Guest post by Joe Orlow
What is the Torah World?
The "Torah World" is a worldwide network of Jewish communities. The communities are centered on the study and observance of the Torah. The men in these communities study the Torah in schools called Yeshivas. Another term used synonymously with "Torah World" is "Yeshiva World".
The children in the Torah World are sent to schools where all students are Jewish. The children study the Torah. To satisfy civil law requirements, and to prepare for working at a job, the schools also have classes in math, science, language, etc. Many communities have separate schools for boys and girls. Most of the students continue with the schooling until graduation, typically when the students are about eighteen years old. Students then often attend yeshivas (for the men) and seminaries (for the women). Marriage follows. Marriages are often arranged, with the bride and groom both raised in the Torah World. Families of ten or more children are common.
There is no strict definition of which families are in the Torah World, and which are not. Torah World families generally are part of a greater Jewish community in the cities where they reside. A general rule is that the men of the Torah World wear black suits and black hats, and will attend services, or Daven, at a Yeshiva and/or at Shuls affiliated with a Yeshiva, as well as study there.
In broad strokes, this is the Torah World.
It should be noted that there is no central governing authority in the Torah World. There are councils of Rabbis in various regions of the world. These councils, in turn, stay in communication with each other. In the U.S., Agudath Israel of America has a "Moetzes Gedolai HaTorah", "Council of Torah Sages", which self-selects Rabbis to discuss matters of import to the Torah World communities in the U.S. Each community may also have an independent council, or Vaad, and an independent Jewish Court, or Bais Din, that deals with, and decides matters of, Jewish Law, or Halacha.
Through marriage ties and through having ties to the same Torah leaders, communities in the Torah World are close-knit. In some Torah World communities, the homes of Torah families are in close proximity, to the extent that Torah World families form the majority of the population for many blocks within a city. In other communities, Torah World Jews live in near each other, but also among non-Jews and non-Torah World Jews.
The interaction of Torah World Jews with outsiders can be friendly and open in the public realm, but is also strictly proscribed, and limited, in the private realm.
How are families supported in the Torah World?
In some Torah World communities, the husbands do not generally work, outside of teaching or running camps or being paid to study Torah. Some of the money to support these Torah World families comes from tuition and camp fees paid by other Torah World families. Much of the income originates outside the Torah World from non-Torah World Jewish families who send their children to Torah World schools and camps, or non-Torah World Jews who donate money to these schools and camps.
Many husbands in Torah World families do work, and in some Torah World communities it may be most men. Other income streams for families with or without husbands with jobs or investments may be from wives working, support from relatives, support from government programs, etc. It's important to note that sitting and learning Torah full-time is still held to be the desired way of living even by those men who work. Working is seen as a fallback plan when the option of learning full time is not possible for reasons such as an unwillingness to live in near poverty.
However, even for those men who work, life can be on the financial edge, as staggering tuitions, camp fees, and cost of living in a nice neighborhood can drain the resources of even families with two incomes from husband and wife who have substantial income from professional employment. This is because poorer parents are given breaks in tuition costs. The upshot is that the wealthier families pay full tuition that essentially subsidizes the poorer families. This setup can be a disincentive for some men in destitute Torah World families to seek employment, since a large part of extra income may just go to pay tuition increases.
What is the standard of living in the Torah World?
The large families, relatively high percentage of non-working men, and cost of schooling, cost of Kosher food, etc., along with the unspoken obligation to support married children and grandchildren, leads to widespread poverty, near poverty, or just financial desperation.
How does the poverty impact the quality of life?
Many families struggle to survive in Torah communities. They willingly accept deprivation because of their high level of dedication to keeping the Torah. In some families, the women have to work to support the family, and are also responsible for the upkeep of the home, food shopping and preparation, and raising the children. It is not unusual to find women who have lost their idealism along the way, or who never fully embraced the Torah World mode of life, and who thus divorce their husbands. Constant lack of finances typically puts pressure on families, and that unrelieved pressure can be a contributing factor in divorce.
Large families can mean that the population of a Torah community expands 10% every year. Housing can become scarce in these communities, driving up the cost of living even higher. This can lead to borrowing and high levels of debt as families try to pay basic needs like utilities.
How does the Torah World leadership interface with families that are struggling?
A highly sought after qualification for a Torah World leader is a willingness to permit people to support themselves in ways that are legally and Halachically shadowy. This lends itself to disastrous results when violations of civil laws and Halacha that the corrupt Rabbis tried to keep hidden are exposed, as happens from time to time.
In other words, the corrupt Rabbis who condone wrongdoing are apparently being practical. These Rabbis are themselves under tremendous pressure to make a New Torah that sanctions sometimes ignoring civil law and Torah Halacha. Without this New Torah, the Torah World would disappear as many now permitted resources to survive would become forbidden fruit.
Thus, the very existence of the Torah World requires occasionally not following the Torah. Now, there is a concept of "Hora'a Sha'a", the need for expedient rulings on rare occasions. But even these rulings that allow breaking the Torah are part and parcel of the Torah. What many Torah World leaders permit or wink at goes well beyond the necessity to violate the Torah in order to preserve it.
A non-financial example of grinding the Torah under the heel is how the Torah World places paramount value on families appearing to be perfect by Torah World family standards. In a bizarre twisting of Halacha, some communities unofficially label children as unmarriageable if these children come from families that don't meet these community-set standards. This can lead to something as relatively benign as hiding the behavior of the sibling of a child seeking to marry, to activity designed to avoid divorce, which may include wife swapping and other adulterous under-the-radar transgressions. All this subterfuge is intended to give an outsider the impression that a home is perfect.
It is historically unusual that so many Jewish men in a community sit and learn and do not work. What will be the outcome in the long run?
It should be noted that the Torah requires men to work and support their families. There are indications that there may be a limit to how much longer the women in the Torah World will put up with being raised at home and taught in schools the lie that men not working is the highest expression of a Torah life.
After several decades of this lifestyle, we may be nearing the breaking point. The Torah World in the U.S. was born of the social upheaval of the '60's (non-Jewish calendar). The first generation of the Torah World was supported in large part by parents who worked, and by generous government programs subsidizing families and schools. The second generation was supported by these same parents, now supporting grandchildren. The family support is now drying up, since Torah World parents don't have money for themselves, much less for their married children.
It is interesting to note that the current presidential campaign in the U.S. is fueled almost entirely by a debate over whether those who work and have a comfortable life are obligated, through taxes, to subsidize those with less. The outcome of this election will have a far reaching impact on the Torah World.
We will explore further the role of women in the Torah World. In particular, what would happen if the women refused to continue to support the men?
The overwhelming burden of keeping the Torah World going falls on the Torah World women. These women are trained from birth to be the economic engine for the Torah World, in opposition to the Torah. The collective burden is growing to the point of becoming impossible to sustain.
It is becoming increasingly likely that women who have "chapped" the deception may begin to refuse to marry non-working men.
Men and women may opt out of marrying altogether due to the high divorce rate -- in other words, singles will not marry out of a fear of getting divorced and being wiped out financially and even socially.
Thus, Torah World communities will be impacted as many women choose to live a Torah-true life where their husbands work, or when singles choose, against the Torah, not to marry at all and write themselves out of the Torah World. Commensurate with this, the number of births into the Torah World will begin to dwindle. This will put even more financial burden on those left in the community, since the non-working adults will be an even higher percentage of the community at that point.
Some fault lines of Torah World communities are already apparent as significant numbers of school age children choose on their own to stop going to school. Some end up alienated from their families. Going to a school is part of the price for a ticket to a Torah World marriage. These young people, by leaving school, are essentially checking out of the Torah World.
While this breakdown of community integrity is occurring slowly now, the danger of a meltdown is looming. It would take just one generation of nineteen year old girls to rebel, and the edifice of the Torah World could crumble, as younger sisters might join the rebels, and an avalanche of refusal to serve in the ranks of the Torah World would ensue. The artifice of men learning without earning would collapse under its own weight.
Sara Schenirer revolutionized education of Jewish women. Tradition teaches that the Chashmonean only took up arms when a relative refused to be taken to the Hegmon on her wedding night. What Yeshiva girl is now studying up on the myriad of Jewish women in whose merit the Jewish People have been saved, from Sara Imeunu to Yehudis to the woman who single-handedly circumcised her baby in a concentration camp? Is this Yeshiva girl energizing herself to battle and lead us back to the Torah-true life? It would only take a few "texts" to her friends for her to pull the plug on the Torah World.
What does the future hold for the Torah World?
The Torah World has to morph, as a whole, into a Torah-true World. Men will have to find employment to find a wife and to increase the likelihood the marriage will last. This will have to be part of an organized movement, not ad hoc as is now the case.
The next segment will outline some possible ways of re-building the Torah World based on the Old Fashioned Torah.
Strange claim that a Torah leader has to wink at crooked money dealings. Could some examples be brought perhaps? Officially, as far as I know, it only extends to cheating the government, especially in Israel.
ReplyDeleteThe wife-swapping claim is even stranger.
ReplyDeleteThe entire diatribe is strange but that point ranks somewhere out in the loony docks.
ReplyDeleteMr. Orlow, I wonder, are you married?
ReplyDeleteInformative article , I was fascinated by the facts ! Does someone know if my business could possibly find a fillable DOH-1430 example to fill out ?
ReplyDeleteNo.
ReplyDeleteAs is correctly noted here, the idea that the husband should be learning Torah all day while the wife is earning the Parnassa is bizarre and ahistorical. Our ancestors would be wondering what we are smoking if they knew that is how we operate now.
ReplyDeleteMr. Orlow: I bet you are an outsider, or a latecomer, to the Torah World.
ReplyDeleteAbout as accurate as a toddler explaining astro-physics.
ReplyDeleteI can't say that Mr. Orlow makes no valid points, bromidic and clichéd as even those may be, but the rest of his screed reads like some wacky fantasy:
ReplyDelete19-year-old girls texting their friends to rebel against the establishment, wife-swapping as an antidote to divorce, and some incoherent reference to Sara Schenirer, the Chashmonaim, and droit du seigneur.
Dude, as the 19-year olds text their friends, wtf?
Sinas am ha'aretz letalmid chochom. . . This is something straight out of Der Sturmer. Just wondering, and I am quoting you, if:
ReplyDelete"the husbands do not generally work, outside of teaching or running camps or being paid to study Torah."
and
"the wealthier families pay full tuition that essentially subsidizes the poorer families"
So where do all these "wealthy" families come from if the men do not generally work?
Maybe it has something to do with the wife-swappers. . .
Shame on you RDE for posting this steaming pile of horse excrement.
There are better, and honest, ways of giving an accounting of the shortcomings of the Torah communities.
Wrong. And right. My Rabbi that I followed from when I was a kid learned in Europe. His son-in-law, and son-in-law's brother, had a Yeshiva here where Rabbi Dovid Eidensohn studied. Another Rabbi I learned under as a kid also learned in Europe. The Rabbi of the Shul where I daven now learned in Telz. Many of my teachers learned in the great Yeshivas in Europe, and here in the U.S. under great Rabbis who learned in Europe.
ReplyDeleteThe Torah I learned was of working and learning. This was the stated Derech of Telz, I'm told.
The idea that sitting and learning full time for all men was desirable was never mentioned when I was a kid.
Later on, in my late teens, as friends and neighbors went to Yeshiva, this concept came to my attention. By then, I was set in my way of working and learning. But I always felt uncomfortable around full time learners when the subject came up of learning full time, like I was living some kind of second class life. And some of the full time learners gave me the impression that they considered my secondary role to be among those who support the Torah.
Now, it is a lofty goal with great reward for those who are the "sockets of the pillars in the Mishkan", who are "the poles of the ark", who are "Zevulun" (who is even mentioned before Yissachar). Still....
Then I met Rabbi Dovid Eidensohn. He straightened out my thinking. Thus, this post.
When you find an entire segment of people spread out over the world that have no issues at all, please let me know. It's obvious from your descriptions that you're an outsider with an axe to grind with the yeshiva world. Where in the world do you get that non yeshiva family are supporting Kollel families. Last I checked the money comes from the countless yeshivish gvirim that exist. For someone to say that a true Torah world involves less learning as a whole, sounds like an "enlightened Jew" talking.
ReplyDeleteA real anav would not say such, especially if me'eid al atsmo of being the greatest anav. chazor bach, veachshav.
ReplyDeleteThese rabbis come up for rules that break the torah, yet they're masters of the mesoret?
ReplyDelete" A general rule is that the men of the Torah World wear black suits and black hats," So those who wear non black head covering, and non black clothing, and observer Torah are not part of the Torah world?
ReplyDelete"Many husbands in Torah World families do work, and in some Torah World communities it may be most men." I hope this answers your question.
ReplyDeleteSo those who wear non black head covering, and non black clothing, and observer Torah are not part of the Torah world?
ReplyDeleteIt depends whom you ask. If you ask your average person who has fortunately received an education at a real yeshiva, then to him the black suit "rule" is unheard of and nonexistent. To certain bloggers seeking to keep MO alive, they'll make up anything even though they know it is false. (Please note: I d not think the author of this post made up anything. I do think that he is just repeating what the Harry Myrales' of the world spew.)
Just one example: Virtually no 9 year old Cheder or Beis Yaakov type student considers themselves Chareidi, Yeshivish, Torahwoldish or any other denomination. They consider themselves as Jews whose job is to try to do precisely what Hashem has commanded us to do. Contrast that with a child in a Solomon Schechter school, and recently, in a MO school. They are taught outright that they are either "conservative Jews" or "Modern Orthodox" Jews, respectively.
About ten years ago, YU spent six million dollars on a think tank to figure out how to "preserve" the MO base, and not have them shift to the "right." Some of these slander blogs were part of the "solutions" that this think tank came up with. In order to fight the shift to stronger and more sincere Torah observance, They had to create an identifiable enemy. An analysis of this well-intended article reveals a lot of the strategies that a cool six million produced.
I don't know about the demographics, and not interested in another debate on who is winning the numbers game. The point is there are Yeshivot in Israel, where they don't necessarily dress in European hareidi garb, but are bringing out talmidei chachamim. It is not even clear if these are MO - they are Dati or Hardal. They are certainly in the Torah world.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more.
ReplyDeleteThe point is there are Yeshivot in Israel
ReplyDeleteI do not necessarily disagree with you. Interesting point: How do the Rabbis in those institutions dress? Why? What is the real point you are making?
Sefaradim/Mizrahim never worn black before getting influenced by European Jews.
ReplyDeleteEven European Jews couldn't afford black clothes until the end of the 18th century...
Actually, until the end of 18th century, black garments were almost exclusively used by German Protestants as a sing of purity and power.
In 'fashion History', black clothes is a huge goyish influence... from Spainiard royalty, to Catholic church, to European royalty, to high Estate professions, to Protestants and finally... to Jews.
Drivel
ReplyDelete"the husbands do not generally work, outside of teaching or running camps or being paid to study Torah."
ReplyDelete"Many husbands in Torah World families do work, and in some Torah World communities it may be most men."
A contradiction from one paragraph to the next.
Sefaradim/Mizrahim
ReplyDeleteWhat, exactly, are "Mizrahim?"
Sefaradim/Mizrahim never worn black before getting influenced by European Jews.
You probably meant to say generally, not never. Right?
Even European Jews couldn't afford black clothes until the end of the 18th century...
You do have an authentic source, right? Please provide it.
Reguardless, what is the point you are making? Additionally, please answer the question I asked Eddie: How do the Rabbis in those institutions dress? Why?
Thank you.
כבר שמעתי מאחורי הפרגוד שובו בנים שובבים חוץ מ...
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your honesty.
ReplyDelete1) You are not alone. There are quite a large number of individuals from your generation that feel they "missed the boat", i. e. that did not realize where the wind was blowing until it was too late.
These feelings of disappointment, lost opportunity, and failure sometimes develop into jealousy, even loathing, which can eventually cause feelings of wishing, anticipating, even imagining, the downfall of the successful ones who "caught the boat in time".
Do you think it's time to change the way you deal with these feelings?
There were people far greater than us who found themselves "outside the camp" because they didn't see the Great Shift to the Right in time. Some of them ultimately faced the new reality and went along with it. Others did not, and the results are evident in their offspring.
2) As far as the issues themselves:
i don't think anyone (at least in the USA) in the Torah World believes the ideal world to be one in which every male is entitled to a lifetime learning scholarship sponsored by a female. In fact, in the Torah World in the USA kollel is a small portion of married life, generally not longer than 10-15 years. The overwhelming majority eventually find some livelihood.
The system in general is one that was custom-designed to the meet the spiritual needs of this generation. It is far from ideal, but neither is the spiritual reality of the generation. These types of generational policy-making is usually taken care of by the spiritual leaders of the generation, whose understanding of the spiritual needs of the times the Torah World takes for granted.
You made the contradiction by cutting off the first half of the sentence. The full sentence reads: "In some Torah World communities, the husbands do not generally work, outside of teaching or running camps or being paid to study Torah." If you're interested you can learn the introduction to Moreh Nevuchim where the Rambam discusses resolving contradictions.
ReplyDeleteSefaradim are Jews from the Spanish & Portuguese communities. Iberian Peninsul = Sefarad. They have their own nusach (which is very similar to Ashkenazi nusach), spoke Djudezmo (Ladino) and were not keen to mysticism. There are sort of 20 S&P comminities nowadays, the main ones in London, Amsterdan and NY . There was a solid S&P community in Rhodes (an island close to Greece) but it was almost completely anihilated during the Shoah. By the pictures taken of the Rhodes communities, we can see how they lived and dressed.
ReplyDeleteMizrahim are Jews from "Arab lands", such as Siria, Egypt, Yemen who have cultural aspects similiar to their "Arab" neighbors, which differ immensely from Sefardic (S&P) culture.
Regarding the black color, wow... you can find this information in any fashion history book, since fashion is just the reflexion of the inner values of a society... the most famous book about this subject is 'Black: The History of a Color'.
The making of black dye was complicated since all dyes had to be made of natural sources. Not more complicated than red dyes, but still... way more complicated than browns and expensive to be made in large quantities. Most times people tried to make black, they would end up with dark blue. It was a color used by the rich, the powerful and later in History, puritan Protestants... until getting to the masses once the rise of synthetic coloring took over in the end of 19th century... and that's because the poor commoner finally could afford for a black garment.
An old black coat looks better than a old brown one... so... it was just a matter of time for 'black' to take over Europe.
Sefaradim Jews (S&P) had no interest in black garments since they were now living far from Europe. Same is valid of the Mizrahim.
As a matter of convenience, we call anyone who is not Ashkenazi, by the name of 'Sefaradi'... but it's a mistake.
No need. I honestly didn't read it through carefully. Modeh al ha'emes. Thank you for correcting me.
ReplyDeleteI nevertheless stand by the rest of my response. The author is admittedly unfamiliar with the Torah communities he speaks of but for a brief education from Rav Dovid E. He therefore promulgates a number of stereotypes that interfere with what might otherwise have been a worthwhile endeavor.
Don't believe you're other.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, this "old fashioned Torah" post reminds me of the sharp writing of the Sefardic (S&P) rabbi Nathan Lopes Cardozo.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cardozoacademy.info/about-us/manifesto/
If Joe learned some things from me, especially what he is saying in these articles, I want to explain where I got them. I learned intensely from Reb Aharon Kotler, Reb Moshe Feinstein and other gedolim. When Reb Aharon died a whole new world opened up. It was not the Yeshivas I had known before. This was because of changes in the general secular world that lead to huge influxes of cash into Yeshivas and the refusal of many Orthodox people to go to colleges that were corrupted with hippies in the fight against the Viet Name War and its draft.
ReplyDeleteWhen I came to Lakewood I asked where the bathroom is and I was told, "Go upstairs, at the end of the hall, there is no toilet that works here." Two people came each zman and two people left (not exact but basically true) until the final year of Reb Aharon's life, when he saw great success when five geniuses arrived in the Yeshiva and two new Yeshivas in America under his own students began. These new Yeshivas were designed to send graduating students to Lakewood. At that point, Lakewood not just grew, but it exploded. And the Torah world in general went into a new mode.
I wrote a book about this The Torah that Was, the Torah that Will Be: Stories of Rosh Yeshivas. It is available on Amazon. In the book, I pointed out various things that disturbed me in the new Yeshiva world. But what really stunned me was when I went to the Magid of Jerusalem Rav Schwadron when he visited Monsey, and asked him to deal with a video store that opened in the center of Monsey. In those days, there was nothing in Monsey that was not bikedusho. He just looked away as if I didn't exist, and I pressed him, until finally I said loudly, and there were a lot of people there who heard this, "Rebbe! Hashchoso!" That was what he was waiting for. Suddenly he turned towards me, his eyes flashing, his finger pointing in my face, and said, slowly and professionally, "A Yeshiva is Hashchoso."
I felt I was falling down, down, down. He laughed and said something in Yiddish. I just stood there, in total shock. He then got serious and explained what he meant. But I was so shocked that I don't know how much of his remarks I recall, at least, I won't repeat them, although I think I got something from it. But then I went to a Gadol HaDor a major Rosh Yeshiva, and when he heard this, he got very enthusiastic. I was shocked again, and went and asked somebody who knew him well. That person said, "He always talks that way." Oh well, you live and you learn. At any rate, I have written many times about major rabbonim and Rosh Yeshivas who make mamzerim. It seems that Rav Schwadron knew things that I at the time had to learn the hard way.