Sunday, March 23, 2014

Yosef Kolko pidyon shvuyim fund in Lakewood


Reb Daniel,

I'm sorry to report, that apparently your blog is not widely read in Lakewood...

Even after you published that the פדיון שבוים is for Kolko, the sign is still up in two shuls that I visited over Shabbos!?!

I'm not sure what should be done next, but there is one thing I'm sure about. If these signs are allowed to linger for a while, the oilam will get used to seeing them. After a few weeks they will subtly add Kolkos name, thereby establishing that "he didn't commit a crime" as the communities conclusion!!! (Nobody came to empty the boxes, which can be attributed to incompetence. I'm afraid however, that they are leaving them out there for the PR campaign, which is far more valuable in the long run then the few dollars in the box.)


  1. Do they take credit cards? Is there a website I can donate from?

  2. Is there a reason you have posted this without any accompanying comment? Is this post an endorsement on your part? What exactly is the point of this post on your blog?

    1. For everyone else it is obvious. No I am not endorsing it. It is important for people to be aware of what they are giving money for.

    2. In the interest of those who may encounter this post via Google Search, you should probably post links to other posts about Kolko's guilt and admission.

  3. Don't see Kolko's name on this. Maybe its for Weinstein?

  4. Is this a Purim joke?

  5. How do you know that Lakewood's Satmar Dayan is being goyveh for Kolko? Kolko is not the only bochur in jail. There is also Mutterperl & many others.

  6. The cell phone number given on the bottom of ad belongs to Zalman Kolko, Yosef Aaron's farther.
    lt looks like a cell phone number....
    It's the number "THE LAKEWOOD LIST" has for Zalman & Miriam Kolko!!!

  7. Satmar dayan(Klein): was/is very active defending Kolko. Considered a nutjob by all, nonetheless, he's respected by many. Rosh Yeshiva's of BMG work together with him on various projects. He also has a hechsher. ( Who said it's not a problem to be mechabeid idiots?!?!?)

    1. I know no one who considers the Satmar dayan a nutjob or an idiot. It is correct that he is respected by many.

      Even given the dayan's misguided efforts to free Kolko, this blog should not be in the business of facilitating motzie shem rah such as this.

    2. JS...

      You exposed yourself as an outright shameless liar with this sentence...
      "I know no one who considers the Satmar dayan a nutjob or an idiot."

      You also display profoundly dangerous and misguided lack of moral judgment with this line...
      "Even given the dayan's misguided efforts to free Kolko, this blog should not be in the business of facilitating motzie shem rah such as this."


      Your moral indignation should be directed to the "Respected" dayan that he should stop being motzie Shem rah, period.

    3. Whoa. You need to learn some deep breathing exercises.

    4. Oh so now it's all a JOKE JS?!?!

      Anyone with a drop of יראת שמים OR a "smeck" of morality should be seething!!!

      This is not the time to "take a deep breath and calm down", on the contrary, this calls for OUTRAGE!!!

  8. It is really really wacky.

    The fact that they can get away with this so soon after the sentencing, is a major indictment.

  9. The silver lining is that even they understood that if their prospective donors would know which case they are collecting for, they wouldn't give. So they kept it a secret!!!

    I witnessed that first hand. After being informed that it's for Kolko, someone in Shul immediately took out the money he put in yesterday!!!

    1. You're wrong. People are giving generously even with knowing it is for Kolko.

    2. I don't know one such person.

      If there is even one, I'm embarrassed as a Lakewood resident, and horrified as a religious Jew.

  10. Couple of halachick questions....

    -Is one allowed to take back money he put in their "צדקה" box? If yes can he keep the money, or it must go to a worthy cause?

    -Were the authors signers etc. of this campaign עובר גניבת דעת?!?! They know full well they are deceiving people....

    What should an online do with such a box full of money? Let them pick it up??

    1. If they conceal the name because they suspect that some people wouldn't give if they knew, it isn't only Genaivas Daas, but it is also probably Genaivas Mamon.

      They probably are Moreh Heter that even though the donor wouldn't give, still since WE know better, and if the donor would know what we know, he WOULD willingly give, therefore it is considered as though he gives it full willingly.

  11. 1. Is Kolko a "bachur?"

    2. Seems to me that caveat emptor applies here. The sign does not identify the "innocent bachur." That means either (a) you trust the rabbi listed on the sign to tell you the truth or (b) you ask who the "innocent bachur" is. If you do neither and donate, then shame on you, and don't ask for your money back.

  12. I love how the chosen picture implies that this is a little kid, or perhaps a naive teen full of innocence.

    Zev Steinhardt

  13. Kolko is a bachur. He never married.

    The poster is geneivas daas unless the man who printed it can be credited with believing Yosef Kolko is innocent.

  14. I think the issue is more about religious fundamentalists who view EVERY case of cooperating with authorities as mesirah and every frum yid in jail as a case of pidyon shvuyim. Just because someone dresses in black and white doesn't make it so.

  15. i am not from lakewood.
    heres my q. to lakewooders.
    Being that this sign has no signatures of even a few lakewood rabanim [just the name of one rav's as an address...] Would you still donate to it ?????


    One of several examples of the Lakewood Satmar dayan's poor judgement and/or corruption when it comes to kashrus

  17. Why do you need the signature of a' Godol' ? Did you ask a 'Godol' what to eat for breakfast today?
    Decide for yourself, do I wish to help someone find a fault with the trial and possibly reduce his sentence or even get freed by the justice system , or No I will stop helping him because he was convicted by the Judge So for sure he is guilty Al pi let him Rot in Prison.

  18. Although the satmar dayon is interesting in his avodas hashem. Most people do not consider him a nut job. Politicly he does go to the extreme many times. Although by now 99.9% of lakewood thinks kolko is guilty of something. Whether it may be statutory rape or molestation. The satmar dayan does not care all he cares about is the guy is betzar and so is the rest of the family. The victims and family are mosrim as kolko was no longer a threat by the time the trial came.

    1. "kolko was no longer a threat by the time the trial came".
      WHY NOT??

  19. The satmar dayan never said anything about being a threat during his incarceration or not. Satmat dayan writes that the bachur is innocent. How he knows he is innocent is a big fat lie, because he was not there. He should say that one should not beleive it. But to outright say he is innocent makes the dayan un trust worthy. As it is his hechsherim are not up to par.

  20. Old Lakewooder

    You're asserting he's not considered a nut-job, only "interesting"?? Well, no use in arguing over little differences....

    You say...

    "kolko was no longer a threat by the time the trial came".


    He showed no remorse, and his supporters are putting up signs that he didn't commit a crime!! Had he not been out of the way, he would be prowling our streets going after our children!!!

    You also wrote...

    "The victims and family are mosrim"

    That sounds like you, old Lakewooder, think that!?!


    You and Klein don't care about real halachah, you know the shulchan Baruch type, but REAL Lakewooders do!!!

    First if all, the victims father is a massive Talmud Chachom. Secondly, they got psakim from virtually all leading Poskim.

    And Klein's opinion is worthless.

  21. I said in the eyes of klien . Even if kolko is sick .he is no longer a threat hence we can keep him on the street. And anyone who puts him away is s moser/rosha . I did not say I agree . I happen to believe if jail is the only way to garantee that he stays away from kids . Than jail is the way to go.

  22. The Moshiach TimesMarch 20, 2014 at 5:52 PM

    @old lakewooder zoken uksil

    hmmm... kolko was no longer a threat

    Neither is a sorer umoireh that even has yet never robbed or killed anyone. When R' H' and his family that were chased out of town bebizoyon oyom venoiro and sharui betzaar, were the dayonim also up in arms and feel their pain. V'ein lekol ele hoasukim bemaaseh ta'atuim mechila oilomis, they then all go around like a chicken without a head from whence all these tragedies come from. Young Mothers right after giving birth Rachmana litslan and babies dying left and right, young children, bochurim and what not expire be'erev shabbas vegam kol she'ar yemos hashonoh, how much more can we take, oy vey gevald gevald! Rubo kekulo batei dinim are corrupted, rotten to the core, v'ein poitse pe umetsaftsef, the webermans, kolkos, halperns, berlands, false kol kore's, weinsteins, motsi shem ra al hanirdaf umeyakrim es haroidef together with their goon squads, intimidating, harrassing and protecting the perpetrators, Vehirshiu es haTsadik Vehitsdiki es horosho, mehapech beshulchon of kellners to YSV orrur bml's asher korcho baderech, tsadik nechlats miyad rosho oyev nitan tachas nafshoi, being busy with the cameras that should be protecting the public of who has first shot at it before the authorities can have a look at it, in the mean time the leibys are ..... chas milhazkir. If only the Shomrei shimirim would have done according to the TORA what they were supposed to do stopping the RODEF with a butcher knife in his yedayim yedei eisov after yidishe neshomelech first time around and NOT selling it out and meimir vekore shem kivyochol as 'Mesira' veshaar minei shkorim, who knows ma yulad yom.

    Shoimi shomayim ! Even mikir tizak ad lev hashamayim ubidmo'os sholish WONDERING, CLAPPING KAF EL KAF, HAZOS NAOMI? Vatehom kol ho'ir.

    What a sad state of affairs is yet a compliment. Then come the Strongmen Epsteins and the Wolmarks whipping around people with cattle prods left and right manufacturing gitin meusim, machshil es beis yisroel with eishes ish, bringing into this world mamzeirim deorayso for 100K a shot shuolim torfim umeratschim mechablim bakromim with the blessing of the big guys, maachilm neveilos utreifos to the unsuspecting wholsale and retail. Does it bother any so called dayan or those chovshei itstala de'ra bonon' the chilul hashem berabim and the tsaar hashchina kivyachol it caused, or only I-phones and the Internet is the problem that bothers the halperns and the oisfei asifim (tartei mashma) to Giant Stadiums. Vezois rak miktsas shvochoi befonov.

    Have you no shame? Have you no decency? Is it a wonder why people lose faith in emunas chachomim. My dear, you are looking for the chomets in all the wrong places. Time to clean house from rock bottom to all the way to the top and mend your ways as a hatsoleh porte lekabel pnei Moshiach tsidkenu.

    The Moshiach Times

  23. Its all OK. You send in you check. If you don't think it should go to Kolko Let go to Weberman or weingarten or any other "PIDYON SHVUYIM" case. Just send the Money.

  24. what is Rabbi Gavriel Finkel involvement on this issue ?

  25. Moshiach times. I feel yur pain . I can't stand the curroption either. However I don't let it get to me. What the establishment did to the s family is beyond the pail. Although I had many friends who believed that this did not have to get to court .they all symposised with s family .

    1. old lakewooder: YOUR. CORRUPTION. beyond the PALE. SYMPATHIZED.


  26. Old Lakewooder

    My experience is similar, every single person I speak to in and around Lakewood agrees with the family. They are also troubled by the misinformation they were fed. Two very important facts were covered up, that he admitted to independent adults, and that The family had the full backing of Gedolei haposkim....

    However, this is all in private...

    There has still not been a public retraction AND apology from all those that signed and schemed against a family that was looking out for OUR children!?!?

    AND, there is no public outcry that these people should do the right and decent thing, and right a terrible wrong...

    Besides the fact that, that's what torah Jews are supposed to do!!

  27. don't understand why you side with s I know him and family i don't trust them if you live in Lakewood 20 years like me you would know how many fake molesters there are presidental is still suffering with it the tzaros there no one should know according to salomon and shachar everyone is one

  28. Tsa'akas Hadal shel Kivsei hoRosh, Please help me and our children. I can't take this anymore!March 23, 2014 at 8:35 PM

    Lehevei yodua bitfutsos Yisroel:

    This guy kept on changing his version every day like the wishing with a dandelion. He admitted his crime to a mandated reporter, to Rabonim and to many others, had due process, and dina demalchuse dina prevails as according to the Rash'ba and according to the ne'emonei Poskei haDor of Toras Moishe. He got what he well deserved only not enough. For such rodfim, you must throw away the key and let him rot in jail. This is not a case of pidyon shvuyim having someone abducted unlawfully and held for a ransom, but a mazik uchoivel birshus horabim ubirshus hayochid ubechol mekomos sheheim Rodef umezanev achrei yaldei yisroel of the asher 'Kolko baDerech' type and therefore, rightfullly chovush bebeis hoassirim to protect the public at large. Should you give one red cent towards this cause, it is noisen yad lapoishim, umachzik biyedei oivrei aveirah, umerim yad baToras Moshe. This pega can never be healed as history proves, and it is incumbent al kol echod ve'echod to give over to the authorities before he attacks again, vechol hakodem zocho. It is only the dor ikesh ufsaltol type inflicted with the Ostrich Syndrome that protect the webermans veanshei sdom va'amoiroh, kol tsarua vechol zov lemineihem , releasing such pironiyois on the unsuspected, veasidim liten olov es hadin. These sorrerim ubnei avlo need to ask mechila befumby velifnei kol from the Talmid Chochom and his family that they chased out of town adding petsa al petsa vechet al pesha of such grandiose proportions. This is bechinas metame tehorim umetaher es hatmeiim. Such posters only add salt to the bleeding wounds while making a mockery of Toras Moshe. What kind of lesson is this giving to the young generation? Huh? A chote venisker umachti keYrovom ben nevot, bereish gli, ubishe'at nefesh and going on as if business as usual. We just lost nebach another three year old child over Shabbos, how much more blood do we need to soak up the earth with before you start to protect our children? Chizru bachem, umaher.

    1. You can use Hebrew characters if you want.

  29. When they started rai$ing funds for rubashkin, they wrre careful tonotspecify rubashkin only. When called on it, they said A. Legal reasons --you cant say its for him only and B. The money wull go to other shvuyim (personally, i think its for the fundraisers's pocket.)

    The same here. Pidyon shvuyim is a good moneymaker, esp in lakewood.

    MiMedinat HaYam

  30. I:m not taking a position on the kolko case itself. Actually, I am, but its pretty obvious the lakwood leadership not only abandoned him, they had him plead against his personal interest, for their own interests. Now they see his case is lucrative for them, and they can say theyre still helping him.

    MiMedinat HaYam

    1. this is being done by the satmar dayan not by the "lakewood leadership" that was involved in the case. Rabbi Klein had no connection to the case and certainly is not profitting on this fundraising. he is only guilty of naivete. you're either a wack-o conspiracy theorist or just a plain jerk. you would have been better of "not taking a position".

  31. Please do not abuse Pidyon ShvuyimMarch 24, 2014 at 6:27 PM

    A general comment:

    The concept of Pidyon Shvuyim is one that evokes tremendous generosity in the average Yid, and for good reason. However, it is also one of most easily abused terms, being the label for all sorts of missions that are more criminal in nature than the problem that started it all.

    Someone guilty of a crime, such as molestation, is a public menace, and as a metza'er es hatzibbur is liable for whatever the secular goverments are ready to impose. That is clear in Shulchan Aruch. To abuse the precious mitzvah of Pidyon Shvuyim to gain freedom for a public menace is itself criminal.

    Likewise, there are others who are incarcerated for having been found clearly guilty of various horrific crimes. One might feel bad for their families who are themselves innocent. But to try to spring these criminals under the fictional guise of Pidyon Shvuyim is a disgrace to this great mitzvah.

    Having noted that, Kolko was convicted fair and square. There was solid evidence plus repeated confessions. He needs to be locked away from the community for a very long time. Pidyon Shvuyim should not be abused and misapplied to him.

    1. Wrong!Goyesh Courts do not contitute a true psak al pi toras Hashem !
      Dont get carried away!!

    2. Ok, so which bais din was enforcing a psak al pi Torah that was going to keep this danger to society away from more innocent victims? No one is saying that he got proper justice al pi Torah, but he needed to be kept away, and, for lack of the proper authorities on our end, this was the only way to do it. Maybe not the only way--others might have used his head for batting practice.

    3. "Don't pasken Dinei Nifashos", eh?

      -Allowing a confessed molester to roam our schools, camps, and streets-NOT Dinei Nifashos.

      -Being rodeif and Mevazeh a family that has sacrificed fame and fortune for the safeguard of our children-NOT Dinei Nifashos.


      the jail sentence for a confessed molester, that has turned down COUNTLESS offers and plea deals for little or no jail time- DINEI NEFASHOS?!?

    4. Dont Pasken dinei Nefashos!March 25, 2014 at 8:25 PM

      Yes Unfortunately according to the Torah you will need 23 Erudite Scholars With Semicha( true semicha) in order to pasken dinei nifashos
      Let us not get carried away by the 'Shuk lowest common denominator mentality of the Gas' , But think rationally and with torah basis, He will never be a threat in this GilGul. that is a Fact .
      He is no longer a rodef and besides there are so many better ways to shame someone to no longer be a threat.
      Lets Stop thinking like Goyim!
      Rather think how to rehabilitate save your brother., It could be you, And we all know he who screams the loudest , needs bedikah ! Ahem!

    5. Dont Pasken dinei Nefashos!March 25, 2014 at 8:25 PM,

      Please explain , what dinei nefashos we are talking about here ? He is not on death row.

      Would you also say that you can't turn to the secular police and courts for the killer of Leiby Kletzky because we don't have a Beis Din of Semuchim ?

    6. Pasken dinei Nefashos big time, and howMarch 25, 2014 at 10:37 PM

      my dear Dont,

      Even bizman sheBeis HaMikdash hoyo kayem, a Rodef did not call for a beis din, let alone 23. If you see him chasing another Jew, lo Taamod al Dam reacha, my friend. See the mishna HaRodef achar hazochor! This is NOT Shuk mentality, this is Hamefureshes Batorah Haksuvo, and the heilige Mishnah. You can swear till tomorrow, in your chayay or Paroh's chayay, or anybody eleses chayay, ayayayay. Chamirei skanta meisurei, and THAT is what you call a fact, even when a sofek Rodef, in this Gilgul and for that matter all Gilgulim ad sof kol hadoiros. "Shame" has NOT been a deterrent, and there is no known rehabilitation for such, as of today, yesterday or tomorrow, not for the webermans, bml's, kolkos, or for any other Kalikeh Kolko baDerech's, not even for boneini ze hu sorrer umoireh. Have you not heard of the rishon HoRashb'a? He said when such Rodfim when handed over to Dinei DeMalchuse, it is dealt with in any and all aspects as the Law of the Land that prevails! This is the thought of R'Elyashiv, R' C. Kanievsky, BeDatz Haedah, a Rodef hamefureshes baTorah. It doesn't much matter if it's you or even weberman that screams the loudest in the name of the vaad haznus, A Rodef is a Rodef is a Rodef. Once a Rodef achar hazochor is forever a Rodef achar hazochor ve'ein tsorich bedika achrov, with one exception. And that is sheyochol lehatzil bechod me'eivorov with bulls eye and disarm him of his klei zayin, if you get my drift. You now can clear your throat doubly so, Ahem! Ahem! Good riddens. Kappish

    7. Dont Pasken Dinei Nifashos!March 26, 2014 at 1:08 AM

      You are completely wild and insane these people the day there possibility
      of publicity came out they all ceased being a threat
      Besides a rodef achar zochor is only during that running and if he stops you cannot kill him

      there are so many ways we can put our heads together to stop those bad people from touching where the/who they shouldn't
      but in no way is touching a rodef according to hashems torah
      Unfortunately to days people have been brought up to think like goyim and if the goyim give a long sentence to touching someone under 18 so that's called a Rodef?
      According to torah 13 years old is a godol for all matters and bais din would proceed in a ordinary manner did he make a full avairah/sekilah? what did he do? why touching so that would be Boshes ! Money!
      embarrassment 700 dollars for a young boy of 14 !
      Why don't you follow the torah Why do you follow the goyisher daas /
      When did kolko etc. do anything al pi torah to get such punishment ?
      touching is Boshes! maybe bais din will fine him to get him to stop
      Don't think like a Goy !There is no place in any Mishnah that talks about molesting.and where it is considered a capital crime in torah eyes
      Stop taking your Hashkofa from the newspaper and radio.
      He is long not a rodeph for the past 5 years already What you want REVENGE!?......
      Beware of those who scream the Loudest: Kul Hapoisel Bimoomoi Poisel!

    8. you are an am haaretz! Please read the psakim in Yeshurun 15 by gedolim regarding this matter and you will discover that they disagree with you.

      I have also cited the relevant psakim on this blog or you can buy my books where the sources are cited and translated.

    9. Heiche dami Bas Haya'ano ( Ostrich beLa"az )March 26, 2014 at 4:28 AM

      @ Dont

      Johnny come late, where were you when halpern and weberman needed you most. By the time the women reported chaim to the authorities he already had been put to shame, relieved of his official posts from on top of the world, seceded from lecturing eishes ish relaxation techniques through bedika shmates at 2:00 AM in his Sholem Bayis yichud shtibel, methods of which he had picked up from other ra bonim. By that time he was no more a threat, why then did the Kangaroo court need to convene and gove edus from 32 women? Your sanegoriye is Mamesh geoyness.

      Where were you when weberman the Torah The-rapist therapeutised indiscriminately anywhere from young boys, to minor girls back to the so called Derech, to eishes ish coaching them Sholem Bayis techniques, by giving them and for himself joy rides anywhere from four 4 to 12 hours at a time behind closed and triple locked doors while collecting a hefty fee for it, mamesh mamesh a chote veniskar. He explained them away that in their previous gilgul they were a zivug and must mend various tikunim through yichudim and chidudin. He even planted his fiery seal on their bodies with a cigaret lighter, eish al gabei bossor lemazkeres olam, and advised them to heal their burns with peanut butter. They were not a one time deal, it has been going on for years, even after the authorities have been put on alert and still and all it went on and on, although as you say that indeed bein parsha leParsha there was a hafsokeh and stopped from being a Rodef. Boruch matir assurim bepilpilim shel doifi.

      Tanoisecho ta'anas hevel, dmei achinu tsoakim elay min hoadomo!

    10. Veod lebatata,

      What a gevaldige oyftu, if a Rodef hides his weapon he is no more a threat, if a bamachteres yimotse haganov is caught and got scared pausing digging, he is no more a threat. This invention is better then what a Vehitsilu ho'eido can do. Leolam yesaper odom beloshon nekiyo, he went beyond touching and the damage that such does, how many children nebach ended up taking their own lives, their pain haunted them, and had to escape their unbearable pain. You cannot seem to put your head together, that is why he is a RODEF, molesting children KILLS, it is loy olenu a proven fact. Boishes? Hogwash! Bedinei nefoshos shel tinoykes shel beis rabon onu askinon. The father got a heter from Rabonim to let in on the authorities to stop him from Rodefing other children as well. These people are sick and cannot be healed, stopped unless you throw away the key. So have said all gedoilei haposkim, case closed. Revenge? Hasn't that been yancsi bacsi's failed attempt for weberman. No, it is not Revenge, it is to stop these sickos from harming other children. There is no place in any Mishnah that talks about molesting? How about HARODEF ACHAR HAZOCHOR, Huh? And what about ki yinotsi anoshim yachdov vesholach ...You maniac. Ayin roeh, halev chomed uklei mashchis ..... What about the mushchas that ripped off the pants of ... and pleaded to let him have his way for just two minutes? Remember the guy in the camp he was tickling the feet blah blah blah. Yeah sure, tickle , tickle my foot. How about Kemaaseh erets mitsrayim? Do you need to spell it out? Beware of those defending child killers, they just might be one of them! More so when they scream so outloud. Not even the Satan would play devil's advocate for child killers. When you grow up maybe you should try polishing shoes, you might have a much better chance to succeed.

  32. What gets me sicker than the pidyon shvuyim campaigns is that it has become customary to lie and proclaim the molester "innocent." I cannot speak for the person who put out this flyer. However, I know of many cases where those signing on knew perfectly well that the convict was guilty. Yet they go on lying. In the short term this misleads people. In the long term this erodes trust in those putting out these flyers. Eventually, a legitimately innocent defendant will be left high and dry because of these abuses.

  33. To: Don't Pasken Dinei Nefashos:
    You obviously don't have children of your own, because, if you did, you would easily be able to imagine what you would do if something like this happened to one of them. You would not be busy with your "shtiklach Torah" about boshes and money and what did he do--there was no penetration etc. etc. etc. Daas Torah means knowing how to use your head, which you are definitely not doing.

  34. Dont Pasken Dinei Nifashos!March 27, 2014 at 7:08 PM

    According to the Torah is a suspected Rapist who may be a possible future conniving Rodef Like a Yungerman that people truly 'suspect' of being a Rapist
    Is he considered a Rodef for ever need ever and ever or even at all ?
    Does he need a Bais Din of 23 scholars with true semicha to get killed (if to an eishes ish age 16 )or fined/and marriage if a single girl victim age 15 ?
    Or can we just mob Lynch him and lock him up and throw away the Key?
    Can we use Flimsy evidence/ child wittiness or just a Confession?
    He a Great public Danger you know?.... we all have young daughters!..... is this what Hashem stated in toras Moshe Rabenu???......
    Just asking ,...Any one know the answer ?
    Or do we just follow the Goyim? ask thm to Pasken the case for us ?

    1. Answer!
      Abba, heich meassirin es hateven ve'es hamelach?

      You must be mad! Vechi ma inyan shmita etsel har sinai, you are comparing apples to oranges. A mishkav zochor child molester and/ rapist is a davar she'ein lo matirin has no pas besalo, more so once he put society at large on notice and having a track record of being a Rodef or even a sofek Rodef at best in between of his attacks, unless he is subjected to a chisorin kis ved"al. He is a constant Ari hanichnas bein hoadorim toref koari uboel kechamor with no restraints, kechamoro shel Bilam. That is in no way a comparison to a heterosexual rapist, of which is not the subject at hand at all. Our rodef and sofek Rodef is not subjected to a Beis Din, he is fair game to anyone in sight to stop him and strictly in a category of "Lo saamod al dam reacho", whichever way you can, handing him over to the authorities of 'dinei demalchusei' and throwing away the key, inclusive. That is what Hashem in Toras Moshe "lo saamod" commands according to the Mishna Harodef achar hazochor and in according to Gedoilei Haposkim, nothing more, nothing less. Don't forever think that he can be a menuvel birshus haTorah having his word against a child of which is mostly their Modus Operandi. Talmud has this "machnissim oso tachas Hakipa' remedy for such rotschim as an antidote. Ein eitso ve'ein tvuna kneged H'. After spilling all your beans, it ain't worth a hill o' beans, you may now go back and rest in peace, it has been very thoroughly discussed and debated on this blog, veidach zil ugmor. I rest my case. Over n' out!

  35. Dont? Do and do big timeMarch 28, 2014 at 7:59 PM

    Can we use Flimsy evidence/ child wittiness or just a Confession? How about haydoes baal din kemeah eidim damya? Wow, I have seen many chamorim velo kechamoro shel Pinchas ben yoir, but such naivete, my goodness. Heref, Umiyad!!! Midvorov shel na'ar nikar im hu taanis cholem veyerushalayim.

    1. Never Pasken Dinai Nifashos ,March 30, 2014 at 9:49 PM

      Nonsense ! Hodaas bal din Is not for Capital punishment prison is Capital /pikuach nefesh. and best decided by 23 rabonim with true semicha

      Flimsy evidence is Never acceptable in torah law ,No matter Angry you are the Mishpat never changes.

      But I suggest That The Orthodox community Make a Database of ALL teachers and rebbes and counselors and any one to be listed/rated BEFORE he /she can teach our kids !
      This will be run by a few dedicated responsible mix of Talmidai Chacomim and each listed member will have a purity score similar to a credit score the public will be allowed to report a verified suspected report and it will remain totally the public available to any school or organization when hiring . the details info will be
      visible only to the Few Responsible chosen talmidai chachomimm
      any complaints will be verified , and recorded , unproven complaints also Valid ones will be also listed
      This will put fear in all teachers/ counselors /rebbes and protect all
      This' Concept' must be studied as a far better alternative then a simple public lynching that we have now .
      We already have a machon yuchsin and and a medical testing database tay sachs ,Why not not weed out the questionable teachers?

    2. I would suggest you read C.M.2, add the Rashba and BM 88, C.M. 388 and then you might understand Rav Eliashiv's views as well as the other gedolim published in Yeshurun 15 .

      You live in a fantasy world without understanding of either the psychology of abuse or the views of gedolim.

    3. @Never pasken wrote: "prison is Capital /pikuach nefesh. and best decided by 23 rabonim with true semicha "

      Rav Eliashiv, Rav S.Z. Auerbach, the Steipler and many others disagree with you. I have a chapter devoted to this issue. Please stop paskening issues you know nothing about.

    4. True Gedoilim Never Pasken Dinai NifashosMarch 30, 2014 at 11:54 PM

      No Single Posek Can Ever pasken Dinai Nifashos
      no matter how passionate you are about this topic
      All the Gedolim in the world cannot pasken dinai nifashos
      Bloggers Have far too much influence and we are veering from the true path
      Don't seek such shvere Shaylois
      and don't pasken from hearsay
      The world will be the safest if we stick to our Mesoirah
      Stop misquoting Gedoilim and Half gedolim each case is a World for itself and need true Talmid Chacham to Rule.on each case properly .
      Public lynching is not the torah way Sorry!
      Even so called' professional' lynching thru tongue wagging is plain not the way
      We need a Better alternative
      If someone is sick with illness he needs to be treated
      public anger and venting and copying the goyish world that does total character assassination is not the torah way
      sorry there is a better way.

      If he is Chayiv meesah then let him go to a Bais din of 23 !
      The problem is very far from being resolved!
      I am not Pakening and I hope you are ALSO not paskening ,
      Please be careful about misleading fellow unlearned yidden about safek pikuach nefesh and the alternatives
      Hotheaded decisions are always wrong!.

    5. Even though you raise an important point
      WE must PROTECT OUR KIDS !

      Also if you recall in the modwitz case where as a 'doctor' to the boys he abused patients ,
      And according to many posters on this blog impossible to rehabilitate Right?
      Well I watched rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach accord Honor and be friendly to nondowitz!!!
      Obliviously he accepted his teshuva without even serving jail , and his case was far worse then kolko !!
      Forgiveness is also important.!! Rav aurbach held thatonce exposed there is little danger .
      But flimsy evidence should never be ,
      Confession ? not according to torah.
      I will hold my nose and donate.

    6. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach told Rabbi Moshe Meiselman that the way to deal with child molestors was castration. In fact I have been told by a number of people that that is the way it was dealt with in Europe.

    7. Do you have any WRITTEN sources for this Chidush, whether regarding RSZA or European Poskim? Is it based on יכול להצילו באחד מאבריו?

  36. @true gedolim - you are a total am haaretz and are proclaiming that the gedolim who have clearly spoken on this issue don't know what they are saying. You have no understanding of elementary gemora or shulchan aruch. Your assetions regarding mesora show you have absolutely no understanding of mesora. You claim you are not paskening but you pasken that we can not follow the psak of gedolim who clearly disagree with your muddled understanding of both halacha and psychology.

    you are a fool

  37. @Never Pasken Dineai NifashosMarch 31, 2014 at 1:11 AM

    Really? Since when is prison capital punishment? You then go on ranting and raving with your 23 rabonim ve'eim habonim smeicha. If you claim it is not being a capital punishment offense, why then 23 eim habonim smicha? huh? You sound very confused, don't you. Vayosimu oisoy bamishmor, that offense never needed 23 imohos smeichos to lock him up, indeed, it was for lodaas ma yeoseh loi. Hahoreg nefesh sheloi be'eidim Machnissim oisoy tachas hakipo umaachilin oisoy seorim ad shekreiso misbakaas - lechem tzor umayim lachatz, that is because we do not have any eidim altogether, how much more flimsy can such get, then add on top haydoes baal din. Mind you, all this punishment is totally without any anger. That is the remedy to put someone like an offender that kills children, and we do not let him off scott free. Your issue with a database has constantly been denied by the ra bonim having such, but in any case, that yet does not stop any of these offenders molesting children outside of being hired. You are totally off base, have no clue, velo yehei lach eisek imohen. You must remember, molesting kills, it is pikuach nefesh and when we have no way to deal with such, dinei demalcuhse deals in any way they deem appropriate, including capital punishment. Read the story what they did with this soicher eitzim in der alter heim. Now just please walk away quietly before the sikrikin lynch mob you.

  38. Do you have any idea what a Rodef and sofek Rodef means? Go back to alef beis.


      Stop exaggerating, just lock him and throw away the key, since they are impossible to rehabilitate, and I won't hold my breath. Just like the annanei hakovod absorbed the avnei blistraos and the chitsim, kanesher yair al kinoi, ken hadovor hahi. Your flimsy proofs are meaningless, can you back them up? How can any parent forgive after having their child destroyed in such a gruesome manner.

      "Rav aurbach held thatonce exposed there is little danger."
      So how do you compromise "and his case was far worse then kolko !!" This is an oxy moron!

      "Confession ? not according to torah."
      Have you ever tried Talmud? Rodef, Sofek rodef, hadoes baal din?
      Your failed defense is saruach meikro. Repeating yourself like a parrot, changes nothing. The only way you can release them if you bobbitize them.

  39. What did they do to the weberman's victim and family?April 1, 2014 at 5:50 AM

    Public lynching is not the torah way Sorry! Did I hear you right?

    For each and every victim and family they bullied, harassed, intimidated and were rodef ad chormo, they also made sure to take away their parnosos. And when VeHoelokim bikesh es hanirdaf, they make vaytsakis all over the place, taaneisim, blowing shofars in the wind, Children die, mothers die in childbirth, right after childbirth, bochurim die, yinge vaiblech nebech die of cancer in unprecedented numbers, and all these abnormal gevaldige tsoris happening recently rachmone lesheizve. It is not for nothing, it is not a coincidence, it is terrible, it is sooo heartbreaking, nisht tsum oishalten. It goes all the way up to these alleged manhigim, dayonim, that nosen yad laposhim and metaher sherets bekif nun taamim, why? Just because they can! They need to censor the security cameras before the police, so just in case their anshay shloimayni chas veshulem has been caught on camera, or a rotseach like Epstein and Wolmark, or the *shomrei karta* together with their (chaveirim) sonei yisrael goon squads commit their maiseh tatiim breakins bakesseh on acheinu bnei yisrael R'L' so as not to be witnessed and caught on candid camera. Yes, they get a heter meah ra bonim to commit resha, and in case you don't believe it, Leiby tochiach. How much did they spend on sheigets weberman to have his attorney harass the victim in hope to shame her out of testifying? All this money for what, so that these menuvolim, mashchisim, child rapists, mechablim bakromim should be able to continue and devestate our children. It is all the childrens fault, because they don't keep quiet like you want them to. But Hashem had other plans, he stopped the halperns, berlands, kolkos, webermans, orrur hamans, and many more to come. Raboisei, it is time to open your eyes and see what brings on these klolos nimrotsos on klall yisrael, and time to open your mouths and make a vayitsaki, we want no part in giving cover for these molesters, let alone giving money to let these murderers free to roam the streets again chasing our children, all under disguise of pidyon shvuyim rachmono litslan. We are moiche bechol toikef being mavaze Talmidei Chachomim lynching them and their families out of town. Where were you then, big guy Torah way? It bebchinas oise maaseh Zimri umevakesh schar kePinchos. Enough is much more than enough.


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