Friday, February 18, 2011

Army conversions - attempts to resolving dispute


הפשרה החרדית: נכיר במתגיירים - אם לא יתחתנו

ניסיונות פשרה ערב הפגנת ההמונים נגד ההכרה בגיור: מן הצד הספרדי - דרישה לבדיקה מדוקדקת של פסיקת הרב עובדיה. מן הצד האשכנזי - דרישה להכרה בגיור "לחומרא". המשמעות: הגרים ייאלצו להתגרש בבתי הדין הרבניים, אך לא יוכלו להינשא


  1. Shavua Tov.

    This supposed "resolution" means nothing. Rav Amar knows very well that the minute full recognition isn't granted or converts are not married, the Knesset will immediately pass the Rotem law, forcing the State and its city rabbis to recognize State conversions (or be fired otherwise). This may also shake the coalition, which Rav Amar doesn't want.

    Rav Amar very much wants peace with the Litvaks, but he wants to uphold the authority and power of the Chief Rabbinate, in which he deeply believes, even more.

    If he does cave in and agree to some sort of compromise, the immediate result will be the Rotem law, Supreme Court intervention against rabbis who refuse to marry converts, and the ultimate collapse of the Chief Rabbinate.

    In my opinion that would actually be the best. Because when the rabbinate loses its monopoly any rabbi will be able to marry people according to Torah truth as he sees it, without being beholden to the corrupt State rabbinate. It is likely that Tzohar will become the address for marriage and Judaism for the larger population, while for the charedim, who never wanted to marry these people in the first place anyway, nothing will change.

  2. נפגש בנו של הרב עובדיה, הרב יצחק יוסף, עם הרב משה שטרנבוך, מבכירי הפוסקים בעדה החרדית - בניסיון לשכנעו כי הגיורים בצבא נעשים על פי ההלכה.

    Rav Yitzhak Yosef (son of R' Ovadiah) met with R Shternbuch, to convince him the conversions are done according to Halacha.

  3. Unfortunately, the "compromise" offered by the Ashkenazi side make matters worse than even their original position.

    To half recognize the conversions, where they can produce mamzerim, and not recognize those with legitimate children, or who are not married.
    This makes a mockery of their own position.

    My previous claims that they have reversed the position since the Langer case seem to have filtered through, right to the top.

    In the Langer case, there was no half conversion. Mr Borokowsky was recognised as a Jew in every respect, not as a half Jew.

    The new offer will create a bunch of half - Jews, who are only Jewish if there is a possibility their children are mamzerim; but not Jewish in any other situation.

    This shows the Ashkenazi side has no respect at all for the entire concept of conversion.

    It also proves they have seen their own contradiction (which I am sure the sephardim have pointed out to them, considering R'Yosef and R' Elyashiv sat on the same Bet Din in the original Langer case).

    To accept this "compromise" would be highly detrimental to the entire Sephardi and National religious world.

  4. A letter to Rav Ovadia Yosef that never arrived:

    There are also some comments about Rav Sternbuch's attitudes towards Rav Ovadia Yosef.

  5. Yossi,if shas and utj withdraw fron the coalition,it will bring down the gov.and close the knesset seesion,and the rotem law cannot pass.

  6. Eddie you obviously don't know enough details of this whole story.For example,it wasn't just r' yosef there and there was also a delegation by rav elyashiv.

  7. Eddie ,i see your still posting about the langer case.I first ignored you misinformation,but i see you continuing.I have no intrest in a full post about all the details.But i'll point out one thing,your post that chacham ovidah's position's shittah is the same all these years is wrong according to your logic tht rav elashiv's has changed.Do you know why?Just simple knoweldge of that case should give the nswer.

  8. What is going to eventually happen, is that the entire world will eventually recognize that the Zahal chain of command is our modern de facto Sanhedrin.

    Thus I hope and pray that the hareidim will become as stubborn as Pharoh, and confront the State. This will quicken their expulsion to Brooklyn and Monsey. Only then will Am Yisrael truly be a free people in its own land.


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