Thursday, February 10, 2011

Is Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar, shlita pulling a Tropper?

BHOL
Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar, shlita has accepted the validity of army converts based upon the ruling of Rav Ovadia Yosef, shlita. But Rav Ovadia Yosef, shlita has clearly poskened that a ger is only kosher if he fully accepts mitzvos. In reality the vast majority of army converts do not and on that fact there is no disagreement! Rav Yosef also writes in his teshuva that even though the Rambam says that a ger that reverts to non observance is still kosher - but that is only if there was a clear period where he was actually observant. But there is no doubt that the majority of these converts were never observant!

11 comments :

  1. I just read from someone whose son wanted to convert in the army, that he decided not to, because he would have had to "fake it" for some time and lie to the rabbis...

    So at least, there seems to be a requirement to keep mitzwot. If they check on candidates whether they really keep them and how much may be another question.

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  2. Troppenstein's monsterFebruary 10, 2011 at 3:27 AM

    Are there any modern / national religious rabbis besides Rabbi Stav that agree with the Charedim that Tzhal conversions are a farce? I am pleasantly surprised to see an associate of Rabbi Druckman agree with the gedolei hador.

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  3. Rav Ovadia was involved in this decision to accept the army converts. And he remembers his own teshuvos.
    So the question is not on Rav Amar.

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  4. Not fair to associate r' Amar with Tropper. The photo was taken in 2006. R' Amar broke with Tropper years before r' Elyasiv who until 2010 was still taking pictures with the menuval.

    R' Kanievsky recieved Tropper just last month.

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  5. Recipients and PublicityFebruary 10, 2011 at 3:03 PM

    Armies are good for fighting wars, they are not religious institutions. Rabbis in armies serve as chaplains and are beholden to the armies.

    Yes, sadly, this does look like the type of proselytization that Tropper conducted under the banner of EJF.

    Tropper hid it under a cloak of secrecy and frumkeit and claimed he was "raising standards" and similarly Rav Amar is beguiled by his own propaganda that he is somehow "benefiting the Jewish people and Israel" by allowing less than perfect geirim into the ranks of Klal Yisrael.

    It would be one thing if Rav Amar would PERSONALLY take geirim under his wing, educate them, supervise them closely, and witness for himself what the end result is and who is worthy of being converted. But he is NOT doing that! Instead he is relying on very weak teachers and military chaplain types who are producing converts in conveyor belt fashion based on flimsy education. When this involves tens of thousands of people it has the makings of a catastrophe.

    Rav Amar's motives and impetus are unclear. Is he being naive about the whole situation? Is he in someone's pocket perhaps, like Tropper's type of backers? Is he just deluding himself and being misguided? He is a learned man, but in this case, as a Sefardi rabbi dealing with Ashkenazi issues (the Russians fall under the purvue of the Ashkenazim mainly) he is way out of his depth and purview.

    Rav Amar needs to reassess his actions before he falls into a metaphoric pit from which he will be unable to extricate himself, to his eternal shame, ch"v.

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  6. I object strenuously to the title of this post. It's one thing to have a machloqes about the validity of someone beis din's conversions. It's another to compare two people because they both did so -- when one of those to people also manipulated somoene he led into perverted sexual liasons, lied his way into creating numerous other scandals, broke up marriages, etc...

    R' Amar doesn't deserve the comparison.

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  7. micha:

    Your silence was deafening when Rav Eisenstein shlit"a was subjected to the same comparison as Rav Amar here.

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  10. Ben Torah: I have no idea when RDE made such a comparison between R' Eisenstein and Tropper. Referring to RME's on-again-off-again relationship with EJF is a discussion of fact, and a search of this blog does not show a single instance of his being lumped together with that sexual deviant who founded EJF as two of a kind. But a search of the blog only means the blog, that little entry form in the top left doesn't search comments.

    Why assume to read something into my silence rather than simply that I missed it? Shouldn't a "Ben Torah" also practice Avos 1:6?

    -micha

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  11. In 2006, tropper was not really known outside of his specific circles, and he was funding a broad spectrum of Yeshivot, and sending donations to all of the Gedolei Torah. Initially, many people attended the EJF meetings. SOme pulled out when they got bad vibes about tropper.

    the sarcastic comment about R' Amar is not very helpful, since it is trying to tarnish his name, especially because of the IDF conversions.

    They are separate cases. In fact, tropper was opposed to Druckman conversions as well as IDF. SOme of the Dayanim who disqualified the Druckman converts, spoke at a few of the EJF conferences. So where would this kind of logic lead us? moreover, most of the opponents of the Druckman courts were supporters of EJF and Tropper!

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