After spending countless hours dealing with this sad case, I think it is necessary to take stock and ask a simple question. What will resolve the dispute? From the many comments of the supporters of Beth and Michael - it is clear that many perhaps most commentators on both sides really have no idea of what has gone on and what is going on now. However there are a significant number that clearly have knowledge about the events and the people.
After having seen the documents involved it becomes clear that what is going on is a dispute by two sincere intelligent individuals who have totally different understanding of reality. In other words one of these parties has a serious misunderstanding of objective reality in this case. The result is not only pain for both of them, but their children are being destroyed. While I hope to publish the main documents with translation in the near future, I don't think that is going to resolve the issue. Let me explain why.
One of the most forceful and cogent opponents of Beth is a commentator name Bubbe. see comments here. Bubbe obviously has full access to
Dr. Schlesinger's inner most thoughts as well the documents in this
case. In fact
she/he sounds amazingly similar to Dr. Schlesinger himself. Nevertheless Bubbe's understanding of events is not that of Beth nor is it consistent with my understanding or that of of others familiar with the case. Thus publishing the documents probably will not resolve anything.
It is very important to note the incredible fact that through all of this - Dr. Schlesinger has not been given a psychiatric examination. Clearly either he or Beth is seriously misunderstanding reality. Beth has already been examined by a professional and declared to be free of mental illness.
I think
that the final resolution of this matter would come about if Dr.
Schlesinger agrees to be given a mental health evaluation by a neutral
psychiatrist (i.e. has no ties to him or his family or judges who are
connected to his family). If he is declared to have a serious problem in understanding the reality
in this case that would validate Beth's position. On the other hand if he gets a
clean bill of mental health - I don't think that Beth would have any
further basis for continuing her fight.
Therefore I call on both parties to reach an agreement as to what conditions the fighting will stop - which includes as a minimum as psychiatric evaluation of Dr. Schlesinger. I think in addition that it would also be important if the twins are given a full mental health and developmental evaluation. The goal of the evaluation should be to determine what is in the best interest of the twins.
If the evaluations determine that the fault lies with Beth - as Bubbe claims - then I think she shoud agree to stop fighting for her children. On the other hand if the fault lies with Dr. Schlesinger - he should give up custody and Beth should be allowed to return with them to England.
Update: I am not calling for a public posting of anyone's psychiatric reports. I am simply requesting that Michael have an evaluation as mandated by the Vienna Appeals and Supreme Courts and which was never done.
Update: I am not calling for a public posting of anyone's psychiatric reports. I am simply requesting that Michael have an evaluation as mandated by the Vienna Appeals and Supreme Courts and which was never done.
It is important to note that this proposal is my own and I have not discussed it with either Beth or Dr. Schlesinger.
This sounds reasonable to me. I agree that I don't think publishing any amount of documentation will move things forward.
ReplyDeleteMy only caveat is that the assessment of Mr Schlesinger and the twins be done by someone chosen by rabbi eidensohn to ensure neutrality. It makes no sense choosing someone from Austria. I am sure the funds could be raised to fly someone in from Israel if need be.
There is no reason in the world for Dr. Schlesinger to agree to a psychiatric evaluation. Besides that there is no reason to think he has any problem and besides that such an evaluation is non-standard and unusual in a custody dispute, Dr. Schlesinger already won full custody and Beth has exhausted all appeals through the highest court in the land and Dr. Schlesinger has won a final judgement on all appeal levels. So why would he reopen a case that has already been settled in his favor through every level of court with a final judgement rendered? That would be stupid for him to agree to.
ReplyDeleteRosh, you had no problem demanding an assessment of Beth through the courts. It is only fair in the interests of neutrality that Mr Schlesinger have the same. I am sure Mr Schlesinger will have no problem in proving he has a clean bill of health.
DeleteWhy would he be so scared of it? Unless.......
He has no reason to. He won in court on all levels through the highest court in the country and he has no reason or interest to agree to such an evaluation.
DeleteWrong, Rosh, about there being no reason for Dr Schlesinger to agree to a psychiatric evaluation! The appeal court ordered this and it was NEVER CARRIED OUT!
DeleteAnd please don't forget, Rosh, that courts can make mistakes! The former Austrian Home Secretary Strasser was given a rerun of his recent court case after being accused of attempting to bribe some journalists. The trial had to be repeated because a mistake was made by the court (and he was convicted again).
Delete"That would be stupid" Seriously? Is that your expert opinion as a psych expert? If one party is asked and expected to take an evaluation, it is only fair that the other party is asked to do the same.
DeleteThe "win" in court comes with great questions and the validity is being debated.
Finally, if there is no question about the stability of Schlesinger, what is to be lost by having an independent evaluation?
You should realize that the custody fight is over, as the High Court gave FULL CUSTODY to the FATHER. Tough luck for Beth and you!
ReplyDeleteAn assessment is independent of the court case. What are you so scared of? Have it done and then everyone will leave you alone.
DeletePurim, and you should realise that the custody fight is not over, as the High Court gave FULL CORRUPTED CUSTODY to the Father. Tough luck for Schlesinger and his supporters
DeleteNo, Purim, a custody dispute is NEVER over as long as the children concerned are suffering. In this case it is more than obvious that they are. They are not being talked to all day long like other small kids are and their sad little faces show anyone with a heart how desperate they are to be with their mother. And why is the self-harming that the kindergarten noticed hardly mentioned? That's one of the worst signs of trauma that a young child could have. This custody case HAS TO BE RUN AGAIN - and it will be. There are enough very obvious crimes that have been committed by the main actors in this case. These would definitely justify a re-run. The father and his pal from ESRA, Dr Földes, both lied to the police doctor, witnesses were not heard/cross-examined, documents suppressed, the father has disobeyed court orders re visits by the mother on countless occasions, and he has also broken the law by failing to provide the mother with information about the boys. If he doesn't know where to find the law on this, I can provide him with the relevant website.
DeleteRabbi Eidensohn. As psychologist and a Rabbi you have tremendous insight. I agee with what you say. Dr. Schlesinger should show everyone
ReplyDeletethat he is truly well and free of any psychological disorder by having an
assessment, as Beth has done. The
boys should also have an assessment
This will go a long way to show that
the whole process is just and fair and
in the best interest of the children.
There is no reason why Dr Schlesinger
should object unless he has
something to hide.
I'm sure even Avi Noffers would agree with this proposal. Avi?
ReplyDeleteSounds reasonable although I can't see nor imagine why Dr. Schlesinger would agree to this.
DeleteOh! didn't realise that this had been requested by the courts. If so, then of course it should be done.
DeleteWhilst Mr Schlesinger may have 'won' in the Austrian courts, most people are unconvinced that the process was in any way fair, which has resulted in an international public outcry. If he wants to silence his critics, the suggestion above sounds like the best way to do so.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise, he is deluded in thinking the courts have given him any justification for a technically legal kidnap, which is basically what it is.
Very frequently losers in court all over the world think it is unfair. But final court judgements are final otherwise court battles would be forever and never ending. This case is over as far as the courts are concerned and the judgment final. Everyone has to live with the judgement as there is no further judicial recourse.
Deleteyou obviously are not a rosh yeshiva since you are not concerned with truth or justice but simply who wins.
DeleteThe case is obviously not over or you would not be reading this material and responding to it.
The courts are the arbiters of justice and truth and they have already ruled. From the lower court to the appeals court to the Supreme Court.
DeleteJust to clarify, all the court rulings so far have been Austrian court rulings. It is obviously not a correct assumption to say they are arbiters of justice as they have demonstrated a clear incompetence in this case.
DeleteRosh yeshiva, the courts will rule again - you can bet your life.
DeleteIf Beth has had assessments and been given a clear Bill of Health, why should this not apply for Michael?
ReplyDeleteAs Brian said, Michael should agree to an aassessment. If he doesn't, it will show that he most certainly and without any doubt, has something to hide!
Pls post beths bill of health online
ReplyDeleteThis has not been disputed, I think we need to see a neutral report on Michael before we can continue. Please don't confuse the issue.
DeleteMichael you've seen it! It is now time for you boy!
ReplyDeleteCOME ON MICHAEL, COME CLEAN, IF YOU HAVE NO MENTAL ILLNESS TO HIDE, GET THAT ASSESSMENT DONE, ALSO LETS JUST SEE HOW WELL THE CHILDREN ARE DEVELOPING UNDER THE CARE OF YOU AND THE PHILIPINO WOMEN. YOU WON IN A CORRUPT COURT, BUT YOU HAVE LOST IN THE EYES OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE WELFARE OF SAMMY, BENJI AND BETH.
ReplyDeleteQuestions, when Michael agrees to the above proposal, we can then demand to see the reports on Beth. Well? Is he going to do the right thing?
ReplyDelete@thing you are missing the point. I am not calling for a public posting of anyone's psychiatric reports. I am simply requesting that Michael have an evaluation as mandated by the Vienna Appeals and Supreme Courts and which was never done.
Delete"What will resolve the dispute? "
ReplyDeleteFrom his perspective, i think the "dispute" is resolved. So this whole proposal does not get off the ground.
He has what he wants and he has all the cards. Sure, there are still theoretical arguments about whether the resolution is just/correct, but unless or until those arguments have any practical consequences, it is not really rational for him to give up anything in order to make a bunch of powerless-but-angry people happy. "Practical consequences," btw, don't need to be as far-reaching as a changed court decision - community pressure could matter to him too, but so far it seems that is not happening either.
em,
Delete"From his perspective, i think the 'dispute' is resolved. So this whole proposal does not get off the ground."
If that is indeed the case, why are you, his sister and he himself responding. I don't presume you guys are following some blog that some Eskimos may be writing. Certainly, you guys aren't participating in those blogs. And most certainly, you guys aren't investing energy in attacking those Eskimos.
But you come here. Micheal's sister comes here with all her different monikers.
Micheal himself has come here - under a moniker. What does that say about you guys? Why are you guys interested?
True chosid - you have no idea who is posting . for all we know you might be Beth.
DeleteThey are interested True Chosid because they are sick human beings who are using 2 little boys as pawns. They are not worthy of being members of the Vienna Jewish community as they have only brought it into disrepute. The rabbis who allow 'Bubbe' et al to lead prayers are equally guilty.
ReplyDelete