1) Why is it important for Ami magazine to first tell us about the supposed troubled past of an individual, before it ever mentions the supposed topic at hand - namely, the supposed forgery?
2) Why is 70% of Ami's note about a the supposed wrongdoings an unnamed individual?
3) It would seem that Ami magazine is really seeking to wage war with an unnamed individual, but it does not have the integrity to admit it, and actually declare war. Instead, they hide behind "troubled past" and "the reputation of the revered..."
And why has this not been signed? Doesn't seem to be authentic. the rule of thumb always is; Anything nameless is a pashkevil, with a name it's a statement.
Is Ora truly a non-existent entity? Didn't Ami magazine just recently have a full write up on Ora, glorifying their multiple misdeeds?
Just because now you are ashamed and embarrassed to be depicted as belonging in the ORA camp given the current abominable circumstances (for which ORA, as well as those who praise and support them, must bear partial responsibility), does that relegate them from your front cover to non-existent????
Gimme a break! Your self centredness is really shameful!
Rabbi Eidenson, why do you publish this baal gaava's drivel????
Ami's protest was published because the original letter was clearly a forgery. This is not the Soviet Union - you can't make up documents to prove that you views of certain people and organizations are true.
this is not a dispute - it is a response to a forged letter claiming a formal alliance that doesn't exist. Everyone agrees the original letter is a forgery
Put all the forgeries aside, why dosent the Ami tell us there opinion with regard to the Tamar Epstein case!!!!!! Why are they quite on this on this one, Reb Yitschok we wanto hear your דעת תורה Maybe feature an interview with rabbi greenstein from Memphis
Obviously the original document was a parody, a sad yet comical one indeed. The Ami people did not catch on. Ami's notice states that it does not "have any knowledge of the matter at issue", however, the Public Notice lauds the Rosh Yeshiva in Philadelphia. One can assume that as journalists, at this point Ami does have information regarding this gevalt chilul Hashem. I suggest that Rabbi Eidensohn contact R' Frankfurter regarding the inyun in general. Ami is less pandering to the masses than other 'frum' publications and could even help.
**THE FOLLOWING IS A FORGED LETTER ABOUT AMI MAGAZINE AND ORA WHICH ATTEMPTS TO DISCREDIT BOTH ORGANIZATIONS**
Joint Statement! As the primary organizations in the Kehillah Hacharedit dedicated to the rights of Orthodox Jewish women in general, and specifically to those in quest of receiving a Get from recalcitrant husbands, we proudly unite to express tremendous gratitude to Hashem and his emissaries, the venerable Roshei Yeshivah of the great Philadelphia Yeshivah, Rabbis Shmuel and Shalom Kamenetzky and Rav Nota Greenblatt of Memphis, Tennessee for having granted Tamar Epstein a release from the bondage of a failed and abusive marriage, and enabled and oversaw her remarriage to Mr. Adam Fleischer, despite the resistance of her ex-husband to grant her a Get. They courageously chose to disregard the repeated proclamations of the Baltimore Bais Din, under whose jurisdiction these divorce proceedings were by virtue of both husband and wife signing binding arbitration by them, maintaining that Tamar remains an אשת איש until a Get is given. The tremendous Kiddush Hashem generated by the bold, courageous stand of these Rabbis shows the world that our Holy Torah and its values are in no way inferior ח"ו to that of any other religion, and even in a case where a husband wields disproportionate power and withholds a Get from his shackled wife, the Torah and its Rabbis are equal to the challenge and will find the means to permit the wife to remarry even without receiving a Get from her husband. To all those naysayers in the Rabbinic world who are deploring the act of annulment of a marriage as a means to permit a woman to remarry even in the absence of a Get, we respond, is it possible that the Jewish people, the light unto the nations of the world, can be so cruel and so recessive as to chain a woman into a dead marriage with no means of escape? Is there any greater transgression of the Mitzva of ואהבת לרעך כמוך ? Up until today, only the Open Orthodox movement, assisted in part by the Modern Orthodox movement, have had the bravery and courage to break from some of the darkness of past generations and redevelop the fundamental beliefs of our Religion, in tandem with today’s modernized world. Now, however, with the Yeshivish, Orthodox world led by the great Roshei Yeshiva of Philadelphia joining the fray and uniting all the different brands of Orthodoxy under one umbrella, a סוכת שלם , we will usher in a new dawn that will be the precursor of our long anticipated national dream, the coming of Moshiach .במהרה בימינו Signed on this 30th day of Tishrei 5776, October 13th 2015, Rabbi Avi Tzion Rabbi Yitzchok Frankfurter Rabbi Jeremy Stern Executive Director Editor in Chief Chairman Orthodox Jewish Ami Magazine ORA Union of Feminists
Alert: Larry Kulak (may use other aliases) currently in Lakewood-consider to be extremely dangerous http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1405003.html
Ami is well aware of this as a SATIRE, but it is more convenient to play mesiach lefi tumo and wage war to discredit these allegations against them all, as if it is a FORGERY. How convenient.
This is no less of a SATIRE than the other one asking to pray for his refuas hanefesh, although in a more formal format. Looks like to be from the same author as well, and on the same blog.
Perhaps the reference is to Frankfurter himself. Everything fits perfectly.
"An individual with a troubled past" I think fighting with siblings, going to Din Torah with them, fighting with employers, being thrown out from one job after another sounds right.
"History of deceit and forgery" Presenting yourself as Reb Dovid Soloveichik's mouthpiece in America after having learnt there for half a year, and then using that cover to promulgate views that even the other Soloveichik family (JB) would be embarrassed of; Claim to be talking in the name of different Chasidishe Rebbes who deny having anything to do with you; Misquoting statements to your advantage; Distorting facts; Every edition of Ami has multiple examples!
WHAT A PERFECT FIT!!! AMI are denying responsibility under threat from Reb Shmuel, then cleverly attributing it to none other than their own editor!!
I believe that the Ami is reffering to an individual of sefardi heritage who resides on the outskirts of Lakewood, this person told me that be was involved with this letter with the blessing of someone purporting to be rabbi frankfuter, he realizes now that he mislead
This new development seem to turn things around. Until now RSK was under scrutiny but not anymore. Now he became the victim of forgery. Is this possible that this was done on purpose to divert attention from the real issue?
Sam it is simply not true that this letter changes the focus on R Kaminetsky and the heter to remarry without a GET
In the real world this letter did nothing except draw attention to the issue of the heter. R Shmuel was very upset about the letter which was widely distributed in Lakewood and was accepted as valid by many.
The issue here is mainly the Tamar Epstein hetter and secondary to that is the issue of the Ami newday magazine, since the roof will come down over the Kaminetsky's and rabbi Greenblatt, the Ami will also be brought down, since that support these kinds of action the forgeries are a non issue in the bigger picture
Upon reading the letter it was obvious to me that it is to mock RSK and did not look like a real letter - a pachkevil. If RSK wanted to give an appropriate response I suggest that he should have clarify his position regaqrding the marriage of Tamar E. The idea of making him a victim is the most typical way to distruct attention from the real issue
Rabbi dabba told me about serious threat levelled against rabbi nota greenstein from a person who lives in the trisatate ares, arrsts will be made and a restraining order obtained
Seems to me that this one is the forgery, either way I'm supper confused
ReplyDeleteWhat is this referring to?
ReplyDeleteThe issue remains that the bet din referred to I'm this story is Beis din machon of rabbi alt
ReplyDeleteCan we please see the "joint statement" reffred to herein
ReplyDelete1) Why is it important for Ami magazine to first tell us about the supposed troubled past of an individual, before it ever mentions the supposed topic at hand - namely, the supposed forgery?
ReplyDelete2) Why is 70% of Ami's note about a the supposed wrongdoings an unnamed individual?
3) It would seem that Ami magazine is really seeking to wage war with an unnamed individual, but it does not have the integrity to admit it, and actually declare war. Instead, they hide behind "troubled past" and "the reputation of the revered..."
Weird.
Why has the "Joint Statement" referenced here not been posted?
ReplyDeleteAnd why has this not been signed? Doesn't seem to be authentic. the rule of thumb always is;
ReplyDeleteAnything nameless is a pashkevil, with a name it's a statement.
What is the dispute/issue this is about?
ReplyDeleteMr. Frankfurter,
ReplyDeleteIs Ora truly a non-existent entity? Didn't Ami magazine just recently have a full write up on Ora, glorifying their multiple misdeeds?
Just because now you are ashamed and embarrassed to be depicted as belonging in the ORA camp given the current abominable circumstances (for which ORA, as well as those who praise and support them, must bear partial responsibility), does that relegate them from your front cover to non-existent????
Gimme a break! Your self centredness is really shameful!
Rabbi Eidenson, why do you publish this baal gaava's drivel????
http://matzav.com/a-fledgling-issue/
ReplyDelete(I accidentally also posted it on the wrong thread)
See this about Ami:
ReplyDeletehttp://matzav.com/a-fledgling-issue/
Ami's protest was published because the original letter was clearly a forgery. This is not the Soviet Union - you can't make up documents to prove that you views of certain people and organizations are true.
ReplyDeleteThis Ami dispute is related to ORA?
ReplyDeletethis is not a dispute - it is a response to a forged letter claiming a formal alliance that doesn't exist. Everyone agrees the original letter is a forgery
ReplyDeleteThe forged letter claimed Am I was in cahoots with OR A?
ReplyDeletePut all the forgeries aside, why dosent the Ami tell us there opinion with regard to the Tamar Epstein case!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWhy are they quite on this on this one, Reb Yitschok we wanto hear your דעת תורה
Maybe feature an interview with rabbi greenstein from Memphis
Obviously a forgery, and heretical to boot. "Various considerations" before Daas Torah?
ReplyDeleteObviously the original document was a parody, a sad yet comical one indeed. The Ami people did not catch on. Ami's notice states that it does not "have any knowledge of the matter at issue", however, the Public Notice lauds the Rosh Yeshiva in Philadelphia. One can assume that as journalists, at this point Ami does have information regarding this gevalt chilul Hashem. I suggest that Rabbi Eidensohn contact R' Frankfurter regarding the inyun in general. Ami is less pandering to the masses than other 'frum' publications and could even help.
ReplyDeleteWhere was this nutty letter published?
ReplyDeleteIt was distributed around Lakewood and it was on Yudel Shain's blog
ReplyDelete"an interview with rabbi greenstein"
ReplyDeleteThat should read: Rabbi Greenblatt
**THE FOLLOWING IS A FORGED LETTER ABOUT AMI MAGAZINE AND ORA WHICH ATTEMPTS TO DISCREDIT BOTH ORGANIZATIONS**
ReplyDeleteJoint Statement!
As the primary organizations in the Kehillah Hacharedit dedicated to the rights of Orthodox Jewish women in general, and specifically to those in quest of receiving a Get from recalcitrant husbands, we proudly unite to express tremendous gratitude to Hashem and his emissaries, the venerable Roshei Yeshivah of the great Philadelphia Yeshivah, Rabbis Shmuel and Shalom Kamenetzky and Rav Nota Greenblatt of Memphis, Tennessee for having granted Tamar Epstein a release from the bondage of a failed and abusive marriage, and enabled and oversaw her remarriage to Mr. Adam Fleischer, despite the resistance of her ex-husband to grant her a Get. They courageously chose to disregard the repeated proclamations of the Baltimore Bais Din, under whose jurisdiction these divorce proceedings were by virtue of both husband and wife signing binding arbitration by them, maintaining that Tamar remains an אשת איש until a Get is
given.
The tremendous Kiddush Hashem generated by the bold, courageous stand of these Rabbis shows the world that our Holy Torah and its values are in no way inferior ח"ו to that of any other religion,
and even in a case where a husband wields disproportionate power and withholds a Get from his
shackled wife, the Torah and its Rabbis are equal to the challenge and will find the means to permit
the wife to remarry even without receiving a Get from her husband.
To all those naysayers in the Rabbinic world who are deploring the act of annulment of a marriage as a means to permit a woman to remarry even in the absence of a Get, we respond, is it possible that the Jewish people, the light unto the nations of the world, can be so cruel and so recessive as to chain a woman into a dead marriage with no means of escape? Is there any greater transgression of the Mitzva of ואהבת לרעך כמוך ?
Up until today, only the Open Orthodox movement, assisted in part by the Modern Orthodox movement, have had the bravery and courage to break from some of the darkness of past generations and redevelop the fundamental beliefs of our Religion, in tandem with today’s modernized world. Now, however, with the Yeshivish, Orthodox world led by the great Roshei Yeshiva of Philadelphia joining the fray and uniting all the different brands of Orthodoxy under one umbrella, a סוכת שלם , we will usher in a new dawn that will be the precursor of our long
anticipated national dream, the coming of Moshiach .במהרה בימינו
Signed on this 30th day of Tishrei 5776, October 13th 2015,
Rabbi Avi Tzion Rabbi Yitzchok Frankfurter Rabbi Jeremy Stern
Executive Director Editor in Chief Chairman
Orthodox Jewish Ami Magazine ORA
Union of Feminists
Alert: Larry Kulak (may use other aliases) currently in Lakewood-consider to be extremely dangerous
ReplyDeletehttp://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1405003.html
Bald with a red trimmed beard
Posted by Yudel Shain at 9:55 AM
I
is this who Ami is referring to?
ReplyDeleteAmi is well aware of this as a SATIRE, but it is more convenient to play mesiach lefi tumo and wage war to discredit these allegations against them all, as if it is a FORGERY. How convenient.
ReplyDeleteThis is no less of a SATIRE than the other one asking to pray for his refuas hanefesh, although in a more formal format. Looks like to be from the same author as well, and on the same blog.
ReplyDeleteSeems less like a "forgery" than a "parody" to me...
ReplyDeletePerhaps the reference is to Frankfurter himself. Everything fits perfectly.
ReplyDelete"An individual with a troubled past" I think fighting with siblings, going to Din Torah with them, fighting with employers, being thrown out from one job after another sounds right.
"History of deceit and forgery" Presenting yourself as Reb Dovid Soloveichik's mouthpiece in America after having learnt there for half a year, and then using that cover to promulgate views that even the other Soloveichik family (JB) would be embarrassed of;
Claim to be talking in the name of different Chasidishe Rebbes who deny having anything to do with you;
Misquoting statements to your advantage;
Distorting facts;
Every edition of Ami has multiple examples!
WHAT A PERFECT FIT!!!
AMI are denying responsibility under threat from Reb Shmuel, then cleverly attributing it to none other than their own editor!!
BRILLIANT!!!
That's is pretty obvious. The notice by Ami may just be an effective way to distruct the public from the main issue.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the Ami is reffering to an individual of sefardi heritage who resides on the outskirts of Lakewood, this person told me that be was involved with this letter with the blessing of someone purporting to be rabbi frankfuter, he realizes now that he mislead
ReplyDeleteI believe the "feminist alliance " is the made up org he's referring to.
ReplyDeleteI knew a meilech frankfuter, I don't know if its a relative , sadly he was a crazy individual , was he related to the Ami family???
ReplyDeleteWhoever dares to besmirch my good name will be sued in beth yosef beth din
ReplyDeleteI'm very confused...
ReplyDeleteWhere does it say anything about Ami magazine?
This new development seem to turn things around. Until now RSK was under scrutiny but not anymore. Now he became the victim of forgery. Is this possible that this was done on purpose to divert attention from the real issue?
ReplyDeleteSam it is simply not true that this letter changes the focus on R Kaminetsky and the heter to remarry without a GET
ReplyDeleteIn the real world this letter did nothing except draw attention to the issue of the heter. R Shmuel was very upset about the letter which was widely distributed in Lakewood and was accepted as valid by many.
Right on! It is the umbrella to cover up as if everything else is also false. No, the quotes are quite accurate except for the pudding.
ReplyDeleteIf R' Shmuel was very upset about the "letter", I suggest that he be encouraged to release a statement explaining why its contents are spurious.
ReplyDeleteThe issue here is mainly the Tamar Epstein hetter and secondary to that is the issue of the Ami newday magazine, since the roof will come down over the Kaminetsky's and rabbi Greenblatt, the Ami will also be brought down, since that support these kinds of action the forgeries are a non issue in the bigger picture
ReplyDeleteUpon reading the letter it was obvious to me that it is to mock RSK and did not look like a real letter - a pachkevil.
ReplyDeleteIf RSK wanted to give an appropriate response I suggest that he should have clarify his position regaqrding the marriage of Tamar E.
The idea of making him a victim is the most typical way to distruct attention from the real issue
Rabbi dabba told me about serious threat levelled against rabbi nota greenstein from a person who lives in the trisatate ares, arrsts will be made and a restraining order obtained
ReplyDelete