Monday, April 19, 2021

Disagreeing with authority

 Rav Chaim Voloshner(Ruach Chaim 1:4): … It is prohibited for a student to accept the words of his teacher if he has questions about them. Furthermore sometimes the truth is with the student and not the teacher. Avos(1:4), One should sit in the dust at the feet of one’s teachers and drink with unquenchable thirst what they say. The word for sitting - avek - can also mean struggle or warfare. That is because this is an obligatory struggle. The holy rabbis who have composed the books we study have in fact given us permission to struggle and to fight over their words and to answer the difficulties they raise. Therefore, we have the right to question what they say and not to blindly accept their words - but one must love the truth…. Since ascertaining the truth is the prime concern - we must be very careful not to be conceited and egotistical in the discussions and to imagine that we are as great as the teacher or author with whom we are disagreeing. We should be aware in our hearts that we might simply be misunderstanding their words. Therefore we must always be very humble. We must have the attitude, ‘I am not worthy to argue but this is Torah and I must know the correct answer’. Furthermore, the Mishna states that the struggle is conditional on being ‘in the dust at their feet’ which means we must be humble and submissive and figuratively sit on the ground before them in these discussions. 

 Seridei Aish(1:113): I frequently comment on the apparent contradiction found in Avos (6:5) concerning those factors involved in acquiring Torah i.e. analysis of the students and faith in our Sages. Furthermore, what does faith in our Sages have to do with acquiring Torah? However, the explanation is that if one doesn’t believe in the truth of the words of the sages then one readily dismisses them for the slightest reason. With an attitude of condescension, one proclaims that they didn’t know what they were talking about. Consequently, one makes no effort to investigate and try to validate what they said. However, in the end we find that in fact we are the ones who have erred. … Therefore it is characteristic of the truly wise to presume that the sages have not erred, G‑d forbid! In fact we, with our limited perspective and limited understanding, have erred. On the other hand to blindly believe and not struggle to comprehend with our intellect the apparent difficulties, saying simply that they knew and we need merely to mindlessly rely on them - that is also not correct. We need to wrestle mightily with the apparent contradictions and doubts as if they are people like us. With this approach, we will come to a much profounder and sharper comprehension. Thus, we see that both factors - emunas chachomim (faith in our sages) and pilpul (intellectual evaluation) - work together to the purpose of the acquisition of Torah.

12 comments :

  1. v' habayshan lo lomed!

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  2. "It is prohibited for a student to accept the words of his
    teacher if he has questions about them. Furthermore sometimes the truth is with
    the student and not the teacher."


    Asking how statement x was derived, and if there was precedent for this is hardly an arrogant question or attitude.

    I didn't throw rocks in the windows of anyone's house , as was the case in the A.I.D. dispute.

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  3. Reminds me of the old discussion back when blogs were big
    A: You always have to listen to "the Gedolim" because they have ruach hakodesh and are always right.
    B: I thought only God is perfect. Are you saying that about "the Gedolim"?
    A: Chas v'shalom. Only God is perfect and never makes mistakes.
    B: So is it possible your "Gadol" made a mistake on this ruling?
    A: Chas v'shalom you should even think that!

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  4. Rav Moshe never claimed either Daas Torah or infallibility and states that in the Igros Moshe. But there is a minimal attitude of respect required when asking. especially when not bothering to read his actual words.

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  5. Rav Moshe never claimed either Daas Torah or infallibility and states that in the Igros Moshe. But there is a minimal attitude of respect required when asking. especially when not bothering to read his actual words.

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  6. Didn't see you pay much respect in your comments about the Tzitz eliezer.

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  7. Look, if the line was "They know a lot, certainly more than you. They worked really hard on this analysis to come their decision and when people like this with lots of knowledge and experience say something, it's appropriate to listen" no one would have a problem. But that's not what their followers say. They say "They have Daas Torah and how dare you ask them to explain themselves!"

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  8. Are you trying ti blame me for your shortcomings?

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  9. Nope, it doesn't work like that.

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  10. Respect yes, i find it a bit tiresome and false to mention 1000 praises before saying the name of a Gadol, in every single conversation. Perhaps it is a silent way of showing off, false modesty.

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