How does any of this make sense when many if not most Tzahal "gerim" are clearly not shomer Torah umitzvos from the beginning? Is Rav Yosef somehow not aware of the metzius on the ground?
there is very little that the Modern Rabbanut, be it the Israeli rabbanut, the IDF Rabbanut or the RCA in America - will do , that will be accepted by the Ashkenazi Haredi world. Their shechita is not accepted; nor any of their kashrut; heter mechira or any other modern solutuiion is not accepted; their Eruvim are not deeemd kosher; neither is their prayer nusach or siddurim, and i assume their mikvaot are also not accepted. So why should anyone expect their conversions to be accepted? R' Aron Rakkefet tells a story of a young man from Belz who got involved with a non Jewish woman, so the Hassidic court arranged a quickie conversion for her - and nobody batted an eye.
In all of the cases I have given , a financial motive can be found. The most obvious one is Kashrut. There is so much money involved in Kashrut, that nothing can be totally "kosher". Part of having a Glatt or super glatt hechsher is also charging super glatt prices. A regular chicken in Israel with a local rabbanut hecher is the fraction of the price of a super glatt one. Nobody can claim they are not influenced by financial benefit, because this would be to deny the Torah.
Troppenstein, are you suggesting that the way to determine whether a Beis Din is valid is by looking at the percentage of their gerim who are frum 10 years after the giyur? Or are you suggesting that a Beis Din that has a bad record in this regard needs to discover better ways to predict רמאות? Or are you suggesting that they just close down giyur as in the Syrian communities? Or are you suggesting that only Tropper style Batei Din can determine what's in a גר or גיורת heart? Or are you suggesting that only potential Charedim be allowed to start a giyur process because only חרדי = יהודי שומר תורה ומצוות Or what?
From all indications in Israel including the letters from the leading Ashkenazi Torah sages, it is obvious that Tzahal gerim are not mekabel mitzvos. They did not write similar letters against gerim through the national religious / modern orthodox outside of the Israeli military.
". They did not write similar letters against gerim through the national religious / modern orthodox outside of the Israeli military."
Actually they did. Have you forgotten the hoo-hah against R' Druckman's conversion courts? In any case, even the Rabbanut conversions are looked down upon, and they are not always accepted either.
Eddie, i expect full links to the story you claim of the belzer chassid.And how it happend,did the beis din know it was a fraud etc...And there is a major diffrence if where and when the rabbnim speak publicly on something.Depending if it was a single case,or thousands.
How does any of this make sense when many if not most Tzahal "gerim" are clearly not shomer Torah umitzvos from the beginning? Is Rav Yosef somehow not aware of the metzius on the ground?
ReplyDeletethere is very little that the Modern Rabbanut, be it the Israeli rabbanut, the IDF Rabbanut or the RCA in America - will do , that will be accepted by the Ashkenazi Haredi world.
ReplyDeleteTheir shechita is not accepted; nor any of their kashrut; heter mechira or any other modern solutuiion is not accepted; their Eruvim are not deeemd kosher; neither is their prayer nusach or siddurim, and i assume their mikvaot are also not accepted.
So why should anyone expect their conversions to be accepted?
R' Aron Rakkefet tells a story of a young man from Belz who got involved with a non Jewish woman, so the Hassidic court arranged a quickie conversion for her - and nobody batted an eye.
In all of the cases I have given , a financial motive can be found. The most obvious one is Kashrut. There is so much money involved in Kashrut, that nothing can be totally "kosher". Part of having a Glatt or super glatt hechsher is also charging super glatt prices. A regular chicken in Israel with a local rabbanut hecher is the fraction of the price of a super glatt one.
Nobody can claim they are not influenced by financial benefit, because this would be to deny the Torah.
Troppenstein, are you suggesting that the way to determine whether a Beis Din is valid is by looking at the percentage of their gerim who are frum 10 years after the giyur? Or are you suggesting that a Beis Din that has a bad record in this regard needs to discover better ways to predict רמאות? Or are you suggesting that they just close down giyur as in the Syrian communities? Or are you suggesting that only Tropper style Batei Din can determine what's in a גר or גיורת heart? Or are you suggesting that only potential Charedim be allowed to start a giyur process because only חרדי = יהודי שומר תורה ומצוות Or what?
ReplyDeleteIsaac Balbin
From all indications in Israel including the letters from the leading Ashkenazi Torah sages, it is obvious that Tzahal gerim are not mekabel mitzvos. They did not write similar letters against gerim through the national religious / modern orthodox outside of the Israeli military.
ReplyDeletetranslation?
ReplyDelete". They did not write similar letters against gerim through the national religious / modern orthodox outside of the Israeli military."
ReplyDeleteActually they did. Have you forgotten the hoo-hah against
R' Druckman's conversion courts?
In any case, even the Rabbanut conversions are looked down upon, and they are not always accepted either.
Eddie, i expect full links to the story you claim of the belzer chassid.And how it happend,did the beis din know it was a fraud etc...And there is a major diffrence if where and when the rabbnim speak publicly on something.Depending if it was a single case,or thousands.
ReplyDeleteEddie,you should know the chareidi opinion years ago of the rabbunut was much better.It's not their fault certain stories took place.
ReplyDelete