It is a tragedy when gedolim make mistakes - especially serious ones. It is an even bigger tragedy when they refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and make amends as the Torah requires. But worst of all when is they are being held as paragons of virtue - when they clearly aren't. Please note the topics to be discussed and please note the hypocrisy.
“It is a tragedy when gedolim make mistakes - especially serious ones. It is an even bigger tragedy when they refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and make amends as the Torah requires.”
ReplyDeleteMaybe this explains the silence: Pacer:
“It is ORDERED that the brief for Appellant(s) and the joint appendix shall be filed and served
on or before 06/20/2016. If the appeal is challenging a criminal sentence, four (4) copies of the
Presentence Investigation Report shall be filed in sealed envelopes.
It is FURTHER ORDERED that the consolidated brief for Appellee shall be filed and served
within twenty-one (21) days of service of Appellant's brief.
It is FURTHER ORDERED that a reply brief, if any, shall be filed and served within
fourteen (14) days of service of Appellee's brief.”
The gedolim involved with Mendel Epstein et al are fearful and silent until the case is over.
Everyone should call the organization and tell them how disgusting this is.
ReplyDeleteI'm feeling "enlightened" already.
ReplyDeleteExamine the picture of Rabbi Kamenetsky. Is he showing the proper way to encourage a husband to give a Get -- by throwing a right? His talk may pick up on this: that one must listen to him, even if he tells you to throw a left when you thought you should throw a right, and vice versa.
Furthermore, he may be informing upcoming Get forcers how to en"lighten" the pocketbooks of women by taking sixty grand to give their ex a pop.
And his theme may be:
"Reserve A Place for Yourself Today". In Gehinom.
Unfortunately I am unable to attend the event but if I could I would approach him and demand an answer to whether Tamar Epstein is an Eishes Ish committing adultery even if it cause a stink. And make sure his response (or failure to respond) is recorded.
ReplyDeleteOne who doesn't actually do this can't claim that if he would be there he would have the guts to do it.
ReplyDeleteI CAN claim I would do this because I already HAVE gone up to Reb Smuel on the Las Vegas matter! He simply responded OY! OY! And I did the same by a parlor meeting that Rav Belsky spoke at until his escort pulled me away.
ReplyDeleteI've been put through hell by the crooks at National Council of Youngf Israel because I have spoken up when it was necessary,
You are one who hasn't got the guts. I've earned the right to claim I would do it if I could make it there.
Ok. I concede.
ReplyDeleteI will suggest something that I am doing. WE need to start a postcard campaign to Reb Shmuel's home. Write to Reb Shmuel and tell him what we need to publicly hear from him.
ReplyDeleteA postcard doesn't demand a response because it's not a direct confrontation. It might give him a pinch but he will eventually just discard the card and move on, don't you think?
ReplyDeleteThat's why he needs to receive a flood of them from many people.
ReplyDeleteIt's certainly better than nothing (as long as it is done respectfully). If a he receives a lot of postcards and letters, it will mean something. Even if his mail is screened, those close to him will be aware of how much it is bothersome to so many people. It sounds better than nothing.
ReplyDeleteI just called them and told the the woman who picked up the phone that I feel that it is outrageous that someone who allowed a woman to get married without a get should be allowed to speak at this affair. She told me that she would bring it to the attention of the "higher ups". If a few hundred others would do the same, maybe Kaminetsky would get thenmessage.
ReplyDeleteWell, Mr. Mamzer Maker is going strong. Thanks to David Feinstein. Phooey on the whole crowd. At least, in the whole world, there are a few Torah people who are found on the blogs.
ReplyDeleteI know someone who knows AF's mother & there was a time that they flooded her with hate mail, trying to tell her to convince AF to give a GET. Did anybody try to get TE to move back to Silver Spring?
ReplyDeleteKaminetsky certainly deserves a lot worse things than just hate mail.
This is not a comment to the above written comment or to any other article or post. It is just a request. Could you possibly reprint the letter from R' Reuven, Shlita, that lists about 6 different people (who call themsevles Rabbis) who should be in Cherim because of the sireuv taken against AF without ever speaking to him. And by the way, you can add Raalbag's name to the list because he signed the sieruv also.
ReplyDeleteA VERY BIG YASHER KOACH to you, Rabbi Eidensohn, Shlita, for all that you are doing for Klall Yisroel!
Rav Reuven's letter can be accessed by using either the upper right search window or the one on the right side. It was a hand written note that was added to a letter
ReplyDeleteMendele ProdFather had his own method how to let them know. He quoted the Rambam, that deep down he wants to comply and with a little prodding he will know. The K's truly want to tell the couple to depart, but needs some percipitant of their own medicine. As they say, what's good for the gander is good for the geese.
ReplyDeleteCC: To Asher Kaufman
Lechol man deboie lemeida, this in accordance of R' Akiva Eiger.
Are you referring to R' Akiva Eiger's treatment?
ReplyDelete“It is a tragedy when gedolim make mistakes - especially serious ones. It is an even bigger tragedy when they refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and make amends as the Torah requires.”
ReplyDeleteI apply this to NYS courts! NYS courts make mistakes, especially serious ones, who doesn’t? It’s a tragedy when NYS Courts refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and make amends as NYS laws require. I’m using this argument on NYS courts. Here’s part of what I sent to NYS Court of Appeals motion 2016-415 yesterday:
“2.Please see attached letters Popkin 3/24/1993 and Pesce 9/13/1996. Also see attached Appellate Division 2nd Dept. Decision & Order 12/14/1998.
3. Once I give the get to Susan, who demanded it on her initiative, Susan is free to remarry. This is what Popkin means by ”My client has advised me that she received a “Get” from your client several weeks ago and has since received the certificate (p'tor) of receiving that Get.” I, too, am free to remarry, which I did May 9, 1993, to Yemima and God blessed us with 3 daughters. Yemima is my legitimate wife and our daughters Hadassah, Tamar, and Sapphire are our legitimate children. If Susan wants to challenge the legitimacy of Yemima as my wife and the legitimacy of me and my wife Yemima's daughters Hadassah, Tamar, and Sapphire---she would have to make application before a NYS Court who would have to hear both sides before ruling.
4. Ethical conduct requires officers of the court---Administrative Judge Pesce, Judge Rigler, and Larry Rothbart; not to express opinions on matters not before them for consideration. Monetary matters between me and Susan were the only matters before the NYS courts. The 12/14/1998 Decision & Order states: “… the parties were divorced by foreign decree February 17, 1993…” On what basis is Judge Pesce repeating the lie that “… your two children in Israel could be considered illegitimate if brought here…” ?? I remind the court that Larry Rothbart was the law clerk when Judge Rigler fined me $20,000 and when Judge Garson fined me $5,000.”
My friends, I talk by telephone to many people about Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky's behavior in regard to the adulterous relationship he facilitated. Either directly or indirectly, I've learned that many hzve remained, and/or continue to remain, solid in their continued support for him.
ReplyDeleteThese supporters don't deny Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky did something wrong. It's just that each one provides a rationale.
- He was bamboozled by Rabbi Goldfein.
-He was seduced by his connections to the Epstein family.
-He's a Tzadik.
-My family is married into his family.
-He has told the adulterous couple to separate (no evidence of this, though).
The list goes on.
The general rule is: A "Gadol" can err but, he can never, ever, be a Rasha.
So save your postage stamps and phone calls. Save the gas you'd use to travel to a protest. I'm all for activism, so if you really want to contact the Kamenetsky's and their supporters, go ahead, as long as we keep in mind that the purpose of our activism is not so much to change the behavior of others. Our activism should ultimately energize us to cry out to Heaven from our exhausted spirits and request Divine Intervention. Because despite Ehud's thoughtful reasoning, we on Earth are not going to borrow any pages from the Rabbi Epstein playbook.
You forgot to mention the rationale which I encounter most often:
ReplyDeleteNu! Loshor horah! Mevazeh talmid chacham!
He yells these things as he has his fingers plugging his ears.
Just called and got hung up on.
ReplyDeleteNumber is 845-352-3505
Uh-huh. I used to hear all sorts rationales for Barry Freundel and I was told not to speak "lashon harah" against him. Then a year ago when he was sentenced people began telling me "you're vindicated!". My response to them was that if they had something at the time we saw his "minor" travesties, over 150 women would not have have been put through hell.
ReplyDelete“It is a tragedy when gedolim make mistakes - especially serious ones. It is an even bigger tragedy when they refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and make amends as the Torah requires. But worst of all when is they are being held as paragons of virtue - when they clearly aren't.”
ReplyDeleteHere is the rest of my 5/24/2016 letter to NYS Court of appeals.
1.I request permission to submit these papers concerning my motion 2016--415.
5.I call the court's attention to the fact that Susan for 30 years is an activist for wholesale divorce without fully hearing the man's side. Internet March 2016:
“The NCJW NY Jewish Women's Resource Center Steering Committee is privileged to present Susan Aranoff, co-author, with the late Rivka Haut, of their new book, The Wed-Locked Agunot: Orthodox Jewish Women Chained in Dead Marriages. Dr. Aranoff, a dedicated activist, has been an advocate of the issue of “agunot” for three decades.”
6.”Dr. Aranoff, a dedicated activist, has been an advocate of the issue of agunot for three decades.” These are the 30 years of Mendel Epstein et al. They worked together. My feeling is that there is much regret among Susan's and Mendel Epstein's agunot. Pacer states on Mendel Epstein et al:
“It is ORDERED that the brief for Appellant(s) and the joint appendix shall be filed and served on or before 06/20/2016. If the appeal is challenging a criminal sentence, four (4) copies of the Presentence Investigation Report shall be filed in sealed envelopes. It is FURTHER ORDERED that the consolidated brief for Appellee shall be filed and served within twenty-one (21) days of service of Appellant's brief. It is FURTHER ORDERED that a reply brief, if any, shall be filed and served within fourteen (14) days of service of Appellee's brief.”
7.I ask the Court to grant my motion for leave to appeal and to grant my motion for poor person relief and to grant my request to order TIAA to stop paying 55% of my pension to Susan as an immediate interim measure and to grant my request that the Court recognize, immediately, Yemima Aranoff as my legitimate wife whom I married May 9, 1993, and Hadassah Aranoff, Tamar Aranoff, and Sapphire Aranoff as our legitimate children.
I agree with you whole heartedly. however, I do have problems with, " -He has told the adulterous couple to separate (no evidence of this, though)", why don't they the K's give the Adams the same treatment as they saw fit for Aron F? They even have RHS's support through a befeirush R' Akiva Eiger.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe for one minute that R' Dovid did not tell the K's to relay the message to depart. Aside from Rabbi S. Miller where are the Protesters, Where is BBD? They are only afraid of gadgets for avizorayhu deGilui Arayos, but not for the real McCoy. It is thus that calls for CitiField's. This stinky gedoilem smells to high heaven.
This is what brings all the tsarot for klall yisrael, Dayonim she'einom mehugonim.
I have often found when people yell "Lashon horah!" the information is NOT Lashon Horah and when they want to hear more that is when it truly is Lashon horah.
ReplyDeleteI like that idea. people get funding calls -- why shouldn't they get de-funding calls? I'm going to give this some thought.
ReplyDelete