https://www.ynetnews.com/article/ByprFIyvd
Former health minister set to be hit with charges of bearing false witness, fraud and breach of trust in Malka Leifer affair for allegedly trying to influence psychiatrists tasked with assessing her mental fitness
One would expect that in the yeshiva world, one will find great tzaddikim, which we are told stories about, such as the Lubavitcher rebbe, Rav Moshe ztl. But it is just as easy to find the opposite.
ReplyDeleteWhat's your problem? Anti orthodox?
ReplyDelete>charges of bearing false witness, fraud and breach of trust
ReplyDeletePretty sure those are also mitzvos d'oraysa so I wonder - how does Litzman justify his behaviour? Because "she was one of us" doeesn't really cut it, does it?
Is he the "white trash" you referred to in a parallel post? Or someone high up the ladder?
ReplyDeleteBecause it is forbidden to facilitate the turnover of a Jew over to non-Jews when doing so will not directly result in making victims any safer. Leifer in Israel not working anywhere was not a safety threat to anyone that Israel couldn't control better than Australia.
ReplyDeletereally?!
ReplyDeleteDo you always posken in areas you are ignorant about?
Is orthodox just being strict about kashrus, shabbat and davening times? Or is there an ethical content too?
ReplyDeleteאסור למסור לישראל ביד עכו"ם בין בגופו בין בממונו ואפי' היה רשע ובעל עבירות ואפי' היה מצר לו ומצערו: וכל המוסר ישראל ביד עכו"ם בין בגופו בין בממונו אין לו חלק לעולם הבא: - חושן משפט שפ"ח ט' ורמב"ם הלכות חובל ומזיק ח' ט'
ReplyDeleteAnd that doesn't apply in this case.
ReplyDeleteThe same claim has been made for years to justify not reporting pedophiles to the police. Rav Eliashiv and many others disagree.
In fact this is a case of rodef in which you are clearly allowed and in fact must call the police even if it results in imprisonment and extradition.
Does Daas Torah know for certain that a shaila was asked about turning Leifer over to goyim. Does Daas Torah think Rav Litzman acted without Rabbinic approval? In fact, the community may indeed be safer with Leifer confined in Israel. In fact, she could be found innocent of charges in Australia and would then pose a real danger to the community.
ReplyDeleteAn unemployed woman living in Israel for years without any alleged criminal activity in any of the years since she lived in Israel isn't a rodef for alleged activity in Australia many years earlier when she was an authority figure in a school.
ReplyDeleteDoes Daas Torah know for certain that a shaila was asked about turning Leifer over to goyim. Does Daas Torah think Rav Litzman acted without Rabbinic approval? In fact, the community may indeed be safer with Leifer confined in Israel. In fact, she could be found innocent of charges in Australia and would then pose a real danger to the community.
ReplyDeleteJust as easy to find reshoim as tzaddikim? That's a huge bad thing to say with no basis in fact. A few bad apples ruin the bunch?
ReplyDeleteDoes Daas Torah know for certain that a shaila was asked about turning Leifer over to goyim. Does Daas Torah think Rav Litzman acted without Rabbinic approval? In fact, the community may indeed be safer with Leifer confined in Israel. In fact, she could be found innocent of charges in Australia and would then pose a real danger to the community.
ReplyDeleteDon't have to ask it is clear that a rodef is not protected from the law.
ReplyDeleteGer has long history of protecting pedophiles from police.
So there obviously was rabbinic approval but that is not an excuse or protection against the consequences any more than the claim than the fact that there were rabbis claiming Rabin was a rodef shielded his assassin
there are claims she molested here. I assume you would posken like the Mishne Bereura that you can't profane Shabbos to save a Goy's life. The response of av Moshe applies in this case also.
ReplyDeleteDo you have psak that it is permitted to do anything to prevent extradition?
ReplyDeleteGood point. I'm referring to tzaddikim like Lubavitcher Rebbecca , Rav Moshe, chazon ish, - that level of tzaddik, ie the chassidic tzaddik.
ReplyDeleteChassidim teach that a rebbe gives you advice that is true, that you should follow.
Monkeys who become rabbis and even rosh yeshiva, have bad middos from the jungle, .
Some rabbis I've met think they have entitlement to women , even married women in their congregations or outreach work.
Please explain if the molester is confined and controlled by the community, why is mesira permitted? Do we seek 'justice' from the Goyim stam, without an overriding reason to protect our community?
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Rav Litzman, if the charges against him are true, would have risked his career without psak?
Once a rodef, always a rodef? If the rodef is contained in a situation where the individual cannot harm, is that person still in the category of a rodef?
ReplyDeleteI truly want to know the answer, for it is the heart of the matter.
Would you mind posting Rav Moshe's response to this premise? That sounds interesting.
ReplyDelete