Monday, March 22, 2021

Get refusers - Severe halachic questions to using a hysteric mob

 There have been a number of recent mass demonstrations meant to force a husband to give his wife a get.

One in particular claims it was instigated by Rabbi Chaim Shabes- but no letter or evidence is produced to support this claim.

It is also claimed the husband is required to give a Get when the wife demands one or when a summons to appear in beis din is ignored- both of these claims are clearly false.

Perhaps more problematic is that forcing a get through lynch mob can only produce a get me'usa which is inherently invalid and if the wife subsequently marries - future children are mamzerim. As well as the horrible reality that the woman who remarries is committing adultery

While the people involved, clearly view themselves as righteous but the problem is that they are clearly ignorant of elementary halacha either willfully or because of poor education. Basically they are rebelling against halacha, since they can't get what they want by using the system even if they call themselves rabbis or Divorce experts

I am not claiming that a woman should be chained to a bad marriage. But the solution being used is simply stupid and counterproductive. Dropping an atom bomb because you are upset and feel the other side is morally wrong just doesn't always work. 

Rabbis or beis din can not issue a judgment after listening to only  one side. Unfortunately in recent years such illegitimate behavior has become more common

11 comments :

  1. It looks like R. Osher Weiss (and the dayonim whose question he was responding to) disagrees with you:

    הנני לחוות דעתי לפי בקשתכם בעניין סרבן שזה כתשע־עשרה שנה נמצא בחו"ל ומעגן את אשתו ואינו מתייצב בבית דין לדון בתביעת גירושין מצד אשתו – אם אפשר לקבל עדויות ולדון שלא בפניו על מנת לחייבו ליתן גט. אם תצא החלטה על ידי בית דין לחייבו לגרש את אשתו יש אפשרות לנקוט צעדים מגבילים נגדו במקום שהותו בארצות הברית שיכבידו עליו בתקוה שיסכים לגרש. והשאלה שהארכתם בה בתשובות החשובות שערכתם: האם יש מקום להקל לקבל עדות ולדון שלא בפניו בנסיבות שנוצרו.

    ...

    ומשום כל זה נראה ברור שאכן בנידון דידן אפשר לחייבו ליתן גט אף שמעולם לא הופיע בפני בית הדין.

    ונראה עוד דעצם העובדה שזה קרוב לעשרים שנה הבליעל מעגן את אשתו די בה כדי לחייבו לגרשה, יהיו טענותיו אשר יהיו, ואם כן אין כלל נפקא מינה מה יאמר ומה יטען וכל כהאי גוונא ודאי אפשר לדונו שלא בפניו.

    http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/psk/psk.asp?id=2128

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  2. So what beis din says he must give a get?

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  3. I know nothing about this story and I make no claims to. I'm just noting that there are significant poskim who rule that there can be a חיוב גט when the husband refuses to attend בית דין.

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  4. You wrote that beis din cannot issue a judgement after listening only to one side without qualification. I am noting that there are circumstances in which a beis din can do exactly that (according to the Minchas Osher). I make no claims regarding this story, which I have no knowledge of.

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  5. You cite one significant posek without indicating whether any other significant poskim agree.
    Nor is it clear what his justification is for ignoring the role of beis din.

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  6. so you agree that without the ruling of a beis din a husband can not be told to divorce his wife

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  7. Read the whole teshuva - he explains himself very well.

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  8. He is dealing with a case where it is known by the beis din that there are no substantive issues and the problem is that beis din hadn't come to a conclusion at that point

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  9. ונראה עוד דעצם העובדה שזה קרוב לעשרים שנה הבליעל מעגן את אשתו די בה כדי לחייבו לגרשה, יהיו טענותיו אשר יהיו, ואם כן אין כלל נפקא מינה מה יאמר ומה יטען וכל כהאי גוונא ודאי אפשר לדונו שלא בפניו.

    Please explain his halachic claims as to why the husband must give a get? The husband's claims are meaningless?! All he seems to say is the beis din can continue their previous deliberations without the husband's participation
    So if no beis din was ever involved no individual or Rabbi can claim a husband must give a get to his wife!

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  10. You have mentioned years ago that your study shows these protests never result in the husband giving in to giving a get.
    But I believe what's happened in the last month refuse it.
    Since #freechani many other agunos have received their gets. (Been waiting to hear your take on this whole situation)
    Wat instagram and social media has done has reached the masses and let everyone know about this guy. It's basically putting out the siruv for everyone to seem not just one shul. The husband can't run because everyone knows now.
    Intersted to hear your take

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  11. It is clear that this type of mob pressure is against the halacha and produces at best a get me'usa
    Especially when no beis din has ruled that a get must be given.
    Vigilante lynch mobs have never been acceptable, even to decide the president of US.
    Why do the ignorant or rabbis who want to please or get money think that it can override the sin of adultery?
    There used to be mobs called Crusaders in which the self righteous mob forced people to convert for the obvious good of becoming a christian - this is the same approach.

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