Yevamos (99b) R. Eleazar b. Zadok said, ‘During the whole of my lifetime I have given evidence but once, and through my statement they raised a slave to the priesthood’. ‘They raised’? Is such an error conceivable! If through the beasts of the righteous the Holy One does not cause an offence to be committed, how much less through the righteous themselves! — Rather, read. ‘They desired to raise a slave to the priesthood, through my statement’. He witnessed the occurrence in the place of R. Jose. but went and tendered his evidence in the place of R. Judah.
All this teaches is that viable edus can have practical effects.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of the old exchange from decades ago.
ReplyDeleteThe Gedolim(tm) are infallible.
Oh, I thought only God is perfect.
Yes, only God is perfect.
So maybe The Gedolim(tm) made a mistake?
Afra b'pumah! They're infallible!
What a stupid, superficial analogy. Infallible here means that Hashem who is perfect protects them from errors. Not that they are perfect. Sigh. What an idiot. And I certainly won't go to Canada for you to perform medical malpractice on me
DeleteIf that were true, then Maseches Horayos would not exist.
DeleteEvery single thing in that could be hypothetical and never happened
DeleteExcept it did happen - just see Yirimiahu for example, where it says Tofsei Torah Lo Yadooni - and Rashi says "Sanhedrin"
Deleteוְתֹֽפְשֵׂ֚י הַתּוֹרָה֙ לֹ֣א יְדָע֔וּנִי
Deletehttps://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15999/jewish/Chapter-2.htm
v.8
So Bill Am, here is a question regarding infallibility - The Talmud recalls an episode when Rashbi was hiding in a cave to escape the Romans, and stayed there for a long time (20 years?)
DeleteWhen he comes out, he sees some people engaged in working the land, and burns them with his eyes. He is told to go back into the cave, because he has yet to learn how to deal with other people. So Rashbi is a great Tzaddik - nobody would argue with that. He makes a mistake, and has to work on himself for another lengthy period before he can come out of the cave again. So wouldn't this count as a taut?
Well technically Rashbi was right - people should be sitting in kollel and hoping food and water will just magically appear to keep them sustained. It's not that he didn't know how to deal with people. It's that people just weren't up to his standards.
DeleteThe gemora notes that the view of the Rashbi is not for everybody and the Chofetz Chaim notes it is only for the elite
DeleteThere's a myth that the CC would be asked to walk in fields in Poland for the farmers to be successful. Did he take a flamethrower with him?
DeleteThe problem is that the Chazon Ish and his successors opposed the gemara and said "Yep, that view is for everyone."
DeleteWhich view are we talking about here?
DeleteThe problem I raised was him burning regular guys working in the fields. The "view" that is an elite view is likely referring to isolation in a cave to ponder on pardes.
It's not the view that it's ok to burn people up.
That also was not the view of the chazon ISH.
He was burning the farmers because they should've been sitting and learning Torah. Learn, don't earn! And if you don't, then burn! That is the system the Chazon Ish invented ostensibly to rebuild the destroyed yeshiva world but which has become the new "It was alway like this!" system.
DeleteAs far as I know, rashbi _ undoubtedly a great tzaddik - was very wrong in this khamenei type behaviour, such that a bat kol tells him to go back and learn properly.
DeleteThe chazon ISH did nothing of the sort. He visited farms and gave them advice on how to solve halachic problems eg milking cows on Shabbat.
He didn't burn any farmers.
The yehareg vlo yaavor was about the female draft, and that was a mass suicide threat. Which never took place.