Yes, the link above seems to be working. Or look for Yesterday's Child by Ruth Benjamin. This is the summary on Amazon:
Yesterday's Child" is the gripping and unusual tale of a courageous young man who, as a young boy, suffers the tragic loss of his mother, with whom he had lived with since her divorce from his father. After his mother's death he begins life anew in the picturesque South African city of Cape Town with his father, stepmother, and new siblings. What starts out as simple bar-mitzvah lessons blossoms into an abiding friendship with a local rabbi and his family. Despite his parents objections, he is drawn to the Torah and to his newfound friends as a thirsty traveler is drawn to an oasis in the desert. When he reaches adulthood, however, his seemingly brilliant and joyful future is suddenly shattered by startling revelations about his past. On the threshold of life's most critical decisions, he is thrust into the agony of dealing with dark secrets he cannot divulge to anyone besides his very closest friend. The reader watches with bated breath as the troubled young man embarks upon a voyage into his past, a voyage whose outcome will determine the very essence of his present and future.
Reb.Dovid,with all due respect i could not make out heads or tails from your article,could you please explain more clearly,why reb, Moshe and the other rabbonim were angry,and did not want to give a psak ? the only part i really understood was the amazing yiras shamayim of that bochur,who did not want to rely on reb.Moishe's psak ,WOW what a story,if i would know who he is,would go to him with a KVITTEL
Browser, I cannot explain their argument because it would require a lot of explanation and it is not short enough for a blog post. The point is simply as you said that a fellow chose to reject a clear pesak from the gadol hador because he wanted his rebbes to permit him to marry. That is the purpose. Also, I think that the article clearly indicates the power of talking to great rabbis not in learning but in shimush, which means not only to ask questions, but to go to them with ideas. When Reb Aharon Kotler died someone in the next table said, "Oh, if only I would have known I would have spoken to him more." And I mumbled to myself, "Now you say it."
I was lost too, if that makes you feel better. I walked away remembering the רש״י on דברים י״ז:ט The world is much poorer without Reb Moshe, true. But Judaism must continue and thus, the Rabbonim of today must proceed as well. And, given that reality, I walked away with the opposite lesson that (seemingly) was intended: TRUE gedolim move mountains to avoid declaring ממזרות, even when they hold it to be so.
A very interesting story. The problem is, today there is no Reb Moshe, not in America, and not in Israel. And even if someone in America or elsewhere says he can free a mamzer, nobody in Israel would accept him. That is one end of the problem. The other end is that divorces are not as they were in R' Moshe's time - if he freed an agunah, it was accepted, but the climate of chumros is such that today everything is suspect - geirim, gittin, agunot, and even Poskim and gedolim are suspect. Even the Israeli Haredi ashkenazi gedolim are divided like never before. if they can't agree amongst themselves, and talk about s'kilah, they won't do anything to save a poor mamzer.
Eddie, I don't see it that way. We have plenty of fights and plenty of politics but we also have people who learned a lot and have been around a long time dealing with the hard questions.
@Well -please go to school and learn how to read. Your nasty twisting of words and ideas shows complete lack of awareness that gedolim also listen and learn from others - or perhaps simply a willful denial of that fact.
I enjoyed reading about your shimush. However I think there is a salient point that the bochur missed. If he knew of Rav Moshe and the gravity of his p'sak it is innapropriate to be overly machmir. How is it different if there was a p'sak that something in the kitchen is batul and fully kosher but a person decides to be machmir and deny the halacha of bitul.
Dan Eidenserg, Of course you are right. But even a mistake can reveal somebody's great yiras shomayim. And what is so terrible about wanting to hear from his own rabbis? Obviously, he realized that they did not want to permit him Also, the rabbis of Israel did not negate Reb Moshe. Reb Shlomo Zalman was a major posek accepted all over the world. And there were others involved.
The point I was asserting is that the bochur was trying to follow "daat torah" so he was instructed that GR"M would be the posek for his situation. If he is submitting to the p'sak process then there is nothing wrong with following what he might feel is a lenient p'sak.
Dan Eisenberg, Nobody said that there was something wrong with going to Reb Moshe. But there is something inspiring about a boy wanting to be told by his rebbes, especially if is correctly sensed that they did not agree that he was okay. I don't think such a thing would occur to me. And not because I honor the posek hador, but for completely selfish reasons.
Read: Yesterday's Child by Ruth Benjamin
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Yesterdays-Child-Ruth-Benjamin/dp/1849141487
I can't reach that page. Is it the right spelling?
DeleteYes, the link above seems to be working. Or look for Yesterday's Child by Ruth Benjamin. This is the summary on Amazon:
DeleteYesterday's Child" is the gripping and unusual tale of a courageous young man who, as a young boy, suffers the tragic loss of his mother, with whom he had lived with since her divorce from his father. After his mother's death he begins life anew in the picturesque South African city of Cape Town with his father, stepmother, and new siblings. What starts out as simple bar-mitzvah lessons blossoms into an abiding friendship with a local rabbi and his family. Despite his parents objections, he is drawn to the Torah and to his newfound friends as a thirsty traveler is drawn to an oasis in the desert. When he reaches adulthood, however, his seemingly brilliant and joyful future is suddenly shattered by startling revelations about his past. On the threshold of life's most critical decisions, he is thrust into the agony of dealing with dark secrets he cannot divulge to anyone besides his very closest friend. The reader watches with bated breath as the troubled young man embarks upon a voyage into his past, a voyage whose outcome will determine the very essence of his present and future.
Reb.Dovid,with all due respect i could not make out heads or tails from your article,could you please explain more clearly,why reb, Moshe and the other rabbonim were angry,and did not want to give a psak ?
ReplyDeletethe only part i really understood was the amazing yiras shamayim of that bochur,who did not want to rely on reb.Moishe's psak ,WOW what a story,if i would know who he is,would go to him with a KVITTEL
chaim.s
Browser,
DeleteI cannot explain their argument because it would require a lot of explanation and it is not short enough for a blog post. The point is simply as you said that a fellow chose to reject a clear pesak from the gadol hador because he wanted his rebbes to permit him to marry. That is the purpose. Also, I think that the article clearly indicates the power of talking to great rabbis not in learning but in shimush, which means not only to ask questions, but to go to them with ideas. When Reb Aharon Kotler died someone in the next table said, "Oh, if only I would have known I would have spoken to him more." And I mumbled to myself, "Now you say it."
Chaim,
DeleteI was lost too, if that makes you feel better.
I walked away remembering the רש״י on דברים י״ז:ט
The world is much poorer without Reb Moshe, true. But Judaism must continue and thus, the Rabbonim of today must proceed as well.
And, given that reality, I walked away with the opposite lesson that (seemingly) was intended: TRUE gedolim move mountains to avoid declaring ממזרות, even when they hold it to be so.
Daniel S, no. Not if the hold it to be so.
DeleteA very interesting story. The problem is, today there is no Reb Moshe, not in America, and not in Israel. And even if someone in America or elsewhere says he can free a mamzer, nobody in Israel would accept him. That is one end of the problem. The other end is that divorces are not as they were in R' Moshe's time - if he freed an agunah, it was accepted, but the climate of chumros is such that today everything is suspect - geirim, gittin, agunot, and even Poskim and gedolim are suspect. Even the Israeli Haredi ashkenazi gedolim are divided like never before. if they can't agree amongst themselves, and talk about s'kilah, they won't do anything to save a poor mamzer.
ReplyDeleteEddie,
DeleteI don't see it that way. We have plenty of fights and plenty of politics but we also have people who learned a lot and have been around a long time dealing with the hard questions.
So now we know more precisely how the handling of gedolim works, how you make them tell what you want them to say, how you twist their words, etc...
ReplyDelete@Well -please go to school and learn how to read. Your nasty twisting of words and ideas shows complete lack of awareness that gedolim also listen and learn from others - or perhaps simply a willful denial of that fact.
DeleteI enjoyed reading about your shimush. However I think there is a salient point that the bochur missed. If he knew of Rav Moshe and the gravity of his p'sak it is innapropriate to be overly machmir. How is it different if there was a p'sak that something in the kitchen is batul and fully kosher but a person decides to be machmir and deny the halacha of bitul.
ReplyDeleteDan, you completely missed the point. The point is that he wanted a psak FROM HIS OWN POSEK. That is the normal and correct way a Jew behaves.
DeleteDan Eidenserg,
ReplyDeleteOf course you are right. But even a mistake can reveal somebody's great yiras shomayim. And what is so terrible about wanting to hear from his own rabbis? Obviously, he realized that they did not want to permit him Also, the rabbis of Israel did not negate Reb Moshe. Reb Shlomo Zalman was a major posek accepted all over the world. And there were others involved.
The point I was asserting is that the bochur was trying to follow "daat torah" so he was instructed that GR"M would be the posek for his situation. If he is submitting to the p'sak process then there is nothing wrong with following what he might feel is a lenient p'sak.
ReplyDeleteDan Eisenberg,
ReplyDeleteNobody said that there was something wrong with going to Reb Moshe. But there is something inspiring about a boy wanting to be told by his rebbes, especially if is correctly sensed that they did not agree that he was okay. I don't think such a thing would occur to me. And not because I honor the posek hador, but for completely selfish reasons.