https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-880379
US President Donald Trump on Monday said his administration was looking into whether Israel violated the Gaza ceasefire by killing a Hamas leader on Saturday.
The White House sent a scolding message to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday, expressing
Washington’s anger over the assassination of senior Hamas official Sa’ad Ra’ad, which it described as an Israeli violation of the Gaza ceasefire agreement, two American sources told Axios.
Like Zelensky, Bibi has to remember the consequences of Trump not getting his way no matter who gets hurt.
ReplyDeleteTrump has to remember the consequences of Hamas violating the ceasefire; thinking that they can get away with murder.
DeleteWe need to remember that this targeted assassination did not come out of nowhere. It followed Israeli troops being attacked in the Israeli zone.
Israel can not, and will not be allowed to be reduced to sitting ducks for Hamas violations.
Israel is sending a message to Hamas: FAFO.
Every month, a group of women show up at the Kotel and provoke the Chareidim by laining and leading their own services. Every month the Chareidim riot. Every month the police arrest the women. Why?
DeleteBecause it's easier to cart off a bunch of feminists than arrest 1000's savages.
Same thing here. Trump can't control Hamas. He knows they won't change. But he can push around Israel so when it comes to maintaining the ceasefire, that's what his option is.
Not just hareidi. Also dati leumi attack them, at least the hardal branch..
DeleteThat wasn't the point.
DeleteIt was a good point nevertheless
DeleteKA, Garnel,
DeleteSo you & yours don't care for preserving the sanctity of the kotel?! You're in tacit support of the travesty ?!
& Don't try-not relevant argument.This sheds light on everything else you post.
Btw you're forked tongues as well.When charedim unfortunately clan up & ignore the larger societal issues you're swift to condemn them all.
When they're aggrieved & properly concerned enough to take a public stand you'll condemn them just the same.Ok!
Kudos to the Chardalnikim as well
DeleteBoth of you & your compatriots would have condemned the Chashmonaim all the more !
Chashmonaim were precursors to Tzedukim. They were not really into oral law.
DeleteYet they were also tsadikim.
So religious people tell secular to be religious.
A bunch of people want to daven, and then get beaten up by* frum* groups.
This is kiruv?
What makes you think this is good? Maybe it's as happened in bayit shenii.. that caused it to finish.
Nb:
DeleteThere is more reason to suggest that you would condemn the chashmonaim, than I would.
1) they primarily fought the yavanim. Today, most of the yeshiva world oppose army service.
2) They didn't have/accept/ or know of the oral law. Thus they are recommended as not knowing if it's permitted to fight on Shabbat. Eventually they made a priestly fire and this is how they received an answer. That's not how the Sanhedrin or poskim decide.
3) Alexander yannai was their king. According to the historian Josephus, he was the kohen gadol who was pelted with esrogim, because he didn't accept nisuch hamayim.
This led to a civil war. Ended up with the perushim siding with demetrius the rasha, the son of the demetrius who we fought during Chanuka.
This civil war weakened the Jewish nation and ended up with the Romans being drawn in
.
Just to show that civil war is so dangerous.
The women who want to Daven, wear tefillin, and read from the Torah are better than secular who want to eat lobster, get tattooed, and experience every other avodah Zarah.
Fighting them for their love of Hashem is not the correct way.
Kol tuv, and be blessed.
The Hashomanaim were Chardalim, no question about it, until they achieved power and then a generation later they went to the Tzaduki side.
DeleteThe point of WoW is that they are there to antagonize. They have a section at the southwest corner of the Wall set aside for them but they refuse to use it because their whole point is to bother people. But the response to that isn't to riot, it's to ignore them. Don't give them the response they want.
"1) they primarily fought the yavanim"
DeleteWould you like to repeat that nowadays?? As in Amnon Danker's op-ed to modern day Hellenists who celebrate Chanukah?? Superb
Though instead the charedim default into being Russian style Refuseniks
Nb - So you (like Reform) would remove the al hanissim from your siddur, because it says they fought the yavanim?
DeletePerhaps you fantasize about your haaretz subscription when you are reading the siddur, to notice what the war was about?
Nb "So you & yours don't care for preserving the sanctity of the kotel?"
DeleteThere's a story about the priests who would run up the ramp in order win the race to perform korbanos.
One is stabbed by a knife 🔪, and his father is too concerned about the sanctity of the knife.
That's the crocodile tears you spill when you speak about the kotel, when these char idiots through faeces at women davening there.
Litmus test re: Israel
ReplyDeletea.You're a narcissist
b.Orthodox Judaism is in it's essence always was/is horribly intolerant* & archaic.Not your cup of tea,excepting perhaps basic rote ritual.
* As it should appear to be.Too many past generations have already gone into the trash heap due to undue tolerance of [adult] pet idiosyncrasies
c. Deceitfully spout a few sporadic references re:tolerance askew of any context while going through the motions
d.You're of the cut & consistent enough to take tolerance to it's conclusion eg terrorist promoters,nazis, rapists
Final option
e.While their method might be a little juvenile [the degenerate political system of Israel across the spectrum lends itself to that]& though it causes indigestion to actually admit,a straightforward orthodox Jew would accept that the charedim & allies who defend the kotel are on target & deserve backing !
Once agreement on this is reached we can have a cozy armchair debate over tactics
For every humrah, there's a kulah.
DeleteFor every riot defending the honour of the kollel, there's thousands of Jews who look and say "Well if that's the Torah lifestyle, pass the bacon."
Topic avoidance
DeleteNo, my point is that they think they're protecting the honour of the Kosel. Instead, they're committing a massive Chilul HaShem which accomplishes nothing because next month it just happens again. The WoW thrive on the attention. it's what brings them back. If they were ignored, after a few months they'd start to fall away but the thought "Good, we'll get the Chareidim riled up and people will see they're savages!" motivates them. And the Chareidim never fail to disappoint.
DeleteKA,spewing typical regurgitated humdrum ignorance
ReplyDeleteThe same source for Sinat chinam being the cause of the destruction give several examples of sinat chinam. One of which:m'dlo mechu.Correct.
Not publicly chastising wrongdoers was part & parcel of sinat chinam!
You weren't ever told that,were you?
Nb _ Ever tried publicly chastising Hamas and Mamdani? Or are you too busy hosting them in your sukkah?
DeleteNice attempt.Juvenile comments keeps you snug in the same company as rambunctious charedi youths at the kotel.Go apply.
DeleteFilling in for a multiple choice would be so insurmountable ?
DeleteWay back in the heyday of the Jewish blogsphere there was this one guy, Jewish Philosopher. A real jerk, limited Torah knowledge but excellent in philosophical techniques. He'd troll OTD blogs and taunt the bloggers, then sit back as the usual torrent of "You're a horrible..." retorts came through. Then he'd throw in another nasty comment. And I was the only one, it seems, who realized that he was doing this for kicks and advised people to just ignore him. If you do, I said, he'll go away and look to bother someone else. No one listened.
Delete(No one ever listens to Zathrus!)
And the WoW situation is the same. They are doing this specifically because they know how the Chareidim will react and the Chareidim never let them down.
Nb - there are rules to tochecha, and you don't go around beating up people is one of them.
DeleteThe kotel is not the Beit hamikdash, it's a retaining wall built by Herod, the menuval non Jewish king, who expanded the temple.
It's also not hareidi property, especially those who hold by the 3 oaths - which is all of them.
Next, the hellenists in Maccabees were hiding their Judaism, their bris milah was concealed.
So the wow wear tzitzit, tefillin, read from the Torah. Their only crime is that they are women.
That's the main reason you attack them. You don't want to give them any guidance or discussion. You just want a. Cheap fight, because you are too chicken to fight the Hamas and hezbolla, and too lazy to learn all day, so you go there for the thrill of violence.
At least some chardal go to the army, but not all.
Nb
DeleteSome basic tochacha rules
https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Mitzvah_of_Rebuke
Didn't Chazal say that in their times there was already no one skilled enough to give proper tochacha? So how is it with yeridos hadoros we now have 100 000's of people who are self-proclaimed experts and eager to prove it?
DeleteAnd here's the result of a Torah-true yeshiva education: https://www.timesofisrael.com/13-cops-hurt-as-ultra-orthodox-riot-in-jerusalem-police-use-tear-gas-arrest-four/
DeleteKA,
DeleteSo the answer then is b + c
Thanks for the clarification.In case there was any doubt.
Garnel,
Pretty much every other mode eg non-judgemental tolerance , has tried over the past couple centuries.The results on a collective level haven't been much of an improvement,if at all.The miscreants just ate it up.
Furthermore Sacrilege is still sacrilege.Seems that doesn't stir you & yours enough?!?
The Tallit media hogging rabble-rousers are keenly aware that for a larger demographic such as sephardim the reaction is almost the diametric opposite as you wish to imply. If/when there's no heated reaction they'll absorb the message sanctity isn't of import to religious people cf. Devarim rashi 25:18
Nb
DeleteVery little of what you say actually makes any sense.
You throw around lots of words and make pseudo sentences
But it's not clear what you are attempting to say.
Sacrilege in Hebrew is meilah.
Are you saying women wearing tefillin and reading the sefer Torah is meilah? It depends on how they are doing it. Are they doing it to lehachis? That is to make chas vshalom Anger Hashem?
Or is it naivety thinking their humanistic halacha is ok?
A woman's minyan per se is not assur.
The Kotel plaza is not the Temple itself. You don't need ashes of the parah aduma to go there.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious, did the rabbis dare to attack Herod who built this extension of the temple mount?.
He wasn't halachically Jewish. But they praise him, not throw dirt on him. Are you more holy than chazal at that time?
Herod was halakhically Jewish as a forcibly converted Idumean. He and Agrippas weren't legitimate kinds since they were converts and not born Jews.
DeleteAnd no, the rabbis didn't attack Herod. They didn't want to be crucified (literally). But there is a halakhic discussion of how Herod expanded the Temple Mount platform to accommodate his bigger and better Temple without all the necessary approvals from the Sanhedrin.
The rabbis were wise not to attack him. But I'm sure the keyboard warriors on here would feel important enough to protest against him.
Deleteherod was halakhicly a slave, his father was migayir lishem avdus.
DeleteHerod was Idumean, what was left of Edom. The Hashmonaim captured the country and forsibly converted everyone to Judaism. That's how he became a Jew. He was then forcibly taken into slavery.
DeleteHerod was put in power by Rome, and Israel was under Roman rule. So those who talk about the 3 oaths and say having a state is assur - why do they mourn the 2nd temple? Wasn't it assur to have a temple under the rule of foreigners? That's the logic of the oathers.
DeleteNo, that's a weak argument. The return to Zion and rebuilding of the Temple was authorized by the ruling power of the time, Persia. What's more, when they said "Stop" at one point, the Jews stopped. So you can't suggest they should've closed the Temple when the Romans came in.
DeleteAnd frankly, given Satmar's twisted ideology, they'd likely tell you they'd rather have a Temple run by the Romans than by the Israelis!
No, the question to ask the Satmars and their ilk is how they have no problem with the Hashmonaim dynasty despite them not being from Beis Dovid? Were all their governments illegitimate?
There was a gentleman here a few years back, Berel. He would have some very far fetched explanations. Eg they all had nevuah.
DeleteOne may only rebuke if he thinks that if his friend will listen. If he knows that he won’t listen, it is forbidden for him to rebuke him [6].
ReplyDeleteJust as one is commanded to speak when it will be heard, so too one is commanded (or it is an obligation even) to not speak when one will not be heard [7].
If one sees a person sin unintentionally and knows that he will not heed rebuke, if the sin isn’t explicit in the Torah, one shouldn’t rebuke that person. Some say one should rebuke a person only if he is familiar with him. [8]
KA,
ReplyDeleteNot so simple.
There are actually two separate categories: macha'ah vs Tochachah
Macha'ah is mandated even while the antagonist won't listen at all
Tochachah onthe other hand is (generally in private &) as you stated
Either way seems AI has been hard at work
I previously posted the source to the article on halachipedia, so this was a copy from that source, not AI.
DeleteGive me your sources on macha'ah and what it applies to, AI or otherwise, thank you
Still no halachic sources for "macha'ah"
DeleteIt bears virtually no relevance to Orthodox jews as to origins eg whether Herod built the kotel
DeleteAs you & yours subscribe full throated to evolution to a level of fetish-Follow where it leads.We've & it evolved since a la "Death of the Author"
As R S Freifeld would aptly put it:It matters far less from where we're & they are coming from, than as to where you & they are going
Furthermore, neither he nor myself have a need to defend source material viz a viz to your neo-secularism.How about trying to research previously referenced sources? halachipedia & similar instant guides aren't for genuine McCoys
Pity you took no classes in English writing, as nothing you say is legible. Evolution, fetish, etc. are you on drugs or have a developmental problem? "You and yours" , a phrase you throw around too much.
DeleteJust camouflage and word salad to cover up the fact you don't know what you are talking about.
Nb
DeleteThis is about protests. Even the rabbis disagreed.
Rav malca disagreed with Rav elyashiv. Rav elyashiv talks about it not being lifnei over
https://www.koltorah.org/halachah/shabbat-demonstrations-in-israel-by-rabbi-chaim-jachter
But he ignores the the lifnei iver, that it would draw police to the protest..
Anyway, Rav shach permitted certain protests but said any violence is assur.
So there you are. Rav shach was not neo secularist, or any of your other screeds. The violence against the women is totally assur.
And davening is not an aveira comparable to chillul Shabbat.
You think it's a mitzvah to break up someone davening?
Nb "virtually no relevance to Orthodox jews as to origins eg whether Herod built the kotel"
DeleteA) You are not qualified to speak on behalf of all orthodox Jews.
B) Herod was not a frum Jew.
His halachic status as a Jew is apparently disputed.
C) not only did he build the outer retaining wall to enlarge the platform, but he also rebuilt the temple which had been destroyed by the Greeks or refurbished it.
This might be beyond your intellectual capabilities to comprehend, but for those who oppose the state of Israel and any contacts or building on Temple mount , on the grounds that the zionists were secular, then that disqualifies the works of king Herod as well.
Interesting that the Talmud praises Herod for his work.
Therefore, the opposition to founding a state of Israel doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
Name dropping those who KA despises.Pretty brazen,but give him a score for audacity.
DeleteEven the devil quoth Scripture ..
nb = ah (ad hominem) - you can't produce any real arguments to support your position, so you rely on obscure attacks, and also you can't provide any sources to back your claims - because you probably don't understand your own position
DeleteHolding up a mirror. Transparency is the best disinfectant
Deletenb: "Name dropping those who KA despises" - you despise because he said violence is assur.
Delete"aren't for genuine McCoys" - so you simply say you are the real thing, therefore we should be believe you!
The conclusion of 1:11 is complete non-starter.For reasons beyond your intellectual capacity & spiritual acuity.
ReplyDeleteThere's always hope.Behave & we'll try to help your descendants.
I am talking about the claim that secularists cannot do anything good. This is refuted by Herod rebuilding the Temple.
DeleteThere's an additional disproof of such a claim, and it goes back to , well where do we start.. Yehuda and Tamar, , Ruth.. David and Bathsheva,... the line of Moshiach always comes from a backhander, to throw the accuser off trail. This is likely what satmar is doing, even if only subconsciously, they want to give zero legitimacy to the Zionist input to Moav process.. because deep down they agree with rav Kook and friends.
I miss Ironhead at times like this.
DeleteIronhead was more entertaining, and could learn something from him
Delete