Thursday, February 28, 2008

The mountain produced a mouse or you call this a defense of EJF!?I

Recipients and Publicity wrote:

In reply to "anonymous from yesterday":

The following is most of your response, the analysis and reply to it will begind with "RaP":

"Why don't you save us the effort and tell us Rav Eisenstein's understanding of Rav Eliashiv concerning EJF. It would also be helpful if you tell us Rav Dovid's views since you acknowledge that you are very familiar with them."

"I can tell you in short."

RaP: Why only "in short" when you come on this blog and criticize others and now it seems that you lack information yourself to talk at length.

"If you want something more detailed, I will have to go back to my sources."

RaP: This again is chutzpah, after you make Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn take down posts by claiming that things that were said are not true, then you turn around and say in effect that you do not know all the facts, because someone who says "I will have to go back to my sources" means they do not have all the facts at their fingertips so how can you be believed when you claim that other information is not correct? Maybe you are just acting, and when it suits you, you say you know that some things are lies, but when pressed for more details about other things, you plead ignorance and ask for time out to "go back to your sources" so which is it, you do or do not know the whole story? And if you are defending EJF you need to know the whole story inside-out, because those on the outside of EJF do not know the story because EJF keeps the world in the dark, making it inevitable that inquiring minds will draw conclusions based on what is or isn't said, including research on the Internet. So if you know only half the story stay home till you learn the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and tell the world that you have nothing to hide and neither does EJF.

"Rav Elyashiv gave his blessings to EJF from its earliest months. Long before EJF came on the scene, Rav Elyashiv encouraged his people [including Rav Eisenstein and Rav Kreiswirth] to found the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giyur to deal with many of the same problems."

RaP: Now the above is a very, very tricky answer, but you are not going to get away with it. This has been EJF's ploy from the start, to somehow or other wrap itself in the cloth of "Rav Eisenstein and Rav Kreiswirth to found the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei" which is a false claim because EJF and the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur were on different tracks at their birth. They come from different wombs and different mothers legamri. But you only hint at it by saying "Long before EJF came on the scene, Rav Elyashiv encouraged his people" which is true, but they were NOT thinking of EJF when they were making their plans. This should be very clear, that the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur and its Beis Din LeInyanei Giur was ach verak the brainchild of Rav Chaim Kreiswirth zt"l who passed away in 2001 !!! But EJF was only founded in 2005 and it is impossible that Rav Kreiswirth, who was an Odom Godol and pikeiach and wished to STEM and STOP false geirim and not to set up a process to help goyim become Jews. In other words Rav Kreiswith's goal was to create BARRIERS of Halachic checks and balances, whereas EJF's goal is to OPEN THE GATES and grease the wheels and help gentiles get "top class" conversions. So we would really need to know what Rav Kreiswith was thinking, because he was the one who was the mover and shaker to set up the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur and its beis din. Probably, the only ones who could tell us what Rav Kreiswirth was thinking and intended is perhaps by asking his son Rav Dov Kreiswirth and close associates like Dayan Tuvia Weiss and Dayan Elya Sternbuch of Antwerp. So sure, many rabbonim and all batei din deal "with many of the same problems" but to imply that somehow there is an automatic connection between the early years and founding of Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur (founded before 2001), and the founding of the EJF (founded 2005)is a stretch of the imagination. Finally, Rav Eisenstein was actually chosen to be Rav Kreiswirth's point man, but would Rav Kreiswith follow a written BADATZ ruling or hear-say and claims that this or that rov said or did not say.

"Rav Elyashiv's shaliach, R' Eisenstein, was happy to take an active role in EJF when it did come along. The support has grown since then. EJF is in continual contact with R' Eisenstein. Also, less importantly, Rav Eisenstein has participated, to my knowledge, in every EJF conference."

RaP: Yes, this seems true. That is because Rav Eisenstein was looking for any foothold in America because for a long time the American Rabbonim did not want him to come to the USA and preach his doctrines of divisiveness (not a bad thing according to some) but not suited for building alliances and Rabbi Tropper learned the hard way. Even ten years ago, around 1999, in response to giur problems when Rav Eliashiv sent his REAL right hand man, Rav Efrati to America to ask the Agudath Israel of America to start a data base for a sefer yuchsin so that it could be inscribed who is a Jew and who is not, the Agudah Rabbonim turned it down as being too divisive as they were not looking to create an open schism with the Modern Orthodox rabbinate more than already existed. This is because there are still many family and personal ties between many people in the yeshiva velt and the Modern Orthodox velt and there are many communal, political and personal reasons that Agudah in America has avoided confrontations with the Modern Orthdox, and Rav Tropper really to his credit was working within this "misgeret" or framework, but Rav Eisenstein obviosly has other ways of functioning. So to claim that there was this happy union is false, it was and is a marriage of convenience, Rav Eisenstein needs a podium and a platform for his divisive agenda (it's actually a good one, he wants to keep out weak conversions and those who help that) but EJF needs all the rabbinical support it can get, especially in Israel, so for them Rav Eisenstien is a link to the more Charedi world that then links up with Rav Eliashiv. But Rav Eliashiv is not sitting there in his room cheering on every non-Jew who wishes to convert, no doubt he is praying that less, not more gentiles will want to, or apply for, conversions.

As to Rav Dovid Feinstein, a well-known mashba"k from Eretz Yisroel was in America for medical treatment. He met Rav Dovid Feinstein and asked him about EJF. R' Dovid did not automatically approve it because his brother, Rav Reuven, heads it. Rather, he said that he had received several queries about EJF and had researched it carefully. He said, in Yiddish, that they are machmir on all the chumros and the things they do are lichatchilah shebilichatchilah. He may have added a couple more positive points, but I would have to check back with my sources.

RaP: Listen have some sechel and don't embarrass Rav Dovid for your own reasons. Rav Dovid Feinstein is probabaly the wrong person to ask this pesak since his brother rav Reuven is tied in with Rav Tropper and is publicly very strongly associated with EJF even though, for all his attachment and willingness to be photographed for EJF, he has not issed an approval in wrting as far as is known. Listen to your own words here. After screaming and shouting that someone must call up Rav Dovid Feinstein to get his views on EJF you now say that we have to rely on hearsay from someon in Israel, in Yiddish?, that you are not even sure about, about who was this person that claims they heard from Rav Dovid. What kind of proof is that and your words: "He said, in Yiddish, that they are machmir on all the chumros and the things they do are lichatchilah shebilichatchilah" but what pray are they "machmir" in, as if anyone is supposed to know? Are they "machmir" in their zeal to mekarev gentiles and megayer them? No doubt they mean well, that is not the question, but who are they even? Who is the staff? What is the curriculum? What if a thousand concerned ehrliche yidden are reading this post and they all call Rav Dovid Feinstein or anyone, is that a normal or reasonable thing to say and then they will be told that EJF is "machmir", very nice, but it means nothing when no written detils are offered.

Torah SheBeal Peh is great, but first comes Torah SheBichtav!

EJF must come up with written Haskommas soon or they will face a blizzard of more written attacks from the BADATZ that will force anyone associated with them to withdraw just as the written protests of the Rabbonim closed down the MBD concert in Israel and now the Lipa concert in America.

1 comment :

  1. The Jewish Week reports:


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