Furthermore I have been informed that my publicizing Beth's plight irritates members of the Vienna community - including its rabbis. I have been told that there is muttering about "Why air this on the Internet?" I in fact share your concerns but I see no alternative at present. I welcome any suggestion that would take care of these matters of common decency - without publicity. So far private requests have accomplished nothing!
===================================
update - The Law of Austria regardiing child custody European Commission
http://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/10/Seite.100022.html
In the case of sole custody, the non-custodial parent has the following minimal rights.
The right to information, statements and representation
The custodial parent is obliged to inform the non-custodial parent about important matters and changes in the life of a child of both parties (eg change of school, change of address, illnesses which are not just minor, success at school).
The non-custodial parent has the right to make a statement about these topics. The custodial parent also has these rights, ie the parents are obliged to inform each other about these things. The non-custodial parent also has to care for and rear the child and represent him/her in everyday matters, as long as circumstances permit, e.g when the custodial parent is not present and the child is lawfully spending time with the non-custodial parent.
===================================
update - The Law of Austria regardiing child custody European Commission
http://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/10/Seite.100022.html
In the case of sole custody, the non-custodial parent has the following minimal rights.
The right to information, statements and representation
The custodial parent is obliged to inform the non-custodial parent about important matters and changes in the life of a child of both parties (eg change of school, change of address, illnesses which are not just minor, success at school).
The non-custodial parent has the right to make a statement about these topics. The custodial parent also has these rights, ie the parents are obliged to inform each other about these things. The non-custodial parent also has to care for and rear the child and represent him/her in everyday matters, as long as circumstances permit, e.g when the custodial parent is not present and the child is lawfully spending time with the non-custodial parent.
====================================
I address this simple request to Chabad International; to every Chabad Shalich, Rabbi, Rebbetzen and Chabadnik, in every country and in every continent of the world:
You are the so-called emissaries of the Rebbe. You have chosen a very noble role; to publicly take upon yourselves the onus of 'caring for' and 'reaching out' to Jewish souls all over the world. Your ethos: when you hear a cry of distress, you rush to help. When you see suffering, you do everything in your human power to relieve the pain.
Samuel and Benjamin Schlesinger will be 5 years old this Shabbos. I've been told the normal procedure on a child's birthday is as follows:
The Chabad kindergarten in Vienna, Rav Biderman's school, celebrate with a party in the class and crown the child a birthday 'king or queen.' The child's parents are invited to be there to join in.
Since my twins' birthday is on Shabbos, I assume this party will take place on Friday.
My little princes will have their turns as the birthday 'kings.' Their class will sing 'yom huledet sameach' and their friends will congratulate them and give them gifts. There is just one thing missing from this wonderful occasion: the life source who carried them and brought them into this world: their mother.
Every other child takes it for granted that their 'mama' is invited by the kindergarten to their birthday party, that their 'mama' brings them in the morning and picks them up in the afternoon. Sammy and Benji are not that fortunate.
Michael Schlesinger cancelled my visit this Tuesday without giving any reason and the visiting centre cancelled my visit this Sunday.
I therefore have ONE request from you:
TO ALLOW SAMMY AND BENJI TO HAVE THEIR MOTHER AT THEIR BIRTHDAY PARTY IN THE CHABAD KINDERGARTEN IN VIENNA
Such a simple request yet one which would mean all the joy and happiness in the world to me and my boys. Do not turn me away. There is no court order prohibiting me from attending the kindergarten. No law will be broken if I am present and yet how many Chabad principles will be broken if I'm denied this simple wish?
It is not my intention to inconvenience anyone. I only want to be there for my babies - the children to whom I GAVE BIRTH - on their BIRTHday.
Please have compassion. See our tears and hear our cries. Let the twins' 5th birthday be a happy memory we can look back on and cherish.
Such a lofty mission as you embraced was never meant to be easy. You can choose to take the easy route and ignore me, letting us suffer further, or you can take on the challenge like warriors and honour the name of the Rebbe throughout klall Yisroel.
I charge you, every single Chabadnik around the world, to do EVERYTHING in your power to make Rav Biderman's Chabad school in Vienna do the right thing by Samuel and Benjamin and let my two little boys enjoy their birthday party in the presence of their mother.
Thank you.
Beth
Rabbi Biderman are you a father, a grandfather? Are you humane?
ReplyDeletePlease show us that you are. Please show compassion, for a mother, who
could be your daughter, for two little
boys, who could be your grandsons!
You have these two little boys in your kindergarten. If you really csre about them please comply with their
mother's plea and allow her to be
present on Friday when her little
angels are crowned on their 5th birthdays!
You can't deny this request!
Yes Beth, your plea is a very simple request to every chabadnik everywhere.
ReplyDeleteIf you are ignored, I really don't know what chabad is all about.
I have already heard in one European city, the community have become fed up with their brand of Judaism
If anyone in Vienna cannot understand why this is published on the blog, or why it will continue to be published on the blog, let them call me at 845-578-1917.
ReplyDeleteDovid Eidensohn
The Chabad rabbis hands are tied. There is a legally binding court order preventing them from allowing her to see the kids without the express written permission of the father, as the custodial parent. There is nothing they can do to violate the court decree.
ReplyDeleteTheir hands may or may not be tied, but their mouths have not being gagged
Deletewhat do you propose allankatz? that they violate a court order?
DeleteI have spoken to the kindergarten director who assured me she would love to be in touch with beth but is forbidden by the courts.
I dont understand what beth hopes to accomplish with this letter
Vie, you are quite simply wrong!! If there was ANY truth whatsoever in what you're saying, the kindergarten/biderman would write an email to daas Torah to this effect. The fact they have not responded at all, shows they are being deliberately repugnant by preventing Beth seeing her children on their 5th birthdays.
DeleteI propose that the kindergarten do something to change the situation , advocate for the mother to have better access.
DeleteThere are also ways to get info out . all of a sudden the law is ' kadosh' . If the community would not support this abusive father , it might impact on the social services and legal system . You ask what is the use of this letter . For people with hearts of stone , nothing but for people who feel the pain of the children and of Beth our positive thoughts and prayers go out to them and hope that Chabad and the Jewish community in Vienna will stop hiding behind Nazi Justice
@Steven would you please get Chabad to send me an email stating that they would love to be reasonable and humane in this situation but it is against the law to disobey the legal guardian's demands to block his ex-wife from knowing about her children and participating in their lives.
Delete. Furthermore that while they strongly disagree with Dr. Schlesinger they have tried to persuade him to be reasonable but he refuses - even if they apply social sanctions against him.
I will be glad to publish such a letter and establish once and for all that Vienna is under the thumb of this irresistibly powerful Dr. Schlesinger.
On the other hand if they refuse to make such a public announcement then it is obvious that what you are saying is utter nonsense and they are fully complicit in this disgusting abuse of children and their mother.
This blog has featured much discussion of Schlesinger, Dodelson, Epstein, three parents who, to varying degrees, have long tried to deny their child[ren] the opportunity to have a meaningful relationship with the other parent. It is true that each of these cases has its own facts that differentiate it from the others - and the Schlesinger children have been, by far, the most severely restricted in their ability to interact with the other parent.
ReplyDeleteHatzad hashave shebahen, a common element to these cases, tragically, is how leading rabbonim in Vienna, Lakewood and Philadelphia have intervened on behalf the powerful insider in each of those communities and actually incited that insider to act even more unreasonably, thus making it much harder for the children to have meaningful relationships with the other parent.
Instead of seeing their roles as trying to bring peace, they have fanned the flames of conflagration. And to make matters even worse, even though these rabbonim approach these matters as toanim and PR advocates for one side, they try to dress up their one-sided advocacy as decisions by impartial and objective observers. Much credit is due to Rabbi Eidensohn for not being afraid of the powers that be within the Orthodox community.
Rabbi Biderman can't use the excuse that he has to respect the father! As a man of such stature, he should be seen to be doing everything in his
ReplyDeletepower to convince the father that the
children need their mother!
He clearly does not have the children's interests at heart. He probably doesn't
make it his business to see them and
is hiding behind his own brick wall hoping that this situation will go away!
As the boys are growing older? their problems are becoming more and more apparent, How long is Rabbi
Biderman going to ignore the mother's
plea for his help and intervention?
It is time now for him to realise that unless he is seen as trying to help improve this situation by convincing
the father tbat Sammy and Benji need
their mother, he will be seen to be putting an evil curse on the children
and their mother and it will be
appropriate now for his Chabad
colleagues and other Rabbis to make
him an outcast and show him the same disrepect he is showing to these children, their mothet and her family.
RABBI BIDEFMAN HAS NO EXCUSE
FOR DESTROYING LIVES!
Come on Rabbi Biderman, if you want respect you need to show it! Think of
those two little boys, who desperately
need their mother. You are in a prime
position to make this happen. You are
being watched amd you need to be seen to be helping now. No excuses!
Let's see you, at leaet try! If you don't the question is what are all Chabad's mission statements all about?
'There is a legally binding order' No,Steven Sutton, there is NO SUCH ORDER. The father has chosen to propagate this lie and has told the kindergarten not to allow me entry and not divulge any information about my boys. Perhaps he would like to give his reasons for doing so and perhaps the school would like to say why they are allowing themselves to be bullied at the expense of my children's well-being
ReplyDeleteFor Biderman to be continuously siding with the abusive father, he is of the same breed.
ReplyDeleteIf the father is the legal guardian, the school cannot- by law- share information with someone else, much less someone the legal guardian does not agree to.
ReplyDeletethat is the law!
Vie, you are quite simply wrong!! If there was ANY truth whatsoever in what you're saying, the kindergarten/biderman would write an email to daas Torah to this effect. The fact they have not responded at all, shows they are being deliberately repugnant by preventing Beth seeing her children on their 5th birthdays.
DeleteI don't know what is the law in Austria regarding disclosing information about their education,well being, or medical record to non-custodial parent but certainly in England by law required to disclose such information. Not that they comply with or the court enforcing it.
DeleteBob
I'm sorry but that is not the case with Chabad. When have you ever heard or seen Chabad addressing family feuds or even responding to negative press(aside from trying to get Rubashkin out of jail)?
Deletevie. as Beth points out above, there is no court order. As for what she hopes to achieve with this letter and all her endeavors is to be close to her children and to play a significant role in their lives. And this is totally justified, especially when we hear that the children are in need themselves. Compassion is supposed to be a cornerstone of Judaism and it seems that Beth has not received much of that from the frum side, including from the principal of her boys' kindergarten. What a shame!
ReplyDeleteThe confusion lies in terms being confused. We have been told that the court granted Michael Schlessinger full custody(or at least that is how I understood it, maybe I am mistaken). If he has full custody then that normally means that there is in fact a court order.
DeleteIf the court has granted him sole custody of the children than the father can (normally)exclude any non-custodial relative(including the non-custodial parent) he desires.
If he doesn't have full custody, than I am once again very confused as to what is going on here...
There is a commentator on a previous blogpost calling himself @halocho. He claims he has friend who knows eliyahu hanovi personally. If @halocho was here now he would ask eliyohu what the Austrian law is. I think he would agree that biderman is being malicious for the sake of being malicious.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the Ethos of Chabad?
ReplyDeleteFor anyone to respect them Rabbi Biderman needs to make a public statement as to why he is siding with
the father!
Most importantly, why he is taking sides against a perfectly fit loving and
capable mother to the detriment of two small children. Is this what Chabad is about?
Shame on Chabad for not taking Rabbi Biderman to task. If he feels he is justified for his actions let's here it
from the man himself.
Let's clarify the LAW:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/10/Seite.100022.html
In the case of sole custody, the non-custodial parent has the following minimal rights.
The right to information, statements and representation
The custodial parent is obliged to inform the non-custodial parent about important matters and changes in the life of a child of both parties (eg change of school, change of address, illnesses which are not just minor, success at school).
The non-custodial parent has the right to make a statement about these topics. The custodial parent also has these rights, ie the parents are obliged to inform each other about these things. The non-custodial parent also has to care for and rear the child and represent him/her in everyday matters, as long as circumstances permit, e.g when the custodial parent is not present and the child is lawfully spending time with the non-custodial parent.
It is quite clear the father is breaking all of these laws by freezing the mother out of the boys' lives. This may have worked 30 years ago when his mother did that against his father but times have changed. He cannot hope to get away with the same today.
Sometimes morality, and what we know to be right (allowing a mother to be present at her children's birthday - and allowing them the joy of having their mother present) supersedes any court ruling which may be in existence. In the past, people have fought for what they know to be right - both on behalf of themselves, and on behalf of others. Laws of the land are man-made and can be, as in this case, fallible. There is no true 'religion' in the heart of any person who would deny Beth Alexander the right to be present at her children's birthday. She brought them into the world, she loves them more than anyone (more than their father who has denied his sons one of their most basic and profound rights in the world - their mother's affection and attention) - she has a right to be present on their fifth birthday. Rav Biderman will be a lesser Rabbi (indeed, a lesser human being) if he does not grant Beth this most innocent (yet most important) of wishes.
ReplyDelete@Steven would you please get Chabad to send me an email stating that
ReplyDeletethey would love to be reasonable and humane in this situation but it is
against the law to disobey the legal guardian's demands to block his
ex-wife from knowing about her children and participating in their
lives.
. Furthermore that while they strongly disagree with Dr.
Schlesinger they have tried to persuade him to be reasonable but he
refuses - even if they apply social sanctions against him.
I will
be glad to publish such a letter and establish once and for all that
Vienna is under the thumb of this irresistibly powerful Dr. Schlesinger.
On
the other hand if they refuse to make such a public announcement then
it is obvious that what you are saying is utter nonsense and they are
fully complicit in this disgusting abuse of children and their mother.
First Beth is insulting the Chabad community nowshe she is begging thEM for help. What a weak character. Why is she Not planing a birthday party? She has so many friends:-) and Concita Wurst will sing birthday songs
ReplyDeleteOff topic but important.
ReplyDeleteCan you get rid of discus, and go back to blogger?
There are various pblms with discuss : it ttakes forever to load, (esp on android), its very jumpy, requires reloading several times, doesn't track responses to (responses to) previous comments, loses place in the listings very often, doesnt prevent falsely named postings (accusations of that here), and other problems.
Don't know how it handles back end (your end) but plz reconsider.
on my computer it loads as fast as Blogger. It has a number of extra features. However if there is a general problem with it I will go back. will consider your request
ReplyDeleteAnybody else having a problem?
It seems from a number of commentators that the school does have a choice.
ReplyDeleteI believe "prof" is correct. The school has no choice under the court orders that are legally in effect. Only the father, who is the custodial parent, can authorize anything regarding the children's schooling or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI think Disquis is far far better than the default Blogger comment system.
ReplyDeleteYou might even consider turning off moderation for users who post under a registered name. They are more accountable as you can block them if they cause a problem without needing to approve/moderate new comments.
Does it help you prevent people from posting under multiple usernames coming from one computer.
Beth,
ReplyDeleteIs the school legally allowed to disregard the father's instructions to them regarding the children?
On what basis do you believe? There are a number of different issues 1) can he prevent Beth from going to a school birthday party? 2) can he arbitrarily cancel visits 3) can he have surgery done without informing Beth? 4) Can he refuse to let Beth have information about their health, psychologica state, therapy etc 5
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that some commentators claim that Beth has a right to know. Any lawyers out there who know Austrian law?
Yup. It's a nightmare on an iPad. I'm motivated now to get a a PC.
ReplyDeletewell your a nasty piece of work rnt u?? clearly u dont have a heart. beth is pleading with the people who yes have been totally useless in the past and given her every right to insult them, yet have the ability to help her and her boys. shes hoping as we all are that they can rise above whoever is forcing them to ignore her and do the right thing. standbyers of vienna, you make me sick. u will get your punishment lets hope for you in this world, cos in the next world it will be alot harsher.
ReplyDeleteRav Eidenson,
ReplyDeleteI'm not a lawyer nor am I an expert in Austrian law, however I do have pretty good google-fu. According to this and several other webites dealing with Austrian custody law:
http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/parental_resp/parental_resp_aus_en.htm
Beth does have certain rights of communication:
8. If the court decides that one parent shall have single custody of a child, does this mean that he or she can decide on all matters relating to the child without first consulting the other parent?
Natural parents who do not have custody have certain rights of communication. This relates, for example, to access rights (see response to 7). A parent who does not have custody is entitled to beinformed of important matters by the other parent so that they can watch their child growing up. Such important matters include illnesses, taking part in the child’s educational successes, the successful completion of occupational training, as well as language holidays abroad and other lengthy absences from home. A change of home – either within the country or abroad – is also possiblewithout the consent of a parent who does not have custody, provided he or she is notified. Such notification must be provided in time for the parent who does not have custody to comment on the plan. The courts must take note of such comments if the wishes they express better reflect the interests of the child. If the parent with custody persistently fails to fulfil their duty to tolerate and support access or their duty to provide information, the court may, on application (or if the child’s welfare is threatened) , make suitable provisions. Conversely, the court may also restrict access and the right to information or remove them altogether if the child’s welfare might be threatened by the exercising of those rights.
I agree with Moe. I think Disqus is far better than default blogger, and may eventually allow you to ease some moderation.
ReplyDeleteAlso the added benefit of cutting down on trolls and sockpuppets.
All the points you bring up are side issues. People forget that the school has simply been thrust in the middle of this. They are being told something by the father, the father's lawyers and the courts. While we may disagree with what the courts have done, the school really had no day in the matter. They are not the ones to whom the anger should be directed.
ReplyDeletejust to quote a few people who upon hearing about the story said the words "it makes me ashamed to be jewish". to all the religious bystanders, you are doing a chillul hashem and indeed are making people feel ashamed to be jewish. we look to you for inspiration, you are supposed to be our jewish leaders who can teach us how to live a fulfilling torah life as good jewish people. yet you stand by this abomination and do nothing to try to stop it. you give people a bad impression of judaism and make them "ashamed to be jewish". but even worse so, your standing by while 2 little boys' lives are ruined. you are evil.
ReplyDeletethere are 3 issues. 1) the school was apparently misled as to what rights the father had 2) the school is afraid to stand up for an obvious injustice. One doesn't need to be a great talmid chachom to understand this situation is a moral outrage. They are moral cowards 3) there was no justification for Rabbi Biderman to forward Beth's email to Michael and to the judge.
ReplyDelete1) the "besuchsbegleitung", i.e. the lady responsible for passing the children to and from their mother is the person responsible for ensuring that the visits take place as scheduled. If visits are cancelled without excuse, the court is obliged to intervene in order to ensure that visits take place (but I don't know how this is quantified - and what counts or does not count as an excuse). So please bombard the "Besuchsrechtsbegleitung" with emails, that she is not doing her job properly and not enforcing the mother's "kontaktrecht".
ReplyDelete2) The informationsrecht just says that the non-custodial partner should be informed about major illnesses (I suppose tooth extraction is not a major illness or surgery), school successes (like graduation, etc), change of school, change of address. The non-custodial parent can express their opinion, but does not have to be heard (i.e. the custodial parent takes all of those decisions alone).
3) The "Informationsrecht" does not allow the non-custodial parent to be present at school functions without the permission of the custodial parent.
4) School/kindergarten has to follow the instructions of the custodial parent only. More specifically, they are not allowed to let the non-custodial parent pick the children up from school/kindergarten without explicit written permission of the custodial parent. So definitely, if Michael does not want Beth to attend the birthday party, there is no way chabad kindergarten could allow it. I am sure Beth is aware of this, since she herself reported that similar scenes already took place in kindergarten, and she was told that it was not possible to disregard the father's instructions.
1) You are mislead. They are right.
ReplyDelete2) they are in a no-win situation, between bullets in a battle.
3) if Rabbi biderman wanted to comply with Beth's request, the only possibility was obtaining the father's permission. So he had to inform the father (and judge) about the request.
You are right. I agree 100%
ReplyDeleteyou are wrong - nomen est omen...
ReplyDeleteSince the father is the custodial parent, the school has to follow his instructions and his instructions alone. There is no way the non-custodial parent can just show up in school outside visiting hours.
ReplyDeleteOf course, this rule applies only if the custodial parent objects. If they agree, everything is nice and dandy.
so you are barking up the wrong tree. It is all about Michael Schlesinger. Chabad are just doing their job. It has nothing to do with money or influence. Every custodial parent has those rights, and I know quite a few cases, in 3 diffrent countries, where the custodial parent (mostly mothers) does not allow the kindergarten to facilitatd contact with the child.
this is a completely normal procedure, not only in Austria but internationally, and any kindergarten teacher will confirm that those rules have to be followed, even if it breaks their heart.
would you be so flipent if it was you having your teeth ripped out.. Bet you would want come comforting.
ReplyDeleteWhat is your source?
ReplyDeleteShe only wishes she could plan a party for them. With visits being cancelled and such limited time with them how is this possible?? You are one vile person.
ReplyDeletePlus I will guarantee you one thing Sammy and Benji would love to be with her on their birthday and have people around them that love them so much to celebrate. Instead they will be with the father who deprives them of their mothers love..
How nice is that??? Come on answer that one
the citation from the European Commission. Simply says she has the right to know what is going on with her kids.
ReplyDeleteThe right to information, statements and representation
The custodial parent is obliged to inform the non-custodial
parent about important matters and changes in the life of a child of both parties (eg change of school, change of address, illnesses which are not just minor, success at school).
You are wrong. The school is not allowed to give information to the non-custodial parent. They deal with the custodial parent, and the custodial parent is obliged to inform the non-custodial parent.
ReplyDeleteIf the custodial parent fails to do so, the non-custodial parent can file for a court order, and only with a court order is the school allowed (and obliged) to give information to the non-custodial parent.
(see Rundschreiben 17/2005 BMBWK p. 2 "informations- und äusserungsrecht).
If you are looking at old comments, they are a bit of a mess. It has to do with blogger and import...
ReplyDeleteHowever, new comments are showing up the same on ipad and android as on PC. Checked it myself.
No it says speciically that the non-custodial parent must be informed in time to comment on the plan and to seek court intervention if their concerns are not heard by the other parent. To quote:
ReplyDeleteSuch notification must be provided in time for the parent who does not have custody to comment on the plan. The courts must take note of such comments if the wishes they express better reflect the interests of the child.
T
you might want to contact the association vaterverbot.at. It is an association of non-custodial parents (mostly fathers) who experience problems in enforcing their visitation rights.
ReplyDeleteSo for one, you could vent with them, but more importantly, they could help inform you about the legal situation and the tools you can use to obtain proper visitation.
You are right. In case of major illness, or change of school the parent should be informed beforehand (if possible) and is allowed to comment - comments can be disregarded. But I do not suppose that tooth extractions count as major illness.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, both parents have the duty to cooperate, not to denigrate each other (in front of the child).
As far as visitation goes, the default rule is that the parents should agree, while respecting the wishes of the child. Only if this fails does the court come in.
If the custodial parent fails to ccoperate on visitation, the judge can refer couple can be refered to a Familiengerichtshilfe by the judge, who will look to it that the situation is de-escalated and that visiation takes place. The Familiengerichtshilfe responsable for Beth's district can be found here. (However, I suppose that the judge has to refer her). The institution of Familiengerichtshilfe is fairly new, as from 1.1.2014.
http://www.justiz.gv.at/web2013/file/2c94848644976a110144abebe80804b7.de.0/famghkontaktdaten.pdf
Why is the father being so hostile?Why should Beth need to go to Court for her basic human rights?
ReplyDeleteThe father sounds like he is very sick!
Maybe instead of being a doctor he needs to be a patient in a psychiatric hospital.
His behaviour sounds so odd. In his sick way he is punishing his sons. He does not deserve them as he must be making their lived a complete misery.
The Austrian Authorities need to be made aware that the boys are not thriving in their father's cars and the Court made a wrong decision which is so evident! Time for some proper assessments!
Why is the father so adamant about Beth knowing anything at all about the children. Hr is showing symptoms of a comtrol freak!
ReplyDeleteYou are right. Michael should behave differently and be more cooperative. So go and tell him and try to bring about a behavior change.
ReplyDeleteBeth, on her side, described a few actions that might have contributed to create the current situation. So if you want to help Beth, you should also try and explain her how to behave and how not to behave in the light of the present legal situation. You don't help her if you tell her to go to the kindergarten and make a scene. On the contrary, this will further poison the situation, she will be considered hysterical, the children might see how she is kept from them, etc, etc.
I am a bit surprised that as a phd in psychology and former clinical psychologist you fail to grasp the concept of custodial parent.
ReplyDeleteActually I fail to grasp how this situation has been permitted to develop in a manner which is harmful to all involved - both by the secular authorities and by the Jewish community - and which ignores both the letter and spirit of the law. Perhaps with your clearer grasp of the Austrian situation and your knowledge of the law - you can explain the matter starting from the beginning.
ReplyDelete1) Why did Beth lose full custody despite having an abusive husband who tried to have her fraudulently committed to a mental hospital and therefore was removed from the house by the police and was allowed only supervised visits?
2) Why the court gave custody to a busy doctor who is parenting through two fillipinos - instead of their mother who everyone agrees was doing a good job?
3) Why the court doesn't realize that the twins are doing extremely poorly in the present situation to the degree that they might have to be institutionalized because they can't speak at the age of 5?
3) Rabbi Biderman's forwarding of the information clearly had nothing to do with complying with Beth's request. The judge was not the judge of the custody case but is a friend of Schlesinger. It clearly was a violation of confidentiality that Rabbi Biderman knew was not in Beth's interests but would serve Michael's legal action against Beth. In other words he was taking Michael's side as he did when he wrote a letter to the court claiming that the twins were doing well. See the following
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2014/04/schlesinger-twins-court-document-rabbi.html
I don't know the details of the situation, and neither do you. But you are not doing a good job at helping Beth. You act like the blind guiding the blind into the abyss.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Andrea Julie from Illinois in USA. Am here to testify of a great and powerful spell caster named Priest Kuvuki via his email: ( Kuvukispelltemple@priest.com ). I was so confused and devastated when my boy friend left me for another girl. I needed him back desperately because i loved him so much. So i contacted this great spell caster for a help. He helped me cast a return love spell on him and just within 12 to 16 hours my boy friend came back to me crying and begging for my forgiveness. I want to recommend this great spell caster to anyone that truly needs an urgent solution to a love break up. Simply contact the great Priest Kuvuki via his email address ( Kuvukispelltemple@priest.com )
ReplyDeleteWhy haven't we heard any other Vienna rabbis?
ReplyDeleteIs this another case that seems as a scandal only from afar?
I sincerely trust you - ib - were not one of the people celebrating the boys' birthday with them today but I have a sneaking feeling that you might - once again - be a member of the Schlesinger family, as no one else on this blog ever dares to communicate in this manner.
ReplyDeleteAm sure I speak for everyone else except you, whether supporters of Beth's or not, who wish Sammy and Benji A SUPER 5th BIRTHDAY and hope that their 6th year will bring them much joy with the English side of their family, who are being denied the opportunity to be with them for this very important day in the liv
for what its worth: I believe the kindergarten celebrated the children's birthday earlier in the week (that sometimes happens as a result of scheduling conflicts) and the father is planning a birthday party in a kosher eatery in Vienna for the boys and their friends on Sunday. Also, I saw the boys in shul on shabbos, they looked delightful, played with the children in shul, and looked happy.
ReplyDeleteI am not encouraging Beth to make a scene. She stated herself that, if allowed, she would attend quietly and with the greatest respect.
ReplyDeleteWhat advice would you give to resolve the situation. Perhaps you should knock some sense into the father. He is the unreasonable belligerent one. Not Beth. All Beth wants to do is to be the best loving mother to her sons. What is wrong with that? What is Michael's problem?
Rabbi Biderman needs to tell us what the boys do all day in his school and why at 5 they can't speak. Does he still stand by the statement he gave to the court that the boys were doing well? Perhapd he should go to the Court now and tell them he got it wrong. That is what an honorable Rabbi would do. Admit his mistake!
ReplyDeleteDo you think it is normal to exclude their mother from the school party?
ReplyDeleteI'd be pretty sure that extraction of those very important front milk teeth would count in a court as a "life event". After all, we speech therapists see children whose front teeth are missing and whose speech can not develop normally because they are unable to form certain sounds which require front teeth in the early stages of language development.
ReplyDeleteAnd how about self-harming? That, too, is an event of major consequence
what relevance does it have whether I think it's normal- the father, whether good or evil, is using his rights and legally, kindergarten is bound to follow his wishes
ReplyDeleteRabbi Biderman as well as addressing the topic of his statement as mentioned below Ralph don't you think as a law abiding Rabbi he should be asking Michael a parent in his school and a congregant in his Shul why he is breaking the law by cancelling his children's visits with their mother.
ReplyDeleteDoes Rabbi Biderman really have the interests of the children at heart and how can a Rabbi, not only refuse to correct a misinformed statement, to the court, but also advise his parent/congregant not to break the law?
Perhaps advice from Dayan Ehrentrau Head of the European Beth Din should be should be sought here!
Also if Rabbi Biderman doesn't answer here he will be showing publically that he is being complicit and baised towards the father and against a perfectly good fit and capable mother.
Rabbi Biderman, as a Rabbi, School & University Principal and Leader and Representative of Chabad, please clarify
your position here for us all to understand!
sorry I don't accept that they are just following the rules. It is clear that Michael is depriving the twins of their mother by aribitrarily cancelling visitation and restricting her time with them. but more importantly he apparently is violating the law by not keeping her informed about what is going on in their lives. the kindergarten is complicit in this crime - not only by secular law but because it is harming the children - also against Torah law as well as common sense.
ReplyDeleteHow can Rabbi Biderman claim he is only following the orders of the secular state when it is obvious this is harming the children and serves no purpose other than making Michael feel good. He should simply tell Michael that if he insists on restricting Beth from the twin's life that he should find another school because what he is doing is WRONG!!
True, Rachel. Through his silence, Rabbi Bidermann is causing Dr Schlesinger's evil to persist. Breaking Austrian law, eg making a mockery of court orders re visits and preventing the providing of relevant Information to the non-custodial parent is evil. So is presenting hearsay and not genuine evidence to a court of law in Austria. True, Rachel. Through his silence, Rabbi Bidermann is doing what Edmund Burke was referring to when he stated, "All it needs for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."
ReplyDeleteSo, dear blog owner, did you obtain the permission for beth to see the children on their birthday or to be present at the kindergarten birthday party?
ReplyDeleteThis blog has been involved in the Schlesinger for several months. Which improvements has he brought aboout?
I think there are three ways to help Beth, listed here in order of efficiency:
1) establish a constructive dialogue with Micheal, so that he becomes more cooperative.
The blog-owner and commentators are doing the contrary.
2) Guide Beth trough the legal options at her disposal to improve her situation.
The blog-owner and commentators are doing the contrary: they know nothing about the legal situation and encourage Beth and others to act against the law, which in turn will worsen Beth's position in front of the judge. Beth reported that the judge already refused to see her. that's not a good sign. anyone who could council Beth to reverse that situation would be of great help.
or
3) encourage Beth to act in a way that she will be perceived as a mature, rational, cooperative parent.The blog-owner and commentators are doing the contrary: they encourage her to act in a hysteric way, to disregard the law and to disrespect her children's caregivers.
Beth: those "friends" are not your friends. Try to find someone who can provide you real help.
Well we can make three guesses:
ReplyDelete1) That the other Vienna Rabbis don't see a problem.
2) That the other Vienna Rabbis are complicit in what is going on, either out of loyalty or out of fear.
3) That the other Vienna Rabbis are trying to work to correct the problem but know that public statements would weaken their position to help.
Personally I am a fan of number 3. Mostly because we see, and have heard that the chief Rabbi of Vienna has repeatedly offered to be the one overseeing the hand off of the children. We have also seen him get subesquently blasted by the Michael Schlessinger supporters.
"Rabbi Biderman needs to tell us what the boys do all day in his school and why at 5 they can't speak."
ReplyDeletereally? So you think that if your children had a learning or speech development problem, the kindergarten personnel should discuss it publicly on internet, while citing their full names?
Like, for example: "Moshi, Rachel Levy's son, has a hard time learning to read. We did an IQ-test. He has an IQ of 80. So we are not sure whether we should keep him in regular school or send him to special needs. Perhaps we will have an online-vote on it to help us decide."
Is it so hard to understand that this would infringe the child's basic personality and data protection rights?
Read the letter again. The letter just says that the children are "calming down" (i.e. there was a major problem) and slowly improving in KINDERGARTEN.
ReplyDeleteIt says nothing whether the father or mother is the better custodial parent, it contains no recommendation in this respect.
Actually, it is a pat on their own shoulder for chabad-kindergarten, and nothing else.
I don't know if Rabbi Biderman is following Daas Torah Noah but you have put this so concisely. Perhaps you can contact him directly. Perhaps someone can publish his contact details!
ReplyDeleteaeiou - what you suggest is definitely the best way - except the multiple attempts to get it to works have failed. Beth has had a number of advisors - legal and otherwise - and yet Michael has not been persuaded to mediate or even comply with the law. The lawyers have been ineffectual and the legal system has acted contrary to the best interests of the people involved. The community - including the school - has not reacted in the expected way. You have noted that you don't know the facts - and I assume that means you haven't read the court papers. Your advice is what I would have given - if I didn't know what I know about the case from the court documents and personal testimonies of people involved. You might want to contact Beth and actually learn the facts instead of sneering at our amateurish efforts.
ReplyDeleteBottom line - Beth has not been following your game plan because it hasn't worked. Either because she hasn't found the right people and/or there is something strange going on not only in the community but the court system. A number of people with connection to the community have told me that the community is genuinely afraid i.e., intimidated and that justice has been perverted.
Your assessment of my role is rather skewed and inaccurate. I didn't advise Beth to go this route - except when multiple attempts to follow your approach had failed. Beth had the choice of giving up and starting life over without the twins - she did lose at the Supreme Court level and the community is clearly not helping her as well as being antagonistic towards her - or trying something different. I offered her the opportunity of keeping the case alive with the hope that someone - perhaps you - could guide her around the obstacles that exist. If you think you can handle it or can recommend someone who is competent to follow the proper path - I have no problem stepping out of the picture. But I feel strongly that Beth should not have to give up hope of being allowed to be the mother to her children again. As long as there is no other option - I will be there for the sake of her kids who are being serverely damaged by this process. Your snickering is not helping.
the issue is why Beth is not kept informed about this.
ReplyDeleteSo, in short; the answer to my quesion "What improvments have you achieved" is "None."
ReplyDeleteSo far, your campaign has brought no improvement to the situation.
It might be that the situation has worsened (Judge refuses to see Beth), but it is hard to determine whether this is due to Beth's behavior alone or also to your campaign.
If the problem is that Beth is not kept informed, I told you what to do: Protocol the fact that she is not informed and then ask the court for a court order to be informed directly.
ReplyDeleteI am quite surprised that you failed to receive a cease and desist for the details you discussed on the blog while citing the full names of the children.
Aeiou - your constant sneering doesn't help anyone - except make Schlesinger supporters feel good about themselves.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have accomplished is to help give Beth hope - when she seemed to have run out of options. She has definitely got greater support and understanding as a result of the publicity. Her alternative was to give up and forget she had children.
It is comparable to see a person drowning and you throw a life preserver to keep their head above water untill they can be rescued. I gather that you think that there is no difference between drowning and not being pulled out of the water.
I am curious though why you are suddenly so active in commentating on this subject. Where have you been until now? Perhaps because you read about it on my blog?
http://lubavitch.com/centers/list.html?Country=Austria&City=Vienna
ReplyDeleteYou are throwing her a life saver made of lead... one that will drown her, instead of saving her. That's why I take issue with your actions.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Tzadok may I correct you, as one of Beth's supporters. We have the utmost respect for Chief Rabbi Eisenberg of Vienna. It appears from derogatory statements on previous Daas Torah blogs that the Austrians do not!
ReplyDeleteIf you could look at Beth's birthday video to the boys, released today, you will see that Beth was a normal capable loving mother to her sons before they were so brutally taken away from her.
The court has given no good reason for their decision and I think this video speaks louder than any words.
The court have got it wrong and the Rabbis need to help bring some sanity
to the situation. The children are doing
very badly and are clearly suffering, as is
Beth. Beth could desert them but she is a strong capable mother and is not prepared to leave her children in such an awful state.
What is Rabbi Biderman doing with these children? Why are they under aachieving?. Why did he make a statement to the court saying, on heresay, that they were doing well psychologically when one was self harming. Retrospectively, he clearlygot it wrong!
Rabbi Biderman needs to answer a few questions don't you think?
As a Rabbi, Rabbi Tzadocwould you be prepared to contact him?
aeiou - so why don't you can involved and contact her?
ReplyDeleteThank you anonymous for the information! My tears of sadness turned into tears of joy as I was able to hold and hug my little boys at their birthday party today! They were so happy to see me too! :) What a mitzvah you did! You have earned your place in heaven for this act of kindness
ReplyDelete1) I don't know her ex and cannot help her with this
ReplyDelete2) I don't know the law & institutions and cannot help her with that
3) I don't suppose she will listen to me, but I gave her several pieces of advice as to her behaviour.
Rachel I can't even begin to express how counter productive that would be.
ReplyDelete1) Many Lubavitchers have no respect for someone who isn't Lubavitch. Even less respect for someone who knowingly and willingly turned their back on Lubavitch(like me).
2) Rabbi Biderman is the head of Lubavitch in Austria. I'm little more than an Avereich in Jerusalem... I have no position of authority to which he would listen.
Really what needs to happen is that higher level individuals in Lubavitch need to be persuaded to back Beth. I gave Rav Eidensohn one possible name and another recently came to mind that I will forward him.
Believe it or not, not everything about this can, or even should be handled publicly.
aeiou Daas Torah • 28 minutes ago
ReplyDelete1) I don't know her ex and cannot help her with this
But yet you feel confident in telling her(and others) how to approach him to get him to behave in a(hitherto unseen) gracious manner.
2) I don't know the law & institutions and cannot help her with that
But you have had no problem expounding upon what can and cannot be done under Austrian law.
3) I don't suppose she will listen to me, but I gave her several pieces of advice as to her behaviour.
Why should she considering your overall negativity. First you said that neither the school or her ex-husband were under any obligation to inform her of the welfare and progress of her children. When you were shown to be wrong regarding that aspect of Austrian law, you persisted in saying that perhaps these things don't qualify under the law. Why is it that you want this poor lady to suffer in silence so badly?
I an so happy for you Beth
ReplyDeleteBut didn't the father cancel your assigned visit today, because the handover centre was mysteriously going to be closed!
Yet more lies! The father had arranged a party on your visiting day. Why did he not tell the truth and more than that, get the centre to lie for him?
Why cant the father just be decent and have invited you to go to Sammy and Benji's party. Why does he do nothing to give the boys any happiness? Why is he so hostile?
What a joy it must have been for the boys to see you at their birthday party. I hope they offered you a piece of birthday cake to enjoy with them!
What influence does he have on Government institutions? The mind boggles. Time to get to the bottom of it!
aeiou you seem to know an awful lot about this case and getting very involved.. I have a really good idea why dont you try and mediate as I am more or less sure you do know the father.
ReplyDeleteDo you have children? Let me ask you that
Aeiou
ReplyDeleteAre you really trying to help bring sanity to this awful situation. You seem to be gloating
I cant tell you how happy I am for you.. Your boys love you and need you Beth. ALL children need both parents in their lives. I cannot imagine as a mother of young children not being able to go to my childrens party. Its so amazing xx
ReplyDeleteBeth's story seemed much more persuasive before visiting this blog.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the various posts and comments, the obvious question is:
Why
do Beth's supporters think that incrimination of her ex-husband in the
court of public opinion will help her or her children?
Why
not stick to the heart of the issue - a mother was distanced from her
children by the Austrian courts on basis of an unfounded mental handicap? Or
on basis of past emotional difficulties that have since lapsed? Period.
Is that not enough?
The husband's
abuse, the rabbi-judge conspiracy make a great sensational story, but have nothing
to do with the issue. On the contrary, I would expect the husband and
the Austrian courts to become more hostile after being slandered in the
media for an alleged conspiracy.
My
heart goes out to every mother in situations like these, but it seems that Ms. Beth's supporters are more concerned about the "plot" than the
actual reunion with her children.
This is the talk of an abuser.
ReplyDeleteAEIOU is trying to shut Beth up by saying she is behaving badly!
Why does he think her behaviour is so bad. All she wants to be is a mother to her children.
The father lilke Aeiou is a control freak
He cares more about controlling Beth than caring for his children. If he so controlling with Beth that must be his nature and I am very worried how he treats the children. Maybe this why don't talk. They are so scared of him poor things.
yml after reading your posts I am curious as to your motivation. I assume you are a Lubavitcher and your prime concern is that Rabbi Biderman needs to be defended. The simple way is to say that his involvement is not relevant. However your strategy of ignoring the facts and the processes that led to these facts is not productive. On what basis do you propose bringing about change? The husband has pushed the issue of mental illness and the courts have responded inappropriately - so therefore you proposed we ignore that reality?!
ReplyDelete..."it seems that Ms. Beth's supporters are more concerned about the "plot" than the actual reunion with her children."
ReplyDeleteI got the same impression.
"of ignoring the facts"
ReplyDeleteMe thinks that you, as the blog owner, ignore a large part of the facts too. Among them the legal situation...
I don't know the law and authorities well enough to be of true help, since I'm not a local. However, I know the law well enough to identify blatant misinformation about the law. It was easy to find out that blog owner was completely wrong when contending that the kindergarten is allowed to share information with persons other than custodial parents.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty much the same everywhere, and you do not need to be a genius or a lawyer to find that out.
I do not want her to suffer in silence. I want her to take efficient steps, rather than unefficient steps. Blurting on the net that the kindergarten should share information is an unefficient step.
Documenting that visits don't take place or that information is withheld would be an efficient step.
Going to court with the documents and asking for a court order in order to obtain information directly from school would be an efficient step.
Going to court (with documents and proof) asking for a "Besuchsrechtsbegleitung" who is responsable (on court order) for enforcing visitations would be efficient.
Contacting organisations of fathers who fight similar fights might help.
Bringing the kindergarten to act against the father's orders is a dangerous step...
aeiou - I never claimed to be a lawyer and I am not coordinating Beth's activities. She has a lawyer and other advisors. My concern has simply to keep the cause alive until someone can find an avenue to correct this mess. Therefore I have focused on the obvious problems and injustice. I think you have given some good suggestions - but it is up to Beth and her advisors to implement them.
ReplyDeleteBut you keep writing as if Beth's sole efforts are this blog and I am a type of Svengali giving out bad advice as we go off the cliff. While on the one hand it is flattering to be told of my omnipotence and degrading to be told of my incompetence - the actual story is significantly different then you describe.
As I wrote already: you should do a minimum of due diligence. Claiming that the kindergarten should share information or do what Beth asks for against the father's wishes shows that you did not do minimal research.
ReplyDeleteWhat I found particularly audacious on your part was when you claimed that the local kindergarten personnel was mistaken about the local law pertaining to sharing information.
ReplyDeleteNow that it turned out you were wrong, you do not only look like a fool, but like an arrogant fool.
aeiou - my my - do I detect hostility? Who are you backing because you are clearly not a neutral observer.Apparently not Michael Schlesinger because you haven't made any angry comments about what has been said about him. It is obvious in fact that you are defending Rabbi Biderman. Did he ask you to attack me? Do you really think that your comments are making him look better?
ReplyDeleteWhere do you detect hostility? In the fact that I pointed out it takes a large amount of hubris paired with an equally large amount of ignorance to make some of the statements you made in this thread?
ReplyDeleteIf it weren't for your hubris, you could just acknowledge that as a fact.
But of course, you can also go on in the hubris of your imagines infallibility and spin new tales to fit your image of the world and of yourself.
aeiou, instead of perseverating on the topic of whether the blog-owner
ReplyDeletewas wise to argue about information rights in Austria or not, would it
not be considerably more useful if you were to propose some possible
solutions? You and your pal yml could get in touch with Rabbi Biderman,
the person who is probably, along with the father of the twins, the key
to this whole shemozzle.
Rabbi Biderman, as you know, is a man
of great influence and power in the Vienna Jewish community, so much so
that he apparently has more enemies than the average person. There is
presumably an atmosphere of fear and trepidation when he is involved in a
dispute. I'd suggest that both you and yml, who I suspect maintain good
relations with him, as Rabbi Eidensohn suggests, sit down with your
friend Rabbi Biderman and work out what you can do in a practical way to
help Sammy and Benji. Your current agenda is wasting both time and
space. The twins need people who are hands-on, not quarrelsome just for the
sake of being so. Do you actually care about the boys at all?
Today was EU election day in Austria, as in the rest of the member states, but that was no reason for a visiting centre to remain closed. The father gave a party for his sons at a "kosher eatery" - what a lovely idea! But... at the expense of the designated day for a visit with their mother. Rachel Levy - you are sure to be right. There is no other possibility than that the father got the centre to tell the mother a white lie. I wonder if he also paid them for it......
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like Sammy and Benji were thrilled to bits to see their mum on their birthday and it was compassionate of Anonymous to inform her via this blog as to where it was to take place. Once again, the father has shown himself to be the cruel and sadistic person we all know - only too well - that he must be. Men like him should never be awarded custody of children.
Aeiou you have not answered my question lower down!
ReplyDeleteWould you disobey a court order as the father has done?
you have not answered my question whether you would like the staff of your children's kindergarten/school to discuss their develolpment delays or learning disabilities on Internet, citing their full names...
ReplyDeleteAnd I did not see your question. I would avoid disobeying court orders.
Anonymous is a wonderful person with civil courage. There should be more like him or her in the Vienna community. The adults present at the party must have had qualms of conscience when they noticed the boys reacting so positively to their beloved mother's unexpected presence. They agreed either to attend or take their own kids to a party which was associated with the banning of the lovely person who gave birth to these boys. I wonder how many were aware of the way in which the host had plotted in order to invite them all to the restaurant...
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify the father cancelled two visits this week! Why? Why was Beth told that it was because the visiting centre was closed today when the real reason was that the father was making the twins a birthday party.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't any caring responsible and truthful person have told Beth the truth and even have invited Beth to join in today's celebrations.
Is Michael Schlesinger above the court . Doesn't he care or have any respect. In England his behaviour would be punishable! How is he getting away with it? Whathappened to Tuesdays visit? What's his excuse for cancelling lastTuesday?
What is really going on?
aeiou: Not only are you belligerent and uncaring but you also fail to reproduce the truth. Please take a glance at what appeared on this blog recently. Rabbi Biderman's HEARSAY was accepted by Judge Göttlicher when he stated that the children had "developed psychologically". Firstly, he had no right to use hearsay as evidence, secondly, there is no baseline with which to compare this assessment, and thirdly, if one of the children was self-harming, then there is no way anyone could declare that that one had "developed psychologically". The opposite, in fact, would be true.
ReplyDelete---------------- Dated 15.5.2012
I, Rabbi Jacob Biderman, born on 28.11.1957 declare the following in testimony to the court:
In the last few days I was contacted by a Rabbinic colleague in England
who informed me that an acquaintance of Beth Schlesinger has initiated a
media campaign which is about to be publicised. The media campaign
claims that this is a 'horror story,' that the twins Samuel and Benjamin
Schlesinger are in a very bad state with their father and that their
father is endangering them. They further claim that this is demonstrated
by the fact that Samuel needed a number of teeth removed. I refuted
these claims and told this Rabbi that the director of the Lauder Chabad
Kindergarten, which is under my authority, has told me not only about
how well the children have settled into kindergarten since Autumn but
also how much they have developed psychologically. I also told my
English colleague that these false and one-sided claims illustrate
amateur journalism and above all, harm the children Furthermore, I am
being harassed by different Rabbonim from England, Israel and Australia
who have contacted me to ask me to help the mother because - according
to her - the children are in a terrible state.
I don't expect the kindergarten to discuss the the boys development on the Internet but because of the bizarre circumstances, this case is of public interest.
ReplyDeleteContrary to a statement made by R. Biderman three years ago, these children are not doing at all well. It would appear that the only therapy not tried is mother therapy.
There is no good reason for Beth not to have a lot more contact and overnight stays.
In the interest of the boys R. Biderman should be telling both the father and the court this.
AEIOU you still havent answered my post either
ReplyDeleteaeiou do you not agree that the children are the ones being effected in this whole mess? They are probably so confused. They love their mother and their father and there is constant animosity between them. They are being used as weapons and this is not fair. Why should a mother only be allowed to see her children for a limited amount of time a week when clearly they need her more?
I do not understand what the father is achieving in all this by cancelling visits etc?
So how did the father react?
ReplyDeleteYes, that's exactly my question?
ReplyDeleteI read up on "Besuchsbegleitung". Apparently, it is for cases where the exes jump at each other's throat each time they see each other. So, in order to spare the children the "jumping-at-throat"-spectacle, the parents should not meet at transitions.
However, this Besuchsbegleitung should not go on for more than 6 months, max. 1 year - implying that after this period of time, the exes should have learned to interact civilly with each other.
so here are my questions:
Why did the court order "Besuchsbegleitung"?
For how long has it been going on?
Why?
I think the two persons who can most efficiently help beth are Michael Schlesinger, and the judge.
ReplyDeleteThose are the people she needs to convince.
And those are the people you should try to convince if you want to help her.
Yes, why?
ReplyDeleteI would like answers to the same questions!
Beth doesn't have any problem doing a direct handover with the father. He is the one putting obstacles in the way.
ReplyDeleteShe went quietly to the birthday party yesterday and the boys and other parents and children enjoyed her being there.
Beth only wants the boys to be happy and to thrive. I am sure the father must want that too.
Beth and Michael need to be civil to one another for the sake of the children. Beth took a good step forward yesterday. Now Michael must do the same.
thank you aeiou for your balanced perspective. a lone voice of reason among the blabbering fools
ReplyDeleteaeiou - you sound like the big city boy who comes to discuss the real world with a bunch of country bumpkins. Your condescending tone is obvious. If you bothered reading the many comments dealing with the Weiss-Dodelson divorce or the Friedman- Epstein divorce you would understand that your comment is very inaccurate. If it is too hard for you to tone down your comments they will simply be blocked in the future.
ReplyDeleteActually, this was the answer to your question whether I "work" for Rabbi Biderman.
ReplyDeleteThe answer is: no, I have nothing to do with rabbi Biderman, but I think that your attacks against him are uncalled for.
AEIOU please could you answer the following in response to the below..
ReplyDeleteBeth doesn't have any problem doing a direct handover with the father. He is the one putting obstacles in the way.
She went quietly to the birthday party yesterday and the boys and other parents and children enjoyed her being there.
Beth only wants the boys to be happy and to thrive. I am sure the father must want that too.
Beth and Michael need to be civil to one another for the sake of the children. Beth took a good step forward yesterday. Now Michael must do the same.
"Beth and Michael need to be civil to one another for the sake of the children."
ReplyDeleteI agree 100%. By the way, that is also what the law in Austria says. I don't know much about the law in Austria (that's why I recommend Beth to find someone who knows enough to help her), but I suppose that once a custody agreement is reached and went through all the instances, it will be very, very difficult if not impossible to have it changed.
So I think that in the long run, the visitation hours will remain what they are, unless someone can bring Michael to change his opinion and agree to more frequent or longer visitations - or perhaps also if the children ask for it - once they are able to.
On the other hand, if the custodial does not comply with visitation, he can be fined and, in extreme cases, even jailed. As I told you, I don't know how this plays out in practice (what counts as non-compliance, how high the fines are, etc)
So the easiest way to remedy the situation would be to restaure a working relationship between Beth and Michael. That's why I said that the best help would be to establish a constructive dialogue with Michael.
Aeiou Don't you think Rabbi Biderman would be able to help. He knows Michael Beth and the children so well!
ReplyDeleteDo you think there might be a causal relation between the fact that she had Michael on supervised visits when she had custody, and the fact that he wants supervised transitions now?
ReplyDeleteIf that is the problem, a first step would be for Beth to write a letter to Micheal and apologise for that and explain her motivations. Maybe he will react positively to that.
I fear that the two approaches of leading a public campaign against Schlesinger and at the same time getting him to be more cooperative are somewhat contradictory.
I suppose the children could ask for a new custody arrangement, but at the same time, they seem to young to do it now, because they would have to court themselves.
Your assumption that Michael would have been quite reasonable about custody but has the urge to exact revenge - even at the expense of his children is an interesting suggestion. If he were that reasonable the marriage probably could have been saved. The elephant in the room is why a judge would award custody to a man who had previously been required because of his bizarre actions and abuse from having only supervised visits.
ReplyDeleteThere is no evidence that Michael is amenable to having this mess mediated. However If anybody who knows Michael feels other wise - please speak up. The public campaign is simply because the more appropriate channels have been blocked by Michael
You see, that's where we lack information...
ReplyDeletebecause if Beth used the word "violent" the way she used it in her campaign, and this got her to ban Michael from unsupervised visits, and later the judges found out that by "violence" she did not mean physical violence but that fact that he tried to have her committed, this might partly explain the negative attitude of the courts towards Beth...
Has Beth tried the avenue of apologizing?
Aeiou you gave a suggestion below regarding Beth apologising or grovelling to Michael for him to allow her to see her sons more to which Rabbi Eidensohn has responded!
ReplyDeleteI would add that, whereas Michael was only allowed supervised visits, as he was a danger to the children, until the judge bizarrely turned and suddenly gave him full
and immediately custody!
Beth has never needed any supervised visits in the three years they have been with Michael. We have seen through photos how well Beth takes care of the children and how happy they have been with her since they were born.
A camera/video cannot lie!
Rabbi Biderman made a false statement to the Court three years ago saying that the children were doing well psychologically when they were self harming. In retrospect it has been proven that his Statement was wrong. The children ars unhappy not thriving and don't speak.
No 1) Rabbi Biderman needs to tell the judge that he was mistaken and mis guided and the kindergarten have been unable to help the boys as he had hoped.
School is a parent/tsacher process and the school are dealing with the wrong parent.
Lets see if Rabbi Biderman and the Chabad Kindergarten in Vienna really do have the best interests of Sammy and Benji at heart.
Aeiou I look forward to your response!
Your assumption is simply wrong. There was physical abuse - which is why Beth went to a shelter to get away from Michael. There was psychological abuse in that Michael insisted/insists that Beth was/is severely mentally ill - when it simply wasn't so. Michael's behavior in general with Beth was often irrational and went way beyond simple disagreement of opinion. Michael lied by claiming to be a psychiatrist. It was the police and their psychiatrist that evaluated that Michael's bizarre attempt to hospitalize and the clear evidence of abuse - meant he was not safe to either remain in the house or have unsupervised visits.
ReplyDeleteIt is not a case of he said/she said. And yet the court reversed the custody arrangement. Having read the various psychologist reports and the court records I have not been able to understand why.
So your solution of Beth apoligizing is really not a solution. Beth should apologize for being upset about being abused!? Beth should apologize for acting as loving mother who is seeing her children being destroyed by her exhusband?!
Beth probably would apologize - in spite of the past - if that brought about positive change. However given Michael's history of abuse - it would only reinforce his negative behavior not improve it. I assume you are aware of the behavior of abusive husbands and the cycle of abuse and the wife forgiving until she is simply a psychological wreck totally dependent upon her husband and taking total responsiblity for all anger and abuse from her husband. Apologizing is equivalent to using gasoline to put out a fire.
@aeiou:
ReplyDeleteThe children can't speak! They can only use words but form no sentences although it is possible to understand that they are suffering because of their few words and obvious gestures. Sadly, they are too young in any case to request a new custody arrangement.
I want to appreciation to Dr.Agbazara of AGBAZARA TEMPLE for bringing back my husband who left me and the kids for almost 2 years. i never taught i would get him back untill i saw a comment online about dr.agbazara and i contacted him, after following all instruction given to me by Dr.Agbazara, my husband came back begging for forgiveness within the space of 48hours. Thanks doctor your spell is really great. For those of you who have marriage/relationship problem should contacct him for hel via (agbazara@gmail.com) OR call (+2348104102662). And experience it your self.
ReplyDeleteAYE C.JAMES from USA
BE CAREFUL HERE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR EVEN SUGGEST HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR EX OR LOVE BACK,ANY TESTIMONIES OF MOST SPELL CASTER HERE MUST BE IGNORE.BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE SCAM I MEAN REAL SCAM WHICH I WAS A VICTIM AND I GOT RIPPED OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE I WAS SO ANXIOUS TO GET MY WIFE BACK AFTER SHE LEFT ME FOR OVER 2 YEARS WITH MY 7 YEARS OLD SON JERRY,I HAVE APPLIED TO 7 DIFFERENT SPELL CASTER HERE AND ALL TO NO AVAIL THEY ALL ASK FOR SAME THING SEND YOUR NAME YOUR EX NAME ADDRESS AND PICTURE PHONE NUMBER ETC WHICH I DID OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MOST OF THEM WERE FROM WEST AFRICA UNTIL I SAW A POST ABOUT MAMA ANITA SPELL AND I DECIDED TO GAVE HER MY LAST TRAIL.SHE ASK ME FOUR THINGS MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND $180 AND SAID MY EX WILL COME BACK IN 24HOURS, I HAVE PAID OVER $3000 ON SPELL CASTING AND COURIER AND NOTHING HAVE WORK FOR ME AFTER 3 DAYS I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HAVE LOST SO FAR SO I SAID LET ME GIVE HER A TRY SO I CALLED HER AGAIN AND SEND MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND THE $180 BECAUSE I SWEAR IT WAS MY LAST TRY SO I WAS WAITING AS SHE TOLD ME TO WAIT TILL NEXT DAY AND I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT BECAUSE I REALLY LOVE MY WIFE AND WANT HER BACK AT 9PM THAT DAY I SAW MY WIFE ON LINE ON FACE BOOK AND SHE SAID HI AT FIRST I WAS SHOCK BECAUSE SHE NEVER TALK WITH ME FOR THE PAST A YEAR AND 9 MONTH NOW I DID NOT REPLY AGAIN SHE SAID ARE YOU THERE? I QUICKLY REPLY YES AND SHE SAID CAN WE SEE TOMORROW I SAID YES AND SHE WENT OFF-LINE I WAS CONFUSED I TRY TO CHAT HER AGAIN BUT SHE WAS NO MORE ON LINE I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT AS I WAS WONDERING WHAT SHE IS GOING TO SAY, BY 7.AM THE NEXT MORNING SHE GAVE ME A MISS CALL I DECIDED NOT TO CALL BACK AS I WAS STILL ON SHOCK AGAIN SHE CALL AND I PICK SHE SAID CAN WE SEE AFTER WORK TODAY I SAID YES SO SHE END THE CALL IMMEDIATELY I GOT OFF WORK SHE CALL ME AND WE MEET AND NOW WE ARE BACK AGAIN I CALL MAMA ANITA THE NEXT DAY THANKING HER FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE IN FACT I STILL CALL HER AND THANK HER AS MY LIFE WAS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT MY WIFE PLEASE BE CAREFUL HERE I HAVE BEEN SCAM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IF YOU WANT A TRUE LOVE SPELL THEN CONTACT MAMA ANITA (mama.anitatruelovespell@gmail.com)
ReplyDeleteMy boyfriend dumped me a week ago after I accused him of seeing someone else and insulting him. I want him back in my life but he refuse to have any contact with me. I was so confuse and don't know what to do, so I reach to the internet for help and I saw a testimony of how a spell caster help them to get their ex back so I contact the spell caster and explain my problem to him and he cast a spell for me and assure me of 2days that my ex will return to me and to my greatest surprise the second day my ex came knocking on my door and beg for forgiveness. I am so happy that my love is back again and not only that, we are about to get married. Once again thank you DR OJEFOR spell. You are truly talented and gifted. Email: DROJEFORSPELLCASTER@GMAIL.COM is the only answer. He can be of great help and I will not stop publishing him because he is a wonderful man.....
ReplyDeletehe can solve the following......
(1) If you want your ex back.
(2) if you always have bad dreams.
(3) You want to be promoted in your office.
(4) You want women/men to run after you.
(5) If you want a child.
(6) You want to be rich.
(7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be
yours forever.
(8) If you need financial assistance.
(9) Herbal care
(10) If you can be able to satisfy your wife
sex desire due
to low erraction.
(11) if your menstruation refuse to come
out the day it
suppose or over flows.
(12) if your work refuse to pay your, people
owing you?.
(13) solve a land issue and get it back.
(14) Did your family Denny you of your
right?
(15) Let people obey my words and do my
which.
(16) Do you have a low sperm count?
(17) bad lucks
(18)HIV CURE
hello,i am From United Kingdom. I wish to share my testimonies with the general public about what this man called Dr OKORO has just done for me , this man has just brought back my lost Ex husband to me with his great spell, I was married to this man called Steven we were together for a long time and we loved our self’s but when I was unable to give him a child for 2 years he left me and told me he can’t continue anymore then I was now looking for ways to get him back until a friend of mine told me about this man and gave his contact email(DROKOROTEMPLE@GMAIL.COM) then you won’t believe this, when I contacted this man on my problems he prepared this spell cast. and bring my lost husband back, and after a month I miss my monthly period and i go for a test and the result stated am pregnant. am happy today am a mother of a baby girl, thank you once again the great DR OKORO for what you have done for me, if you are out there passing through any of this problems listed below: you can contact him via Email; DROKOROTEMPLE@GMAIL.COM
ReplyDelete1) If you want your ex back.
(2) if you always have bad dreams.
(3) You want to be promoted in your office.
(4) You want women/men to run after you.
(5) If you want a child.
(6) You want to be rich.
(7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be
yours forever.
(8) Or you have been scammed and you want to recover your lost money (drokorotemple@gmail.com)
MY NAME IS ALLEN SPENCER I AM A WOMAN WHO HAS ALOT TO SAY ABOUT MY MARRIAGE, MY HUSBAND LEFT ME AFTER FOUR YEARS OF MARRIAGE WITH TWO KIDS, I DIDNT HAVE A JOB AND IT WAS AS IF THE WHOLE WORLD CAME CRASHING ON ME UNTIL I MET THIS GREAT SPELL CASTER PROPHET FATAI SAMUDU WHO HELPED ME, HE ASKED FOR MY DETAILS AND THAT OF MY HUSBAND AND HE PROMISED ME THAT HE WILL RETURN BACK TO ME BECAUSE I HAD SUFFERED ALOT IN THE HANDS OF MEN I DIDNT THINK ABOUT IT UNTIL IT HAPPENED THREE DAYS AFTER HIS PROMISE MY HUSBAND WHO HAVE NOT CALLED ME OR THE KIDS FOR TWO YEARS CALLED ME AND ASKED FOR MY NEW HOUSE ADDRESS AND HE CAME KNOCKING AT MY DOOR, TO CUT THE WHOLE STORY SHORT, IF YOU HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS AND OR YOU NEED THE HELP OF A SPIRITUALIST YOU CAN CONTACT HIM THE SAME WAY I CONTACTED HIM AND HE HELPED ME VIA prophetfataispiritualtemple@gmail.com.
ReplyDeleteMy heart is filled with so much joy today because of what the great Dr
ReplyDeleteOse has done in my life. I got married to my loving husband 4 years ago
and we were living a happy life together as young couples and everything
was moving on smoothly without know disturbance, but to my greatest
surprise I discover my husband have a mistress in his working place and
they were seeing each other after work hour. on one faithful night my
husband came back home and started packing all his belongings and told
me that he is tired of me that he is filing for a annulment not knowing
that his mistress has cast love spell on him that was why he was acting
strange so I told my friend Grace in my working place so she gave me
this contact droseghalespelltemple@gmail.com and ask me to contact him
that he will help me to bring back my husband in noon less than three
days so when I got home I contact him and he told me that my husband is
under a great love spell but he promise to help bring back my husband
which he actually did within the period of three days. I was surprise to
see my husband on one blessed mourning kneeling at my doorstep asking
for my forgiveness saying it is the work of the devil that he did not
know when he did what he has done and I forgave him and today we are
living happily together. all thanks to great Dr. Ose for his great help
in my family for helping me to restore my lost joy to my family, in-case
you have similar case or even worst than my own your can contact him
with his EMAIL ADDRESS: droseghalespelltemple@gmail.com
i want to thank Dr Zaba for bringing back my ex husband, we broke up for more than 4 month and he told me that he never want to see me in his life again. i love him so much to the extend that i could not do any thing again, i was confused and depress due to the love i had for him.i did everything i could do to have him come back to me but all went in vain. so i decided to contact a spell caster, i did not believe in spell casting i just want to try it may be it would work out for me. i contacted Dr Zaba for help, he told me that he have to cast a love spell on him, i told him to start it. after 3 days my husband called me and started to apologize for leaving me and also he told me that he still love me. i was very happy and i thank Dr Zaba for helping me get back my ex husband back to my hands. his spell is the the greatest all over the world, it was the love spell he cast on my ex that make him come back to me. all you ladies who want back the ex husband back i want you to contact Dr Zaba at the following email address and get all your problem solve..No problem is too big for him to solve..Contact him direct at (ZABASPELLHELP@GMAIL.COM) OR (Zabaspellhelp@yahoo.com) and get your problems solve or you can call his cell pheno on +2348056391583..
ReplyDeleteHello every body,
ReplyDeleteMy mouth is full of testimonies, Am Amory Stephan, from united state, my husband left the home for two years to south Africa for a tourist, where he meant this prostitute and he was bewitch by the girl my husband refuse to come back home again, i cry day and night looking for who to help me, i read a news paper about a powerful spell caster called prophet viky i contacted the spell caster to help me get my lover back to me and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods we fight for me.. he told me by mid-night when all the spirit is at rest he will cast a spell to reunite my lover back to me. and he did in less than 3 days my husband came back to me and started crying that i should for forgive him, i,m so happy for what this spell caster did for me and my husband.. prophet lord of solutionoflovespelltemple@gmail.com
Hello
ReplyDeleteMy name is Angelica Marie from united states, i am married with two kids. Life has been a misery for me and my kids for over six years when my husband dumped me for his new mistress due to some minor misunderstanding that we had. So he engage in a fight with me and throw me out of the house, so all through these sorrowful period of my life, i have been in pain. So one day, as i was browsing through the internet, i came across many post about spell casters testifying how they were helped by them so i decided to seek help and advice. but naturally i didn't believe in spells or magic powers but due to the fact that i was deeply in love with my husband, i decided to go for a try, So i came in contact with Dr.iayaryi of driayaryi2012@hotmail.com but before i contact Dr.iayaryi, i was scammed by a lot of spell casters who makes me believe that they can help me. So because of all these, i almost lost hope that i can't get my husband back anymore so when i contacted this Dr.iayaryi, he assure me that he will help me to reunite my marriage, so without demanding any single cent from me, he did a spell for me and he advice me to wait for just 24 hours. I actually waited as he said, so when it was 24 hours after he did the spell, my husband actually called me on my mobile phone and started apologizing for everything that he had caused me and the kids. This was how my marriage was reunited again and Starting from this point till date, i and my husband has been living peacefully and happily. Anybody viewing this testimony should please stop by and read and if you are so interested in contacting Dr. iayaryi for any help, simply do that via his email id (driayaryi2012@hotmail.com) and remain happy. Thanks.
Hello every body my name is Glen Victoria from USA Thanks to Dr charles for helping me get pregnant after 8 years of marriage with my husband we have been to several hospital for checkup and the doctors keep telling us that nothing is wrong with us so my friend at my work place linked me with with this great spell caster Dr charles email: hivspelltemple@gmail.com who helped me with my problem .... now am a happy mother of a baby girl thanks to you Dr charles ... i am shearing this testimony to tell you Dr charles how grateful i'm for your love and assist in saving my marriage and also bringing joy and happiness to my family...... you can contact this great man and be sure to get quick solution to what ever problem you may be having at email: hivspelltemple@gmail.com ... once again thank you doctor
ReplyDeleteMy name is Tiffany Sanchez from USA My boyfriend and I were happy as far as I could tell and I never thought that we would break up. When his cousin died in a tragic car accident he went back to Philippine for a week to be with his family. I could not go because I was in the middle of entertaining out of town clients for work. He did not seem to be upset that I could not go so I let him be. The next thing that I know, he reconnected with an old friend from high school that he had a crush on years ago and they started to have an affair! I had no clue what was going on until a month after he came back from Philippine.He proceeded to see both her and I until I caught him testing her one night. I confronted him and he told me the truth about what happened. We broke up and went our separate ways. Neither of us fought for our relationship. I was angry and decided not to be upset about it and just keep it moving. Then after about a month of not speaking to him I became sad. I wanted him to tell me that he wanted to be with me and not her. I contacted prophet ekpen for a love spell and he totally helped me! he was able to get him to miss me to where he wanted to get back together again. He had a lot of regrets and felt bad for not fighting to keep me and for cheating in general. He values our relationship so much more now and we are together now! You can also get your lover back with the help of prophet ekpen contact him through his email: prophetekpen@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteDo you want to be a member of Illuminati as a brotherhood that will make you rich and famous in the world and have power to control people in the high place in the worldwide .Are you a business man or woman,artist, political, musician, student, the you want to be rich, famous, powerful in life, join the Illuminati brotherhood cult today and get instant rich sum of. 2 million dollars in a week, and a free home.any where you choose to live in this world and also get 10,000,000 U.S dollars monthly as a salary %u2026 BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO JOIN ILLUMINATI. 1. A Cash Reward of USD $500,000 USD 2. A New Sleek Dream CAR valued at USD $300,000 USD 3.A Dream House bought in the country of your own choice 4. One Month holiday (fully paid) to your dream tourist destination. 5.One year Golf Membership package 6.A V.I.P treatment in all Airports in the World 7.A total Lifestyle change 8.Access to Bohemian Grove 9.Monthly payment of $1,000,000 USD into your bank account every month as a member 10.One Month booked Appointment with Top 5 world Leaders and Top 5 Celebrities in the World. If you are interested call the now or email morganilluminatirich@gmail.com us +2347061824880 ..Y.M.C.B RICH FORE EVER
ReplyDelete• MY HIV DISEASE WAS CURED BY DR NICE, WITH HIS HERBAL HEALING SPELL/ (drniceharbelhealinghome@gmail.com).DR NICE is the only Dr who could ever get my HIV-AIDS cured with his healing spell, I have tried almost everything but I couldn’t find any solution on my disease, despite all these happening to me, I always spend a lot to buy a HIV drugs from hospital and taking some several medications but no relieve, until one day I was just browsing on the internet when I come across a great post of! Michelle! who truly said that she was been diagnose with HIV and was healed that very week through the help of these great powerful healing spell doctor, sometime I really wonder why people called him DR NICE I never knew it was all because of the great and perfect work that he has been doing that is causing all this. so I quickly contacted him, and he ask me some few questions and he said a thing I will never forget that anyone who contacted him is! always getting his or her healing in just 6 hours after doing all he ask you, so I was amazed all the time I heard that from him, so I did all things only to see that at the very day which he said I will be healed, all the strength that has left me before rush back and I becomes very strong and healthy, this disease almost kills my life all because of me, so I went to hospital to give the final test to the disease and the doctor said I am HIV negative, I am very amazed and happy about the healing Dr NICE gave to me from the ancient part of Africa, you can email him now for your own healing too at :drniceharbelhealinghome@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteMy name is Wade Lyons from Seatle in USA. Am here to testify of a great and powerful spell caster named Doctor Azul via his email: { Azulspelltemple@outlook.com }. I was so confused and devastated when my WIfe left me for another man. I needed her back desperately because i loved her so much. So i contacted this great spell caster for a help. He helped me cast a return love spell on her and just within 12 to 16 hours my Wife came back to me crying and begging for my forgiveness. I want to recommend this great spell caster to anyone that truly needs an urgent solution to a love break up. Simply contact the great Doctor Azul via his email address { Azulspelltemple@outlook.com }.
ReplyDeleteHello to every one out here, am here to share the unexpected miracle that happened to me three days ago, My name is Edwin Wallace i live in United State,and I`m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she did not love me anymore So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(drakugbespellhome@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who did not call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website {drakugbespellhome@gmail.com},i f you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr clement for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again.(drakugbespellhome@gmail.com }, Thanks..
ReplyDeleteHello to every one out here, am here to share the unexpected miracle that happened to me three days ago, My name is ERIC kuma i live in United State,and I`m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she did not love me anymore So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(drakugbespellhome@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who did not call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website {drakugbespellhome@gmail.com},i f you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr clement for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again.(drakugbespellhome@gmail.com }, Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI want to share the experience i have with Dr. Stanley to everyone here. I was in a relationship with my boyfriend for 4years and we were about getting married when we both have misunderstanding with each other and he ask me for a break to think about the wedding and i agreed and after 1month I head that he was having an affair with one of my closest friend and I was very upset and frustrated. So a friend of my ask me if I still love my ex and if I really want to have him back so I told her yes, and she ask me to contact drstanleyspelltemple@hotmail.com and I did. Although, I never believe on spell, but because i need the help badly so i decided to give it a try, After 48HOURS of casting the spell my boyfriend call me back and ask for forgiveness and that he want me back in his life again. We are now back together and he is now so committed and love me as never before. If you need his help you can contact him via drstanleyspelltemple@hotmail.com or call +2348038139297 and your help is guarantee as my.............Jane
ReplyDeleteA while ago I complained bitterly on this website of how I was confused and didn't know what to do about my parents divorce. Now, I'm so Happy & just want to share the testimony of how I contacted this powerful spell caster and stopped the divorce of my mum and dad.
ReplyDeleteMy dad was an alcoholic and my mum was a devoted christian she tried all her best to change him but nothing seemed to work. As time went on my mum grew tired of the marriage and wanted a divorce. That actually made me realize how that would affect me and my siblings. I decided to get help. I have heard of spell
casters but I had never tried one and didn't know what to expect. I went online to look for a solution and after days of research I came across the solution in form Dr. Olly.
I sent Dr. Olly an email on HOMEOFANCIENTSPELLS@YAHOO.COM immediately and he told me he would help me. When I came back from school on the second day of casting he spell, I was greeted to the site of my Dad on his knees with tears in his eyes telling my mum how much he loved her and how he was willing to stop the excessive alcohol intake. My mum was equally in tears saying how much she loved him and she had forgiven him. Till today, I'm still grateful to this great man because he not only brought them back together, my dad also stopped taking alcohol. I am happy that we are now a united family and living happily just like i have ever wanted all thanks to this great man.
Sharing this testimony because this is all i have to offer, as I am young and have no money to give to him. You can also call him on +2348186233089, you can tell him you were referred by Dylan, the little boy he helped. I'll be forever grateful to such a powerful man. I am Dylan and I am 15 years old.
I can relate with lovers who are in the DARKEST times of their relationships because I've been there and trust me, it's a VERY BAD place to be. I was facing challenges in my relationship for close to two years.It was full of chaos,heartbreaks and tears.I loved my man and didn't want to lose him because we had a son and a daughter together.Nearly gave up on the relationship,till my best friend came across Dr Sugar Olumba.I gave him a try and contacted him.He assured me that the problem would be solved.True to his words my husband came back to his senses.Words can't explain my feelings.Dr Sugar Olumba was a blessing.Serenedipity.Sunshine knocked on our door.Their was warmth.My husband now makes me feel like the only woman in the world.On valentines day he bought me a car with a bouquet of roses to reassure me of his undying love.Thank you Dr Sugar Olumba. In my bid to help out people in dying need of help urgently in the worst cases of issues of relationship, Dr Sugar Olumba's contact is stated below:
ReplyDeleteEmail: olumbatemple@gmail.com OR Call +2348109338488
A while ago I complained bitterly on this website of how I was confused and didn't know what to do about my parents divorce. Now, I'm so Happy & just want to share the testimony of how I contacted this powerful spell caster and stopped the divorce of my mum and dad.
ReplyDeleteMy dad was an alcoholic and my mum was a devoted christian she tried all her best to change him but nothing seemed to work. As time went on my mum grew tired of the marriage and wanted a divorce. That actually made me realize how that would affect me and my siblings. I decided to get help. I have heard of spell
casters but I had never tried one and didn't know what to expect. I went online to look for a solution and after days of research I came across the solution in form Dr. Olly.
I sent Dr. Olly an email on HOMEOFANCIENTSPELLS@YAHOO.COM immediately and he told me he would help me. When I came back from school on the second day of casting he spell, I was greeted to the site of my Dad on his knees with tears in his eyes telling my mum how much he loved her and how he was willing to stop the excessive alcohol intake. My mum was equally in tears saying how much she loved him and she had forgiven him. Till today, I'm still grateful to this great man because he not only brought them back together, my dad also stopped taking alcohol. I am happy that we are now a united family and living happily just like i have ever wanted all thanks to this great man.
Sharing this testimony because this is all i have to offer, as I am young and have no money to give to him. You can also call him on +2348186233089, you can tell him you were referred by Dylan, the little boy he helped. I'll be forever grateful to such a powerful man.
..Hello
ReplyDeleteI am Clara Julie,From USA, I am out here to spreed this good news to the
entire world on how I got my ex lover back.I was going crazy when my
love left me for another girl last month, But when i meet a friend that
introduce me to Dr uzoya the great messenger to the oracle that he
serve,I narrated my problem to Dr uzoya about how my ex love left me
and also how i needed to get a job in a very big company.He only said to
me that i have come to the right place were i will be getting my heart
desire without any side effect.He told me what i need to do,After it has
been done,In the next 2 days,My love called me on the phone and was
saying sorry for living me before now and also in the next one week
after my love called me to be pleading for forgiveness,I was called for
interview in my desired company were i needed to work as the managing
director..I am so happy and overwhelmed that i have to tell this to the
entire world to contact Dr uzoya at the following email address and
get all your problem solve..No problem is too big for him to
solve..Contact him direct on: driraborspellcaster@gmail.com OR +2348151098492 and get your
problems solve like me.....
My name is Brad Sullivan.In 2013 after being happily married for 11 years, my wife suddenly and without warning told me she was divorcing me to go back to a man she had dated before we met. There were no obvious problems in our relationship. No arguments. Nothing was going on to indicate any trouble brewing. Even after she told me this, she never said there was anything wrong with us. She just said that she had come to realize she loved this other guy in a way she didn’t love me and that’s all it was about. Two days after she told me this, she moved into an apartment. The guy left his wife of 15 years that same day and moved in with her. Then i knew there was something wrong.I cried even though i wanted to be strong like a man.Everyday without her by my side was sorrowful until i came across Dr Suga of the OLUMBATEMPLE. I sent him a message via olumbatemple@gmail.com and consulted him on +2348109338488. He assured me of a miracle and true to his words my loving wife came back to my loving arms begging for forgiveness within a twinkle of an eye. The spell that was cast on her was broken. This is my testimony.
ReplyDeleteMy name is miss jennifer, am from USA, what a wonderful and a straight forward spell caster that has brought back joy and happiness into my life after I saw a post on how he helped a lady called Cassandra, i decided to contact him for help when I told this God sent man Dr Doris on how my lover left me for 2 years without calling nor testing me, When I shared this my sad experience with Dr Doris he said everything would be okay within 2 days I was like am I sure what this man is saying is real, So I decided to give a try and I what even surprised me the most at first I was also thinking he was a scam I taught he was like other spell caster who come online to add pain to peoples pain not knowing there feelings but to make money, But this great man Dr Doris is never like that his own is for good and make people to be happy with the one they love, Am just so happy, Even before the 3 days I just got a call from a man who has left me for 2 years saying he his sorry and that he wants me back to his life I was so happy, He invited me for a dinner which I meant him there and we bought talked and he said he wants to prove that he would never leave me for any other lady he engaged me and also make me had access to all his account am so happy all thanks goes to this great man Dr Doris a man who has brought back joy to my life, Please friends that needs help I would advice and swear that Dr Doris is the right man and not those fake ones who are online to make money and not to help here is Dr Doris "his private email: dorisespelltemple@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteHow to get your ex husband back
ReplyDeletekku
My name is Jessica Ruiz from Florida I have to give this miraculous
testimony, which is so unbelievable until now. I had a problem with my Ex
husband 2years ago, which lead to our break up. when he broke up with me, I was
not my self again, i felt so empty inside me, my love and financial situation
became worst, until a close friend of mine Lucy told me about a spell caster
who helped her in the same problem too his name is Dr Shiva at
hinduspelltemple@yahoo.com . I email Dr Shiva the spell caster and i told him
my problem and i did what he asked of me, to cut the long story short. Before i
knew what was happening my husband gave me a call and told me that he was
coming back to me in just 2days and was so happy to have him back to me. We
have two kids together and we are happy with ourselves. Thanks to Dr
Shiva hinduspelltemple@yahoo.com for saving my relationship and for also
saving others own too. continue your good work, If you are interested to
contact him and testify this blessings like me, the great spell caster email
address is hinduspelltemple@yahoo.com you are the best among all the spell
caster online I hope you see my testimonies and also pray for my family too
Or Check Out His Web site at http://hinduspelltemple.wix.com/hinduspelltemple
Unimaginable and unbelievable. I am Tracy Jones from the United States and i have a good news to share to the entire world. Do you need your ex husband or lover urgently? I wanna tell you that you need not to worry because i have a good news for those out there that are faced or similar to such situation because there is always a hope and a solution to all problem. There is a great spell caster called Dr Eku who can really solve your problem. Getting my lover back is what i can't imagine but when I was losing Newton, I needed help and somewhere to turn badly but my Aunty told me about this spell caster who also helped her on the internet. I thought it won't work but i just tried to give this man a chance and i ordered a LOVE SPELL. Two days later, my phone rang. Newton was his old self again and wanted to come back to me! Not only come back, the spell caster opened him up to know how much I loved and needed him. This Spell Casting isn’t brainwashing, but he opened up his eyes to know how much we have to share together. I recommend anyone who is in my old situation to try him because he will help you and make things be the way it ought to be. If you have such problem or similar to this, please contact him on his email
ReplyDeletedrekuperfectspells@yahoo.com and just visit DREKUPERFECTSPELLS.blogspot.com and see so many people testifying about his perfect work. thank you Dr Eku and may your gods ever reward you for your good deeds..
Unimaginable and unbelievable. I am Tracy Jones from the United States and i have a good news to share to the entire world. Do you need your ex husband or lover urgently? I wanna tell you that you need not to worry because i have a good news for those out there that are faced or similar to such situation because there is always a hope and a solution to all problem. There is a great spell caster called Dr Eku who can really solve your problem. Getting my lover back is what i can't imagine but when I was losing Newton, I needed help and somewhere to turn badly but my Aunty told me about this spell caster who also helped her on the internet. I thought it won't work but i just tried to give this man a chance and i ordered a LOVE SPELL. Two days later, my phone rang. Newton was his old self again and wanted to come back to me! Not only come back, the spell caster opened him up to know how much I loved and needed him. This Spell Casting isn’t brainwashing, but he opened up his eyes to know how much we have to share together. I recommend anyone who is in my old situation to try him because he will help you and make things be the way it ought to be. If you have such problem or similar to this, please contact him on his email
drekuperfectspells@yahoo.com and just visit DREKUPERFECTSPELLS.blogspot.com and see so many people testifying about his perfect work. thank you Dr Eku and may your gods ever reward you for your good deeds....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Unimaginable and unbelievable. I am Tracy Jones from the United States and i have a good news to share to the entire world. Do you need your ex husband or lover urgently? I wanna tell you that you need not to worry because i have a good news for those out there that are faced or similar to such situation because there is always a hope and a solution to all problem. There is a great spell caster called Dr Eku who can really solve your problem. Getting my lover back is what i can't imagine but when I was losing Newton, I needed help and somewhere to turn badly but my Aunty told me about this spell caster who also helped her on the internet. I thought it won't work but i just tried to give this man a chance and i ordered a LOVE SPELL. Two days later, my phone rang. Newton was his old self again and wanted to come back to me! Not only come back, the spell caster opened him up to know how much I loved and needed him. This Spell Casting isn’t brainwashing, but he opened up his eyes to know how much we have to share together. I recommend anyone who is in my old situation to try him because he will help you and make things be the way it ought to be. If you have such problem or similar to this, please contact him on his email
ReplyDeletedrekuperfectspells@yahoo.com and just visit DREKUPERFECTSPELLS.blogspot.com and see so many people testifying about his perfect work. thank you Dr Eku and may your gods ever reward you for your good deeds..
Unimaginable and unbelievable. I am Tracy Jones from the United States and i have a good news to share to the entire world. Do you need your ex husband or lover urgently? I wanna tell you that you need not to worry because i have a good news for those out there that are faced or similar to such situation because there is always a hope and a solution to all problem. There is a great spell caster called Dr Eku who can really solve your problem. Getting my lover back is what i can't imagine but when I was losing Newton, I needed help and somewhere to turn badly but my Aunty told me about this spell caster who also helped her on the internet. I thought it won't work but i just tried to give this man a chance and i ordered a LOVE SPELL. Two days later, my phone rang. Newton was his old self again and wanted to come back to me! Not only come back, the spell caster opened him up to know how much I loved and needed him. This Spell Casting isn’t brainwashing, but he opened up his eyes to know how much we have to share together. I recommend anyone who is in my old situation to try him because he will help you and make things be the way it ought to be. If you have such problem or similar to this, please contact him on his email
drekuperfectspells@yahoo.com and just visit DREKUPERFECTSPELLS.blogspot.com and see so many people testifying about his perfect work. thank you Dr Eku and may your gods ever reward you for your good deeds........................................................................................................................................................................................
Unimaginable and unbelievable. I am Mary Ken from the United States and i have a good news to share to the entire world. Do you need your ex husband or lover urgently? I wanna tell you that you need not to worry because i have a good news for those out there that are faced or similar to such situation because there is always a hope and a solution to all problem. There is a great spell caster called Dr Miracle who can really solve all your problems. Getting my lover back is what i can't imagine but when I was losing Mike, I needed help and somewhere to turn badly but my Cousin told me about this spell caster who also helped her on the internet. I thought it won't work but i just tried to give this man a chance and i ordered a LOVE SPELL. Two days later, my phone rang. Mike was his old self again and wanted to come back to me! Not only come back, This is truly miraculous and the spell caster opened him up to know how much I love and needs him. This Spell Casting isn’t brainwashing, but he opened up his eyes to know how much love we have to share together. I recommend anyone who is in my old situation to try him because he will help you and make things be the way it ought to be. If you have such problem or similar to this, please contact him on his email: homeoflightandsolution@yahoo.com thank you Dr Miracle in fact you are miraculous and may your gods ever reward you for your good deeds..
ReplyDeleteContact him today on:(udabortemple@gmail.com)
ReplyDeleteIF YOU NEED A REAL SPELL CASTER PLEASE CONTACT DR UDABOR TEMPLES HE IS A GREAT MAN He brought back my ex within 24 hrs when others spell casters failed just using this post as a testimony and to tell people that there are still Real spell caster out there . if you need his help in any way be it LOVE SPELL ...SPELL REMOVAL........GOOD LUCK......do contact him directly on E-mail: udabortemple@gmail.com Thank you all.
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ReplyDelete,........................,.
AM SANDRA FROM CANADA, THANKS TO DR ONIHA WHO HELP ME BRING MY HUSBAND BACK, MY HUSBAND LEFT ME WITH THREE KIDS, FOR ANOTHER YOUNG GIRL, FOR OVER TWO YEARS, I TRIED ALL I COULD TO SETTLED OUR DIFFRENCES, BUT IT YIELDED NO RESULT, I WAS THE ONE TAKING CARE OF THE CHILDREN ALONE, UNTIL ONE DAY, I CAME IN CONTACT WITH SOME ARTICLES ONLINE, CONTAINING HOW DR ONIHA HAS HELP SO MANY LOVERS AND FAMILY REUNION AND REUNIT AGAIN, AND I DECIDED TO CONTACT HIM, AND HE CAST HIS SPELL ON MY HUSBAND, WITHIN FIVE DAYS, MY HUSBAND RAN BACK HOME, AND WAS BEGGING ME AND THE KIDS FOR FORGIVENESS, IN CASE YOU ARE PASSING THROUGH SIMILAR PROBLEMS, AND YOU WANTS TO CONTACT DR ONIHA, YOU CAN REACH HIM VIA HIS CONTACT NUMBER, ON CALL OR WHATSAP +2347089275769 OR EMAIL DRONIHASPELL@YAHOO.COM
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