leba and Shannon is wrong. According to the tapes he only said he wanted to watch not to participate, he even described elaborate settings where he comes to to the room after they started.

    No, I am not going to listen to the tapes again, it is too disgusting, anyone who listens to tapes should afterward go to the mikva and take a very long shower.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Please stop the dialogue with Arthur.

    Blogs have been posting that the world is split, with the masses avoiding talking about the scandal and some furious bloggers demanding action by the gedolim.

    Now Arthur is starting a ridiculous argument, all so that he can say that most people don't think it's real and that even the blogs are split. Such PR will help him with individuals if he has charisma and may help him in court.

    The whole subject of authentication has been covered ad nauseum here. Arguing each prahtt with someone who was able to argue his way into upsetting the whole world of geirus and going from prince to pauper overnight is not in anybody's best interest. Any time you prove something, he will slide to something else and later say that every detail has been questioned by bloggers.

    Let it go.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Tropper, et al, would do well to recall that gerim, like the rest of us are entitled to rachamim- 'metoch shelo lishma, ba lismah'.

    You know what I miss most from my yeshiva days?

    The quiet.

    There were hardly any kanoim. Our rebbeim loved us as talmidim and not as their soldiers.

    Our rebbeim would not tolerate injustice and hurt of any kind- 'Tzedek tzedek tirdorf' actually meant something and wsn't for 'schar limud'.

    Achdus meant something. No one was treif or unworthy, only
    'lost'. We really were araiving ze la zeh- we we were taught not to hate anyone.

    Even our mussar shmussen ended with a tempering of the strictness- the RBSO expected effort and not only measurable results. Through Ahavas yisroel came the best midos.

    Those days are gone.

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  30. I am sure that people who never met Tropper still feel disgusted by the tapes. But for people who know him, dealt with him, shook his hand, went to his simcha it is much worst!

    When you listen to the tapes, it is not about a stranger it is about someone you know and you feel like you have a personal connection with this thing, yuck.....

    ReplyDelete

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