Friday, September 18, 2009

Rosh HaShanna & a year of blogging


It has been an interesting and productive year and one which bears introspection and review. We have spent much effort on the issue of conversion and abuse. There have been some heated discussions - some of which were very abusive. Hopefully this year we will try harder and be more successful in having discussions within the boundaries of halacha and be more sensitive and accomplish more.

It is also clear that the internet has tremendous power for teaching and bringing about change. Hopefully we will be using it to bring about needed changes and kiddush haShem. For too long issues have been "swept under the rug" and there has been intimdation and bluff used to control others. The Blogs have the potential to be the great equalizer - but they need to be used responsibly. It still amazes me that I am having conversations or influencing people in South America or Asia and that people in Australia or Saudia Arabia are reading and commenting on what I have posted. I have learned much from your comments as well as the postings on this blog. For those who have been offended by my comments - I apologize and ask your mechila. For those who have made abusive comments to me - I forgive you whole heartedly. However for those who are offended by the truth - there is not much I can do.

Wishing all kesiva v'chasima tova

79 comments :

  1. For those who refuse to read posts or comments in their entirety and get offended, there is not much anyone can do.

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  2. DT,

    While you covered very few areas in this brief post, There are other areas where there needs to great improvement, that you have not yet mentioned:

    1) The area of making false statements; sometimes bordering as incitements; as semi-libel the area of saying half truths which changes the whole story, from turning a tzadik into a rasha and a rishus into tsidkoot and much much more in this area.

    This is besides the area of false assessment, of trivializing REAL problems and otoh of mislabeling REAL problems (like for instance, assessing the problem of a reform conversion as "proselytizing", and the same time not assessing the REAL problem in FAKE CONVERSION FACTORIES = INFLUX OF GOYIM into klal yisroel).

    3) This include also the hybrid of the two previous probelms, when there is a twisted and krum assessment which ends up maligning and portraying lechova someone that Torah instructs us to give him limud zchut (and that includes also not portraying him falsely because of past possible ills or chshbonot that go back decades or even the past but it does not relate to the present discussion or concerns).

    Wrt to mechila: I'm mochel you your banning me a few times, your censoring me a few times; your allowing of name calling and worse against me; I beg your mechilla at my maligning you of maligning a party when that was not sanctioned at that time according to torah (because allows at times "leafrushey meissuroh" to rebuke someone).

    But there is an area that I cannot help you: An area where you may have maligned person (or more) publicly through false info, false assessment, that area is not washed away by asking "mechila" greda! Just when someone does avera ben adam lechaveroy teshuva does not help even with begging mechila unless one REMEDIES THE THEW WRONG DONE so too, when one defames a person or RABBONIM OR ROSHEY YESHIVA WRONGLY and gives a wrong assessment of them, THE ONLY WAY TO FULLY REACH TESHUVA AND FORGIVENESS BY G-D is through FIXING the wrong done!

    Ktiva Vechatima Tova, and Gut Yom TOv,

    ReplyDelete
  3. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM

    [Very long two page article in latest English language Hamodia paper, written by Menachem Lubinsky LUBICOM president who gets paid by and represents EJF for his services, with a buried mention of EJF and its involvement with this project]:

    HAMODIA
    27 ELUL 5769 | COMMUNITY | SEPTEMBER 16, 2009
    Special Feature | By Menachem Lubinsky
    (Pages:) C10 & C12

    "The Emerging Story of a Miracle in Odessa

    "...Ohr Somayach became one of the first kiruv organizations to function here, they appointed Rabbi Shlomo Bakshat, a young idealistic, energetic talmid chacham, to assume the task of bringing a semblance of Yiddishkeit to this spiritually ravaged seaport city. What he accomplished in the 17 years he has been here is nothing short of a miracle, an accomplishment few would have dared to dream of in a community that had been all but abandoned...

    The occasion is a Shabbos in Elul designed to further strengthen the kiruv efforts of Nefesh Yehudi, funded by the Wolfson/Horn families and the anti-intermarriage programs of the Eternal Jewish family, funded by Tom Kaplan and led by Rabbi Leib Tropper, Rosh Yeshivah Kol Yaakov/Horizons...

    At the opening session on Thursday evening, Rabbi Tropper’s plea to marry Jewish is carried on a huge screen in a nearby amphitheater. I amplify his thoughts with a reflection on the historic moment of making 70 years since the beginning of Churban Europe…

    Rabbi Refoel Kruskal…built two chinuch institutions. But these are not the best of times for him or Rabbi Baksht. “We had to cut our budget from $11 million to $8 million as a result of the recession, when it became more difficult to raise funds.” That meant cutting out a newspaper that went to 10,000 homes, ceasing a media station that reached out to Ukrainian Jews...”

    ...Rabbi Baksht is frustrated at how much there is to do and the limited resources with which he has to work...”

    ReplyDelete
  4. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 1:15 PM

    A closer look at the latest HAMODIA article/infomercial promoting the work of EJF and Rabbi Tropper and the way it is presented:

    "The Emerging Story of a Miracle in Odessa"

    RaP: ALL kiruv rechokim stories are "miracles" by definition and what is true about Odessa has been replicated hundreds of times, if not thousands, by other rabbis and organizations. No need for hype, but the key reason in this case will emerge.

    “…Ohr Somayach became one of the first kiruv organizations to function here, they appointed Rabbi Shlomo Baksht,"

    RaP: This is Ohr Somayach's baby, and it's surprisng they are letting outsiders like the controversial Rabbi Tropper get involved in something that's been carefully built up over the years. But what can one do, money is in short supply, so in desperation people start looking at other options, as explained below.

    "The occasion is a Shabbos in Elul designed to further strengthen the kiruv efforts of Nefesh Yehudi, funded by the Wolfson/Horn families and the anti-intermarriage programs of the Eternal Jewish Family, funded by Tom Kaplan and led by Rabbi Leib Tropper, Rosh Yeshivah Kol Yaakov/Horizons…"

    RaP: As usual, EJF cannot be mentioned on its own, it must always go with the mention of Rabbi Tropper's name. Nevertheless one sees that Tom Kaplan is also still involved as the main funder of Rabbi Tropper and EJF at this stage. Notice how NO mention is made in this article about EJF's plans and activities of proselytization and encouraging gentiles hitched to Jews to obtian ultra-Haredi EJF-style conversions egged on by EJF. It was mentioned in a past infomercial about EJF and Odessa but in this case EJF's true agenda is played down entirely.

    Is something afoot? Perhaps. Rabbi Tropper/Tom Kaplan are presently mired in huge legal battles against uncle Tom's nephew, and face potential questioning about all their activities, so they need to hurriedly set up as "conventional" a record as possible, while supressing and hiding what EJF has been preaching and doing with gentiles it seeks to proselytize to and convert.

    "At the opening session on Thursday evening, Rabbi Tropper’s plea to marry Jewish"

    RaP: Hello, who needs him to say this? All kiruv rabbis know this and they have strategies that work. No need for Rabbi Tropper to add "pleas" that resemble nagging Jewish mothers to their secular offspring that may have worked to some degree in the 1930s but that have long been seen as futile because people do not respond to "pleas" from strange rabbis from across the sea, but rather people will respond to rabbis who can see their point of view and set up relationships that will change their lives, something that is not easy to do, but must be done to achieve these lofty goals. ...

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  5. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 1:15 PM

    "is carried on a huge screen in a nearby amphitheater."

    RaP: "huge screen"? "amphitheater"? The way it's described by Lubinsky, it's like a celebrity event, lehavdil, putting up a glitzy show.

    "I amplify his thoughts with a reflection on the historic moment of making 70 years since the beginning of Churban Europe…"

    RaP: So now Tropper is "amplified" by Lubinsky from Odessa to your eyes via this infomercial in Hamodia. Wait for it, here comes the real deal:

    "Rabbi Refoel Kruskal…built two chinuch institutions. But these are not the best of times for him or Rabbi Baksht. “We had to cut our budget from $11 million to $8 million as a result of the recession, when it became more difficult to raise funds.” That meant cutting out a newspaper that went to 10,000 homes, ceasing a media station that reached out to Ukrainian Jews…”

    RaP: Boo-hoo, they went down from "$11 million" to "$8 million" why should anyone care when that kind of budget is bigger than most mainstream yeshivas in the rich America. There are some very grandiose people in all this. One wonders what kind of salaries and benefits they have pulled in from creating this "miracle"?

    "…Rabbi Baksht is frustrated at how much there is to do and the limited resources with which he has to work…”

    RaP: Which explains why Rabbi Tropper/Tom Kaplan are now involved, having seen the opportunity and been invited in, Tom Kaplan gives funds to make up for the "limited resources" that have gone down from $11 to a paltry $8 million, and Rabbi Tropper gets yet another podium from which to preach his gospel of proselytization, only this time it's covered up with the new talk of "pleas to marry Jewish" (after all, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure") and EJF gets to have its name in the big headlights with the mainstream Haredi Ohr Somayach outreach organization, and Menachem Lubinsky gets the honor of not only being hired by EJF but also speaking at its seminars, fly around the world, and write lengthy tedious two page infomercials meant as primers for fundraising drives.

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  6. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 2:08 PM

    The Jewish Press's short version of the latest infomercial about EJF's attempts, highlights Rabbi Tropper's role, at penetrating Odessa. The JP discourages lengthy infomercials, therefore a writer knowing this will strive to hit home stronger and reveal his true game plan than he would like in the lenghty full two page article about EJF noted in the latest Hamodiah:

    The Jewish Press
    Friday, September 18, 2009
    Page 71

    “A Plea To Marry Jewish In Odessa

    An amphitheater overflowing with Jewish students was the background for a plea “to preserve your ties with our eternal Jewish family and to Our Father” by Rabbi Leib Tropper, chairman of the rabbinic committee of the Eternal Jewish Family (EJF). Speaking via live hookup during the opening of a major shabbaton in Odessa, Ukraine, Rabbi Tropper received wide applause when he pleaded, “do not sever your ties to our glorious past and even more to what will be a glorious future.” The shabbaton was part of a major initiative by EJF to stem the tide of assimilation in intermarriages in Jewish communities around the world. It was sponsored in conjunction with Nefesh Yehudi and funded by the Wolfson and Horn Families and Tikva, a local kiruv organization.

    Rabbi Tropper was followed by Menachem Lubinsky, president of LUBICOM Marketing Consulting and special consultant to EJF. Noting that it was the week marking the 70th anniversary of the beginning of the systematic destruction of eastern European Jewry by the Nazis, Lubinsky added, “What better time than now to reaffirm our commitment to Jewish eternity?”...

    The session was introduced by Rabbi Shlomo Baksht, Odessa’s chief rabbi and architect of the remarkable resurgence of Jewish life in Odessa...

    ...More than 25 young frum couples have gone through Tikvah and Shma Yisroel (a network of Torah institutions) and will be the leaders of a new frum communty in Odessa for years to come.

    EJF will be organizing similar events in America and Asia. EJF is funded by the Kaplan Foundation, and headed by Tom Kaplan its chairman.”

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  7. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 3:18 PM

    What's up with the latest Jewish Press Friday, September 18, 2009 informercial about EJF, a closer look:

    "A Plea To Marry Jewish In Odessa"

    RaP: While the lengthy two page obviously pro-EJF article in the guise of an "objective story about a "miracle" was in the Hamodia and was titled "The Emerging Story of a Miracle in Odessa" it's outright dumped in The Jewish Press that says it was all really about one thing, you guessed it, Rabbi Tropper yelling via video conferencing yet for "A Plea To Marry Jewish In Odessa" and it only get's worse.

    The only huge gap is that the JP audience is not told about the local Odessa kiruv folks being $3 million short with a budget that they had to cut from $11 million to $8 million. Guess the editors or the folks at the JP are less materialistic than the Hamodia ones, or they are scared stiff to write about real money and the real reasons why Rabbi Tropper could have weedled himself in on the back of Tom Kaplan's probable generosity being the key to the Odessan kiruv people. Guess this has the makings of a book, like: "A day in the life of an Odessan kiruv rabbi."

    "An amphitheater overflowing with Jewish students was the background for a plea"

    RaP: Again with the "amphitheater" as if competing with uncle Tom's nephew and again with "pleas" that is a no-brainer to flop. No one listens to pleas and nagging, it's like Nancy Reagan saying "just say no" to drugs or whatever that became meat for good comedy routines but hardly was proven to work.

    “to preserve your ties with our eternal Jewish family and to Our Father” by Rabbi Leib Tropper,

    RaP: Wow, look at this silly attempt at subliminal messaging of "eternal Jewish family" meant to connect with the Eternal Jewish Family organization, as if the name of a multi-million organization that is basically a multi-million stealth proselytization machine has anything to do with the poor Ukrainian humdrum goings on of even the most "eternal (of) Jewish families".

    Oh, and don't you love that reference "to Our Father"! Never heard of calling G-d by his Name: G-d, or H-shem or Hakadosh Baruch Hu. What does "Our Father" invoke and evoke in former subjects of the Soviets? Stalin? The Czar? Joining the "Father" fighting for the "Motherland" against the enemies that want to vanquish her? Quite a clever pitch to former USSR peoples with Tropper stepping in via live hookups in amphitheaters with melodramatic appeals. Bla-bla-bla like "great leaders" speaking from the top of the Kremlin podium at a staged and orchestrated rally.

    "chairman of the rabbinic committee of the Eternal Jewish Family (EJF)."

    RaP: Always the need for big titles, like those characters from small tin-pot regimes that insist on wearing uniforms with rows of medals and awards and titles that are hollow and meaningless. But this is part of a drive to promote a "product" by the name of "Rabbi Tropper" so why be surprisid.

    "Speaking via live hookup during the opening of a major shabbaton in Odessa, Ukraine, Rabbi Tropper received wide applause"

    RaP: Why couldn't he make the event if it's so important? Is he now like Rav Shteinman who speaks via live hookups to audiences? This is absurd and comical. Maybe there was good music in the build-up and wait so they were applauding to that. ...

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  8. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM

    "when he pleaded, “do not sever your ties to our glorious past and even more to what will be a glorious future.”

    RaP: Da, da pravda. Fight for the glorious "motherland" of EJF and its glorious "fathers" Tropper-Kaplan. Isn't that what all those posters with Engels-Marx-Lenin, were about, with Engels having been a financial backer of Marx's ideas leading the way for Lenin's spellbinding oratory? Da, da taveresh. Nazdarovia comrade Tropper.

    "The shabbaton was part of a major initiative by EJF to stem the tide of assimilation in intermarriages in Jewish communities around the world."

    RaP: Now it gets tricky. Is it saying that this whole shebang was sponsored by EJF? If so, why doesn't the Modiah article bring that out where it makes it sound that it was a general effort of Odessa to which EJF was invited to participate. And notice the dangerous language and revelation of EJF's true goals: "to stem the tide of assimilation in intermarriages" now what in the heck does that mean in plain English? "assimilation in intermarraige"? Nope! Those are two different things and notions. There is the process of assimilation, and then there is the phenomenon of intermarriage.

    While assimilation can lead to intermarriage it is not the same thing that it must be intertwined into a neologism (a new word or phrase") of "assimilation in intermarriages".

    Anyhow this is more than a hint of what EJF is all about, to proselytize in order to get into the nitty gritty of dealing with interfaith and intermarried couples and try to convert the non-Jewish partners to EJF-style ultra Haredi conversions.

    "It was sponsored in conjunction with Nefesh Yehudi and funded by the Wolfson and Horn Families and Tikva, a local kiruv organization."

    RaP: Are they now funding EJF as well since this was an EJF event as this infomercial states? Maybe EJF is also short of cash (or the kind of mega bucks it once had access to) since it lost the mega funding from ucle Tom's nephew through lawsuits.

    "Rabbi Tropper was followed by Menachem Lubinsky, president of LUBICOM Marketing Consulting and special consultant to EJF."

    RaP: Is this what it's come to? Tropper followed by his hired gun propagandist who THINKS he is "skilled" with words because in the land of the blind (the Haredi clients of Lubinsky that were not as savvy originally to adverstising as much), the one-eyed man is "king" (Lubinsky, he figured out how to do this kind of stuff and draw in the newly emerging Haredi clients).

    "Noting that it was the week marking the 70th anniversary of the beginning of the systematic destruction of eastern European Jewry by the Nazis, Lubinsky added, “What better time than now to reaffirm our commitment to Jewish eternity?”...

    RaP: Another piece of cheap subliminal words with his spouting "commitment to Jewish eternity" trying to tie it in with "Eternal" "Jewish" F. And dargging the Holocaust into it is just scare tactics and will not work as any kiruv rabbi knows. ...

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  9. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM

    "The session was introduced by Rabbi Shlomo Baksht, Odessa’s chief rabbi and architect of the remarkable resurgence of Jewish life in Odessa..."

    RaP: So now Rabbi Baksht is "chief rabbi" as well and not just a humble "miracle man" with a budget of $8-11 million per year? Did the Baal Shem Tov need millions in money to start his movement, also in the area of Ukraine/Carpathia? Did the Baal HaTanya need money? Did the Vilna Gaon? Did Rav Nachman need it? How about the Chofetz Chaim, how much did he require to get famous and do his job? The BESHT just took a menial job as a ba'al agala (wagon driver), an impoverished melamed tinokes (elementary teacher), and poor shammos (beadle of a synagogue), and yet he managed to perform a real miracle and succeeded to launch a real movement. Maybe that's why 90% of the world's Jews, meaning the vastly secular majority, are not responding to all the "kiruv" because so much of the kiruv is based on raising and using tens of millions of dollars, instead of the rabbis going off and doing kiruv they head to create kiruv money machine corporations instead.

    "...More than 25 young frum couples have gone through Tikvah and Shma Yisroel (a network of Torah institutions) and will be the leaders of a new frum communty in Odessa for years to come."

    RaP: Who are these "25 young frum couples" and presumably there are plans to manufacture more like them? Are they going to be the clients that Rabbi Tropper and his EJF "miracle conversion machine" will be flown in for to help with giving these young couples EJF-style super-haredi conversions? Is Rabbi Tropper and EJF seeking them out because they are an obvious market in need of his services? It looks that way and it was stated more specifically in earlier articles that first described what Rabbi Tropper and EJF were going to be doing Odessa and Eastern Europe.

    "EJF will be organizing similar events in America"

    RaP: Can't wait!

    "and Asia."

    RaP: Asia? Well, Israel is technically in "Asia" so is that it, or is EJF gearing up to convert all those Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Malaysian and Philipino girls that Jewish and Israeli men LOVE to marry? May as well practice that old adage of "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" right? Wrong!

    "EJF is funded by the Kaplan Foundation,"

    RaP: Maybe this is the real scoop. No more Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation which dumped Tropper and uncle Tom and is now controlled by uncle Tom's nephew. Welcome to the new "Kaplan Foundation" without the "Lillian Jean" name in it! What will become of it and what succes it will have and what resources it will be able to call and draw upon remains to be seen.

    "and headed by Tom Kaplan its chairman."

    RaP: Right-O!

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  11. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 21, 2009 at 6:07 PM

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  12. R’ Eidenshon,

    While you have many zechiyos outside this blog (gemachm chinuch, etc) in this blog you were mekeyem ‘ubiarta hara mekirbecha’ (Deuteronomy 21:21). First by rasing awareness and providing solutions to the problem of child molestation and second by exposing Tropper.

    As Jersey Girl said on this blog that existence of child molestrs in our community and the rise to prominence of Tropper are symptoms of the corruption in our community.

    Now B’H children have more advocates and it is more acceptable to report molesters to the police. However when Tropper was in his peak of its power and had hundreds of rabbis eating from his hand you were the first one to speak up, ask questions and declare that the king is naked.

    Now Tropper is much weaken and more rabbis are daring to speak against him and hopefully soon he and Kaplan will have to close shop. Then you already gain your chelek in gan eden.

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  13. The subject of this blog about uncovering falsehoods. One of them is YOU! and the haters of one man: Rabbi Tropper!

    Instead of focusing on REAL problems of the influx of goyim to klal yisroel you invented a buzzword the P word as if all ills of society rests on this. this is mere pretext so that you can pound on Rt.

    Actually Rabbonim and Roshey Yeshivot disagree with the krumkeyt of declaring RT as the problems; they actually think that he is the solution against your friend and your colleagues who brought a plague of influx of many goyim and REAL proselytizing through FAKE CONVERSION! through fake dayanim like RB. For this, Rabbis like Rav Reuven feel that Rt is the solution against the ills that HB/you bring to klal yisroel.

    to be continued...

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  14. In fact, there is no forgery of any documnet, except for the krumer of jupiter. The document clearly had rabbis who had guts and courage to put their name aginst the conversion of Rabbi Herbert Bomzer! Even those who did not concur with the all the content of the letter, clarified that they acknowledge that the man makes lots of conversions that lack any shred of kabbalat mitzvot and they urge all rabbis from refraining of being messader kiddushin to his converts!


    Now, you jump to state another falsehood (that is usual to your fantasies from jupiter) that I was disrespectful of Rav Shternbuch:

    I can NEVER compete with you reagrding bizayon of Talmid chachomim! no one comes close to you! the chutzpah par excellenace at rabbonim and roshey Yeshivot1

    All I say is that RAv Sternbuch (while being a talmid chacham) is a DAAS YACHID in this whole "p" word and others disagree with him! and is a minor issue compared to the real issue of bringing goyim to klal yisroel!
    to be continued

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  16. the Monsey Tzadik said...

    R’ Eidenshon,


    Now Tropper is much weaken and more rabbis are daring to speak against him and hopefully soon he and Kaplan will have to close shop. Then you already gain your chelek in gan eden.
    ==============
    Monsey Tzadik I really disagree with you and actually my position is closer to R' Tropper and his alter ego Roni.

    As I have stated many time - I will fold up shop when I get a teshuva from R' Eliashiv or R' Dovid Feinstein that explains the justification for what they are doing in terms that Rav Sternbuch holds to be legitimate.

    My stubborness is not the result of hatred. I found R' Tropper to be charming and pleasant - when he wasn't fixated on his paraoid fanasty that I have somehow hypnotized the Bedatz to attack him.
    Likewise Roni - who is amazingly identical in his personality - really has some intelligent and sensitive things to say when he is not driven up the wall by some of our comments. The common feature of this duo is that as long as they stay within their rational range - I have no problem with what they think or do. However when they go into the angry irrational zone with their fear that somehow I am threatening to take something from them - then they are really unpleasant and problematic.
    Thus my ideal scenario is that R' Tropper will some day soon make the small effort to be understood by the Bedatz and that we all work together.

    In sum, I am not at war with R' Tropper and am really just a disappointed admirer of his energy and talent which I feel he is misusing.

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  17. I found R' Tropper to be charming and pleasant
    ==================================
    Really ? Are you sure your are talking about r’ Tropper and not let says r’ Yaakov Horowitz? They are both live in Monsey but they are two different people.

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  18. Now, the worse is, that you cannot withhold your middot raos, and besmirch someone who has not done anything to you (I do not know exactly what Rt did to you...) Rabbi Bakst; you are all up ion arms about the fact that the paper wrote about the millions tha the operates. Did he take any money from you?

    What do you want from RAbbi Bakst? What irks you to besmirch a man that did no harm to anyone? Is he YOUR COMPETITOR?

    Shame on you, for your jealousy overcomes you and you must use this medium on asseret yemey teshuva to besmirch Rabbi Bakst for doing kiruv!

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  19. MT r and all your names...
    when you wrote some of the earlier ones I undertood you a bit (for to be melamed zchus on you, although it is very difficult since you join the ocher yisroel FM and the other ocher yisroelUOJ (who wrote the most shmuutz on someone like Arizal and other of gerdoylely yisroel that were accepted accross the board by klal yisroel) for i assume you are a party to some of the early mishaps,

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  21. dt"As I have stated many time - I will fold up shop when I get a teshuva from R' Eliashiv or R' Dovid Feinstein that explains the justification for what they are doing in terms that Rav Sternbuch holds to be legitimate.

    My stubborness is not the result of hatred. I found R' Tropper to be charming and pleasant - when he wasn't fixated on his paraoid fanasty that I have somehow hypnotized the Bedatz to attack him.
    Likewise Roni - who is amazingly identical in his personality - really has some intelligent and sensitive things to say when he is not driven up the wall by some of our comments. The common feature of this duo is that as long as they stay within their rational range - I have no problem with what they think or do. However when they go into the angry irrational zone with their fear that somehow I am threatening to take something from them - then they are really unpleasant and problematic.
    Thus my ideal scenario is that R' Tropper will some day soon make the small effort to be understood by the Bedatz and that we all work together.

    In sum, I am not at war with R' Tropper and am really just a disappointed admirer of his energy and talent which I feel he is misusing."

    You have no justification whatsoever for allowing the lynching of a person the way you allow here on RT! You have your disagreements with him based on RAv Sternbuch's position, mah tov umah naim! KAch Darkoh shel torah! I would even align myself with some of the minor criticisms you had on him in the past (like some of the articles that appeared over the web); but :

    1) You allow lynching and hotzoat diboh of a man to unprecedented levels,

    2)In addition: You are WRONG in that he has no backing! In times of your honesty you will inside you realize that Rav REuven is his strong backer. If you would be honest, you would realize that some of the teshuvot of Rav ELyashiv back up 85% of his acitvites. You are not right to criticiZe him so vehemently on this issue (that I will remind you and the ah from j: you never provided us with a source that this iis "*assur*) and certainly not right to have a lyncihng of the man and a bizoyon of Rav REuven and others (and stam a bizoyon excerise of person like Rabbi Bakst, FOR WHAT??) It is *YOUR* BLOG! Is this part of your removing things from being "swept under the carpet"? by putting shmootz at good people? ON asseret yemey teshuva???

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  24. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 22, 2009 at 9:54 AM

    Notice how Roni/Tropper never sticks to the point of any subject, and never discusses issues, but he will automatically resort to screaming about tangents and create red herrings, putting up smokesceens to distract from what comes right out his/Tropper's EJF's/LUBICOM's/Dennis Rapps in the Jewish Press's own infomercials.

    Like, what EXACTLY is going on in Rabbi Baksht's Odesssa operation?

    Meaning, what is the situation as far as his students both single and intermarried requiring conversions?

    It is well known that of the remaining Jews in the former Soviet Union up to 90% are the children of goyim, and Rabbi Baksht's Ukrainian students are presumably no exception and it has to be that probably as high as 90% of them may be goyim al pi Halacha and require conversions.

    Therefore it is logical and pertinent to ask and note:

    Which rabbonim and batei din have been involved with performing conversions so far in the Odessa domain under Rabbi Baksht's control? (and he is a powerful religious oligarch if he can presently raise and command an annual budget of at least $8 million to %11 million! Tropper does not waste his time with small time people, his blown up ego will never allow that.)

    Which gedolim or poskim have been consulted and have given haskomas in writing to Rabbi Baksht's work in reaching out and educating the inevitbale gentiles (meaning the non-Jewish students according to Halacha, having a verifibale known Jewish mother) among his students, or is bringing Rabbi Tropper and EJF in as his new-found "fig-leaf" cover to solve his students' conversion headaches so that he needn't answer more?

    Since EJF is known to be a rabid missionary-like organization that seeks out the gentile spouses hitched to Jews and proselytizes to achive its goals, and has been criticised by Rav Shternbuch and the full BADATS for this and accordingly with all rabbis being asked to withdraw from associating with EJF's and Tropper's proselytization agenda, why is Rabbi Baksht and his people allowing this? unles one is to now assume that Rabbi Baksht and his Ohr Somayach enablers and helpers are now ALSO in an alliance with Rabbi Tropper and EJF to do forbidden proselytization to the inevitabae large influx of goyim (al pi Halacha that are goyim) in spite of having a Jewish father or grandparent or greatgrandparent or maybe not even that? ...

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  25. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 22, 2009 at 9:56 AM

    Since Tropper's and EJF's open and known mission statement is to host and toast gentiles and convert them to EJF style super haredi conversions since in Odessa they are:

    (a) not being asked to do kiruv as that would be redundant since Rabbi Baksht and his folks are already doing that (while Tropper yelling at them to "marry Jewish" via webcasts is a total waste of everyone's time there), and

    (b) In odessa, EJF and Tropper do not have too many rabbis to preach to about higher standards in conversion.

    Rabbi Baksht and his Ohr Somayach enablers and partners have already thrown in their lot with Tropper's and EJF's name in the media at least hoping to get millions from Tom Kaplan, but they have still not invited Tropper to join them again at their faculties in Jerusalem , Monsey or anywhere else for that matter because presumably Ohr Somyach rabbis only want higher standards as it is, so it has to be that in this cynical marriage of convenienec Tropper and EJF are being brought in as rich fat cats to the rescue, but not with a free ticket, they must pay heavily at the door, to undertake and perform the excuses and take the heat for the conversion functions under EJF auspices that Rabbi Baksht needs for his Ukrainians, but is faraid to take the next steps becaue he is smart enough to know that no haredi rabbi can advocate or perform MASS CONVERSIONS except for Rabbi tropper who has given himself and bought off many to think of himself as the "world headquarters" of haredi conversions.

    But this kind of cynical marriage, like all marriages of convenience, is bound to crumble and fall apart based on the terrible assumptions and conflicting goals of its partners.

    There is therefore justifiable fear that with both Rabbis Tropper and Baksht being accustomed and hooked to budgets that run in the tens of millions of dollars, like any incurable addicts, they will need to reach an even scarcer and more fargoyished pool of students who ipso facto need conversions to keep their schools and conversion aparrati running.

    This is a dangerous situation where proselytization happens de facto and then "de jure" (just see Roni/Tropper's constant justifications for it, like "where does it say, bla-bla-bla" that only a talmid chochem shoteh would think like that) allowing Klal Yisroel to fall into the very pit that Roni/Tropper is screaming at others about: The bringing into Klal Yisroel of Ukrainian and other gentiles that should be left on the outside, and Tropper Tropper and Rabbi Baksht should do the honest things, go back to Monsey (Tropper) and to Ohr Somayach (Baksht) respectively and stop recruiting goyim gemurim from among the Ukrainian anti-Semites, who will then come to Israel and paint Swastikas on shulls and beat up Charedim on the streets.

    But it's a big nisayon to give up an addiction to power and tens of millions of dollars when it gets you famous while you are only a small time kiruv rabbi to start with.

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  26. Rap the man of jupiter with the special chollent with der krummer concctions strikes again:

    All of sudden, he now changes his tunes, making a new chat he has not done earlier about Rabbi Bakst. A mechutzaf and motzi diboh par excellence striking anyone who is from a different party that his own and especially when they are successful he is not fearful to stirke again and again equipped with the venomous pen that kills three (as chazal say).

    This dangerous individual all of sudden charges Rabbi Bakst operations like he is heavily involved in "...Which gedolim or poskim have been consulted and have given haskomas in writing to Rabbi Baksht's work in reaching out and educating the inevitbale gentiles (meaning the non-Jewish students according to Halacha, having a verifibale known Jewish mother) among his students,...",

    He has already made a certain conclusion that Rabbi Bakst is heavily involved in covnerting all "inevitable gentiles" he encoutners, and he asks whogives him these haskomos for this?

    He claims that 90% are goyim and that rabbi Bakst 1) performs covnersions to all these goyim, 2) called Rabbi Tropper and Rabib Tropper got involved to convert, 3) Asks "... Which rabbonim and batei din have been involved with performing conversions so far in the Odessa domain under Rabbi Baksht's control?"

    And then goes on with the heaviest of his crimes: the jealousy that someone has lots of access to money makes him cringe in all of his being.
    to be continued

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  28. later more,

    but to clarify so that motzi sheker and diboh should NOT confuse again with chollents (and im surprised at Dt for allowing so many hotzaas shem rah to be left unachallenged):

    1) Rabbi Bakst and Rav Tropper in 8THIS* ACTIVITY RECORDED BY THE PAPERS HAS GOT *NOTING* TO DOWITH COVNERSIONS; IT IS LIKE MANY ACTIVITIES AND SEMINARS BY MANY KIRUV ORGANIZATIONS LIKE ARACHIM, OHR SAMEACH AND NFEFESH YEHUDI (AND THAT MATTER MANY CHABAD ACTIVITIES),

    2) THAT TERGET RAVAKIM TO DISSUADE THEM FROM INTEMARRYING,

    3) TO ATTRIBUTE THIS TO COVNERSIONS IN GENERAL IS MOTZI SHEM RAH VEDIBAH,

    4) AS AN ASIDE AND A RESPONSE TOT HE NEW DIBAH OF RAP THAT RABBI BAKST WOULD BE INVOLVED IN PROSETYZING (WHICH IS UNFOUNDED AND MERE SPECULATION AND HYPERBOLE), I CALL ATTENTION TO THE SAME BUDGETS AND ACTIVITES OF OTHER ORGANIZATION LIKE CHABAD WHERE RAP DID NOT SPEND ONE IOTA CRTICIZING THEM: FOR THEY ARE INOLVOLVED IN KIRUV AND IF NEEDED THEY HAVE TO CONVERSIONS,

    5) SOEMTIMES FRDULAENT COVNERSIONS HAPPEN IN THOSE AREAS,

    6) WHICH LEGITIMIZES ESTABLISHING KOSHER BATEY DINIM

    MORE LATER,,

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  29. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 22, 2009 at 7:22 PM

    So if we are to understand poster Roni's/Tropper's latest response:

    Roni/Tropper confirms that Rabbi Baksht is involved with geirus in Odessa (this was said in earlier EJF infomercials in any case). Yet he does not want to give the percentages involved. Why is he afraid of the bitter truth that it maybe that as many as 90% of the students will be goyim and therefore "candidates" requiring conversions.

    Roni then asserts that it is wrong to depict Rabbi Baksht as a CEO type of rabbi who is not merely some humble lowly kiruv worker who is desperate to pay his electric or rent bills, but is refuted by the multi million dollar figures (this is big money, not the small amounts that would not raise eyebrows) that were released in EJF's own infomercial delivered by the well-paid EJF PR man, Menachem Lubinsky of LUBICOM who openly writes that Rabbi Baksht was responsible for a budget of $11 million that's now dropped to $8 million, and no doubt he will now be needing more (who doesn't need more?) to cover his budget.

    So Roni/Tropper now has a fit that the dots are being connected and the conclusion appears to be that Tropper is in in Odessa with Baksht because Baksht needs mega bucks (and help with his conversions of the goyim headaches) and even that Tropper himself is looking for mega bucks from the Wolfson and Horn families who are giving for Odessa (and conversion of the more goyim the merrier) and now maybe Tropper hopes to get millions from them as well for his work in Odessa, because after all, he has recently humiliatingly lost the source of his former flow of at least $10 million from uncle Tom's nephew.

    Then Roni confirms that Tropper and EJF will be involved in setting up their super duper ultra haredi very kosher bais din that only Tropper can deliver (makes one wonder how any conversions were conducted in the last 2000 years without Tropper to monitor them all?)

    And to really throw in a huge curve ball poster Roni/Tropper resorts to his instinctive habit of resorting to red herring arguments and the fallacy of the "two wrongs do not make it right" false logic that "because" Chabad is doing stuff so can he/EJF and Baksht. Is that logic? It's the illogic of the real krumme kop around here, and it ain't me.

    Since when can anyone influence what Chabad is doing? Their entire movement is vast and unwieldy, so should one start a world war with them too like Tropper has done with the Haredi rabbis of the BADATS and others? Even Rav Aron Kotler was wary of starting wars with Chabad in his day (he called them "Cossacks") and they were much smaller then. They are probably doing lost of reckless things, so is that a "heter" for Tropper or Baksht to jump in and do the exact same thing as Chabad becaue they can notch up big budgets and big slaries for themselves, and you can't tell me that guys like Tropper or Baksht who raise more than ten million a year from big shots do not get kushy salaries with gantz feine benefits and perks.

    In any case, Ukraine and Russia and most of the former USSR are basically Chabad zones and it's like poaching in forbidden fields.

    Maybe Baksht knew how to keep the peace with the Chabad people, but guaranteed that Tropper will incite hate and fighting with them as we already see indicated here with the surprisng use of citing them as a krumme back to front "heter" "justifying" proselytizations and conversions by Tropper and EJF by poster Roni/Tropper right here and now.

    This may be like the ultimate Molotov cocktails that Tropper will throw at rabbis and they will not be as kind to him as the Kaplan nephew was when he allegedly did not drop Tropper out the window supposedly. It's a very dangerous game to wage war against Chabad, so let's back off from that precipice. There is nothing anyone can do about them, they are a law unto themselves and you can't "justify" anything (especially as a Litvishe rosh yeshiva or rov which Tropper claims to be) from the way they do or don't do things which maybe Tropper instinctively resents since he is that way himself! ...

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  30. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 22, 2009 at 7:23 PM

    Shame on Roni/Tropper for resorting to arguing that he and Baksht can merrily do what they want as Litvish rabbonim yet because, hey, look, Chabad rabbis who have nothing to do with the Litvish world, are doing it as well.

    Is that now going to be the newest excuse for NOT coming up with the standard written official haskomas from LITVISH gedolim that it's perfectly ok to set up shop in the fardorbenne Ukraine with all the shiksas and shkotzimlach starving, homeless, needing clothing and schooling and now finding out that they can get it all these "free benefits" including conversions to Judaism if they sign up with Baksht's programs and agree to hear a teleconference speech from Tropper "to marry Jewish" when they are already the children of GOYISHE parents and grandparenets and often greatgrandparents who did not marry Jewish and are goyim gemurim al pi din.

    Roni/Tropper protesteth too much (if he knows what that expression means and implies) and he and Baksht should do chesbon hanefesh during the Aseres Yemei Teshuva, do the the honest thing and either come up with the required written haskomas or minimal divrei brocha from a number of gedolim that it's now perfectly ok to go out and proselytize to the shekotzim and shiksas in the Ukraine or anywhere in the former USSR, or else pack and leave and come back to the Torah centers in the USA and Israel that the come from.

    In the USA or Israel Tropper and Baksht couldn't do it because the Conservative and Reform and secular Jewish establishments would throw them out. NCSY knows how to mekarev Jewish kids and not bulldozers and bulvans like Tropper.

    Roni/Tropper must not start up with the twisted and useless arguments that if the Lubavitchters are doing it why can't they, which is like saying if people are cheating and lying why can't you. That is called the laws of the jungle and it's not the way either Yiddishkeit or Halacha wowrk as far as anyone knows.

    But hey, you can get away with a lot in the far off Ukraiane where people know zilch about Yiddishkeit and halacha and no one from anywhere esle can see what you are really up to behind the former Iron Curtain. And you can broadcast yourself as the "greatest rabbi on Earth" and yell and nag people "to marry Jewish" like demented and twisted yenta that gets nowhere with her loud rants.

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  31. Roni now find another red herring, Chabbad!. However Chabbad are realy involved in keiruv even when there are no gentiles involved while the EJF primary line of business is conversions.

    Chabbad do not set conferences, do not fly intermarried couples to fancy hotel (they do serve free vodka in their functions), do not try to make any Jew a chabbadnic, do not force humras on people, they realize that not every Jew is destined to become haredi. They are mostly self sufficient and have no Kaplan like uncle who pays for their efforts.

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  32. "Roni/Tropper confirms that Rabbi Baksht is involved with geirus in Odessa (this was said in earlier EJF infomercials in any case)."

    Confirms ANOTHING of the sort! He is involved in geirut as any chabad/kiruv worker is involved.

    You are as usual a motzi shem rah vesheker.

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  33. "Why is he afraid of the bitter truth that it maybe that as many as 90% of the students will be goyim and therefore "candidates" requiring conversions".

    That is just like all kiruv organizationns working there and in many other places where there are 90% or more or less of jews who are intermarried.

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  34. "Roni then asserts that it is wrong to depict Rabbi Baksht as a CEO type of rabbi who is not merely some humble lowly kiruv worker who is desperate to pay his electric or rent bills,"


    NO MR KRUMMER! what is wrong is for you to say that his budged makes it certain that he is into hitching a million goyim! just a it would be wrong to say that chabad in california let's say, who raise millions in their teltethons do so to HITCH A MILION GOYIM1 IT WOULD BE WRONG AND MOTZI SHEM ROH VESHEKER!

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  35. "So Roni/Tropper now has a fit that the dots are being connected and the conclusion appears to be that Tropper is in in Odessa with Baksht because Baksht needs mega bucks (and help with his conversions of the goyim headaches)"


    wHAT IS WRONG IS FOR YOU TO MAKE YOU OWN CONNECTION AND SAY THA TTHIIS IS THE TRUTH! RATHER THAN WHAT IS BEING WRITTEN ABOUT THAT THEY WENT INTO A COMBINED ACTIVITIY OF KIRUV TO STOP INTERMARRIAGE,

    JUST AS IT WOULD BE WRONG TO SAY THAT CHABAD IN CALIFORNIA RAISED 7,000,000 TO HITCH GOYIM TO MAKE THEM JEWS!

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  36. "Then Roni confirms that Tropper and EJF will be involved in setting up their super duper ultra haredi very kosher bais din that only Tropper can deliver (makes one wonder how any conversions were conducted in the last 2000 years without Tropper to monitor them all?)"

    RONI CONFIRMED NOTHING OF THE SORT. RONI MADE HIS OWN CONNECTION OF THE DOTS! that if they woul have Batey dinim set up, then it would probably be a great thing TO STOP BOMZER AND HIS LIKES TO MAKE FAKE CONVERSIONS AS THEY DID TO PEOPLE FROM THE FORMER Su

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  37. "And to really throw in a huge curve ball poster Roni/Tropper resorts to his instinctive habit of resorting to red herring arguments and the fallacy of the "two wrongs do not make it right" false logic that "because" Chabad is doing stuff so can he/EJF and Baksht. Is that logic? It's the illogic of the real krumme kop around here, and it ain't me."

    if thereis anything krum it is you the REvve of Krumland of Jupiter no one can take your job!

    1) what is being said, is just like you cannot and would not make the assertion that chabad rabbis who work and live in FSU with the 90% of goyim are there with huge budgets to "hitch" "Millions" of goyim, so too, it is motzi shem rah for you to make this assertion regarding Rabbi Bakst,

    2)What is also said: that the ballistic way with which you attack Rabbi Bakst for something that is done by so many others. and WE NEVER HEARD YOU GO BALLISTIC AT THEM SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE AN AXE TO GRIND AT BEST AND YOU HVE A MOTZI SHEKER AGENDA HERE!

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  39. LLC (vekol hashemos shekoreh atamoy)

    "Roni now find another red herring, Chabbad!. However Chabbad are realy involved in keiruv even when there are no gentiles involved while the EJF primary line of business is conversions."

    and so IS RABBI BAKST! FOR YOU TO ALLOW AND INFER THAT RABBI BAKST IS INVOLVED IN GERUT MOR THAN CHABAD IS A MOTZI SHEKER. Just because he aligned with Rabbi Tropper in a certain kiruv expedition does not give you a right to besmirch Rabbi Bakst the way you did!

    While Rabbi Bakst may have found a benefactor for this activitity, so have other kiruv organizations like chabad who have many donors like TK. that does not allow you to shower on him the tzooh rossechet that you have engaged in at the 10 days f repentance!

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  40. "In any case, Ukraine and Russia and most of the former USSR are basically Chabad zones and it's like poaching in forbidden fields".

    Here you gave yourself away! This is the ture reason for your besmiching Rabbi Bakst!

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  41. "Maybe Baksht knew how to keep the peace with the Chabad people, but guaranteed that Tropper will incite hate and fighting with them as we"

    Maybe you stole from me 10 millions dollars ! maybe you are the one inciting with ful loads of sheker aginst Rabbi Bakst without any shred of evidence with you incitement about him?

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  42. "a krumme back to front "heter" "justifying" proselytizations and conversions by Tropper and EJF by poster Roni/Tropper right here and now"

    Mr krummer, you who cannot begin to show me a source of for "issur" of prosetyzing; you are the one who mde up the krumme heter for bomzer's fake conversions here and now! have no standing on this issue whatsoever except that you sew seeds of hate and sheker against inncoent people like Rabbi Bakst!

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  43. "from LITVISH gedolim that it's perfectly ok to set up shop in the fardorbenne Ukraine with all the shiksas and shkotzimlach starving, homeless, needing clothing and schooling and now finding out"

    HE has hakomos from his kgedolim to do kiruv to jews as he does and to do halachik conversions when necessary,as opposed to your freinds who are busy finding new propsects of goyim for $$$money

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  44. "and he and Baksht should do chesbon hanefesh during the Aseres Yemei Teshuva, do the the honest thing and either come up with the required written haskomas or minimal divrei brocha from a number of gedolim that it's now perfectly ok to go out and proselytize to the shekotzim and shiksas in the Ukraine or anywhere in the"

    Motsi sheker vedibah! Rabbi Bakst is not involved protsetyinzg to shiktzas that you and your friends are involved at and enabling fake conversions to happen1

    He is involved in arranging jews to come back to yiddishkeyt! If there is a need for a halachik conversion he arranges them according to shulchan aruch!

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  45. "In the USA or Israel Tropper and Baksht couldn't do it because the Conservative and Reform and secular Jewish establishments would throw them out".

    In fact Rabbi Tropper is involved in mekarev many jews in the Usa and stopping many of them from intemarrying in his prearranged shabbatonim!

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  46. When you RAP will report on your colleagues and critique, we will know that is an ounceof truth in ocean of lies that you dwell in, in the meantime drown in your world of sheker!

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  47. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM

    Roni/Tropper is now resorting to shooting off many mini posts that carry the same hysteria. He cannot debate calmly and rationally.

    He has to scream and yell and attack instead of clearly and logically keeping a sane dicussion going without resorting to ad hominem attacks again and to even wishing that people he disagrees should "drown" while no one wishes him any ill, just questions for a man and an organization like Tropper and EJF who blast their opinions and infomercials all over the Jewish Orthodox media.

    People pay good money to buy The Jewish Press, Hamodia, Yated, and Mishpacha every week and try to look over almost all the main headlines, and without fail there are always "rabbi Tropper did this great thing and Rabbi Tropper did that even greater thing" and "EJF is so great and EJF is so wonderful" in many of those publications, yet Roni/Tropper expects that people should sit back, not think, not have brains, and say nothing.

    This is not Tropperland, it's the 21st century and people are free to think and decide for themselves in this the Information Age and not rely on what Tropper says is "True" or what very expensive hired EJF spinmeisters send out as "press releases" and planted infomercials by the likes of hired gun Menachem Lubinsky (who is now getting to speak like abig macher at Tropper's/EJF's events, why, are there a shoratge of good rabbi speakers?) or Dennis Rapps at the JP who gets lots of free perks and lunches from EJF as anyone at the JP knows.

    So Roni/Troppre has caniptions and apoplexy when anyone asks questions or thinks aloud in a resonable and rational manner, that is what any decently educated high school or college student would be expected to do in an English assigment of critical reading, but to poster Roni/Tropper who is not used to this, he takes it all personally and deems it to be all sorts of "heresy" and "loshon hora" just as any fanatic would react.

    It's a wonder to think that Tropper imagines he will get far with the secular world this way.

    Maybe he got away with brainwashing and yelling at a few guys at his yeshiva every year in times past, but he can forget about brainwashing and yelling at the entire Jewish world, even if he hires every last publicity company and expert on influencing public opinion to do so to try and perform all the stunts and tricks in the books, it won't help. because at the edn of the day there will still be people with brains, who think and ask relevant questions.

    Rather than screaming at other posters who disagree with you and killing the messenger because you hate the message, just try sticking to the dicussions at hand and you will be respected and listened to.

    The world is an open field now, with the Internet and with computers in every person's life, so if Tropper was trying to live like a quiet private citizen in Monsey like he used to a long, long time ago (like never maybe), but let's say he was once living under the radar of the world before he got the crazy idea to have press relases about his wonderful self in the Jewish papers almost every week, then no one would know who he was (well of course some big rabbanim would still know him) and no one would bother him, but it is he that has adopted an in your face publicity style and a "straight talk" strategy for his push to keep EJF on life support. ...

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  48. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM

    Tropper cannot now come here via poster "Roni" and try to raise bedlam that people are READING and ANALYZING what HE HIMSELF and his publicity hirelings are saying, and then people start asking the questions and trying to tie together the puzzles of why Rabbi Baksht needs Rabbi Tropper in Odessa?

    Isn't there enough to do in New York state, or in the USA that Tropper must now head for the former USSR? as if giving an answer to that old Yiddish quip, "Vi azoy brengt men di katz ibber di vasser?" ("How does one move the cat over the water?") meant as a question to solve a quandary of transporting one object over a dificult terrain to get to an objective and in this case one answer to that riddle is, "it's easy, just get Rabbi Tropper and EJF involved and he will come even to Odessa with his EJF flying circus in tow, to solve all your outreach, educational, financial and conversion headaches" like a magic man selling snake cures that will be shown to be fakes soon enough. Just hope that the "cure" is not worse than the "illness".

    Oh, the really serious and alarming note from all of Roni's mini posts is that Tropper and EJF really intend to go to war with Chabad in the former USSR of all places.

    Good luck with that one, it will not be pretty to see what will happen when the Lubavitcher "Cossacks" put Tropper and EJF in their sights and mount their charges against him.

    One can only conclude that Tropper is really desperate by now, and instead of behaving like a calm and reasonbale rabbi and going home for a sweet new year of retirement in his home in Monsey to focus on teaching his students in his yeshiva (does he still have one, and are there any students left there with all of Tropper's chronic globetrotting?), instead he is resorting to that dangerous, old and tired strategy of last resort (like Japan's use of the Kamikazes when they knew they'd lost the war, or Germany resorting to V1 and V2 rockets aimed at England when they too knew that they had lost, which only incited the USA and the UK to fight harder against Japan and German until they were totally vanquished with unconditional surrender the only option left), give it all you've got and fire at will at all your enemies because you are going down and you have nothing to lose.

    Pathetic that it has to this and what a waste of all the tens of millions of good dollars that Tom Kaplan and his nephew had pumped into Tropper that went down the toilets of the now near-defunct EJF extravaganza that is looking more and more like a goses day by day, as all of Roni's obsessive protests bordering on dementia seem to be showing and proving openly.

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  49. So much for politer discourse in the new year.

    in the meantime drown in your world of sheker! That a Jew should ever say such a thing to another Jew is horrendous. That it should happen during the ten days...

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  51. Just as a point of observation. When Rav Shach decided to take on Chabad, they were half the size they are now. Despite having the weight of the Litvak world behind him, it nearly ruined his reputation. Chabad is probably the most easily underestimated movement within Orthodox Judaism today.

    However for funding, they have more movie-stars lining up behind them than the Kabbalah center, and their PR is second to none.

    If Tropper really wants to pick a fight with them, what is written on this blog will make very little difference. It will be what is whispered in every Chabad House from Jerusalem, to New York, to Beijing that will bring him down.

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  52. Tropper used to work with Chabbad Rabbi Shlomo Zarchi of San Francisco who provided him with intermarried couples. I think they had falling out, probably Tropper just scared the hell out of them with his frumkeit chosid shote chumras and his controlling behavior.

    Maybe they heard about Tropper tendency to revoke conversions if the convert dares to disobey him, forget to wear her sheitel or wants to go to college.

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  53. " clearly and logically keeping a sane dicussion going without resorting to ad hominem attacks again and to even wishing that people he disagrees should "drown"":

    1) there is nothing "Rational" and "logical" in your hateful rantings against one man and anyone who appears with him!

    2) your posts are filled with ad hominem attacks!

    3) There was wish for you to "drown" physically (as your contant distortions and chollents); but this was and is a statement of FACT THat you are "Drowning" figuratively in your sheker, since there is no ounce of truth you cannot escape from it. A big miracle must happen for you to extricate yourself from your position!

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  54. "just questions for a man and an organization like Tropper and EJF who blast their opinions and infomercials all over the Jewish Orthodox media"

    You don't "question"; you LYNCH AND MALIGN WITH False and SHEKER!.

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  55. "So Roni/Troppre has caniptions and apoplexy when anyone asks questions"

    yOU DON'T ASK QUESTIONS; YOU defame with false hoods!

    "or thinks aloud in a resonable and rational manner,"


    tHERE IS nothing reasonable about stateing LIES AND FALSEHOODS about "hitching millions" (where there is NO SHRED OF TRUTH TO THIS BOMBASTIC LIE and to malign Rabbi Bakst who lives in Odessa and is MEKAREV JEWS AND YOU MALIGN THAT HE IS OTU TO "HITCH MILLIONS" YOU LIE!

    " that is what any decently educated high school or college student would be expected to do in an English assigment of critical reading, but to poster Roni/Tropper who is not used to this, he takes it all personally and deems it to be all sorts of "heresy" and "loshon hora" just as any fanatic would react.":

    "critical reading" does not entail IN LYING! AND SAYING THAT RABBI BAKST IS ENGAGTED IN "HITCHING MILLIONS OF GOYIM"! THAT YOU MALICIOULSY STATED AS FACT!

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  56. Rap,

    I pray that you do teshuva, becuase if not, you will die with a malady of jealousy, becuse Rav Tropper is going to contniue to do GOOD WORK and his press realeases will result in your irrational attacks. Go to a doctor for a pill to help you in Jupiter to cope with your TropperPhobia!

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  59. "One can only conclude that Tropper is really desperate by now, and instead of behaving like a calm and reasonbale rabbi and going home"

    It would rather be a great thing for you to learn from him! Despite your and other liars and other enemies of him defaming him, he nevertheless actually does behave like a calm and reasonable rabbi instead of the rabble rouser that typfies your whole being!

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  60. "in the meantime drown in your world of sheker! That a Jew should ever say such a thing to another Jew is horrendous. That it should happen during the ten days".

    Whatever a nd whoever you are: there is nothing "polite" and it is actually an GREAT AVERA OF MOTZI SHEKER VEDIBOH FOR YOU TO ALLOW THE VICIOS SHEKER AGAINST A PERSON LIKE RABBI BAKST JUST BECAUSE HIS NAME APPEARED WITH RABBI TROPPER IN APROGRAM TO TELL JEWISH YOUNGSTERS TO STOP INTERMARRYING!

    AND YOU DID THIS ON ASSERET YEMEY TESHUVA! AND YOU HAVE NOT YET MADE ANY RETRACTION OF THIS TERRIBLE AVERA OF MOTZI SHEKER OF A GOOD PERSON BERABIM!

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  61. "Tropper really wants to pick a fight with them, what is written on this blog will make very little difference. It will be what is whispered in every Chabad House from Jerusalem, to New York, to Beijing that will bring him down"

    THE KRUMKEYT IN THIS BLOG JUST GROWS FROM DAY TO DAY! Who said tha tropper is fighting with chabad? What was said that if you criticize Rabbi Bakst with the sheker that he hitches millions you should criticize chabad for the same!

    Tropper is not into fighting mode today! He is actually doing so much positive work that he makes you sick of jealousy for his good work!

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  62. Dt,

    I hope that after some easy interospection you will realize that you caused a terrbile hotzooat sheker against a good yid like RAbbi Bakst. The only way to fix it is by you personally asking mechila from him PUBLICLY and writing publicly that you erred!

    (instead for you to write about the fake conversions performed by the bomzer clan in THE UKRAINE you allow such hyperbolic allegations against a good man lik Rabbi Bakst).

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  64. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM

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  65. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 24, 2009 at 12:25 PM

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  66. Roni,

    If you would calm down for just two seconds, you would quickly realize two things.

    1) This is not my blog, so I allowed nothing during the 10 days.

    2) I never said that R'Tropper was picking a fight with someone. I was simply making an observation based on RAP's statements, that he would be very foolish to do so.

    Quite honestly your lack of civility amazes me. But what amazes me more is that you are so convinced that you and R'Tropper are being attacked that you cannot let even an innocent observation pass, without reading into it what was never there.

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  70. Recipients and PublicitySeptember 24, 2009 at 6:40 PM

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  72. Tropper protest too much when someone mentions r' Bakst so we should be suspicious of what going on , who is feeding who and cui bono.

    First we have to ask r’ Bakst if he knows what he is getting into by aligning with Tropper. Does he know that Tropper is engaging in active proselytization ? , Does he knows that Tropper alienated most of the Modern Orthodox rabbis (even though their leader r’ Basil Herring still treats him like Tropper pays his salary), does he know that Tropper revokes conversions on whim? , does he know that Tropper is very vindictive and controlling ?

    What Is happening is that Tropper needs an infrastructure for his conversion campaigns he cannot just go to a foreign country and put his shticks, he needs someone who knows the country, who know the people and can provide him with victims. So r' Baksht who has shortfall of 3 millions dollars meets Tropper who needs an infrastructure and supply of intermarried couples and Boom! Mazal Tov, Od yishma beharey yehude.

    We can Hope r’ Baksht will realize soon that getting money from Tropper comes with strings attached (a lot of them) and some of Tropper shmuts and controversies will spill on him, Maybe he will decide to live with the 3 millions dollars shortage or he will find another benefactor

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  78. Roni I completely agree with your complaint. If you can figure out a way that that issue can be discussed without my concerns than I am quite open.

    For example, why aren't you or Rabbi Trooper publishing similarly worded descriptions on his two blogs? Why do you feel it is more appropriate to vent your anger and concern on my blog? Why don't you start a new blog devoted to the topic - it takes about 15 minutes to set up a free blog. Besides R Tropper has access to some powerful PR organizations. Why isn't he using them to fight the same fight that you are fighting on my blog? Maybe you think you will be killing two problems with one stone? I am not interested in serving as a korbon for your interests.

    You repeated say that it is important to publicize false conversions and naming names - but Rabbi Tropper doesn't do any such thing - nor do you except on my blog.

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  79. Dt,

    1) I'M NOT RAV TROPER AND NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS WAY OF CHOOSING TO PRESENT HIMSELF,

    2) I'M NOT INTERESTED AT THIS POINT TO UPKEEP AND MAINTAIN MY OWN BLOG. AS IT IS MY PARTICIPATION IN THIS AND OTHERS (ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY DO NOT EXIST IN ANOTHER EMPHASIS ON HOW TO FIGHT THE ISSUE VDAL)COSTS TOO MUCH BITTUL TORAH AND STOPPING OTHER IMPORTANTMATTERS,

    3) YET, AS AN OBSERVANT JEW, WHO FOLLOWS SHULCHAN ORUCH IT BEHOOVES *YOU* WHEN PUTTING OUT MUSSAR AT OTHERS, TO ENSURE THAT YOU ARE NOT A SHUTAF TO SHEKER VEHOTZAAT DIBOH!
    MY PARTICIPATION HERE IN THIS FORM IS TO PROTEST YOUR LACK OF INTEGRITY WHEN YOU COME SOUNDING HOLIER THAN THOU IN ONE HAND AND YET PART OF YOUR BLOG CONTAINS THE MOST VENOMOUS SLANDER AT PEOPLE AND AT THE SAME TIME THE PEOPLE WHO DO SO HAVE THE AGENDA OF TAKING VENGENACE OF A PERSON WHO STOPPED OR MINIMIZED THE MONEY VENTURES AND ESCAPADES. BUT THAT DOES NOT EXEMPT YOU FROM BEING A PARTNER TO THIS VILE CRIME. LEMAALOH YOU ARE JUST AS RESPONSIBLE AS THEM!

    4) AND THIS IS THE REASON i PARTICIPATE IN THIS FORM (FOR INOTHER AREAS I ACCOMPLSIHED IN DIFFERNT FORMS) IN THIS BLOG, TO UNDO THE INJUSTICE OF SHEKER AND DIBOH THAT YOU ALLOW.

    5) IN OTHER WORDS: WHEN A PERSON DOES NOT DO THIS JOB, MEILOH; I'M NOT HERE TO FIX ALL THE ILLS OF THE WORLD, WHEN A PERSON ADDRESSES SOME GOOD ISSUES, VEITER MAH TOV UMAH NAIM; BUT WHEN APERSON USES A VENOMOUS STICK THROUGH RESHOIM (THAT YOU HAVE AROUND HERE WHOEVER IS THE "BAAL" HANAME) AND HE PERFORMS MAASSEH ZIMRI ATTACKING SOMETHING THAT HE DESCRIBES AS WRONG (WHEN IT IS NOT THAT WRONG) AND INSTEAD HE COVERS THE REAL ILLNESS AND CORRUPTION HE ATTEMPTS TO BE LIKE PINCHOS WHEN DOES LIKE ZIMRI! THAT DESEFES A SPECIAL ATTENTION!

    BANNING AND CENSORING ME AND ALLOWING RAP AND OTHER NAMES TO ROAM LIKE SNAKES AGAINST A PERSON AND LEGITIMZING A SHGETS MARRYINNG AND SHIKSSAH AND ATTEMTPING TO BE TZADIK WON'T ERASE IN BEIS DIN SHEL MAALOH ALL YOUR SHENINANGINAGS ESPECIALLY COMIBNG NOW FROM A TIME HASHEM IS SHOFET WITH THE EMESS STICK!

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