Just received the following letter which I will discuss with a number of talmidei chachomim before deciding what to do. Would appreciate reader feedback also.
I am not sure why the Dodelson's required Rabbi Weiss to ask me - the Dodelson's could have asked themselves. I assume that indicates that the Dodelson's think that I am an agent of the Weiss Family just as Shira Dicker was an agent of the Dodelson's.
It simply isn't true. In fact my concern was to present both sides - not to force the Dodelson's to concede defeat - as Shira Dicker tried to do to the Weiss Family. I sincerely tried to present the Dodelson's viewpoint - including having guest posts from their supporters and posting their supporters comments.
==========================================
Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,
Our family greatly appreciates your standing up for Torah, halachah and your convictions in supporting Avrohom Meir Weiss and our family throughout these past many months.
We are very well aware that you are completely independent from our family, and that you took up this cause on on your own, as a matter of conscience.
However, as a preclude to the get, the two parties entered into a mutual consent order, and we committed to request that you remove any references to this dispute from your website.
We respectfully request that you do so.
Our family greatly appreciates your standing up for Torah, halachah and your convictions in supporting Avrohom Meir Weiss and our family throughout these past many months.
We are very well aware that you are completely independent from our family, and that you took up this cause on on your own, as a matter of conscience.
However, as a preclude to the get, the two parties entered into a mutual consent order, and we committed to request that you remove any references to this dispute from your website.
We respectfully request that you do so.
Thank you,
Yisroel Weiss
I'm surprised that you don't realize the way you blogged sure looked that you were an agent of the Weiss,s. Enough shmutz already. To even think that you shouldn't take it down is either foolishness or evil.
ReplyDeleteThe answer, take them down. Enough of you and your brother causing and spreading chillul Hashem.
"A sane voice" indicates that when I quoted the Poskim to prove that the Dodelsons were making mamzerim I had made a Chilul HaShem. I suppose that is part of the new Torah that the Rosh Yeshvias in lakewood invented. I encourage my brother to keep up his blog because the gangsters have nobody else to fear.
DeleteWhen you violate open halacha teachings and fire people to force a GET that would create mamzerim, and then you start whining that people should not talk about it, because you are so sensitive, we have a right to refuse. No matter what my brother does, I will not stop watching each and every person, especially relatives Rosh Yeshivas, who create mamzerim. That is the ultimate child abuse, and no amount of whining is going to stop me.
To my knowledge I have never even seen or spoke to the husband Weiss, and he is not going to tell me what to do with my life. Surely t the mamzer produces are not going to tell me anything.
Those who support the demands of the Dodelsons to erase our work in fighting Dodelson's terror show that halacha means nothing to them. Anyone who works day and night to torture people when the Torah clearly forbids any coercion of a GET or the GET will be invalid and the children mamzerim, has no right to ask for anything except for a course in reading the Shulchan Aruch.
DeleteR Dovid,
DeleteFrom your comments it seems safe to assume that you believe Avroham Meir Weiss was totally in the right throughout this entire saga.But it doesn't take genius to realize he was not responding in appropirate fashion. He demanded and got modifications of custody of his son plus a large amount of money for granting the divorce. If he really cared about his son - why did he sit on this same offer for two years. If he thought he had a valid case why didn't he stay and work with the beis din or work through his rabbonim instead of how he did?
Pardon my stupidity but I simply can not imagine any rational explanation for his behavior that conforms with Torah. Perhaps you can explain how a talmid chachom could justify having his wife be an aguna for a few years?
Avrohom Meir Weiss' main goal was additional custody and visitation rights to his precious son. B"H by holding out he won significantly more custody and visitation rights. Kudos to him for holding out for so long after so much pressure. All for his son.
Deletewhy is offering to use a zabla not working with the bais din the ignoring of his letter by the bais din was the not working with halacha
DeleteNot Kluhr,
DeleteIts apparent that you don't know the details of the case. What type of Daas Torah kind of justifiable response do you expect from this Ben Torah? Our Gedolim always held that we should stay out of the secular media, and that is what he did!!! The money demanded had no direct connection to the Get, it rather had to do with the legal fees Gital incurred when running away with his child. She owed it to him, she paid it to him. He had no reason to give her a Get (which she was never halachicly deserving of) before settling that issue. What was the same offer he sat on for 2 years??? Stay and work with what Bais Din? That Bais Din that wrote a Siruv without any justification? Please do us all a favor: sit down and learn through all the details of the Halachos of what, when, where, how - Bais Din summons someone to them! and BTW - How did he act? In accordance with his rabbaim!
It's hard to pardon stupidity when you make youself into a public fool!
When does a woman receive the title Agunah? When the either cannot be found or when a Bais Din orders her husband to give her a Get, and he refuses. Now which one was Avrohom Meir Weiss? (FYI, just incase you didn't realize: Gital didn't go to a Bais Din for a Get, the time she went to Bais Din was about the court case)
Is that what AMW told you. Pathetic. And your ability to be mislead by that loser is unbelievable. All he got was money.
DeleteHe didn't get money. The lawyers got money for the legal expenses she forced him to incur.
DeleteWhat he got was additional time with his child. And for that it was well worth waiting however long it took him to secure more time with his child.
It is regrettable it took the Dodelsons this long to agree to allow a child have more time with his own father.
Dvar Torah,
DeleteThat is, put simply, untrue. He got money for the get, not for lawyers. He got virtually no more time with his son- unless you think that this while thing was worth the extra 1/2 hour he got on every other Friday.
If he wants to use the money for the legal bills he got himself by stupidly following the advice of uncle Sruly, that's his prerogative, but all he did here was give a get for a monetary payoff.
Saying there was somehow a reason to tie this payoff to his legal bills in order to make it less of a payoff is dishonest. Perhaps if he had gone to an impartial third party Rov (as Gital had originally requested, but he refused) he might have ended up with more.
Dovevos,
DeleteThat is, put simply, untrue. The money he got was based - and solely based - on the lawyer & court fees. To keep your smear campaign going - claiming AM was trying to "extort" money for the Get etc. - is A) Blatantly untrue B) Disgusting Motzei Shem Rah C) Complete and utter chutzpah against R' Shmuel, who long ago requested to stop it.
In regards to the "virtually no more time with his son" claim:
Your old (but probably a lie, just like your other claims have proven to be) claim that you are a "unmarried Bochur" shines clearly! First of all, as parent I can vouch, that every extra moment with your child is precious! Even more so, when your child was taken away from you, and is being held by someone who bluntly only has intentions of destroying you and your relationship with him! Secondly, although I don't know ALL the fine details of the final agreement, I do know that there were many other parts of that agreement that allowed more time & eased the strain in visitation rights.
Dvar Torah and Pursuit of Honesty are correct. The only payment Dodelson made was towards the legal expenses. Not a penny more. The Weiss' made a grand total of $0.00. In fact the Dodelsons did not cover the entire expense and the Weiss' are still at a financial loss of the legal costs.
DeleteThe primary thing AMW sought -- and Baruch Hashem received -- was greater visitation time with his son. And I agree with the above posters that it was well worthwhile for him to have waited this out until the Dodelson's guaranteed him this.
If the Dodelsons had guaranteed it earlier instead of forcing the Weiss' to run-up tremendous legal costs, this whole saga could have been amicably and quietly settled years ago.
At this point the only thing I can imagine Gital got out of her family's vindictive behavior is that who will now want to marry someone who has proven she will wage a massive public media battle and hire public relations "consultants" to fight in the worldwide secular non-Jewish media against any potential future spouse who dares to not knowtow her extremely wealthy family. A family that is more than willing to use their deep financial resources to destroy any future spouse who dares to not bow to their every demand.
RDE,
ReplyDeleteRespond that you will take down all the material as soon as the New York Post, the Forwardm the Jewish Week, the Times of Israel and the other media outlets remove their articles they put up at the instigation of the Dodelson's hired and paid for Shira Dicker public relations hack.
Why should the Dodelson's side remain spread across the internet, on media sites far more powerful than your own little DT blog, while you being one of the very few places that defended the Weiss' should remove the defending points while the other attack articles from the D side remain up and posted all over the internet and powerful websites?
BT makes sense to me
Deletei agree with bt 100% and it definitely should stay up as long as the dodelson posts in the media stay up
DeleteIn 100% agreement with what BT said on February 6, 2014 at 10:34 PM, to repeat:
DeleteRDE,
Respond that you will take down all the material as soon as the New York Post, the Forwardm the Jewish Week, the Times of Israel and the other media outlets remove their articles they put up at the instigation of the Dodelson's hired and paid for Shira Dicker public relations hack.
Why should the Dodelson's side remain spread across the internet, on media sites far more powerful than your own little DT blog, while you being one of the very few places that defended the Weiss' should remove the defending points while the other attack articles from the D side remain up and posted all over the internet and powerful websites?
That's impressive. Both sides want this to be a faint memory so that they can move on as smoothly as possible and so that little Aryeh shouldn't ever stumble upon the words that were launched by his family at each other.
ReplyDeleteI think the question I'd ask myself if I were in your shoes is -- Does leaving the post do anything good for am yisrael and perpetuation of Torah temima. I know it is your feeling that Epstei-Friedma case is still unresolved, so you feel it's important to leave the information public since you feel she is an eishes ish and the world should know that. (Whether you are correct on that or not is not worth my debate here - but your rationale stands there that there's a point for you as the owner of the blog to do a "public service).
I don't think a public service will be had by leaving all the posts about dodalson or weiss here. I think it would be very noble of you to respect their very kindly requested wishes and remove it.
Curious to see what you do. Thanks for sharing this turning point with readers.
First off, wouldn't it make sense that they doubt you would listen to them- considering all that you have (erroneously) written about them?
ReplyDeleteAlso curious that the one making the request here is not Avraham Meir Weiss, not even his father, Yosaif Asher, rather his uncle who lives in a different state than he does. If they committed to ask you to remove it, couldn't they just ask you themselves? It makes it seem as if there is some sort of relationship between yourself & Yosroel Weiss.
It's a much better Kashya why the Weiss's couldn't ask you themselves than why Dodelson couldn't.
And did Yisroel Weiss sign the consent order? Does his asking you even fulfill the terms of the order? He's (whether he likes it or not) an outside party. Being the uncle doesn't make him the person the order refers to.
ReplyDeleteGreat point. Especially if you consider this:
DeleteDT posted in a comment, " Dicker clearly is not out of the picture or is Gital's mother or any of the other forces which have been unleased in this case." As a way of criticizing the D's (as if a 25 year old divorcee isn't supposed to have her mother involved in her life.)
Yet the fact that this 30(ish) year old AMW has an uncle who need to be the one all involved is not something that requires any comment?
Yisroel Wiess has benn the Spokesperson for the Wiesses all along!!!
Delete& Gital's mother is what? Just someone who paid 6 digits to AMW so that he'd finally give a get? Face it sonny, all your "Champion" got from this entire story was a check. He got close to next to nothing in the rest of the agreement- that's why you "third parties" aren't talking about what exactly the rest of the agreement was about. If he had not listened to the advice of his genius uncle a year or two ago, he would've gotten more money for it- there was an offer on the table of such which he turned down! So keep repeating whatever spin AM, Yosaif A & Uncle Sruly sell you- but your boy misplayed his hand here, & that's why the Dodelsons are celebrating & the Weiss's are upset.
DeleteThe father got significantly additional visitation and custody access as a result of the final agreement he held out for. This was his overriding goal. And B"H he has succeeded in having much greater access to his precious son now.
Deletestirah; you obviously don't realize that he wasn't in this for the money it was actually from the less important things considering that he would have lost his son
DeleteStirah,
DeleteThe only one that made this into a "story", and brought this into the public eye was the Dodelsons. AMW never had intentions of "getting something out of this entire story". AMW got a larger portion of custody then he till now, and he finally got the money they owed from years ago.
Nmh,
DeleteThat's true except for the fact tht he got nothing but money.
As someone who spoke to someone who was involved in the settlement, I can say for a fact that AMW got nothing of significance other than money. If anyone here wants to challenge that assertion, please let me know what it was. 1/2 hour more on every other erev shabbos? Lol
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteTime over the phone/internet, more time on erev Shabbos, being able to visit Staten Island during the week, as well as many other fine details were worked into the final agreement, before giving a Get to his wife who destroyed so much. He should have waited longer, maybe then he would have given the Get under his own will - Not being forced and harassed by people like you - and then he wouldn't be obligated to regive her Get!
Shimi- how would he have "otherwise lost his son" when he had visitation twice a week? Plus every other weekend?
DeletePursuit of Honesty- you have been misinformed. He did not get the ability to go to Staten Island during the week. All he's allowed to do is go to Staten Island 1 out of every 4 visitations- 2 times a month. Don't post things tht are not true.
Just the facts,
DeleteI can't find where I wrote any amount more then that. I wrote to Dovevos stating some of the additional visitation rights he received. In the past, he had no option off taking his child to his home in Staten Island, now he does.
You still may get the same request from the Dodelsons. It sounds like they both agreed to forward a request to you.
ReplyDeleteLast question. Wouldn't Weiss want you to take this down so that, as he told the SI Advance little Aryeh wouldn't need to see it when he gets older? Why does he say it's only because of the consent order?
ReplyDeleteZol Zein,
DeleteThe worst would be for Aryeh to find articles and interviews bashing his Chashuva father without being able to see the other side of the story...
""We have a grandchild here, the sweetest child you will ever meet, who doesn't understand any of this, who one day is going to grow up and have to read this," Rabbi Weiss said. "We don't want him to think that we could ever say anything bad against his mother, no matter what she did."
Deletehttp://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/a_jewish_women_who_has_been_de.html
You should try to square away what you think the "party line" is with what Weiss has said in the past.
Stirah,
DeleteNow you can go search the internet and quote the various Dodelson statements about disconnecting the child from his father and about destroying Yeshiva of Staten Island etc... when they clean that up, come back...
dude its over if not for you
ReplyDeleteThe stuff on the NY Post website and the websites of the Forward and Jewish Week and Times of Israel and Haaretz and JPost and others will remain up indefinitely presenting a only that side. (And a non-halachic side at that.)
ReplyDeleteIf anything is deleted, the halachic arguments should not be deleted as the halachic arguments and discussions on this are worthwhile for preserving for future reference.
ReplyDeleteThe secular media continues to blast anw and family in particular and Halacha in general. Those items are continuing and in any case will remain on the web.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that the Dodelsons becoming general Agunah advocates as they claim, would necessarily keep drawing this particular case back into the news in the future.
ReplyDeletehear hear, Puzzled. Dodelsons are out to carve for themselves an ideological cyber groove. Don't play in to it.
DeleteThe small beacon of truth regarding this whole matter - should be removed?
ReplyDeleteThe permanent Chillul Hashem that the Dodelson's caused, the NY Post, social media, and all the shmutz and garbage is out there for anyone to read - with no remnant of the truth to combat it?!
This case is important for historical purposes. It illustrates how clear Halacha can be ignored. It shows how proclamations can be signed - in direct contrast to Halacha. It serves a purpose for all to know how this travesty of Halacha occurred. Any researcher of this topic, absent your Halachic comments and background, would be amiss of the Halachic truth.
If you take it down, there will be no record of anyone who protested the unspeakable Chillul Hashem and travesty of Halacha.
R' Eidenson. The very request shows how effective your site is and how they feared your truth telling.
From the "Free Gital" Facebook page:
ReplyDeleteOur campaign to get Gital a halachic divorce has come to an end. As part of our agreement with the Weiss family, we will be deleting this page tonight. However, we have opened a new page to help other women in need of obtaining their gets. Please consider "liking" and "sharing" the following page to show your support for other agunot in need:
https://www.facebook.com/SetAgunotFree
Set Agunot Free
We are a new organization established to help Agunot find peaceful resolutions. More details forthcoming.
Cause: 961 like this
I hope this doesn't mean they are just transferring the Weiss bashing to another page. Some comments there want to do just that:
Rivka Wasserman Lieber Well,is there anything stopping us followers from creating a page,perhaps that says "Never Forget Avrohom Meir Weiss Refusal to give a get" Hmmm.. Just a thought!
It brings to mind the story of the old lady on a train who was moaning incessantly "oy, am I thirsty", disturbing all rhe surrounding passengers. Eventually someone who was fed up brought her a drink. When she finished gulping down the refreshing liquid she leaned back in her chair and began moaning "oy, was I thirsty".....
DeleteWeiss is only requesting it be removed because they are technically obligated to make the request per the Get agreement.
ReplyDeleteThe website http://www.setgitalfree.com/ has been taken down, and the Facebook page will be taken down tonight. Both sides agreed to do whatever they can to remove all references to this dispute from the Internet. I assume it was the Weiss family who made this request, and the Dodelson's who then insisted that it be bilateral.
ReplyDeleteLook at the message on https://www.facebook.com/FreeGital/posts/686334822454
Our campaign to get Gital a halachic divorce has come to an end. As part of our agreement with the Weiss family, we will be deleting this page tonight. However, we have opened a new page to help other women in need of obtaining their gets. Please consider "liking" and "sharing" the following page to show your support for other agunot in need: https://www.facebook.com/SetAgunotFree
Truth Be Told - Gital's supporters are making the mirror image to your argument!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/FreeGital/posts/686334822454?reply_comment_id=1335885&total_comments=2
קולין שפר: A get should be given without any pre-conditions whatsoever....that includes removing the "evidence" that it was withheld in the first place....
Free Gital: Tell Avrohom Meir Weiss to Give His Wife a "Get": While we agree with you in principle, sometimes concessions must be made in order to gain freedom. Sometimes, as loath as we are to do it, compromise must be made, or there will be no progress. And sometimes, when a man has been shamed and humiliated (and rightfully so), he will not give in unless he gets SOMETHING in return, to help save face.
Adam Cohen: You should not honor that agreement.
Free Gital: Tell Avrohom Meir Weiss to Give His Wife a "Get": It is legally binding. And we gave our word.
Confused, thanks for posting and sharing that comment posted an hour ago on Facebook by Gital Dodelson's Facebook administrator.
DeleteIt is sick. And it shows the Dodelsons would rather not delete their website and facebook. They just posted an hour ago that the ONLY reason they are doing it, against their desires, is becausxe they were forced to agree to do so.
As such, Rabbi Eidensohn not being party to this agreement is under no obligation to delete his discussions of this issue. /and considering that Weiss only asked RDE to delete this blog is because Weiss agreed to make the request as part of the agreement, even though he likely doesn't want it deleted, RDE should certainly make the choice of keeping the posts all up.
I agree with the writers above that this blog's agreement to scrub all mention of the incident should only be as "quid pro quo", being contingent on the other side also scrubbing the mud they slung around. Anything less, is unfair to the Weiss's and to Kllal Yisrael.
ReplyDeleteThis blog is really about something bigger than Weiss vs. Dodelson. It's about Daas Torah, and those who see to pervert it or besmirch it. As long as the perversions haven't been rectified, the details should remain as a reminder to those who need to learn the subject.
I think you should remove the posts, names but keep the halachic arguments. I don't believe you need to ask other talmidei chachomim. A machlokes has just been resolved - why would you want to interfere with that resolution? I don't see any value in keeping any names of a situation that is now in the past. That's my humble opinion. What value do you see in keeping the posts against the wishes of both families?
ReplyDeleteTRUTH BE TOLD IS RIGHT!!! THIS BLOG MUST NOT BE REMOVED AS YOU CANNOT ERASE THE TRUTH. aS LONG AS THE CHILUL HASHEM AND LOSHON HORA THAT WAS SPEWED IN THE MEDIA IS NOT TAKEN DOWN, THEN YOU MUST LEAVE THE OTHER OPPOSING OPINION WHICH IS YOUR BLOG UP AND RUNNING SO PEOPLE CAN CLEARLY SEE THE 2 VIEWS.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't going to agree with you, but the fact that you used all caps made me change my mind. I'm with you 100%
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteCan you ever respond with substance?
You can start here: http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2014/01/weiss-dodelson-what-happened-to-new.html
You also convince me 100%- by linking a weeks old post where you present "arguments" with circular reasoning.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteYOU just brought me back to that post by quoting me from there. I'm sorry you didn't have responses to the arguments there...
If both sides consented to remove everything from DT, then why is there articles still looming in other places? My opinion is to leave everything in place. Since you wont be able to control other sites that dont take their blogs down, then at least people will see the halachic perspective behind this domestic fight andapply correct halacha in these matters. Remember DT, alot of Torah is elucidated in this blog and Torah and Emes should never be erased. Additionally, i guarantee you that another famous divorce case will pop up in the future and you will have to start all over again with citing the same halachic arguments.
ReplyDeleteDT: you are independent from the Weiss-Doselson agreement and are not required to abide by their agreement as you are not part of their family. You have the legal classification like any journalist that is free to post as he wishes and even more latitude is given to blog posts where Google allows you to post anything as long as its not a lie or slanderous.
ReplyDeleteThe Dodelson family released a statement
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/FreeGital/posts/686363055874
Here is a statement issued by the Dodelson family:
"The Dodelson family is immensely grateful to all of the people who helped Gital obtain a Get. Your prayers, concern and tears, together with the overwhelming outpouring of support, provided us with strength and encouragement. Unfortunately, we were forced into paying a six-digit sum of money in order to obtain a Get, but it was significantly less than the original demands. We hope and pray that nobody else will need to endure such an ordeal."
The site will be taken down within the next few hours. No woman should have to give in to such demands ever again. Please "like" and "share" the new site: https://www.facebook.com/SetAgunotFree
Clearly Dodelson is continuing their public war against the Weiss' despite the fact that they are taking down their website per their agreement against their wishes. There is no reason DT should delete his article based on a pro forma request that was only made on an agreed to agreement that RDE is not party to.
DeleteAbsolutely. Let's leave everything up so that all the lies & naarishkeit of Weiss & their supporters would be left for all to see forever.
DeleteDovevos,
DeleteYou have one clear intention: Create and continue machlokes!
Perhaps the posts should remain up but the comments should be deleted. The posts after all are, I think, objective and mostly factual. Whereas the comments descend to the depths.
ReplyDeleteI think that as long as the various secular media outlets' articles remain extant, there's only gain and no loss by presenting the opposing arguments and documents. If all the media articles were to be removed then there's be no reason to keep your posts, but that outcome seems very unlikely
Ben
Clearly neither family wants everyone to analyze just how kosher the Get is, and if every demand made was in accordance with Halachah. The agreement to do whatever possible to remove this debate from the Internet originated from the Weiss side. I’m sure that many in the Dodelson would love to find an excuse to get out of the agreement.
ReplyDeletebarely covers out of pocket expenses for counsel. where is the damage of yored lechayov taking away bread and butter from the family's table, ruining reputation of a makom torah, shfichus damim of malbin pnei chavero borabim complete mishpochos hamyuchosos beyisrael. why did you not cease and desist when you were asked by daas torah R'S. what about all the chilul hashem you caused and even paid for it. it will be wise for you to apologise from all parties you have pained, and before you close down your chilul hashem factory, ask mechila from ribono shel olam in front of the whole wide world, ulay yerachem! in any case good luck on the second time around
ReplyDeleteA small price, I read your comment, and it seems you challenge certain people to think about the evil they have caused and how they must answer to HaShem. I can only say that you may have come to the wrong department store. True, HaShem and the Torah are important. But what about cousins?
DeleteR' Dovid, you are right. the same applies to cousins and all parties that have continued to PR against this noble family in spite the decree of "to Cease and Desist" by R' S.K.
DeleteIt would be marbeh kvod shamayim to apologise 'al dvorim shebein odom lachavero' with the same and equal fervor, be'gass' ubechutsot 'ashkelon' beod sheHaner dolek. Ve'ein keli machzik brocho kmo haShalom, shenemar H' oz leamo yiten...
They have the right to ask, and RDE has the right to say no. The femenist assault on halacha needs to be addressed somewhere! Nobody else has the courage to stand up and say what needs to be said. RDE, please do not take down the posts.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if RDE takes everything down that will just give more ammo to those who accuse him of being controlled by the Weiss family. There is NOTHING to be gained by taking the posts down, and much to lose. There will be more Gitals in the future, and it is important to have the truth easily accessible.
According to the request you received, you have been "standing up for Torah, halachah and your convictions" through this website. Isn't that enough reason to let the posts remain?
ReplyDeleteJay says, "dude its over if not for you." Well, Jay says it is over. What is over? The war to coerce Gittin and make mamzerim is over? ORA has disbanded? The rabbis who have signed letters to coerce a husband with MOUS OLEI have changed their mind? The Rosh Yeshivas don't have other cousins or relatives who need to torment their husbands chas vishalom?
ReplyDeleteNow I understand why non of the Roshei Yeshivos and poskim take you seriously. You are so caught up in how You want the Halacha to be, you won't bother even hearing another side which allows harchakos of rabeinu Tam in cases like this especially where one side didn't go to Beis din and took the other side to court. I never saw you mention in any of your rambling posts that you don't find anything wrong with that. You are willing to argue with our greatest poskim and call them mamzerim factories because you can't understand them. So go ahead, why don't you passel up the get like you said you were going to do, or are you scared to do that. All talk and no action . Put everybody in cherem, but first ,maybe learn the shulchan aruch properly, and apply it properly and read the teshuvos written on it.
DeleteRav Eliashev and Rav Moshe Feinstein certainly take Rav Dovid Eidensohn very seriously and with great respect.
DeleteTired of nareshkeit explains why the mamzer factor Rosh Yeshivas don't take me seriously. Now he understands. It is all because I bring down the poskim, not my own opinion, about the ostracizing of Rabbeinu Tam. Although I didn't say a single thing on my own, but merely quoted the sources, because I did not disagree with all of the sources, the Shach, the Gro, the Chazon Ish, the Ramo, this proves that nobody should take my opinions seriously. No wonder you are tired of nareshkeit.
DeleteA new post from the admin of Dodelson's Facebook page:
ReplyDeleteFree Gital: Tell Avrohom Meir Weiss to Give His Wife a "Get"
3 hours ago
Here is a statement issued by the Dodelson family:
"The Dodelson family is immensely grateful to all of the people who helped Gital obtain a Get. Your prayers, concern and tears, together with the overwhelming outpouring of support, provided us with strength and encouragement. Unfortunately, we were forced into paying a six-digit sum of money in order to obtain a Get, but it was significantly less than the original demands. We hope and pray that nobody else will need to endure such an ordeal."
The site will be taken down within the next few hours. No woman should have to give in to such demands ever again. Please "like" and "share" the new site:
The Dodelson's are still taking advantage of every moment of the last few hours they can legally attack the Weiss' before the legal agreement kicks in at midnight tonight when they must remove all attack webpages against the Weiss'. They want to continue their war. They don't want to take down their attack pages, but are forced to. Their rabid attacks in the secular press will remain online for decades. Aryeh will see the NYPost and other secular outlets on the websites giving the Dodelson's side and attacks against his father. He should see the father's side and the halacha here.
Absurd! Ridiculous. You presented BOTH sides. You were no one's agent. But even if you were, hypothetically, consider the fact that the ny post articles cannot be "removed." The facebook campaign cannot be "undone." And just now, with the resolution, dicker and gital's mother just did ANOTHER interview for the media. So where is their effort to remove their own side from the press/media/internet? I don't know the halacha but in my humble opinion you should respectfully deny the request and keep up all sides of this issue for posterity and for historical truth purposes. They made the request but unfortunately for them and the dodelson's it is not a reasonable request. Mind boggling that this could have been involved in the settlement!
ReplyDeleteWe should generally respect people's wishes. You can continue to discuss the important issues by discussing ORA and other cases.
ReplyDeleteThere is no need to ignore his wishes.
Yes, those are his wishes! This snake with the same venom is not excluded from 'cease and desist". 'Hear ye', it is unacceptable. Not then, not now, and not in the future.
DeleteThis case is a lot bigger than Gittal. The Dodelsons insist on helping other fake agunahs. This site needs to maintain its fight against such rishus of women preventing or reducing fathers rights to see their kids.
ReplyDeleteso be more general if thats really your goal
ReplyDeleteWeighing both options:
ReplyDeleteTake them down!
The reason why the posts devoted to this case should be taken down, I think is as follows: I believe the opinion of the Wiesses/Feinsteins is: We do not want our private lives in the public eye! And we don't use the media and the internet as tools to further our cause. That is not the Torah way!
Keep them up!
The reason why the posts devoted to this case should remain up and available, I think is as follows: It is important that for as long as the case is searchable on the internet, and the Dodelson's PR work is still readable, the Weisses side of the story should remain available to the public. Here are some of the reasons why one would effect the other: 1) B'ezras Hashem Avrohom Meir will seek to remarry, obviously the other side will do lots of research. It is important that they read some of the many responses to Dodelson's claims. 2) One day Aryeh Weiss may come across some of the articles, interviews, and more, it is important that he also see that his father cared and sacrificed so much for him, never publicly bashed his mother, and isn't really as bad as the smear campaign made him out to be. 3) Many of the victims of the smear & boycott campaigns have been badly hurt. By keeping "the other side of the story" available to their supporters and the public, it may ease there recuperation (if they can recuperate at all).
To sum it up:
In my humble opinion, until the internet is clean of the Dodelson's PR results, there isn't enough reason to take it down.
My Psak: "Shev V'al Taaseh"
Mixed in with whatever useful information may be in these posts are a lot of very hateful comments. You should delete the posts.
ReplyDeleteMy humble opinion is...
ReplyDeleteR' Daniel should first try to find out what the Weiss Family themselves really want, had this not been included in the agreement...
If they sincerely feel that deleting is good for them, their opinion should be taken into CONSIDERATION.
No, I'm not suggesting it should be totally up to them. I do feel however, that their preference should be the starting point.
I just learnt in perek Cheilek in Sanhedrin that Dovid Hamelech asked Hashem to erase the entire chapter of his Batsheva encounters, but Hashem stated that it will remain forever. You cant change the course of history just because someone asks to change it.
ReplyDeleteMazel Tov! The Dodelson side has now definitely taken down their main website at http://www.setgitalfree.com/ ("Set Gital Free") that now reads: "Site Not Published: The site you are looking for has not been published".
ReplyDeleteSo now with that their old Facebook page is down as well, the question is, how are the Dodelsons going to deal with getting the rest of the secular and Jewish international media to take down all the negative attack articles, stories and posts they have on their websites? They must do that too. After all, many of those were created by the "Shira Dicker" agent who ran to the media and arranged those stories to spread so now they too must come down. Otherwise it makes no sense to leave all that up, and take down the one place where the other side had an opportunity to be defended.
tell dodelson weiss has kept their side of the bargain by asking you to take it down. but you are an independent agent and do not work for him. But you are willing to hear their concerns and can be called during office hours.
ReplyDeleteThe Moral stain the Kotler family has left by taking our dirty laundry to the secular media will not be washed away. Regardless of the posts removed.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, I am not acquainted with anyone involved in this controversy, and I suggest that the posts be retained. Perhaps not forever, since much was said by commenters that should not have been said, and Aryeh is entitled to some privacy.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, the issue that I believe was of central importance to DT is still alive and relevant: the risk of an invalid get me'usah (and mamzerim by any subsequent union) that arises when it is erroneously believed that (1) absent a determination by a valid beit din, or (maybe?) a valid pre-nuptial agreement, a husband has an automatic, halakhic obligation to give his wife a get following the conclusion of civil divorce proceedings; and (2) that this supposed obligation may be "enforced" by social and monetary coercion against the husband (and in this case, his family), or worse.
To this issue there became joined a second one, of possibly greater importance: that highly respected Rabbonim, many of whom are honored as "Gedolim," were willing to sign a "Kol Koreh" on behalf of a well-connected wife authorizing coercive measures against her husband, when it appears that the signatories did not make reasonable inquiry into the facts, appeared to be mistaken concerning the relevant halakhah, and, it is undisputed, never asked the husband concerning his side of the case. The implications go far beyond this one particular dispute, and touch upon the integrity of rabbinic authority. So I respectfully suggest that there is sufficient reason to leave the relevant posts on this website for now and to respectfully decline the Weiss family's request.
Rabbi Daniel,
ReplyDeleteTo quote you: ...discuss with a number of talmidei chachomim before deciding what to do.
Did you already consurlt those 'number of talmidei chachomim' ? If Yes what did they say and who were they?
If not what are you waiting for? Is Keeping this 'garbage' up still 'letoeles'?
Many above commenters gave very good and coherent toeles reasons why it is important to keep the posts up.
DeleteVine.
ReplyDeleteDo we conclude that: ...number of talmidei chachomim... = Many above commenters...?
Is this equation correct?
Move it man & Newbie pshat,
DeleteTo quote RDE correctly: "I will discuss with a number of talmidei chachomim before deciding what to do. Would appreciate reader feedback also."
Apparently he wanted both. The reader's feedback clearly still want it up!
Move it man asked
DeleteIs Keeping this 'garbage' up still 'letoeles'?
Vine answered
Many above commenters gave very good and coherent toeles reasons why it is important to keep the posts up.
Newbie pshat you then pursue
Vine.
Do we conclude that: ...number of talmidei chachomim... = Many above commenters...?
Is this equation correct?
and I say:
your question has already been answered by many commenters! ("Vine")
you then again ask: if to conclude that blah blah blah = yada yada yada.
here are a few equations 4 u. ur comprehension = nada, ur math = 0, and ur logic ~ undefined.
ur chutspah can percipitate the coming of moshiach. maybe you should try your luck to polish shoes.
other than that, u sound like a great guy. Simchat Purim.
Aye Hillel.
DeleteWhat you got up your sleeve for the real purim?
This was good for purim Katan.
Thanx anyway.
Hineni. And as for the real Purim, ze hakatan gadol yihye. BTW, it is kosher gam shaar yemos hashono.
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ReplyDelete