Rav Kook (Page 58 in Judge Elon’s Status of Women): The psychological reason for having women vote and for publicly calling voting by the name of “the right of women” is a consequence of the lowly state of women in the general population in these countries. If the condition of their families were truly tranquil and decent as we find in most of our families – then we would not have the women themselves, nor the academics or ethical authorities or idealists be trying to achieve what they call the “rights of voting for women.” It is something which in fact is likely to ruin the quality of family life. And this destruction of family life must of necessity lead to great destruction in the quality of communities as well as society in general. It is only because of the despair and psychological bitterness that results from the coarse conduct of men that secular family life has been ruined. Thus the secular society decided to try to improve the situation by means of giving more power to the community and to try with this to elevate the broken ruins of the family unit. But they have shown no concern for the negative side-effects and consequences from such a change since they already have so much breakdown in the family unit for other reasons. However, we in contrast have not descended to their lowly existence and we don’t wish to see our sisters in this degraded state. The home for us is even now a bastion of holiness. G‑d forbid that we should degrade the brilliant light that exists in the life of our sisters and to create the possibility of embittering their lives by means of exposing them to the conflicting views and bitter disputes that are connected with the elections and the political issues concerning the nature of the country.
That was 100 years ago
ReplyDeletewhat about today?
So you want to claim Rav Kook didn't mean what he said?!
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think is his real view ?
Nope, that is not my claim.
ReplyDeleteSecular society of today has gone even further than it was 100 years ago - probably unrecognisable. The question is, whehter under today's circumstances, halakhic opinion is different ? it seems so, as far as i know, most or all orthodox women do vote, whether in Chu'L, or in Israel.
Rav Kook's view was simply not accepted then or now
ReplyDeleteHe was very machmir in Halacha
ReplyDeleteWell, however out of step with the times this view may be, Rav Kook is actually not saying something directly shocking when examined in the light of sobriety. The underlying universal assumption is that, much as it seems that voting is "a right", the true right is not to have to vote -- i.e., that such questions of management are a kind of headache, and that little is worse than the exposure to the dirt & lies of those who war against each other in the public realm. That assumption alone has nothing yet to do with the genders. I think many good frum homes would not have allowed -- and I know of some that did not allow -- their children to listen to the U.S. Presidential debates that recently took place in 2016 & 2020.
ReplyDelete(Recall here that the Gra, in his famous "Iggeres" to his wife (found at the back of many Siddurim today) regarding their daughters' chinnukh counseled that the girls should not be permitted to attend schul on Shabbos because it wasn't worth the exposure to rampant, habitual, communal lashon hara they would be bound to hear. It's a similar line of thinking on a different subject.)
From there, it's not much of a leap to say that women are elevated and protected by generally not being expected or allowed to vote. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't holes or weaknesses with this argument,* or that it's a preferable way to think, just that it's foremost an entirely different standpoint than it is foremost some way to suppress half the population... as most readers of today would readily assume it to be.
A chavrusa advocating for Rav Kook might level against his modernist detractor this qasha:
Where a wife does her spouse the privilege of making him a home, has he thereby "lost the right" to determine his own food?
The point: All a matter of perspective, and not necessarily a matter of suppression....
* (For example, Rav Kook also assumes, among other things, that all women will be members of a household, and not living single. If a large portion of the population has chosen such a path, surely they are already, rightly or wrongly, exposed to the world.)
Rav Kook's view makes sense in a society where every family functions peacefully and respectly. Instead of Mr. and Mrs. Ploni casting separate votes, they confer, reach a decision and then cast the Ploni family vote.
ReplyDeleteOf course in such a world, Mr. Ploni would be riding a unicorn to the polling station....
If women cannot vote who will look out for their rights in matters such as equality in wages and even the right to drive?
ReplyDeleteGo ask the Beis Din in Williamburg and New Square.
ReplyDeleteSotah 22a-b gives a behavioural critique of the Pharisees. Not related to this post but in general, It is very informative
ReplyDelete