Monday, June 17, 2024

Haredi leader on army draft: ‘You don’t want us and you don’t need us’

/Citing a tweet by former politician Haim Ramon, Goldknopf claimed that “four thousand Haredim asked to enlist since the beginning of the year — though that’s not good to hear — but you ruled out 3,300 of them. You don’t want us and you don’t need us. Why do you abuse us?” (Ramon in his tweet cited data from the Knesset, though he later acknowledged that some individuals had challenged the data as problematic.)


  1. The recruitment unit have to evaluate the fitness of their recruits for the army. So R Goldknopft is showing his lack of understanding of worldly matters

    1. If the majority of Charidim will fail the basic requirements so why draft them?

    2. 1) They will find other jobs for them. Someone has to peel the potatoes so the real defenders can eat
      2) Sad that a community takes pride in being too unhealthy to pass basic fitness tests.

    3. Is the anti-draft sentament a holdover from Europe/"the Shetetle". I cant blame the secular (other than for being secular) for wanting the Chareidim to be equal. Even as a Chareidi it is debatable if we are doing the right thing Halachikally.

    4. A chunk of it is part of the self-imposed "We're living just like we did in Europe" with the corollary being "Remember the Czar used to draft our boys to destroy their Jewishness!"

    5. The issue of the draft in Israel is not going to be solved with simplistic and false analogies

    6. Please elaborate. Is it actually Halachicly motivated as in "we hold that anyone who identifies as a Yeshiva student should not (or cannot) be drafted"? Or is it Hashkafic, "we believe that going to the army will expose our population to an unreasonable amount of bad influence" [does this apply to working as well?]? Or is this just a political power play to ensure our population is not taken advantage of?

    7. It's a bit of a bunch of a few things.
      Some say that since the religious yishuv predates the state and didn't actually want to be part of it, they shouldn't have to help fight for it.
      Some say that the Chazon Ish said that "learn, don't earn" was for everybody for all time.
      Some say that the point of the army is to assimilate the religious and make them good Labour socialists (and in the early years of the State, they weren't wrong)
      And some are just lazy but they know admitting it out loud doesn't look good

    8. That's the people, what about the Rabanim. What do the leaders of Degel Machaneh HaTorah actually believe?

    9. If the majority will fail the test, then what do you have to worry about? Probably they are the best learners anyway


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