Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Abuse - Can you ever trust a predator?

Associated Press:

A pastor in this quiet, picturesque New England town opened his doors to a convicted child killer who had served his time but had nowhere to go.

But some neighbors of the Rev. David Pinckney vehemently disagree with the pastor's decision — one even threatening to burn his house down after officials could find no one else willing to take 60-year-old Raymond Guay.

"Politicians think they can dump their trash in our small town," said one neighbor, Jon Morales, whose girlfriend and two children live across an unpaved road from Pinckney's home.

Chichester, a town of about 2,200 residents in south-central New Hampshire, has been in an uproar since the weekend, when police announced that Guay would spend two months with Pinckney's family.

About 40 angry residents protested outside the home Saturday, Merrimack County Sheriff Scott Hilliard said. One protester blustered that he wanted to set it on fire, he said.

Town leaders were expected Tuesday night to ask state and federal officials to remove Guay from town.

Guay already had a criminal record when he was charged in 1973, at age 25, with abducting and murdering a 12-year-old boy in Nashua.[...]


  1. Is it against a fundamental Torah hashkafah to assert that there is a sin for which teshuvah is impossible?

    We have this problem in our shul. The rabbi's solution was not to allow the person in until he took the "Sex Offender Assessment Pack" that NJ State Law tends to use for these cases and the results evaluated by a psychologist who specializes in these things hired by the shul. Since he has yet to take the test, it became a non-issue.

    But I think this idea is great. It minimizes risk while not requiring us to permanently write people out of the community. Does it eliminate all risk? Of course not. But then, the person is less likely to slip through than the odds of there being a dangerous person in the congregation who we don't even know to suspect.


  2. micha said...

    Is it against a fundamental Torah hashkafah to assert that there is a sin for which teshuvah is impossible?
    page 83 in Daas Torah - I think this is true of child molesters

    Rambam (Hilchos Teshuva 3:14): Concerning the sinners and heretics who lose their portion in the World to Come. … that is only if they die without repenting. However, if they truly repent then they obtain the World to Come since there is nothing which stands in the way of repentance. Therefore, if a person has been a heretic all his life but repents at the end then he has the World to Come…. All the wicked, the heretics and those like them—if they repent either openly or in private they are accepted…

    Rambam (Hilchos Avoda Zara 2:5): … a Jewish heretic is not considered a part of the Jewish people and he is never accepted back even if repents…It is prohibited to talk with them or reply to them in any manner…

    Resolution of contradiction

    Rambam (Letter #615:8): …concerning the apparent contradiction [between Hilchos Teshuva and Hilchos Avoda Zara] as to whether a heretic can repent and obtain the World to Come. In fact, there is no contradiction. The statement found in Hilchos Avoda Zara that his repentance is not accepted means that he is always presumed to be a heretic. His apparent repentance is to be assumed to be from fear or to fool people. The other statement from Hilchos Teshuva that their repentance is accepted is referring to the case where they have in fact genuinely repented—in their relationship to G﷓d. That is why they obtain the World to Come. It is specifically dealing with their relationship to G﷓d. The first statement from Hilchos Teshuva is describing their relationship with other people—and in that case, their repentance is presumed to be falseLesser of two evils - advise?

  3. מט קרולפסקיMarch 8, 2019 at 8:30 AM


    I am writing to to the frum world to explain why I left Yiddishkite and converted to Christianity.. I was in an Ohel group home years ago ( I was in foster care too).....Ohel put me in Yeshiva Chaim Berlin ... I became frum in Chaim Berlin and stayed frum for 20 years...I just want to let all frum jews know....The reason why I left Yiddishkite and converted to Christianity is because for years I was sexually molested by rabbi Jonathan Max YEMACH SHMO FOREVER in the Yeshhiva Chaim Berlin dormitory ...The pain was just too much to handle... Now I am healing in church almost every Sunday....Real sad story...But, sexual abuse destroys Jewish Neshomoys..KEEP MINOR CHILDREN AWAY FROM RABBI JONATHAN MAX OF BROOKLY ,NY...
    ימח שמו וזכרו של רבּיַי מקס , ממש לעולם ועד.. MATTHEW (MENACHEM) KARELEFSKY (412)390-8369
    יִמַח שׁמוֹ וְזִכְרוֹ שֶׁל רבּיַ

  4. If your alleged story is true, I sympathize with your pain.

    However that is a rather pathetic reason to convert to Christianity.

    Is it an act of rebellion against a system that you feel let you down, or do really believe the nonsense promulgated by those idolaters?

    BTW, there are far more pedophiles in churches, than in shuls...

  5. Using you illogical knee-jerk philosophy, you should leave Christianity ASAP, since it has been directly responsible for the deaths and atrocities committed against tens of millions of people throughout the past two thousand years, whether by the Catholic Church or whether by Protestant denominations. The evil committed by a few individual Jews, pale in significance when compared to the depravity of other nations.

  6. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 8, 2019 at 2:58 PM

    "The evil committed by a few individual Jews, pale in significance when compared to the depravity of other nations."

    From an academic standpoint, yes. From the torah perspective? The Temple was destroyed for this reason, not because of christians or other idolaters at the time.

  7. The Second Temple was destroyed because of sexual molestation?

  8. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 8, 2019 at 4:11 PM

    first one was. Second, sinas chinnam, or the story of Bar Kamtza. But there wre plagues also brought on the world for this behaviour, the flood, sodom and amara..

  9. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 8, 2019 at 4:13 PM

    nice one -
    there are heretics and heretics-
    Akavya ben Mehalelel was put in nidui, but he was the Gadol hador and had a mesora. He was telling the truth but still considered a heretic. The Mishnah says he was the greatest tzaddik of the generation, or all generations. he didn't repent, because he was telling the truth.

  10. The first Temple was destroyed due to THREE cardinal sins, one of them being "gilui arayos", illicit sexual relations, which may have been consensual.

    It's important to note, that while we do not condone it in any form or manner, we must remember that the term "sexual molestation" as it's commonly used today, does not necessarily refer to "gilui arayos".

  11. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 9, 2019 at 10:10 PM

    Consensual? Who is talking about consensual?

  12. This "meshumad" claims that he was sexually molested "for years". How did this happen?

    Devarim 22:24
    והוצאתם את שניהם אל שער העיר ההוא וסקלתם אתם באבנים ומתו את הנער [הנערה] על דבר אשר לא צעקה בעיר
    נדון האשה כמתרצה, בעבור שהיתה יכולה להושע ממנו
    רמב"ם, הלכות שאלה ופקדון ה ד
    המפקיד אצל חברו כלים או פירות, ובאו גנבים וגנבום בפניו, ואילו היה צווח, היו באין בני אדם ומצילין אותן, הואיל ולא צווח, הרי זה פושע, וחייב לשלם

  13. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 9, 2019 at 11:43 PM

    you are saying abuse is consensual?

  14. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 9, 2019 at 11:58 PM

    and what exactly, do you think they did in S'dom?

  15. Raped male visitors who dared come into town?

  16. Each case needs to be judged on the relevant facts.

  17. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM

    Yes, this is what the meshumad is alleging. He was an orphan with no place to go.

  18. According to his story, he was in a "Ohel" group home.
    The alleged abuse occurred in yeshiva.
    Why did he not SCREAM?
    If someone was physically cutting his genitals he would scream.

    BTW, I don't plan on responding anymore regarding this claim, because this is his modus operandi. He spams message boards with his "lashon hara", and never responds to any comments. I'm not the yeshiva's spokesperson, and you don't need to be his lawyer. If he's adult enough yo post his slander, he should be adult enough to respond on his own.

  19. Kalonymus AnonymusMarch 10, 2019 at 3:34 PM

    I'm also saying no more on the matter


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