Tuesday, May 3, 2022

latest on greenblatt kaminetsy heter for adultery from Joe Orlow

this is a copy of a letter I sent to a Rav in the U.S.

Dear Rabbi [redacted],

As you are aware, I am part of a team that holds that the Halacha has been severely compromised by the actions of men considered to be Gadolei Yisrael in America.

To your credit, you have defended these men. You have challenged my attacks on these men. And you have done it from the best of places and purest of motives: your adherence to the principle that decisors of Halacha are to be given the greatest deference.

Yet, I think the Rav should be aware of some new developments on the Epstein-Friedman front.

I have spoken to Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky several times. The first time was several years ago when Tamar Epstein declared she was free from her marriage. She made this declaration despite her husband being alive and well, and despite his not giving her a Get. For the record, she was married to him with Kiddushin.

At that time, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky made light of the matter. He declined to speak in depth with me about it, and referred me to his son.

In a follow up call two years ago, after Tamar remarried, Rabbi Kamenetsky told me that one may rely on Rabbi Greenblatt as far as the legitimacy of Tamar's remarriage. He acknowledged that there are other Rabbis who hold the remarriage is not legitimate.

In a recent call, Rabbi Kamenetsky again said one may rely on Rabbi Greenblatt, while acknowledging that Rabbi Dovid Feinstein holds the remarriage was not permitted. He made it clear that he, Rabbi Kamenetsky, was not involved in the Heter given to Tamar to remarry.

Rabbi Kamenetsky is apparently a liar. Before Tamar received her Heter, Rabbi Kamenetsky was sending out letters to other Rabbis to induce them to provide the Heter. Recently, Rabbi Nota Greenblatt told me he was contacted by Rabbi Kamenetsky and his son Rabbi Shalom Kamenetsky regarding finding a way for Tamar to remarry without a Get.

On the face of it, Rabbi Kamenetsky was not only involved in the issuance of the Heter. He was also the impetus behind finding the Heter.

Furthermore, the Kamenetskys gave Rabbi Greenblatt the contact information for a mental health professional. Rabbi Greenblatt called this professional. Rabbi Greenblatt told me that the testimony of this professional became the basis of the Heter Tamar received.

So Rabbi Kamenetsky's involvement was critical to the issuance of the Heter. In fact, the Heter might not have come about except for the Kamenetskys supplying to Rabbi Greenblatt the contact info for the mental health professional.

Rabbi Dovid Feinstein's Bais Din determined that Tamar's remarriage was not permitted, as I mentioned above. Two years have passed since I notified Rabbi Hillel David by telephone and Rabbi Dovid Feinstein (both sat on the Bais Din) via email that Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky has not told Tamar Epstein to separate from her second husband, Adam Fleischer. This is despite both Rabbis Kamenetsky giving the world the impression that they adhere to the decision of the Feinstein Bais Din, a Bais Din that was convened for one and only one reason: to determine Tamar Epstein's marital status and issue a ruling for Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, and Rabbi Kamenetsky alone.

Furthermore, the Feinstein Bais Din never ordered Tamar Epstein and Adam Fleischer to separate.

In conclusion, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky is your Gadol. The man is a liar. And he facilitated the ongoing Halachic adultery of Tamar Epstein. He has it within his power to stop the Halachic adultery, and does not. He thus carries the sin. And so does the Feinstein Bais Din. Rabbi Kamenetsky is a Rasha. Rabbi Dovid Feinstein is fitting to be put in Nidui.

I admire that you will read all this and still maintain that the Rosh Yeshiva in Philadelphia is someone I should recognize as the greatest Gadol in America.

I will not do so. In no way does that diminish my respect for you. As long as I have strength, I will continue this fight against those who tear down the Halacha. And I will do it precisely out of my respect for you and other Jews.

You deserve better Gadolim than Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky and his son Rabbi Shalom Kamenetsky who is reportedly designated to one day to become the next head of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of the Agudath Israel of America.

Joe Orlow


  1. Post his response please

  2. Good idea, Eddie. If the Rav responds, and gives me permission.

    Last summer, as some may recall, I had a daily protest for much of the Summer on behalf of Aharon Friedman. The Shuls where I protested are among those that exclude Aharon.

    This Rav, among others, challenged me -- counter-protested, if you will. He Davens, for some Minyanim, at the Shul where I Daven when he comes to this area to visit family. He Davens at other Shuls as well, so it is that he knows me and I encountered him while protesting.

    This Rabbi comes from a large extended family whose members trace their lineage to a Rabbinic ancestor from several hundred years ago whose name many would recognize. His father started a Yeshiva in Eretz Yisrael. I could say more, but don't want to give out too much identifying info, only to make the point that he is learned, well known, and one of the princes of our nation with a sterling reputation and an illustrious career teaching Torah.

    In the strongest terms possible he condemned my protest. He acknowledged that what Rabbi Kamenetsky has done is wrong. But he excuses Rabbi Kamenetsky. Because, as far as I can make out, Rabbi Kamenetsky is a Gadol.

    This is the background to my letter to him.

  3. Eddie says “Post his response please.”
    Eddie, please tell us about yourself. Are you still a supporter of Rabbi Kamenetsky? Are you a supporter of Open Orthodoxy, particularly Rabbi Weiss? See https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/22438
    Are you a supporter of ORA?
    Bravo what Joe Orlow is doing! Well reasoned/argued. I say that the named professional doesn’t exist, or if he exists, that letter was a forgery Susan wrote etc. It’s too fantastic for a real professional to really write such a letter without meeting the husband etc.

  4. Why is adultery bad, but murder us OK?

  5. Sorry - I am looking at the implications.
    You are calling one Gadol a rasha because he permits adultery. There are other hareidi Gedolim, often cited, who support Iran, and oppose Zionists who protest against Iran. They are in alliance with Iran, which has the status of Amalek, and rodef Israel. The undisputed Gadol haDor Rav Yosef Henkin said that anyone who opposes the Israeli State (after it gained independence) is a rodef B'Yisrael.

    So why is Adultery better than Murder?

  6. It's the difference between a Rube Goldberg-type contraption to murder someone and an actual gun.

    In other words, someone supports Iran, opposes Zionists, and therefore somewhere down the line their butterfly wing flapping may cause a storm of warfare that leads to people dying. Ok. Things could play out that way.

    Contrast that with a woman getting a Rabbi Greenblatt Heter and that day remarrying and conceiving a Mamzer.

  7. he was not undisputed gadol hador

  8. we are dealing with a case of adultery not murder

    according to your logic both are good

  9. How about real murder, not hypothetical convoluted theoretical ones.

    "Settler Girls At War And Terror,
    One of them is the bride at whose wedding the Hilltop Youth danced their notorious dance celebrating the arson-murders! of a palestinian baby and his sleeping parents."


  10. "“I was depressed all this week. I can’t smile,” she said. It had been only seven days since the murder
    of the Fogel family, who lived down the road. The mother, Ruthi, was
    Roni’s teacher. As Tamar, the Fogels’ 12-year-old daughter, told
    reporters, around midnight she came home from a Bnei Akiva youth meeting
    to find her mother Ruthi lying in a pool of blood and her home the site
    of a massacre—her mother, father, two younger brothers, and 3-month-old
    sister all slaughtered with knives. Two of her younger brothers

    lee pen is a Rodef - you care about the poor Palestinians, but yo do not consider Jews to be humans. Are you an Amalekite?

  11. I'm not inclined to berate a personality by some, but their is an underlying reason that such leaders come out from 'within' the community, of the halacha aspect, somethings are obvious, and on others I'm not qualified to give an "halchicaly' opinion.

  12. I have a few names to call you to by it, besides "Crazy Eddie" from N.J., but I'll save it for shabos 'zucer' .

    ps: How about the numerous thousands of Palestinians killed by the IDF [legally], can their families take revenge c"v to? or is there "law and order" for everyone to abide by in the "Democratic" israel.

  13. Crazy Eddie closed down years ago, as did moe gisnburgh 馃槃

  14. It's a state of war. In 47/48 there were 2 wars before and after independence. They didn't accept any borders. If Hamas/plo/Isis/Hezbollah/Iran succeed, there will be a 2nd holocaust. Rav Shach, Rav Moshe, Rav henkin, Rav yosef, Lubavitcher rebbe etc all understood this.

  15. No, both are bad. Equally.

  16. Some fools also supported Nazi Germany.

  17. Ishmael is Saudi Arabia , they made peace with us. They remember we are cousins. Iranian regime is amalek.

  18. "conceiving a Mamzer."
    Is that where it's holding now, hence the big stress level in Philly?

  19. "Kasztners Crime". This book reexamines one of the most intense controversies of the Holocaust: the role of Rezs Kasztner in "facilitating the murder" of most of Nazi-occupied Hungary’s Jews in 1944.


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