https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/can-a-woman-initiate-jewish-divorce-proceedings/
But, it should be stressed that if the coercion used by the beit din,
or the secular courts at the behest of the beit din, is not effective
to force the husband to participate in the get process, the beit din
itself can do nothing. Only the man can do the acts required for a valid
Jewish divorce; the Jewish court has no more power to declare a man
divorced against his will than it does to declare a man married against
his will.
I’m trying to put up Torah thought daf hayomi Shekalim. Yes I’m still undecided on SCOTUS 20-6525 and NYS Court of Appeals 54 1/19/2021. Look how I write to the NYS ct of Appeals March 22, 2021
ReplyDelete3.Was the NYS Get Law was a mistake? Was the NYS Get law a factor in undermining the judicial system in NYS? Was massive mail-in voting in many states a mistake? Was massive mail-in voting in many states a factor undermining confidence in the system of voting for the 2020 election? Surely with new technology and with vaccines massive mail-in voting serves no benefit and adds to fraud.
4.The NYS Get Law adds no benefit and adds to fraud. It's too easy for the wife to holler agunah and to stage public protests. In my view the Progressive Left's criticism against the Torah's divorce laws is unfair. The Torah states (Deuteronomy 24:1-5):
When a man takes a wife, and marries her, then it comes to pass, if she finds no favor in his eyes, because he finds some unseemly thing in her, that he writes her a bill of divorcement, hands it in her, and sends her out of his house, and she leaves his household, and goes and becomes another man's wife. Then this latter man rejects her, writes her a bill of divorcement, hands it to her, and sends her away from his house; or if the man who married her last dies. Then the first husband who divorced her, may not take her to wife again, since she has been defiled (i.e.\ disqualified for him)---for that would be abhorrent to the Lord. You must not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you as a heritage. When a man takes a new wife, he shall not go out with the army or be assigned to it for any purpose; he shall be exempt for one year for the sake of his household, to give happiness to the woman he has married.
5.The Torah is so beautiful. No easy solutions in divorce matters. What if one party, a homosexual/lesbian, wants out despite all promises made and despite children of the marriage? What if one party finds another they prefer to marry and wants out despite all promises made and despite children of the marriage? The Torah is concerned about Jewish people living in Israel facing enemies. Susan knew that it always was my dream to live in Israel working as a professor with a PhD in economics. Susan reneged on her promises to join me in Israel with our children.
Sincerely,
Gerald Aranoff
Welcome back Gerald, and happy Pesach
ReplyDeleteThanks KA for the uptick. Torah thought daf hayomi.
ReplyDeleteShekalim 3b:
“Mishnah 3. On the fifteenth thereof tables [of money changers] [for changing foreign coins of Jews from the Diaspora] were set up in the provinces [outside Jerusalem according to others, outside the Temple]. On the twenty-fifth they were set up in the temple. when [the tables] were set up in the temple, they began to restrain [the goods of those who had not yet paid their shekel]. Whom did they restrain? Jews who were not priests or Levites. And not proselytes and not freed slaves [These four classes were not bound by law to pay the shekel.]. Not women or slaves or minors [with these the payment of the shekel was a voluntary act.]. A minor on whose behalf his father had begun to pay the shekel, may not discontinue it again. No restrain was levied on the priests, in order to promote peacefulness [lit., because of the ways of peace. Because the priests contested their obligation to pay the shekel, as stated in the next section. The Palestinian Gemara seems to have read: Because of the respect due to them].”
I like Rabbi Yehuda. He says that Cohanim don’t have to pay the half shekel poll tax. Amazing. I’m a Cohain. In Israel we bless the people every day. Why should Cohanim not pay the poll tax “This they shall pay, everyone who is entered in the records, a half-shekel sanctuary weight—twenty gerahs n to the shekel;—a half-shekel as an offering to the Lord.(Exodus 30:13)? What is Rabbi Yehudah’s reasoning in the Gamara?
My understanding has always been that while a beis din cannot directly order a man to divorce his wife, it can announce its very strong preference and then punish the man for ignoring beis din's wishes. Would there be a specific way to do this?
ReplyDelete> We learn from Kesubos (71a) if it is clear that he hates her then he is obligated to divorce her
ReplyDeleteSo to me, most of the measures mentioned seem rather ineffectual. Oooooh, he won't get an aliyah in shul. The horror! {sarcasm} If he's such a menuval that he doesn't care about making his wife an agunah, denying him a chance to lead davening won't deter him much.
But this line from Kesubos is what I'm talking about. If he hates her, then he must divorce her. The Beis Din can apply pressure not to force him to give the get but to obey the Torah and anyone who openly sins by disobeying the Torah can be tossed from the community.
Rackman vs Kamenetsky BD
ReplyDeletehttps://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/01/comparing-kaminetsky-greenblatt-heter.html#disqus_thread
Rackman cites Rambam and Rashba in favour of keffiya
https://www.scribd.com/doc/294525133/Rackman-Beis-Din-Ad-1997#fullscreen&from_embed
(HIddushei Harashba Gittin 88b)
And Rav Spektor who wrote that Tav l'metav is no longer applicable (when a defect justifies coercion)
Is this a DIY psak?
ReplyDeleteWhere is your source for Rav Spektor?
Does he claim a husband can be forced to give a divorce when wife thinks she can do better?
Aside from Rackman who agrees with you?
Ein Yitzhak, vol 1, 24:41
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen him make such a statement (when she can do better).
I have only reposted your own posts. Hence there is nothing to agree about.
Try again number 24 deals with using an esrog that was under a bed
ReplyDeleteנשאלתי מכמה רבנים ע״ר אחרוגיס שהי׳ מונחים תחת
המפה ומבואר בפסחים (דף קי״ב פ״ב)
דאוכלץ ומשקץ תחם המפה רוח רפה שורה עליהן ־ ח'כ
האתרוג המונח תחת המטה כיון דאינו ראוי לאכילה מחמת
רוח רפה אינו יוצא בו חובת אתרוג וכמבואר בסוכה (ד׳ ל״ה)
דאתרוג שאין בו היתר אכילה פסול לצאת בו ו ק הוא באוי ח
סי׳ תרמ׳׳פ סעי׳ ה׳ דאתרוג שאסור באכילה פסול ־ א״ כ
ה״ה במה דנאסר באכילה משוס רוח רפה דמ׳׳ש :
Rav Rakeffet wrote am article about Rav Spector ztl. He lists the teshuvos, including 19, and 22.
ReplyDeletehttps://traditiononline.org/rabbi-yitshak-elhanan-spector-of-kovno-spokesman-for-agunot/
not seen 24 so must be a typo
Don't see what you claim he said.
ReplyDeletedoes this help?
ReplyDeleteEin Yitzhak, Pt. I, Even Ha'ezer, no. 24, subpar. 41.
I don't have access to a copy
You are right, Rakeffet was discussing a different area, but notes that "l In R. Yitshak Elhanan's published writings) there are a hundred fifty-eight
responsa on this subject. In general, he did not just dcal with thc specific incident that was referred to him, but rather set down principles that became precedents."
also, IBD mention it in one of their documents:
ReplyDeleteConsequently, it is unsurprising that Rabbis Y. Spektor, E. Klatzkin, Zvi P. Frank and
M. Feinstein state in their respective responsa that if get coercion cannot be
imposed legally (and therefore halakhically); then under certain conditions,
marriages ought to be voided. See Teshuvot Ein Yitzhak 1 EH 24, Anaf 6
(38);Teshuvot Dibrot Eliyahu 48; Teshuvot Har Tzvi EH 2:181;Iggerot Moshe EH 1:79.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiUs_e_4cnvAhXUtXEKHY0ZDZY4ChAWMAF6BAgDEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.internationalbeitdin.org%2Fstorage%2Fapp%2Fmedia%2Fuploaded-files%2FBeitDinZilberLetter.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1pChxP4kdI8m_2o6saGNDh
This is Aviad HaCohen's rendering of the teshuva
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Tears_of_the_Oppressed/w7WsAeX_gDAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=ein+yitzhak+agunot&pg=PA56&printsec=frontcover
I agree, it is poorly referenced, even in this book.
"then under certain conditions, marriages ought to be voided. "
ReplyDeleteWhat conditions?
So any case that doesn't meet these conditions can not be voided!
https://hebrewbooks.org/1303
ReplyDeleteSo you want to be responsible for generalizing to Agunah - Rakefet isn't big enough to do this are you?
nonsense, you are talking knee-jerk gibberish
ReplyDeleteI have done nothing mroe than to quote people named above, which is what you do on a day to day basis. is the fact that you posted Rackman's book, and his BD manifesto proof that you want to generalize to Agunah? Are you big enough to do this?
there are several separate points here -
ReplyDelete1) are the sources these Rabbis bring genuine sources?
2) As Rav Moshe, as pointed out by Rav Henkin, does not have a text to base his argument on, what is the creative space that he allows himself in halacha?
3) who is the arbiter of further creative space? Who decides that x,y or z are arbiters? What are the metahalachic principles that these arbiters are influenced by ?
Since I do not run any sort of BD or or Get anullment service, my qualifications are not a question. I am just looking for sources on the subject.
Wow!
ReplyDeleteA Beis Din cannot punish any man for disregarding their "wishes" or recommendations regarding whether he should divorce his wife, unless Torah Law/Halacha clearly require that he give a divorce. In the absence of such a halachic obligation, Beis Din can do nothing to pressure him to give a divorce that halacha does not require that he give.
ReplyDelete