Saturday, November 28, 2009

Rav Eliashiv:His rabbinic authority & power

This link to Bhol.co.il is a video of Rav Eliashiv which has been of great interest in the chareidi world. It shows certain rabbis trying to explain to Rav Eliashiv what his authority and power is and his response to these assertions.

14 comments :

  1. A transcript would be useful. It's difficult to pick up R' Elyashiv's answers (when he can get a word in)

    One thing is for sure, there is little K'void Talmidei Chachomim that I could see. They didn't even ask Reshus to video. They simply told him toch kdei dibur that it was "necessary". I've seen children with more kovod when speaking to their fathers.

    The thumping on the desk and the putting words in people's mouths .... yuck.

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  2. Can someone please provide a summary for us non hebrew speakers?

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  3. Is the man asking questions or telling? In the academic world when we have question sessions there are questions that are really speeches. They are considered rude and are frowned upon. If this was a politician I would say that the man was incompetent, completely under the control of his advisors and unfit for office.

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  4. That's an old video. I saw it about a year ago. It was promoted by OTD sites saying "after this video, you opinion on daas Torah will not be the same any more" (since rav elyashiv seems to be bullied into an answer he did not really want to give).

    I try to look up the links...

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  5. Same video:
    http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2009/05/rav-elyashiv-on-modesty.html

    transcript in hebrew:
    http://www.zootorah.com/controversy/RavElyashivTranscript.jpg

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  6. link said...

    That's an old video. I saw it about a year ago. It was promoted by OTD sites saying "after this video, you opinion on daas Torah will not be the same any more" (since rav elyashiv seems to be bullied into an answer he did not really want to give).
    ============
    You are right that this is not a recent video. Howver the one who pointed it out to me said that it was now circulating the mainstream yeshiva popoulation.

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  7. By the way: this video reminds me a bit of the way you used a Tshuvah by Rav STernbuch to trumpet "There is a safek of Mamzerut in Beney Anussim". Rav Sternbuch did not bring up the subject on his own. He was asked a question "Could there be a safek of Mamzerut" so he answers "Yes, when you look at this from this angle, there could be a safek, so we would need to go deeper into the matter to know more about it"....

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  8. http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2009/03/manipulating-rav-elyashiv.html

    here, some excerpts are translated into english

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  9. link said...

    By the way: this video reminds me a bit of the way you used a Tshuvah by Rav STernbuch to trumpet "There is a safek of Mamzerut in Beney Anussim". Rav Sternbuch did not bring up the subject on his own. He was asked a question "Could there be a safek of Mamzerut" so he answers "Yes, when you look at this from this angle, there could be a safek, so we would need to go deeper into the matter to know more about it"....
    ==============
    You lost me on this one. This is a standard issue which is discussed by the poskim concerning the Ethiopians.

    Rav Sternbuch makes it very clear that if a person who is a descendant of the Anusim insists he is really Jewish then it of necessity raises the issue of mamzerus. It is not a minor issue and it wasn't something that I put a spin on. I suggest you reread the teshuva in a more relaxed and objective state.

    The issue came entirely from the facts of the case and the insistence of the person that he was really Jewish.

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  10. This is definitely rather troubling. Essentially it is like looking behind the curtain in Oz and seeing the little man pulling the strings on the big bad wizard.

    Here we have the person that many consider the Posek HaDor essentially being told what his decisions ought to be. Now a lot of the decisions pronouncements that previously made no sense become crystal clear... Though for some reason I was more comfortable chalking those things up to his own stringiness and senility.

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  11. link said...
    By the way: this video reminds me a bit of the way you used a Tshuvah by Rav STernbuch to trumpet "There is a safek of Mamzerut in Beney Anussim". Rav Sternbuch did not bring up the subject on his own. He was asked a question "Could there be a safek of Mamzerut" so he answers "Yes, when you look at this from this angle, there could be a safek, so we would need to go deeper into the matter to know more about it"....
    ===============

    Link you are simply misreading the teshvua. You clearly have an agenda and I am not wasting anymore time trying to explain that which is obvious.

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  12. This is an important document. For a useful discussion on this English language site we need an English transcript.

    Certainly, the non verbals alone communicate manipulation.

    Pirkei Avos starts with the chain of transmission of the oral torah. Right now the oral torah of Rabbi Eliyashiv is being proffered in multiple versions. In a comment on my blog an askan, Ronnie Greenwald of Monsey (see his page on wikipedia), insists that Rabbi Eliyashiv's ruling for going to the police about molesting requires two independent complainants. He says he heard it from Rabbi Eliyashiv. Others who have spoken to Rabbi Eliyashiv have told me otherwise, but are afraid to go public. So we have arrived at a point where halachah is being made by the askanim with the most chutzpah in manipulating the information reaching R. Eliyashiv and interpreting the content of even his written rulings by layering on the answers they have managed to procure by various manipulations.

    To see the comment by Ronnie Greenwald go the discussion of the article: http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/an-open-letter-to-rabbis-twerski-and-horowitz-about-child-molesting/

    To see an article about how chareidism has been corrupted by these and other manipulations of Rabbi Eliyashiv see: http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/?s=eckstein

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  13. watch the video carefully
    I know the players including the yerushalmi in the back
    mishkovsky and shapira both seem to be trying to establish the silliest of objectives even is he is old and weak the rav did not play into their hands

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  14. Recipients and PublicityDecember 2, 2009 at 2:03 PM

    (Was posted above, was meant for here, so reposting here. Thanks.)

    This video reveals a lot. Firstly it shows the sterling amazing good middos and patience of Rav Eliashiv. Here is a man of about 100 years old and he sits patiently and calmly, focused and alert to welcome and put up with what can only be called verbal abuse from a bunch of mysoginistic grobbe yungen who mostly dwell on anti-female topics.

    Would these same interrogators of Rav Eliashiv, in his own home yet, accept such a tone and style from their own students and children? Definitely not! They would no doubt give a potch (slap across the face) to anyone a quarter of their age for talking to them the way they dare to address Rav Eliashiv with their aggressive body language and bullying words invading Rav Eliashiv's own home space.

    Yet here they are, in splendid color and sound, recording their abominable harrasments of Rav Eliashiv as the dude on the left shoots his questions in rapid-fire forcing Rav Eliashiv to respond in almost yes-or-no fashion.

    This is also teh style of R Nachum Eisenstein who comes into Rav Eliashiv very often to "ask his shaylos" regarding conversions in an abrasive manner. This seems to be an Israeli cultural thing as the chutzpadikke style of Sabras is practiced even by so-called rabbonim when talking to their RASHKEBEHAG.

    They talk of the Chofetz Chaim and Halachos of tznius, but one cannot imagine that either the Chofetz Chaim or anyone really serious about the Halachos of tznius would approach a Gadol Hador with such shameless lack of derech eretz and outright chutzpa.

    Do they think Rav Eliashiv is their high school chavrusa to "shlog op"?

    It is just so pathetic to think that Halachic policies for the frum world get "legislated" and "decreed" upon unsuspecting people like this.

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