Sunday, September 30, 2018

rs Rechnitz

10 comments :

  1. I find his style of speaking quite interesting. Every statement of significance seems to be prefaced with "Well I'm not really saying that but..." or "It's probably not like this but..." What is wrong with simply coming out and saying what one thinks?

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  2. This is a very interesting point regarding the Torah She B'al peh - the Tzedukim (Sadducees) who denied the oral Law, also denied this ceremony - Water Libation. The Gemara (if I recall correctly) says that the Kohen gadol refused to perform it and instead used the water to wash his feet, and was pelted with Etrogim by the direct ancestors of the the Yeshiva bochers in this video. According to Josephus, it was King Yannai, who was a sadducee-friendly king, and he waged war upon the "Pharisees".

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  3. Eddie says “This is a very interesting point regarding the Torah She B'al peh - the Tzedukim (Sadducees) who denied the oral Law, also denied this ceremony - Water Libation. The Gemara (if I recall correctly) says that the Kohen gadol refused to perform it and instead used the water to wash his feet, and was pelted with Etrogim by the direct ancestors of the Yeshiva bochers in this video. According to Josephus, it was King Yannai, who was a sadducee-friendly king, and he waged war upon the "Pharisees".”
    See http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14551
    The Encyclopedia Judaica (vol. 8) states:
    “When he came to power, Herod took absolute control of the government by putting to death 45 members of the Sanhedrin who supported the Hasmoneans.” (376)
    “He also made the appointment to the high priesthood dependent on his favor and during his reign dismissed and appointed high priests arbitrarily.” (379)
    Baba Bathra 3b-4a states:
    “Who are they, he said, who teach, you shall be free to set a king over yourself, one chosen by the Lord your God. Be sure to set as king over yourself one of your own people; you must not set a foreigner over you, one who is not your kinsman (Deut. 17:15). The Rabbis! He [Herod] therefore arose and killed all the Rabbis, sparing, however, Baba b. Buta, that he might take counsel of him. He placed on his head a garland of hedgehog bristles and put out his eyes
    Sanhedrin 19a-19b states:
    “Because of an incident which happened with a slave of King Jannai [Herod] who killed a man. Simeon b. Shetah said to the Sages: “Set your eyes boldly upon him and let us judge him.” So they sent the King word, saying: “Your slave has killed a man.” Thereupon he sent him [Herod] to them [to be tried].”
    Eddie, I don’t like your smearing the Yeshiva bochers in this video. King Yannai was horrible. I write “People are mistaken to praise Herod for his building of the Temple, ampitheaters, and other edifices. This is like praising Stalin for his building the Moscow subways and trains.”

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  4. Sorry Gerald, you got your facts wrong. Yannai and Herod were 2 different people and lived at 2 different times. You are relying on you own essay which is mistaken.


    I am not smearing the Yeshiva bochurs, they are the spiritual heirs of the Tannaim, or at least aspire to be. the Tannaim observed Beis shoeveah, which is only known to us through the Oral Law, whereas the Tsedukim denied it, since it is not explicit in the Written Torah.
    Herod was not a Sadducee, was not a Kohen Gadol and was not even a proper jew. If Chazal praised him then you have a problem with Chaza, not me, don't shoot the messenger.

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  5. This is from wikipedia:

    During the Jewish holiday of Feast of Tabernacles, Alexander Jannaeus, while officiating as the High Priest at the Temple in Jerusalem, demonstrated his support of the Sadducees by refusing to perform the water libation
    ceremony properly: instead of pouring it on the altar, he poured it on
    his feet. The crowd responded with shock at his mockery and showed their
    displeasure by pelting Alexander with the etrogim (citrons)
    that they were holding in their hands. Outraged, he ordered soldiers to
    kill those who insulted him, more than 6,000 people in the Temple
    courtyard were massacred. With further frustration, Alexander had wooden
    barriers build around the altars preventing people from sacrificing and
    deny daily offerings except for the priests. He also allied himself
    with foreign troops such as the Pisidians and the Cilicians who would later help his regime during the civil war.[17]
    This incident during the Feast of Tabernacles was a major factor
    leading up to the Judean Civil War by igniting popular opposition to
    Jannaeus.[18][19]

    Overall, the war lasted six years and left 50,000 Judeans dead.
    After Jannaeus succeeded early in the war, the rebels asked for Seleucid
    assistance. Judean insurgents joined forces with Demetrius III Eucaerus to fight against Jannaeus. The Seleucid forces defeated Jannaeus at Shechem
    and forced him to take refuge in the mountains. However, these Judean
    rebels ultimately decided that it was better to live under a terrible
    Jewish king than return to a Seleucid ruler. After 6,000 Jews returned
    to Jannaeus, Demetrius was defeated. The end of the Civil War brought a
    sense of national solidarity against Seleucid influence. Nevertheless,
    Jannaeus was uninterested in reconciliation within the Judean State.[17][19]
    The aftermath of the Judean Civil War consisted of popular
    unrest, poverty and grief over the fallen soldiers on both sides. The
    greatest impact of the war was the victor's revenge. Josephus reports
    that Jannaeus brought 800 Pharisee rebels to Jerusalem and had them
    crucified, and had the throats of the rebel's wives and children cut
    before their eyes as Jannaeus ate with his concubines






    As you can see, Jannaeus (Yannai) was not such a lovely fellow, and I am wondering if the sinnas chinam that is mentioned in the Gemara is rooted in this Jewish civil war? The Pharisees, who were presumably the frum jews, also joined Demetrius, ie the enemy who we fought in the Chanuka story, to help them fight against Yannai.



    So , for example, is it Ok for the Orthodox Jews to join with the Nazis to fight the karaites, because they disagree on the Oral Law? (or the Zionists?)


    This issue is not so much the dispute itself, it is how this led to bloody civil war, and perhaps may have weakened Israel to lose the temple as well.

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  6. Eddie says “Sorry Gerald, you got your facts wrong. Yannai and Herod were 2 different people and lived at 2 different times. You are relying on you own essay which is mistaken. I am not smearing the Yeshiva bochurs, they are the spiritual heirs of the Tannaim, or at least aspire to be. the Tannaim observed Beis shoeveah, which is only known to us through the Oral Law, whereas the Tsedukim denied it, since it is not explicit in the Written Torah.Herod was not a Sadducee, was not a Kohen Gadol and was not even a proper Jew.”
    There’s much in the Gamara on Janni and Herod. I bring direct quotes in my essay, thank you, Eddie. I live in Bnei Brak directly across---I see from window---Shimon ben Shetach Street. I’m clear in my essay that Herod was the slave of King Jannai. Thanks for your comments Eddie. Shimon ben Shetach is my hero. I respect the Yeshiva bochers deeply. We all should, yes? Are you Jewish, Eddie? Are you reform?

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  7. No, I'm a secret sadducee high priest, so don't throw your etrog at me.

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  8. Alexander yannai died in 76 bce, whereas Herod was born in 73 bce _ 3 years later. No connection whatsoever.

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  9. Gerald says:" I respect the Yeshiva bochers deeply. We all should, yes?"
    The story of the etrogim is not something I made up, it is in the Gemara.

    Mir is a wonderful yeshiva, why should I disrespect them?
    That doesn't mean that anyone who goes to a yeshiva has carte blanche to behave like thugs. Rav Shach must be turning in his grave if he would have known what has become of his Yeshiva, and the violence between the various groups there.

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  10. Gerald, did you know that once upon a time, Kol Isha was not only not forbidden, but it was part of the Temple service! I do not mean a Conservative Temple, i mean the Beit HaMikdash:

    7 נְחֶמְיָה

    סז מִלְּבַד עַבְדֵיהֶם וְאַמְהֹתֵיהֶם, אֵלֶּה--שִׁבְעַת
    אֲלָפִים, שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת שְׁלֹשִׁים וְשִׁבְעָה; וְלָהֶם, מְשֹׁרְרִים
    וּמְשֹׁרְרוֹת--מָאתַיִם, וְאַרְבָּעִים וַחֲמִשָּׁה.

    and

    35 דִּבְרֵי הַיָּמִים ב

    כה וַיְקוֹנֵן יִרְמְיָהוּ, עַל-יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ, וַיֹּאמְרוּ
    כָל-הַשָּׁרִים וְהַשָּׁרוֹת בְּקִינוֹתֵיהֶם עַל-יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ
    עַד-הַיּוֹם, וַיִּתְּנוּם לְחֹק עַל-יִשְׂרָאֵל; וְהִנָּם כְּתוּבִים,
    עַל-הַקִּינוֹת.


    So Either you accuse Yirmiyahu and Nehemiah of being "open orthodox", or you have to open your mind. Opening your mind is not the same as being a goy!

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