Monday, November 30, 2015

Tamar Epstein Heter: New letter from Hisachdus HaRabbonim


  1. This says a bit more about who the CRC are:

    It is a virtually unknown group, like R' Gestetner, and the other Satmar outfit.
    We need some big names please.

  2. The CRC/Hisachdus is extremely well known and has been around for over 65 years. It is an agglomeration of Rabbonim from most Chasiduses (especially the larger ones) in the United States and Canada. It is, by far, the largest group of Chasdic rabbonim. And in America, Chasidim today are a majority of the Chareidi population of the United States. And Chareidim constitute 71% of all Orthodox Jews in the U.S. according to the Pew Research study from about two years ago.

  3. I understand that you're in the UK. But across the pond, in NYC, the Hisachdus runs a well known beis din. In fact when R' Shlomo Carlebach of Chaim Berlin sought to litigate his case in beis din, his choice was the Hisachdus. See here:
    I'm sure that our indefatigable resident "RaP"er will be able to elaborate in greater detail about this.

  4. Let's not overdo it. The vast majority of Chasidim do not value letters from Itzu Glick.

  5. Thanks for the "honorable mention".

    But at this point let's not get lost, keeping your eye on the ball here, that as long as Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky's 10 colleagues on the American Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah do not come out to a man to explicitly in writing oppose his involvement with Heter for Tamar then the Kaminetskys can sleep well at night, no one cares what Bloggers say or do, even if they post letters from the most ultra-Charedi BADATZ or Hisachdus, it is just the "far right" such as Satmar, the Eidah HaChareidis and even Neturei Karta talking and no one in the Aguda world pays any serious attention to any of them because they are regarded as the "lunatic fringe" -- these are not my personal views, I have agreed that getting and giving Tamar her Heter was a huge mistake, but most people that the Kaminetskys deal with look to the official Aguda line, especially from its Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah who are regarded as the final Daas Torah for them.

    So hang in there, it ain't over til it's over!

  6. The vast majority of Chasidishe rabbonim, poskim and gedolim do care about and take notice of the positions of the CRC.

  7. Itzu Glick didn't sign in his own name. He signed in the name of the beis din, of which he is the manager and recording secretary.

  8. True but Rabbi Feldman came out against it and some of the others might clams negius and stay away. Also when the protests are so big and getting bigger then a lack of support to RSK is somewhat a protest against him.
    Btw by Torah Umesora convention RSK spoke against vaccines and Rabbi Feldman got up right afterwards and said that in spite of RSK most doctors and rosh yeshivas say u should vaccinate and this is not really the place to debate this.

  9. The vast majority of Chasidishe rabbonim, poskim and gedolim do care about and take notice of the positions of the Hisachdus HaRabbonim.

    No, not Itzu Glick's letters. He is considered a political and financial operative. The Beis Din proclamation with their own signatures is one thing. Letters from Glick are not respected by Chasidim. How about doing a Shmekach Taus Heter test in reverse? Approach any 10 random Chasidim and ask them what a letter from Itzu Glick means to them.

  10. Itzu Glick didn't sign in his own name. He signed in the name of the beis din, of which he is the manager and recording secretary.

    Therefore? His signature is not, in any way, synonymous to their leading Dayonim's signatures.

    As a private letter to the Badatz, it has value. As a public letter, among the Chassidim it does not have much value.

  11. As far as i know, R' Carlebach went to RMF, who gave his famous letter, which RaP uses as a calling card.

    I don't know any of the CRC people or any of the names.

    But it is still a fringe group. Also, the problem is in the litvishe world, ie the Rabbis involved are misnagdishe, and the Tamar and husbands are apparently also misnagdic hareidim. they are not MO, and not Hassidim. Hassidim will of course enjoy a bash at misnagdim when they get the opportunity. But from israel, so far, only Rav Shternbuch has come forward (yes, he is a great descendant of the Gra).
    I am talking about the Degel haTorah world which was once dominated by Rav Shach and Rav Elyashiv. So we need big names,

    Rav Kanievsky shlita
    Rav Shteinman shlita
    Rav Auerbach shlita
    Rav Karelitz shlita

    Until we something like this, it is still a very local and small time controversy.

  12. Eddie, I didn't say that RSK didn't also go to R' Moshe Feinstein. But you obviously didn't bother to look up the link that I posted, where there are copies of the summonses from the Hisachdus. (I'll let RaP fill us in on the timeline, which one was first)

    You wonder why Rabbis Kanievsky, Shteinman, Auerbach, and Karelitz have not voiced their opinion. I venture to say, that since this is a halachic matter, the appropriate people to do so are בעלי הלכה, whose primary area of interest is הלכה למעשה, especially in areas of אבן העזר. Of the above list, only Rav Nissim Karelitz would fit the bill. However he hasn't been well for some time, and I don't see anything forthcoming from him in the near future.

  13. R' Carlebach went to the CRC beis din. Because the CRC beis din is highly recognized and respected even outside the chasidic community.

  14. Are they MO? sorry, I assumed they were Hareidi , becasue of their relationship to RSK.
    Yes, I said Rav Shternbuch is Litvak in the best possible way! But the Eda Litvaks are not in the same part of teh mainstream misnagdim, remember Brisk / Satmar were not in agreement even with the Chazon ish, or Rav Shach.
    I don't know if Eda Misnagdim are more misnagdissher than mainstream, since they now share a common platform with Chassidim, whereas the Degel world do not.

  15. Of course they are Baalei halacha, aren't Rav Kanievsky and Rav Auerbach poskim ? In any case, the same could be (and was) said about Rav Shach, but he always took a huge position on such matters.
    Also, if we follow your argument, it would point to the major Litvish posek, and this leads uncomfortably towards Rav Kamenetsky!

  16. The Brisker Rov and the Satmar Rebbe were very close to and often together with (pictures exist) Rav Shach and the CI.

    And Degel also shares a platform with the Chasidim in the UTJ alliance between Degel and Agudas Yisroel.

  17. The Brisker Rov yes, but afterwards in the Heter meah rabbonim case, they went against Rav Shach.
    Satmar Rebbe was close to the CI? The same CI who told his followers to vote in the Israeli elections? RAK was shocked when the Satmar R went agains the CI!


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