Thursday, February 25, 2016

Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky at Project Inspire Feb 27


  1. Pardon my ignorance, what is a "Pairing Zone"?

  2. Advertising / sponsorship gimmick.

    Fundraising is always gimmicks.

    Here, there's an additional motivation: 'kashering' RSK. Ensuring a good crowd, a winner of the RSK primary election.

  3. Sounds like a singles event.

  4. It will take years till the real facts percolate down to the masses don't expected to happen anytime soon but once it happens it will be permanent . Rabbi Goren too enjoyed the men's popularity after he gave his Heter it took years before his own base of support the Mizrahi turned against them realizing the whole world considered him a complete total joke .

  5. With the rabbi's הכשר stamp of approval for the mingling of the sexes?
    Does the "Gourmet Tasting" which goes together with the "Pairing Zone" include tasting the milk before buying the cow?

  6. It is when tasting and eating foods pairing it up with selections of wine, which goes best with which. Wine comes in different 'shapes and forms': Dry, Semi-Dry, Wet, Sweet, Sour, Fizz - Champagne, Smooth, Tannin and everything in between. Has nothing to do with shiduchim and zivugim.

  7. Married singles, too.

  8. OK. Thanks for the edification. So I learned something new today. I wasn't aware that there was a whole "Shulchan Aruch" how to best fulfill תאות אכילה.

    I guess that מסכת תענית isn't the most popular מסכת these days...

  9. My dear friend, know the rashi Antoninus veRebi lo posku meal shulchonom lo tznon velo chazeres, lo bimos hachama velo bimos hagshamim. yayin haoleh al shulchan mlochim - The seuda starts with metuvalim and wine that opens up the kishkes to whet the appetite. Seudas Shlomo besha'ato - veachaltem lasova - velo lerazon - mishivchei Eretz Yisrael. Moshe Rabenu taught the Yidden after yetzias mitzrayim hilchos achila. Im ein kemach ein torah velav mila zutresa hi. BTW, A Sommelier is a trade skill.

  10. Wow. I'm learning so many new things today!

    We can now suggest a new פשט in the שר המשקים. Instead of translating it as "Master of Drink", we can now translate it as "The Royal Sommelier".

    I suspect that משה רבינו wasn't giving כלל ישראל tips in how to prepare epicurean delights. He was giving them pointers in healthful eating.

    Once you mention the צנון וחזרת of רבינו הקדוש, it would be appropriate to also mention the Gemara in Maseches Kesubos (104a), relating to Rebbe's passing:
    בשעת פטירתו של רבי זקף עשר אצבעותיו כלפי מעלה, אמר: רבונו של עולם! גלוי
    וידוע לפניך שיגעתי בעשר אצבעותי בתורה ולא נהניתי אפילו באצבע קטנה.
    Tosfos (ad loc.) cites a Midrash:
    לא נהניתי אפילו באצבע
    קטנה. דאמרינן במדרש עד שאדם מתפלל שיכנס תורה לתוך גופו
    יתפלל שלא יכנסו מעדנים לתוך גופו
    ומייתי הא עובדא דרבי:

    איי איי איי. Where do we get such Yidden today?

  11. There are many ways in avodas haShem. Hilchos achila, you are right, etiquette e.g. in addidition You eat sitting in one place, prepare the food in front of you in a plate, not out of the great Pot bli midah like a ra'avson etc. that can bring the person to be a zoloel vesoveh C.V. Since you are a good culinary talmid, sofei lei ketura: For people that have been zoche l'beis shulchanot or of means they have a Cooking Chef, Pastry Chef, Sommelier etc. The word Kfeila originates from Chef. You have a Sar haTabochim, Sar Haofim, Sar haMashkim, yoitser meshorsov, va'asher meshorsov with kohen hedyot hats and lol kohen godol hats. The bigger the hat, the bigger the belly. You than also have food tasters, such as Bigson voSeresh, haTarshoso tasting the wine for Nebuchadnetsar with heter meah Rabonim and tasters of different kinds. We then have Sar haTorah e.g. RASHKEBEHAG we are desparately in need of their advice. Veze kol hatorah kula al regel achas, veidach zil ugmor. Kol tuv

    for those claiming vayhi kemishlosh chadoshim, the same solution that bought off the HETER, can buy of and kasher mamzeirim as in masechet Kidushin Kesef metaher mamzerim.

  12. Just call 1-800-MAMZERS. If the line is busy, you can try DIAL-A-HETER.

  13. "Just call 1-800-MAMZERS. If the line is busy, you can try calling DIAL-A-HETER"

    It's not a joking matter by now! Mamzerus is a very serious negative label. Yeah, Purim is coming and all of the Badchan in you wants to jump out, but kindly try to restrain yourself especially when we are waiting to hear what R Dovid Feinstein's Bais Din will finally Pasken.

    The mood now is much more serious than you make it out to be. Try to control that Yeshivisha Leitzonus feature that is so off-putting and that Yeshiva guys think is so "smart" but it makes them seem like barbarians to the outside world.

    Even when the papers were bringing down Nixon they remained serious journalists and refrained from jokes that they left for the late night comedians and cartoonists which you are not!

  14. Knock it off, I don;t like them either, but the jokes are not working right now, the Velt is more nervous than this silliness.

    Let the Aish HaTorah dudes have a nice party, they don't play by the rules books in any case, so there is nothing new here.

    For now R Shmuel Kaminetsky is still the go-to-Aguda-Gadol for all the out-of-towners and for all the major Litvish-type Kiruv organizations in America.

    So nothing new going on here, just like R Shmuel Kaminetsky was welcomed and attended the Torah Umesorah Jewish Days Schools conference in FLORIDA, and the AJOP convention in BALTIMORE, he is now going to attend a similar type of the AMERICAN Aish HaTorah sponsored and run "Inspire" event with the cool Kiruv guys.

    Nothing new here at all. They are not interested in all the Kano'us they are pro-feminist in any case and would much rather go with ORA than with R Dovid Eidensohn's Rav Avigdor Miller Hashkofa.

  15. Lshem haemes so you should know my critiques of you are lishma.
    I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.


  16. Wow. A comment from ehud without Without flowery language.

  17. Thank you for your advice. If your memory serves you well, you know that I've been here for a long time, commenting on this very serious issue. This is not a joke! My comments are in the spirit of black humor, or as they say in Yiddish א ביטערע געלעכטר.

    You may be waiting for R' David Feinstein. That's fine for you. B"H I can learn and pasken on my own, and אין לדיין אלא מה שעיניו רואות.

    After the broad consensus of גדולי הוראה have spoken their פסק, it really doesn't matter anymore what RDF says on the subject. He isn't the בעל הבית on when his father's controversial Heter is or is not to be applied.

    Unfortunately, I consider it case closed. Someone might seriously be needing to call 1-800-MAMZERS.

  18. We are in agreement in any case. Right off the bat, when I heard what R Shmuel Kaminetsky got up to the manufacture this Hetter, I said he made a BIG MISTAKE. But that is from my point of view, and unlike you I do not claim to be a "poisek" or "lamden" since if was either of those two things I would definitely NOT be blogging, that's for sure! A true Poisek does not waste his time trying to "prove" how genuine he is on any Blog, and a true Lamden sits and learns like a true Mentsch and also does not waste his time writing on Blogs, he has better things to do mamash, like umm Lernen Toirah Noch Un Noch!

    And no, I am not "waiting" for R Dovid Feinstein or anyone else. I am already very satisfied with what R Feivel Cohen SHLIT"A has Paskened and that's that as far as I am concerned.

    But by the same token, I know that I am not the only person in this world or that my own Hashkofas can be forced on the world, (a) because I do not believe in any forms of "Jihad" or "holy wars" against "infidels" etc, and (b) because there are lots of different fish in the sea and I know the reality of liberals, out-of-towners, MOs, and EVEN Roshei Yeshiva and Rebbes who are pragmatists and have other ways of looking at things.

    R Shmuel Kaminetsly is not the only one to play these kind of Shtik, because most of the other Gedolim and Rebbes do exactly the same when it suits them in their own interests and arenas.

    So I cut them all some slack because we are not running the world.

    Some things you just have to leave for the Eibishter to settle because as you see no matter how hard you fight for the Emmes, until the coming of the true Mashiach, unfortunately Shekker still has a hold on this world and we just have to live with that. What can you do.

  19. recognizing that gedolim are human - does not justify ignoring their mistakes. The Torah is full of consequences for humans who make mistakes.

    Neither Rav Feivel Cohen or Rav Moshe Sternbuch - who you claim has paskened for you in this issue - has concluded like you that we just to accept what has happened and get on with our lives.

    Bottom line : Your cynical/humanistic view of the situation is out of synch with the large number of poskim who have written opinions on this matter and is in synch with Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky and Rav Nota Greenblatt who desparately are hoping that this incident be forgotten. Your view that we should leave wrong doing to G-d is not the accepted view as we seen in the case of the son of Rav Shimon Bar Yochai.

  20. Thanks for telling me what I think, I almost forgot! Wow, free therapy!

    One thing you miss is the huge difference between the way machlokes is handled in the USA versus Israel. In Israel it is cut-throat, while in the USA there is a different live-and-let-live attitude and you and your brother keep butting your heads into it time and again and just don't get it, that people are not going to create a religious war in the USA over this issue.

    In the USA the only ones with that kind of warlike approach are Satmar and R Aron Schechter, but the rest of the Litvis Velt does not react like R Shternbuch would like them to react because he too has no real idea of how machlokes is carried out and managed in the USA he is much more q Brisker and fighter, while in America people do not fight themselves to the death in the Torah or Jewish worlds! And that is what you are bumping into and while your brother R David Eidensohn is a kanoi but it's not an American trademark so he going nowhere also.

    And please DO NOT conflate R Feivel Coihen with Rb Moishe Shternbuch because nowhere at at no point has R Feivel said to go and do what R Shternbuch has said. While R Shternbuch wants people to fight day and night and kill each other, if you will see it is NOT what R Feivel Cohen said, or says or is doing, he has made his decisions stated his Pesak and now we move on, you cannot kill and destroy all the Litvish Roshei Yeshiva, and Poskim who are not going to change no matter how much you want them too, they are still too strong in the USA.

    Take it or leave it, and thanks again for the free therapy, and the bananas!

  21. We have seen in our days, within the last two years in fact, what happens when we wait for Hashem to do what HE has charged us to do.
    Many people, rabbis, etc. knew Barry Freundel was unfit to be a leading rabbi. But they kept silent and told those of us who did speak to shut up! So what happened? Hashem was patient but finally made his cheshbon and showed it to all of us and the world.
    Had the Rabbinical Council of America, the Georgetown Synagogue, the Vaad of Washington or his Rosh Yeshiva dealt with the pervert rabbi as they should have years ago when it was apparent he was an apikorus (he publicly said things like "there is no prohibition on intermarriage, the Torah only prohibits intermarrying with the 7 nations of Canaan") the Chillul Hashem would have been mitigated.

  22. I note, that a Torah Jew has other mitzvos to do besides learning Torah נאך או נאך.

    One of these mitzvos is to protest when people go against the Torah.

    In these days, one of the most effective manners of protesting is via the internet.

  23. אמר אביי ... רבים ישתו לא לימא (כתובות ח:)

  24. Jog your memory. Was there ever a scandal (or scandals) for which the US rabbonim went to war? Then think if this scandal is similar to that (or them).

  25. No ben Torah or Rov or even a Dayan will deny that Reb Moshe Shternbuch is a Godol baTorah, a Gaon and a Talmid Chochom, however can you please name the beis din that Reb Moshe has sat on which gave him the practical experience in gittin that is necessary in order to pasken in gittin at all and this case in particular.

  26. the issue is not gittin but a heter not to use gittin. The burden of proof is on the one who claims that a get is not needed. What expertise to you need to recognize that this case based on false facts - which ieven if true - do not compare to what Rav Moshe Feinstein writes in the Igros?

    Any 13 year old yeshiva student can see that this heter is worthless

  27. No, I do hear you, but I think you are off base with your campaign, and I know it is 100% Lesheim Shomayim which is why I support you, but as in any war there are times when you need to re-assess your goals and strategies as well as tactics.

    I once heard a very sharp and good Vort from the late R David Hollander ZT"L who was the main fighter against the inroads and concessions to the Reform and Conservatives for well over 50 years, from the 1950s til he passed away.

    I once asked him after one of his serious campaigns that was a very controversial, he came out with a ruling from the Agudas Harabanim that "Reform and Conservative are NO Judaism" and all the ultra-cool Kiruv folks like Aish HaTorah especially criticized him, but he was not worried.

    I asked him how he could remain so calm through it all and he said to me; "You think this about winning? It's not about winning, that you have leave for HKB"H" and I think there is a good lesson their for all of us who oppose the Hetter.

    You have fought the good fight and made your point loud and clear, but as you can see the forces of liberalism and moderation are too strong in America and they can fight back. Fighting R Shmuel Kaminetsky and his allies is like trying to fight and "defeat" the Reform and Conservatives, it ain't gonna happen because they are still too strong. Some things must just be left for HKB"H to carry out.

  28. You seem to be saying - I am bored with the topic - even though it is a just cause

    I am not involved in this issue for the excitement or entertainment value

  29. RaP is comparing apples with oranges. Rabbi Hollander zt"l was fighting two enormous, powerful entrenched movements. Rabbi Eidensohn is fighting to correct a particular case, in which a married women was allowed to marry without a get, albeit a case of grave consequence. Rabbi Hollander understood his battlefield and acted accordingly. Rabbi Eidensohn understands his goal and is pursuing a winning strategy to achieve that goal.

  30. Um, we must be living in alternate realities.

    Both R Eidensohn (R Dovid and R Danile) have decided to take on the whole Aguda world in America. They have decided to fight a pitched take-no-prisoners, scorched-earth, fight-to-the-death Armagedon, Milchemes Mitzva of Gog Umagog to be Mekayem nothing less than Mechias Amalek and to bring us to the Acaharis Hayomim, by fighting to the last man and last drop of blood to wipe R Shmuel Kaminetsky, R Dovid Feinstein, R Yaakov Perlow, and the entire Agudas Yisroel of America from the face of the earth, all because of the sholom bayis problems that am immature young couple dragged in all the rabbanim to fight with each other. This is a real Maaseh Satan if ever there was one!

    Now you want to say that just because the Eidensohn brothers decided that they hate the Kaminetskys and the Feinsteins and all the rest of the Aguda people they don't like, that somehow or other they are going to succeed, no matter how right they are in principle, to achieve their goals, and they think because they have R Aron Schechter on board that they are right? R Aron Schechter does NOT speak or represent Agudas Yisroel in any way. He is tolerated over there because he is a Pikeach and because he is backed up by Fruchthandler's financial muscle, but he has been in pitched battles with the Kaminetsky and Feinstein families for decades and would love nothing more than to see them brought down and his power base set up. But we have news for R Aron Schechter, it is NOT going to happen! He is just going to learn the hard way that the world, meaning the American and ISRAELI Aguda world has zero tolerance for his cynical ploys and machinations, so far R Shteinman is the RASHKEBEHAG and he has NOT criticized the Hetter and that means he supports it. We do not have to like it, but them's the facts!

    R Moshe Shternbuch is a Tzadik and a principled person, but he cannot dictate to the American Aguda world what they should do all the way from his seat at the BADATZ in far off Meah Shearim. He is out of his domain, and even perhaps out of his depth at this point, and he is NOT the Morah De'Asra for America, that is the job of the Aga in America, take it or leave it.

  31. RAP,

    Let me quote you talking about me and my brother:
    "Both R Eidensohn (R Dovid and R Danile) have decided to take on the whole Aguda world in America. They have decided to fight a pitched take-no-prisoners, scorched-earth, fight-to-the-death Armagedon, Milchemes Mitzva of Gog Umagog to be Mekayem nothing less than Mechias Amalek and to bring us to the Acaharis Hayomim, by fighting to the last man and last drop of blood to wipe R Shmuel Kaminetsky, R Dovid Feinstein, R Yaakov Perlow, and the entire Agudas Yisroel of America from the face of the earth, all because of the sholom bayis problems that am immature young couple dragged in all the rabbanim to fight with each other. This is a real Maaseh Satan if ever there was one!"
    Allow me to interrupt my "fighting to the last drop of blood to wipe R Shmuel Kaminetsky, R Dovid Feinstein, etc.from the face of the earth." If you read my comments on Reb Dovid you would find just the opposite, that although I doubt that he can succeed in satisfying some people with his pesak, his kavono is leshaim shomyim, because unless Rabbi Greenblatt and Kaminetsky openly admit that the heter is wrong, it is possible that many women will rely on them and things will never end. For that I respect Reb Dovid, although he must be very brave to do what he is doing.
    And yes, I don't think that the Agudah is Daas Torah. And I don't think that their Moetses can force me to accept their ridiculous inventions. But to make me sound like a bloodthirsty monster is wrong. You can believe it or not, but in the past year when I really pasted the Kaminetskies, I had gedolei hador call me up and congratulate me for doing what nobody else would do.
    When you feel somebody is doing something that is not done, but the Eidensohns do it, it doesn't mean that the EIdensohns are bloody murderers. I learned by Reb Aharon Kotler and major talmidim of Reb Baruch Ber. If they were alive today, well, if they were alive today this would never have happened. It can only take place in a generation like this.


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