Monday, June 23, 2008

Supreme Court rejects appeal to stop offensive gay parade

YNET writes:

Efrat Weiss

The High Court of Justice rejected Monday afternoon a petition filed by right-wing activists Itamar Ben-Gvir and Baruch Marzel against holding a gay pride parade in Jerusalem.

As a result, the parade will take place as scheduled this coming Thursday.
In their ruling the judges said they took the parade's route into consideration, as well as a statement issued by the Open House organization according to which the marchers do not plan on provoking the capital's residents in any way.

The plan to hold the gay parade in Jerusalem has drawn the ire of several religious bodies. A few days ago Shas Chairman Eli Yishai, Knesset Member Uri Ariel (National Union-NRP), the United Torah Judaism party and Israel's chief rabbis demanded that the parade be called off or held in a closed venue.

This year's parade will begin in Jerusalem's Independence Park at 4 pm on June 26, and end in Liberty Bell Park with a ceremony presenting the gay community's call for equal rights, with the hope of promoting love and tolerance in the country's capital.

Mayor Uri Lupolianski recently urged the High Court to accept Ben-Gvir's petition prohibit the gay community from holding the parade in Jerusalem and described it as a "severe provocation".

In a letter to the court the mayor said, "Past experience shows that the parade greatly offends, deliberately and unnecessarily, the feelings of Jews, Muslims and Christians, who view its sheer existence, and the blatant manner in which it takes place, as a desecration of the holy city and of the values with which they were raised."


  1. Once upon a time, the public performance of musical works by Wagner were prohibited in Israel in deference to Holocaust survivors who had been forced to march in the death camps to the music of Hitler's favorite composer.

    Today the Israeli Supreme Court PERMITS Jerusalem to become the annual home to the very same sexual and societal deviance that birthed the Nazi party.

    How can the State of Israel make the claim that exists to PROTECT the Jewish people from another Holocaust when the Israeli Supreme Court rules to permit the same social and sexual deviance that BIRTHED the Nazi party!!

    "Prior to the Third Reich, Berlin was considered a liberal city, with many gay bars, nightclubs and cabarets. There were even many drag bars where tourists straight and gay would enjoy female impersonation acts.

    Berlin also had the most active LGBT rights movements in the world at the time. It also sought social recognition of homosexual and transgender men and women. Berlin was home to the first public gay rights organization.

    Ludwig Lenz worked at the Sex Research Institute in Berlin, which was destroyed by Hitler's Brown Shirts in 1933 likely because its records, including 40,000 confessions from members of the Nazi Party, would have exposed the sexual perversions of Nazi leadership. Lenz said that "not ten percent of the men who, in 1933, took the fate of Germany into their hands, were sexually normal."

    In fact, the Nazi Party began in a gay bar in Munich, and Ernst Roehm, Hitler's right hand in the early days of Nazism, was well-known for his taste in young boys.

    William Shirer says in his definitive "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," not only that Roehm was "important in the rise of Hitler," but also "like so many of the early Nazis, (he was) a homosexual."

    Hitler eventually had Roehm shot, not because he was a homosexual but because his influence over the Brown Shirts made him a political threat to Hitler's control. The Roehm Purge, or "Night of the Long Knives," was largely implemented by homosexuals.

    Hitler's Brown Shirts, the dreaded SA, better known as "Storm Troopers," were the creation of another homosexual, Gerhard Rossbach, and Storm Troopers were almost exclusively homosexual. They also, sadly, comprised most of the leadership of the Hitler Youth, resulting in frequent instances of sexual molestation.

    The Brown Shirts were Hitler's enforcers. According to Nazi historian Louis Snyder, Roehm recruited homosexuals into the SA because Roehm felt Germany needed "a proud and arrogant lot who could brawl, carouse, smash windows, kill and slaughter for the hell of it. Straights, in (Roehm's) eyes, were not as adept in such behavior as practicing homosexuals."

    Of the Brown Shirts, historian Thomas Fuchs says, "The principle function of this army-like organization was beating up on anyone who opposed the Nazis, and Hitler believed this was a job best undertaken by homosexuals."

    Historian H.R. Knickerbocker writes, "Roehm, as the head of 2,500,000 Storm Troops, had surrounded himself with a staff of perverts. His chiefs were almost without exception homosexuals. Indeed, unless a Storm Troop officer were homosexual, he had no chance of advancement."

    One of the favorite tunes of the Brown Shirts contained this line, "Storm Trooper Comrades, hang the Jews and put the priests against the wall."

    In sum, the masculine homosexual movement in Germany created the Brown Shirts, and the Brown Shirts in turn created the Nazi Party.

    Historian Frank Rector writes of a film made by the SS "that was secretly made for the enjoyment of a select coterie of Nazis showing a wild drunken orgy of beautiful boys and handsome young men being whipped, raped and murdered by the SS."

    Even today in America, it is chic in some homosexual circles for individuals to wear replicas of Nazi Germany uniforms, complete with iron crosses, storm trooper outfits, military boots and even swastikas.

    Some parts of the American Nazi movement are explicitly homosexual. The National Socialist League, in fact, at last word restricts its membership to homosexual Nazis.

    What's the point here? Simply that there is another side to the constant refrain from homosexual activists who frequently mention the Nazi persecution of homosexuals and in so doing imply that activists who oppose the normalization of homosexuality are in effect crypto-Nazis.

    As has been famously said, those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it. Nazi Germany became the horror that it was because it rejected both the Bible and its clear teaching about human sexuality. These are mistakes no sane culture should ever make again.

    By Bryan Fischer, Executive Director of the Idaho Values Alliance.

  2. And here is another work which connects the birth of the Nazi party to the sadistic sexual deviances of homosexual "butches".

    The evidence is overwhelming that Hitler was gay and that homosexual themes permeate Nazi culture.

    "Was Hitler's homosexuality Nazism's best-kept secret? . - fair comment - The Hidden Hitler - book review
    Insight on the News, Feb 25, 2002 by Nathaniel S. Lehrman

    Adolf Hitler's homosexuality has been demonstrated beyond question by German historian Lothar Machtan's massively researched new book, The Hidden Hitler, which shows homosexuality's central role in Hitler's personal life.

    But the crucial role within the Nazi movement of the most vicious and lawless types of homosexuality, which Machtan also shows, is even more important than Hitler's personal preference. In 1933, six months after Hitler took power, the distinguished Jewish author Ludwig Lewisohn described what Machtan confirms, that "the entire [Nazi] movement is in fact and by certain aspects of its avowed ideology drenched through and through with homoerotic feeling and practice." And those homosexual currents inextricably were connected with vicious German militarism long before the Nazis.

    In a 1931 expose of the Nazi Party, two years before it took power, the Munich Post attacked "the disgusting hypocrisy that the party demonstrates -- outward moral indignation while inside its own ranks the most shameless practices prevail," and said that "every knowledgeable person knows that inside the Hitler party the most flagrant whorishness contemplated by paragraph 175 (defining homosexuality as a criminal offense) is widespread." Machtan confirms that Nazi hypocrisy, noting how "homosexuality was simultaneously proscribed and protected: Hitler had tailored it to his political and personal requirements."

    "They (the Nazis) were anti-Semitic, militaristic and gratuitously brutal. Their sexual ideal was the man-boy relationship extolled and engaged in by the Greeks, Crusaders and Teutonic knights. They considered these pederastic activities morally superior to sex with women, whom they despised as useful only for breeding.

    Another probable reason for Hitler's anti-Semitism is traditional Judaism's appreciation of women and its fierce opposition to homosexuality and the debasing of women. German-Jewish historian Samuel Igra describes this in his neglected 1945 book, Germany's National Vice.


  3. The route isn't going to provoke anyone? The whole reason the parade will be in J-lem and not in Tel Aviv is to provoke. And not just everyone but specifically the religious Jewish population. After all, the parade is going nowhere near the Arab neighbourhoods, X-ian or Muslim.

  4. Garnel is right. It makes sense of course, because the purpose of the parade is to provoke the current power base into accepting them as 'good.'

  5. You might not want to use Germany as an example for why we should be against gay rights.

    You said, - "Prior to the Third Reich, Berlin was considered a liberal city, with many gay bars, nightclubs and cabarets. There were even many drag bars where tourists straight and gay would enjoy female impersonation acts.

    Berlin also had the most active LGBT rights movements in the world at the time. It also sought social recognition of homosexual and transgender men and women. Berlin was home to the first public gay rights organization."

    All of this is true and totally irrelevant. Berlin was never a Nazi stronghold. In fact Nazi party officials were always weary of the fact that Berliners were cosmopolitan nature and they had a fear of popular revolution from them.

    A famous case in point was that in 1942 orders were given to round up all Jews who were married to Ayrians for deportation. The internees spouses and other locals showed up at wherever they were being held and held a protest demanding that their spouses be returned to them. The Nazi officials duly intimidated acquiesced. Many of these Jews were again rounded up later but you get my point.

    The truth is that the real grassroots area in Germany was in the southern state of Bavaria. Not the rest of the country. They also were not exactly elected by landslide. They actually still a minority party that managed to scrape up a power sharing coalition with the communist party of all people. Once in power, though they managed to shred the Weimar constitution by bruit force.

    Yes it is true that the top echelons of power in the third Reich were gay. This did not stop them from carrying out a policy of extermination on them. The lucky one (if you could call them that) were merely sentenced to castration.

    Using this comparison brings to mind the scandals with American politicians who espouse purity and are secretly gay or are sleeping with prostitutes. This is the motto "what is good for the gander is not good for the goose."

    Let us not lump ourselves into that category?

    However I will give you Kudos for what you have posted here because it erases much dogma about homosexuals being sensitive and correct thinking. It might also be surmised that the Nazis gayness might have been hardwire interlinked to their appetite for violence and bloodshed. Could it be that homosexuality is a psychiatric issue and not merely an issue of being different but equal? I might use this analogy with your permission on different posts.

  6. Dear Bartley Kulp,

    Thank you. My reason for posting this history of the Nazi party (and also Ancient Greece and Rome) was just that:

    "dogma about homosexuals being sensitive and correct thinking."

    The media and popular culture would like us to believe that homosexuals are more sensitive and correct thinking, but homosexual behavior is a sexual deviance. It has long been studied that people who become comfortable with one type of deviance also tend toward others.

    According to the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, At least 13.8 million Americans develop problems associated with drinking. 50% percent of cases involving major trauma are alcohol related. 50% of homicides are alcohol related. 40% of assaults are alcohol related.

    "It might also be surmised that the Nazis gayness might have been hardwire interlinked to their appetite for violence and bloodshed. "

    Violence IS part of the homosexual lifestyle.

    According to Paul Cameron, Ph. D.:

    The top six U.S. male serial killers were all gay:
    • Donald Harvey claimed 37 victims in Kentucky;
    • John Wayne Gacy raped and killed 33 boys in Chicago, burying them under his house and in his yard;
    • Patrick Kearney accounted for 32, cutting his victims into small pieces after sex and leaving them in trash bags along the Los Angeles freeways;
    • Bruce Davis molested and killed 27 young men and boys in Illinois;
    • A gay sex-murder-torture ring (Corll-Henley-Brooks) sent 27 Texas men and boys to their grave; and
    • Juan Corona was convicted of murdering 25 migrant workers (he "made love" with their corpses).

    Lesbian Aileen Wuornos laid claim in 1992 to "worst female killer" with at least 7 middle-aged male victims. She singlehandedly topped the lesbian nurse team of Catherine Wood and Gwen Graham, who had killed 6 convalescent patients in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

    The association between serial murder and homosexuality isn’t recent. Two gays compete for the spot of "world’s worst murderer." During the Nazi reign of terror, Auschwitz executioner Ludwig Tiene strangled, crushed, and gnawed boys and young men to death while he raped them. Though his grand total is uncertain, he often murdered as many as 100 a day. Gilles de Rais (Bluebeard) brutally destroyed the lives of 800 boys. Each lad was lured to his home, bathed and fed. Just as the poor boy thought "this is my lucky day," he was raped, then killed by being ripped or cut apart and either burned or eaten.

    A study of 518 sexually-tinged mass murders in the U.S. from 1966 to 1983 determined that 350 (68%) of the victims were killed by those who practiced homosexuality and that 19 (44%) of the 43 murderers were bisexuals or homosexuals.

    Probing more deeply into the connection between murder and homosexuality, Jim Warren, who worked as a counselor at the Washington State Corrections Center, did the intake interview for almost all the younger murderers (i.e., under age 36) in the state of Washington from 1971-82 (during the growth of the gay rights movement). He was "probably the only one who examined the entirety of each of their case files." Warren testified (4) that he was struck with how frequently homosexuality turned up in the cases.

    Starting with a trickle of 2 or 3 murders/year in 1972 until dozens/year by the 1980s, he noted a recurrent pattern: Although the motive listed in the report was often robbery or theft, "about 50% of the time" it was also associated with homosexuality. Typically, a homosexual would meet someone at a bar or park and invite him to his home. Before the morning, an argument would ensue and he or his visitor would be dead.

    A substantial percentage of homosexuals (37%) indulge in painful or violent sex (e.g., bondage and discipline [B/D], where the partner is physically restrained and mildly tortured, or sadomasochism [S/M], where partners are tortured or hurt during sex). Even in the 1940s, psychiatrist David Abrahamsen noted, "It is well known that homosexual inclinations may be accompanied by sadistic or masochistic tendencies.... These perversions play a great part in many sexual offenses and in many cases of murder." In a national survey of random samples of homosexuals and heterosexuals, 32% of those males who called themselves homosexual or bisexual versus 5% of heterosexual males reported having engaged in sadomasochism; 17% of lesbians versus 4% of heterosexual women also admitted to S/M. Likewise, gays and lesbians were about four times more apt to engage in bondage than were heterosexuals.

    • Homosexual books and magazines celebrate the "fun" of violent sex. For instance, a Denver gay columnist (the "leathersex fairy"), told his readers how to strangle and flog one’s partner during sex. He also extolled the practice of "hanging from a tree by meat hooks through the pectoral muscles" and described "guys who like to have burning cigars, cigarettes, or matches held near or pressed into their skin." Likewise, national and international gay tour books matter-of-factly list places where sadomasochistic sex can be obtained.

    • In 1993, London gays raised £100,000 to appeal a conviction in which the judge ruled that "sex is no excuse for violence.... Pleasure derived from the infliction of pain is an evil thing." The crime? "Nailing a foreskin and scrotum to a board" and "pouring hot wax in a urethra."

    • The 1980 CBS-TV documentary, Gay Power, Gay Politics reported that about 10% of the accidental deaths among young men in San Francisco resulted from sadomasochistic sex gone awry.

    The National Crime Survey reported that about 1 of every 10,000 males over the age of 11 is raped each year (vs 13 of every 10,000 females) – that is, about 7% of rapes are homosexual. In two jurisdictions, Columbia, SC and Memphis, TN, males accounted for 5.7% of the victims of rape reported to authorities – in only one instance was the assailant a woman.

    Along with the rise of the gay rights movement, homosexual rape of men appears to have increased in the past few decades. Homosexual rape is twice as common in urban areas where gays congregate than in suburban or rural areas. It may also be more common where the gay subculture is accepted: a 1970 study in San Francisco found that 9% of male heterosexuals and 24% of gays; 2% of female heterosexuals and 11% of lesbians reported having been homosexually raped. In our 1983 national urban survey (which did not include San Francisco), 1.3% of heterosexual men vs 12.5% of gay men and 0.6% of heterosexual women vs 8.6% of lesbians reported having been homosexually raped.

    More alarmingly, between 15% to 40% of statutory rape (child molestation) involves homosexuality. In one study, 25% of white gays admitted to sex with boys 16 or younger when they were aged 21 or older.

    Rape at any age is violent and emotionally devastating. But it can also edge victims toward homosexuality. In our national study, almost half the lesbians said they had been heterosexually raped – perhaps gravitating to homosexuality because of the experience. Males often react differently. Thus the Masters and Johnson Institute reported that a "25-year-old man had had his first sexual experience when he was 13 years old. It was arranged by his lesbian mother with an older gay man. After that episode, his imagery and interpersonal sexual experience were exclusively homosexual." Likewise, "Mr. K, age 22, felt that his change in sexual preference was related to his having been raped by two men.... After the assault he experienced sexual identity confusion and began engaging voluntarily in homosexual activity. When he was seen for evaluation he labeled himself as openly homosexual."

    A study of 6,714 obituaries in gay newspapers across the U.S. revealed that 3% of 6,574 gays and 20% of 140 lesbians had died violently:

    • 1.4% of gays and 7% of lesbians were murdered (rates over a hundred times those of non-gays);

    • 0.6% of gays and 5.7% of lesbians committed suicide (rates dozens of times those of non-gays); and

    • 0.6% of gays and 4.3% of lesbians died in motor vehicle accidents (over 17 times the rate of non-gays)

    These events, coupled with various STDs (especially AIDS) gotten from other gays, resulted in a median age of death of 40 among gays and a median age of death of 45 among lesbians. In the same study, comparison samples of married men had a median age of death of 75 and married women a median age of death of 79. For divorced or single persons the median age of death was 57 for men and 71 for women.

    "Could it be that homosexuality is a psychiatric issue and not merely an issue of being different but equal?"

    In line with traditional psychiatric opinion, violence goes hand-in-hand with the ‘gay’ lifestyle. Almost all the exposure by homosexuals to violence and disease is encountered in the gay subculture. Most of the murderers in the lifespan study whose sexual orientation could be determined were also homosexual. While violence toward homosexuals is deplorable, most violence involving gays is self-induced (and the gay subculture may export more violence than it absorbs from without).

    I might use this analogy with your permission on different posts.

    Please do not hesitate. This is another idea that came from my mother. When the Gay Rights movement began in the 70s, my mother said, "All the Nazis were sadistic homosexuals, go read about it you'll see its true".

    William Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich was published in 1960. Shirer documents the homosexual connection to the rise of the Nazi party. This information is nothing new or revealing.

    We, as Jews who are all responsible for one another, have a great deal to protest about this parade. The Israeli Supreme court has upheld an open invitation for rape, violent crime and pedophilia to come on over and party in Jerusalem, our Holy City. It's just mind boggling!

  7. This seems, to me, akin to the "know who else" corollary to Godwin's law.

    Prominent Nazis were homosexuals. Therefore homosexuals are Nazis, or are tinged with the taint of the Nazis.

    See here:

    Examples of this in play:
    1) "and you know who else had many jokes at our expense? You
    guessed it, THE NAZIS!!!!"

    2) "You know who else refused to clean up after their dogs?"

    3) "You know who else breathed air? Nazi Germans."

    4) "You know who else strived for perfection? Hitler."

    5) "You know who else had rallies where they burned things they found offensive?"

    6) "You know who else didn't like meat? Hitler!"

    7) "You know who else liked big parades?"

    and so on and so forth.

    I understand you don't like homosexuals, and that you don't like Nazis. But this is a fallacy.

    I could turn around and ask "do you know who else was concerned with genetic purity, and questions of who is a Jew?" It is an offensive comparison to make, IMHO.

    Kol Tuv,

  8. Also, about this Cameron fellow you are citing. I understand that he reinforces your opinions, but I wonder if you would stand by claims of others with similar "credentials."

    To cite from Wikipedia:
    "Paul Drummond Cameron (born November 9, 1939) is an American psychologist and sex researcher. While employed at various institutions including the University of Nebraska he conducted research on passive smoking and several other topics, but he is best known today for his claims about homosexuality. After a successful 1982 campaign against a gay rights proposal in Lincoln, Nebraska, he established the Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, now known as the Family Research Institute (FRI). As FRI's chairman, Cameron has written papers associating homosexuality with perpetration of child sexual abuse and reduced life expectancy.

    In 1983, the American Psychological Association decided to drop Cameron from membership for non-cooperation with an ethics investigation, although by his own account and a letter from the President of the APA, he resigned from the organization the previous year. His work has been criticised for alleged misrepresentation of data by the American Sociological Association and Canadian Psychological Association."

    and then:
    "n 1984 the Nebraska Psychological Association issued a statement disassociating itself "from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron".[3] In 1986 the American Sociological Association, following a report from its Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology,[19] passed a resolution condemning Dr. Cameron for "consistent misrepresentation of sociological research".[20] In 1996, the Board of Directors of the Canadian Psychological Association approved a position statement disassociating the organisation from Cameron's work on sexuality, stating that he had "consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism"."

    and then:
    "Cameron has also been criticised for placing responsibility for same-sex child sexual abuse on "homosexuals"; opponents state that someone who carries out such abuse need not have a homosexual orientation with respect to other adults. [25][26] Dr. Gregory M. Herek, Ph.D. charges that Cameron misrepresented the literature he had reviewed and cited to support his claims, such as a Groth and Birnbaum (1978) study in which none of the participants actually identified as homosexuals, and none of those who were bisexual claimed to prefer men over women. Furthermore, while Cameron assumed all the same-sex molestations were perpetrated by homosexuals, he did not assume all the opposite-sex molestations were perpetrated by heterosexuals; he included a "bisexual correction" only for opposite-sex molestations that effectively increased the number of perpetrators described as "homosexual" without changing the number described as "heterosexual".[27]

    Dr. Herek has published a methodological critique of the Cameron group's studies in which he identifies at least six errors in sampling technique and data analysis. According to Dr. Herek, "an empirical study manifesting even one of these six weaknesses would be considered seriously flawed. In combination, the multiple methodological problems evident in the Cameron group's surveys mean that their results cannot even be considered a valid description of the specific group of individuals who returned the survey questionnaire."."

    Kol Tuv,

  9. Okay, you don't like Paul Cameron.

    I also cited Scott Lively, Ludwig Lenz, William Shirer, Thomas Fuchs, Lothar Muchtan, H.R. Knickerbocker, Frank Rector, Bryan Fischer, and Nathaniel Lehrman to support the assertion that homosexuality IS a violent and deviant lifestyle that gave birth to the Nazi party. Each of the above are credentialed and credible professionals, authors and historians.

    Scott Lively, author of the Pink Swaztika- Homosexuality and the Nazi Party cites the following bibliography to support his conclusion that the homosexual lifestyle was an inherent part of the birth of the Nazi party:

    Agonito, Rosemary. History of Ideas on Women: A Source Book. New York, G.P. Putnam & Sons, 1977.

    Alyson Almanac. Boston, Alyson Publications Inc., 1990.

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    Bleuel, Hans Peter. Sex and Society in Nazi Germany. New York, J.B. Lippincott Company, 1973.

    Burleigh, Michael, and Wipperman, Wolfgang. The Racial State:Germany 1933-1945. New York, Cambridge University Press, 1993.

    Calic, Edouard. Reinhard Heydrich: The Chilling Story of the Man Who Masterminded the Nazi Death Camps. Military Heritage Press, William Morrow and Company, 1982.

    Cavendish, Richard. Man, Myth & Magic: An Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Supernatural. New York, Marshall Cavendish Corporation, 1970.

    Costello, John. Mask of Treachery: Spies, Lies, Buggery and Betrayal. New York, William Morrow and Company, 1988.

    Crompton, Louis. "Gay Genocide: from Leviticus to Hitler." The Gay Academic. Palm Springs, California, ETC Publications, 1978.

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    Fest, Joachim C. Hitler. New York, Vintage Books, 1975.

    Friedlander, Benedict. "Memoirs for the Friends and Contributors of the Scientific Humanitarian Committee in the Name of the Succession of the Scientific Humanitarian Committee." Journal of Homosexuality, January-February 1991.

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    Reisman, Dr. Judith A., and Eichel, Edward W. Kinsey, Sex and Fraud: The Indoctrination of a People. Lafayette, Louisiana, Huntington House, 1990.

    Reiter, Joseph A. "Death in Venice." Grolier Electronic Publishing, Inc., 1992.

    Robinson, Jacob. "The History of the Holocaust." Holocaust. Jerusalem, Keter Publishing House, 1974.

    Rose, Rick. "Museum of Pain." The Advocate, October 19, 1993.

    Rossman, Parker. Sexual Experience Between Men and Boys. New York, Association Press, 1976.

    Rowse, A.L. Homosexuals in History: Ambivalence in Society, Literature and the Arts. New York,Macmillan Publishing Company, 1977.

    Schwarzwaller, Wulf. The Unknown Hitler: His Private Life and Fortune. National Press, Inc., and Star Agency, 1989.

    Seward, Desmond. Napolean and Hitler: A Comparative Biography. New York, Simon & Schuster.

    Shaul, Elisheva. "Homosexuality in the Third Reich." In Gutman, Israel (Ed.). Encyclopedia of the Holocaust. Tel Aviv, Sifria Poalim Publishing House, 198?.

    Shirer, William. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. New York, Fawcett Crest, 1960.

    Sklar, D. The Nazis and the Occult. New York, Dorset Press, 1989.

    Skousen, W. Cleon. The Naked Communist. Salt Lake City, Utah, Ensign Publishing Co., 1958.

    Snyder, Dr. Louis L. Encyclopedia of the Third Reich. New York, Paragon House, 1989.

    Steakley, James D. The Homosexual Emancipation Movement in Germany. New York, Arno Press, 1975.

    Steiner, Jean-Francois. Treblinka. New York, Simon and Schuster, 1979.

    Strasser, Otto. Hitler and I. Boston, Houghton Mifflin Company, 1940.

    Strasser, Otto, and Stern, Michael. Flight From Terror. New York, Robert M. McBride & Company, 1943.

    Taylor, Fred. The Goebbels Diaries: 1939-1941. New York, G.P. Putmans' Sons, 1983.

    Ulrichs, Karl Heinrich. Forschugen uner das Ratsel der Mannmanlichen Liebe. Leipzig, Max Spohr Verlag, 1989.

    Waite, Robert G.L. Vanguard of Nazism: The Free Corps Movement in Postwar Germany 1918-1923. New York, W.W. Norton and Company, 1969.

    Waite, Robert G.L. The Psychopathic God Adolf Hitler. New York, Signet Books, 1977.

    Wiesel, Elie. Night. New York, Avon Books, 1969.

    Wistrich, Robert. Who's Who in Nazi Germany. New York: Bonanza Books, 1984.

    If you still don't believe that homosexuality is a violent and depraved lifestyle, speak to any Emergency Room doctor or nurse who ever worked in a city with a large homosexual population.

  10. A search of the National Institute of Health's database of medical literature

    "gay men"

    returned 4490 research articles on injuries and health concerns specific to the practices of homosexual men.

    ie Richters J, de Visser RO, Rissel CE, Grulich AE, Smith AM.
    Demographic and Psychosocial Features of Participants in Bondage and Discipline, "Sadomasochism" or Dominance and Submission (BDSM): Data from a National Survey.
    J Sex Med. 2008 Mar 4.

    Houston E, McKirnan DJ.
    Intimate partner abuse among gay and bisexual men: risk correlates and health outcomes.
    J Urban Health. 2007 Sep;84(5):681-90.
    PMID: 17610158

    But I am sure that any emergency room doctor or nurse who has worked in a city with a gay population can tell you at least a few stories firsthand.

    There is a reason why the life expectancy for gay men is about 20 years less than for heterosexual men.
    International Journal of Epidemiology 2001;30:1499
    Gay life expectancy revisited
    Robert S Hogg, Steffanie A Strathdee, Kevin JP Craib, Michael V O'shaughnessy, Julio Montaner and Martin T Schechter

  11. "Okay, you don't like Paul Cameron."

    And you do??

    It says something to me that you are willing to make use of such shoddy, questionable research.

    And you did not just cite him, but you cited him *extensively* to "prove" that homosexuals are violent pedophiles and rapists.

    Regarding the others you cite, that is about *Nazism,* not about them being rapists and pedophiles. They are distinct things and you should not conflate them. And I already addressed that point in the comment preceding that, about Godwin's law.

    You say you cited Scott Lively, but I also see reference to him in that comment, not before. But that is a minor point.

    The major point is that it is not what these authors are saying but how *you* are interpreting them to color every single gay person.

    For example (and I could do this for many of your quotes), "Of the Brown Shirts, historian Thomas Fuchs says, "The principle function of this army-like organization was beating up on anyone who opposed the Nazis, and Hitler believed this was a job best undertaken by homosexuals."

    Great, so *Hitler* believed that. Hitler also believed that Jews were subhuman. Fuchs is not saying that gays *are* inherently more prone to violence, but that *Hilter* believed this.

    Kol Tuv,

  12. Dear Josh Waxman,

    My sister was completing her doctorate in Forensic Medicine last summer while working full time for EMS of Monmouth County.

    When EMS arrives and finds a body, my sister was the one who went down to examine the evidence and make an initial determination of cause of death. (My sister was an ER nurse 20 years ago).

    Asbury Park is a well known gay tourist area and this is apparently what a sizable percentage of gay tourists consider "vacation" because my sister evaluated about 30 homicides last summer before she quit because she could not take it anymore. (She is a widowed mother with no other means of support).

    While my sister had this job, I learned all about "vac-beds" and latex, the ins and outs of S/M, Bondage, torture, submission, pony boys, asphyxiation, genital mutilation, "wedding rings", disembowelment from fisting etc etc. Drugs and alcohol were always involved as well.

    I can see that you are uncomfortable with the well researched and documented truth that homosexual behavior is generally violent and dangerous. As I quoted in a previous post, the life expectancy of homosexual men is 20 years shorter than for heterosexual men.

    As I also mentioned in another post there are 4450 research articles on Medline/Pubmed, the NIH's database on sexual injuries suffered by homosexuals. Heterosexuals simply do not present themselves in the emergency room with gerbils in their colons, wedding rings stuck on their phallus, disemboweled from fisting, with their foreskins nailed to boards, unconscious from near asphyxiation due to bondage or asphyxiated in a vac beds (he was too late for the ER, his partner forgot to open the mouth hole before attaching the vacuum).

    It is also well documented by historians who study Ancient Greece, Rome and Nazi Germany that homosexuals make the best warriors because they have an extreme ability toward sadistic behavior.

    From Wiki:
    Ancient historians who recorded details of homosexuality present in the militaries of Greece:

    * Aristotle
    * Plato
    * Phaedrus
    * Plutarch
    * Athenaeus
    * Aristophanes
    * Xenophon
    * Socrates

    * Gay Warriors, by Burg, B. R., et al.; New York: New York University Press, 2002. ISBN 0-8147-9886-1.
    * Homosexuality and Civilization, by Crompton, Louis, et al.; Massachusetts: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 2003. ISBN 0-674-01197-X.
    * Percy, William A. Pederasty and Pedagogy in Archaic Greece, Urbana and Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 1996.

    You don't seem to like any of my sources but you have not posted any to refute them either.

    PS. I quoted Scott Lively previously in the post "Understanding the why the offensive gay parade". It was a mistake on my part to consider these one thread.

  13. It is not that I am uncomfortable with it. It is that I think you are biased because of religious convictions and then look for shoddy research to back up your biases. Your responses here and in other posts have only served to confirm that opinion for me.

    Do you still hold that Paul Cameron is a valid source? There *are* researchers that are biased, and let those biases guide their conclusions. (Including anti-semitic ones.) If you still maintain he is a valid source, then that is all I need to know.

    I do not feel the need to quote any studies to "refute" you (though Wikipedia did cite studies to refute Paul Cameron), since it is *you* that are trying to prove the ridiculous. My time is precious. And I feel no need to attempt to convince you, since I've participated in enough online "arguments" to recognize when the person on the other side is entrenched in his/her position. I post only to show *others* that what you say may well not be so.

    You cite me Aristotle as proof of the nature of gay men? Do *you* believe that men have more teeth than women, because men have a greater abundance of heat and blood?

    "As I quoted in a previous post, the life expectancy of homosexual men is 20 years shorter than for heterosexual men."
    And you know that it is violence, as opposed to AIDS, that has caused this?

    "Asbury Park is a well known gay tourist area and this is apparently what a sizable percentage of gay tourists consider "vacation" because my sister evaluated about 30 homicides last summer before she quit because she could not take it anymore."
    And perhaps because gays are better represented in this area, it was *they* who were victims of homocides. You have not shown causation. And your sister's experiences are anecdotes, not data.

    Because homosexual behavior is outside of the mainstream, it may well be that those already prone to extreme sexual behavior will engage in homosexuality as well, at a greater percentage. And that gays who are looking for partners find other people within this "underground." And there may be things about the present gay "scene" which involves a lot of drugs and dangerous activities. But correlation does not indicate causation.

    Your citations about ancient Greek is beside the point. So, warriors engaged in homosexuality. According to Wikipedia on pederasty,
    "In antiquity, pederasty as an educational institution for the inculcation of moral and cultural values."
    Does this mean that pederists were more moral and scholarly, and that these traits were the result of their being pederists?

    Kol Tuv,

  14. "And you know that it is violence, as opposed to AIDS, that has caused this?"

    The significantly decreased life expectancy of homosexual men is due to both violence and AIDS. AIDS is a symptom of a lifestyle which includes many random partners and anal penetration. Populations (heterosexual as well) that practice anal penetration have a higher prevalence of AIDS.

    "t is important to note that HIV, the virus causing AIDS, can be transmitted through anal sex, especially anal intercourse. In fact, the risk of HIV transmission is greater than it is in vaginal intercourse because the lining of the rectum tears more easily than the vagina does. The resulting skin breaks and bleeding increase the possibility of the transmission of bodily fluids containing the virus that causes AIDS."

    "Does this mean that pederasts were more moral and scholarly, and that these traits were the result of their being pederasts?"

    The homosexual rights movement would like us to believe that homosexuality is a more enlightened lifestyle that we as a society should accept and support.

    The societies of Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome and Nazi Germany also considered themselves more advanced and enlightened because they had freed themselves from the grasps of women. Women's roles in both Ancient Greece and Nazi Germany were reduced to that of perpetuation of the race.

    "the writer Simonides depicted women as different types of animals- women represented the forces of chaos. Women were viewed as highly sexual beings who could not control their sexual urges and therefore had to be restricted for their own benefit. Compare this, however, to his paradox in which he explains to the ancient Greeks, ‘woman is the consumer of men, their sex, their strength, their food, and their wealth, and the instigator of all evils in the world; yet without her, society cannot continue’. Euripides from his book ‘ Meda’ writes; ‘If only children could be got some other way without the female sex! If women didn’t exist, human life would be rid of all its miseries’. These two authors depict the most constant view of women in ancient times. Most men felt that women were only necessary to produce children."

    In Nazi Germany it was not considered a social problem if an unmarried woman had a child. In fact it was encouraged. The Nazis established Lebensborn’s which were buildings where selected unmarried women could go to get pregnant by a "racially pure" SS man. These were not buildings that were hidden away in some back street. The government openly publicized them and they had a white flag with a red dot in the middle to identify them to the public."

    Where are these societies today?
    Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.


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