Monday, December 16, 2013

Weiss Dodelson: Double Standards of the Kol Koreh signers

Guest Post by RaP: [Updated with part 2 and 3]

R. Aron Schechter's signature on the "kol koreh" against AMW is a total joke if one simply remembers what an ongoing chillul HaShem he has caused for almost 35 years by refusing the summonses of various batei din and of Rav Moshe Feinstein Z"TL to come to a din Torah, as the attached documents attest.

(The attached documents, long available online, speak for themselves and explain the hypocrisy and chillul Hashem.)

update from DT
ספר חפץ חיים - הלכות אסורי לשון הרע - כלל י
ג. וְכָל זֶה אִם הָרוֹאֶה טוֹב מִמֶּנּוּ, אֲבָל אִם הוּא (יג) חוֹטֵא כְּמוֹתוֹ, וְגַם הוּא חוֹלֶה בַּעֲבֵרוֹת הָאֵלֶּה כָּמוֹהוּ, הֲרֵי זֶה אָסוּר לְפַרְסְמוֹ. כִּי אִישׁ כָּזֶה, אֵין כַּוָּנָתוֹ בְּגַלּוֹתוֹ מִסְתָּרָיו לְטוֹבָה וּלְיִרְאָה, כִּי אִם לִשְׂמֹחַ לָאֵיד וּלְבַזּוֹתוֹ בָּזֶה. וּכְבָר נֶאֱמַר בְּעִנְיָן זֶה (הוֹשֵׁעַ א' ד'), "וּפָקַדְתִּי אֶת דְּמֵי יִזְרְעֶאל עַל בֵּית יֵהוּא", הִנֵּה כִּי אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁעָשָׂה יֵהוּא מִצְוָה בְּהַכְרִיתוֹ אֶת בֵּית אַחְאָב בְּיִזְרְעֶאל, כִּי נִצְטַוָּה כֵּן עַל יְדֵי נָבִיא, וְנִתְּנָה לוֹ עֲבוּר זֶה מְלוּכָה עַד אַרְבָּעָה דּוֹרוֹת, כְּמוֹ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (מְלָכִים ב', י' ל'), "יַעַן אֲשֶׁר כִּלְבָבִי עָשִׂיתָ לְבֵית אַחְאָב, בְּנֵי רְבָעִים יֵשְׁבוּ לְךָ עַל כִּסֵּא יִשְׂרָאֵל", בְּכָל זֹאת נִפְקַד עָלָיו לְבַסּוֹף דְּמֵי אַחְאָב, מִפְּנֵי כִּי גַּם הוּא הָיָה רַב פֶּשַׁע:




Part 2: Weiss/Dodelson: Double Standards of the Signers:

It is well known that Rav Aron Schechter is the "first among equals" on the current American Aguda's Moetzes and that he has the final veto on any decision. Thus his signature on the "kol koreh" on behalf of the Dodelsons-Kotlers and against the Weisses-Feinsteins is not just "another signature" but it is "the signature", meaning that once he signs, then automatically his strongest allies Rav Yaakov Perlow and Rav Aron Feldman also sign. The other signers are just weaker add-ons without the prestige and automatic pull of the Aron Schechter-Yaakov Perlow-Aron Feldman (Chaim Berlin alumni) troika.

Rav Aron Schechter's signature on the anti-Weiss "kol koreh" is its strategic key and paradoxically also its weakest link, because of the fact that Rav Aron Schechter himself decades ago set the trend of refusing to appear before bais din -- any bais din -- multiple times.

There were not one, not two, not three, but four hazmonas (see attached copies of originals) that Rav Aron Schechter ignored from the bais din of the Hisachdus HaRabbanim (the Central Rabbinical Congress of Satmar founded by Rav Yoel Teitelbaum ZT"L a person and group greatly respected by Chaim Berliners -- but not when they got summoned by its bais din!) besides the hazmona from Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT"L at that time the head of the Moetzes and known at that time by all as the Gadol HaDor.

Rav Aron Schechter remains steadfast in his own refusal to come to bais din while at the same time it is expected that the Weisses-Feinsteins should "come running" to settle.

In addition to which,extra-judicial severe threats of an ambiguous "blood bath" were used by Rav Carlebach's opponents on behalf of Rav Aron Schechter for which they were excoriated by leading Rabbanim, such as Rav Dr. Shamshon Weiss Z"L (see his attached letter) of Washington Heights (see his obituary in  New York Times obituary for Rav Weiss ). Now if that is not called a double standard and hypocrisy, then nothing is.

One thing is certain, that the Weisses-Feinsteins are being subjected to the same cynical brutal tactics, of all-out war, as was Rav Shlomo Carlebach and in both cases Rav Aron Schechter is at the center of the fight. Remove him and his signature from the "kol koreh" and the whole case of the Dodelsons collapses with its "krumme heterim" to abuse the Weisses.

It is time for Rav Aron Schechter to remove his signature, or for it to be declared null and void, on the abusive anti-Weiss "kol koreh" and be called on his unacceptable and untenable actions and reprimanded en masse for them by the Torah world. There is nothing to fear for standing up for the Emes. The time for such "old school" bullying tactics "in the name of halacha" has come to an end.



Part 3: Weiss/Dodelson: Double Standards of the Signers

What type of people have the audacity to sign on to crazy "kol korehs" to destroy fellow-Jews befitting Amalek as in this case against the Weisses-Feinsteins, when they themselves have never responded to far more serious dinei Torah and multiple summonses from batei din and pleas from Gedolim (from Rav Y.Y. Ruderman, Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky, Rav M. Gifter, Rav Schwab Zichronam Livracha, and others) against themselves?

What kind of people have one standard, or lack of standard, for themselves, but expect others to follow an entirely different set of "holier than thou" declarations? How about one set of standards for everyone? Not for some it would seem.

There should be no doubt about the status of Rav Aron Schechter as a lo tzayis dino (one in contempt of bais din, see attached documents), in this case the batei din of Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT"L and of the CRC's founded by Rav Yoel Teitelbaum. The refusal of Rav Aron Schechter (what was/is he afraid of, that he would LOSE?) to bring to closure the matter of the genuine dinei Torah initiated by Rav Shlomo Carlebach has cost him and the Chaim Berlin people dearly. The core of the case revolves around both monetary issues relating to severance pay as well as to who is still supposed to be the authorized mashgiach ruchani of the Chaim Berlin yeshiva.

Rav Moshe Feinstein stated and ruled (see above documents) that as long as the matter has not been brought to closure, that Rav Carlebach remains as the only legitimate mashgiach ruchani and that no one is allowed to replace him. Rav Moshe Feinstein further ruled that as long as the matter is not resolved in bais din, then a regular salary is still owed to Rav Carlebach which after 35 years would amount to quite a big sum since Rav Carlebach is still B"H alive and active and has never abandoned his title and claims.

To re-affirm his support for Rav Carlebach in the midst of this ongoing situation, Rav Moshe Feinstein granted him a personal semicha (see attached).

But it goes further than that, a few years back Chaim Berlin yeshiva in Brooklyn was faced with a challenge from the nearby Veretzky yeshiva, that is under the control of the Rabbonim and Balebatim who run the "Landaus minyan" in Flatbush. The Chaim Berlin people had thought they had "automatic rights" to a key adjacent corner property but were surprised to find that Veretzky had beaten them and had submitted a winning offer.

Of all the absurd scenarios of self-delusion, the Chaim Berlin people imagined they could commence with a din Torah against the Veretzky people. To the shock and consternation of all, the Veretzky people hired an expert to'en who basically formulated a halachic argument (see attached) based on the events of Chaim Berlin refusing to respond to Rav Carlebach's din torah and the various hazmonas (see above originals) that were issued.

The to'en for Veretzky's formulation al pi din Torah states quite clearly that the Chaim Berlin people are "lo tzayis dino" (see his attached three page argument). Not just that, but to make sure his case was heard, it was sent to several important batei din with all related documentation. Behind the scenes the Chaim Berliners were humiliated and frantic, supposedly even Rav Elyashiv ZT"L was consulted on the matter, and basically his response was that "people who do not go to a din Torah when they are summoned, cannot summon others to a din Torah" until such time that they settle all prior dinei Torah. And so the matter has rested with Veretzky getting its way teaching an important lesson that has evidently still not been learned, because now "new avenues" are found via fake "kol korehs" that are not worth the paper they are written on.

The moral of the story is that we are dealing with very dangerous people here. The ruthlessness and cynicism of the Dodelsons and their Kotler puppet masters is only exceeded by the cynicism and brutality of Rav Aron Schechter and the Chaim Berlin people who are too intimidated to stand up against his floundering ways (too many to count, such as his support for Schick, Hersh, Tropper-Guma-Kaplan, Kranczer etc that ALL blew up in his face).

It is time for American Torah Jewry to wake up and realize that they are being led down the garden path by terrible Pied Pipers who worship only one thing: BIG Money. Money talks! Forget about HKB"H, Rav Moshe Feinstein, the CRC, Halacha, all the old-time great Gedolim of America, but forge signatures of fake "kol korehs" and join the MOs and ORA and get into the NY Post, blast away at the family of Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT"L because you want to set up a "new world order" of money worshipping roshei yeshiva etc. is how the Schechter-Perlow-Feldman troika come across. And just as the moral and human failures Schick and Hersh and Tropper and Guma and Thomas Kaplan and Kleinman who all had/have plenty of money to back themselves up and "bribe" their way to top influence, the Dodelsons are loaded and using their wealth to wage an all-out war for a "get" by trying to destroy the Weisses-Feinsteins that is hurting all of Klal Yisroel.

Wake up everyone before you all fall victim to this modern-day Egel HaZahav Golden Calf as the new fake and false "god"!

92 comments :

  1. I've seen these documents before - so I wish to clarify - is Lo Tzayis Dina the same as apikorsuth, as is claimed by R' Calrebach?

    ReplyDelete
  2. why should you start now to speak loshon hara about Rabbi schechter. this is old. please do not let your concern for weiss just take you to this next step.
    please deal with solutions of raising money and dividing tehillim.
    you mean well but which rav is telling you to do this. you are complaining about the post article. takes a few minutes to reevaluate all the damge you are doing with many of your posts. i had a rebbe that once said in kanaus lsheim shamayim the worse middos come out. please stop fo an extra minute and think if all that you are putting under the title of daas torah is really daas torah.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting point - but you miss the relevancy and to'eles to the post. Perhaps you might remember about the Chofetz Chaim's psak concerning speaking lashon harah when you yourself are guilty of the crime you accuse the other?

      The Chazon Ish states that a gadol is like a plumber. Any information relevant to people relying on experts is considered to'eles.

      so yes I think about what I post as to whether it has to'eles

      Delete

    2. ספר חפץ חיים - הלכות אסורי לשון הרע - כלל י
      ג. וְכָל זֶה אִם הָרוֹאֶה טוֹב מִמֶּנּוּ, אֲבָל אִם הוּא (יג) חוֹטֵא כְּמוֹתוֹ, וְגַם הוּא חוֹלֶה בַּעֲבֵרוֹת הָאֵלֶּה כָּמוֹהוּ, הֲרֵי זֶה אָסוּר לְפַרְסְמוֹ. כִּי אִישׁ כָּזֶה, אֵין כַּוָּנָתוֹ בְּגַלּוֹתוֹ מִסְתָּרָיו לְטוֹבָה וּלְיִרְאָה, כִּי אִם לִשְׂמֹחַ לָאֵיד וּלְבַזּוֹתוֹ בָּזֶה. וּכְבָר נֶאֱמַר בְּעִנְיָן זֶה (הוֹשֵׁעַ א' ד'), "וּפָקַדְתִּי אֶת דְּמֵי יִזְרְעֶאל עַל בֵּית יֵהוּא", הִנֵּה כִּי אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁעָשָׂה יֵהוּא מִצְוָה בְּהַכְרִיתוֹ אֶת בֵּית אַחְאָב בְּיִזְרְעֶאל, כִּי נִצְטַוָּה כֵּן עַל יְדֵי נָבִיא, וְנִתְּנָה לוֹ עֲבוּר זֶה מְלוּכָה עַד אַרְבָּעָה דּוֹרוֹת, כְּמוֹ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (מְלָכִים ב', י' ל'), "יַעַן אֲשֶׁר כִּלְבָבִי עָשִׂיתָ לְבֵית אַחְאָב, בְּנֵי רְבָעִים יֵשְׁבוּ לְךָ עַל כִּסֵּא יִשְׂרָאֵל", בְּכָל זֹאת נִפְקַד עָלָיו לְבַסּוֹף דְּמֵי אַחְאָב, מִפְּנֵי כִּי גַּם הוּא הָיָה רַב פֶּשַׁע:

      Delete
    3. The chaim berlin case has still not been adjudicated to this very day.

      Delete
    4. Your picking on Rav Aron Schechter does not lend legitimacy to anyone leaving their wife an aguna. The get should not be abused and sadly (and with tremendous chillul Hashem) it is,

      Delete
    5. disturbed, i don't understand why using halacha to get what's halachicaly yours is abuse of halacha

      Delete
    6. Well, it is definitely a chilul hashem to use get withholding in order to spoil an ex-wife of the rights a civil courts awarded her.

      Over here, some hareidi women do not claim alimony and/or child support because their husbands threaten to withhold the get if they do.

      As a consequence, they are not eligible for social security, because they gave up money they were entitled do, so it is not the state's problem to pay for them.

      Of course, social workers speak about this phenomenon. What do you think will be their opinion about jewish law?

      Delete
    7. Incorrect. It is forbidden per Jewish Law to use a secular court altogether to decide who is awarded what in divorce or any type of case.

      Delete
  3. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but do we have a document that had R Moshe calling him a Sarvan or a Lo Tzayis? From your document all that you prove is that he was a nitvah & that the toveah says he never settled it.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Rav Ahron Schechter, as a Godol HaDor in his own right, has a right to disagree l'halacha with Rav Moshe Feinstein.

    And Rav Schechter had a legitimate halachic argument that he and the Yeshiva was not required to answer or appear before the Beis Din.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent point and you are correct. I assume you are aware that the Weiss's said the same thing and yet that was not respected by the signers of the Kol Koreh?

      Delete
    2. DT, no I wasn't aware. Do you care to please explain what the Weiss' argument is that you referring to?

      Thanks

      Delete
    3. Please state the "legitimate halachic argument" Weiss made to justify not going to Beis Din. He said he chose a borer for Zabla- his borer was incapacitated due to a stroke. The letter from Gestetner is full of untruths as well.

      Delete
    4. Asher pihem Diber ShavDecember 13, 2013 at 4:25 PM

      SZ,
      Without knowing what went on 35 years ago, I can tell you without a doubt, that comparing RAS with Rav Moshe zt"l is something that even a drunk Chaim Berliner on Purim should avoid. With all due respect, Rav Moshe was probably the biggest Gadol ever, to walk the ground of the USA. The only people in his league were perhaps R' Yoel and R Ahron perhaps a handful of others. Anyone who thinks that RAS is/was on the level to argue with Rav Moshe in psak Halacha is delusional, or just wrong. End of story. Have a nice day. See you. Asta lavista.

      Delete
    5. Weiss requested zabla. The BD even acknowledges it. The BD issued the siruv anyway because they demanded he pull out of court. Weiss answered that dodelson was now the plaintiff and they couldn't pull out. (This is besides the fact that a BD can't stipulate such). They refuse to explain how they can do that. The bast they do is say you must listen to the BD no matter what. Can't find that is shulchan oruch though.

      Delete
    6. APDS:

      1) I am not comparing Rav Ahron with Rav Moshe.

      2) I agree with you that only Rav Ahron Kotler and the Satmar Rebbe were in the same league as Rav Moshe Feinstein.

      3) Even someone not as great as someone else IS allowed to argue with him on halacha. So Rav Ahron certainly has the right to disagree with Rav Moshe even though he isn't as great as Rav Moshe.

      Delete
  5. And in the case of Reb Shlomo Carlebach, he never went to court. That's why he is very much respected. Imagine if he went to court and lost and then sued Chaim Berlin for expenses, now think about this case.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Does anyone know the details of the two times that Rav Moshe called Rav Ahron Kotler to din torah and Rav Ahron came immediately? Curious as to the story...

    ReplyDelete
  7. Sam,

    Yeah, imagine if he went to 10 Rosh Yeshivas to sign a Kol Koreh and when that didn't work , he opened up a website and facebook page and went to the NY Post and sent out mass letters and started a campaign to shutdown Yeshivas Chaim Berlin ?

    ReplyDelete
  8. I dont know how you can post something like this without posting anything else. We know nothing about the case, Chaim Berlin's response, Chaim Berlin's reasoning, etc.

    We do know Weiss's position and do not find it persuasive.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Weiss's position is very persuasive.

      Delete
    2. if you call the weiss position not persuasive you obviously don't know the weiss' position

      Delete
    3. the weisses are not interested in making their position a public debate like the dodelsons did but those who know the weisses find their position extremely persuasive and those are the people who know the weiss position therefore all others should not be commenting on it

      Delete
  9. Ok with all due respect to all those posting, this mess has gone far enough. It is not up to us to pass judgement on what any Gedolim meant whether pro Gital or pro AM. Clearly, we are in need of an impartial Rav or an impartial Beis Din who are removed enough from the Rabbanim already involved. How about Rabbi Dovid Goldwasser, Rabbi Yisroel Belsky, and Rabbi Avraham J Twerski? What can we as a public do to Make this happen? Do we convince the Weisses and Dodelsons or do we convince the Rabbanim? Interested in your thoughts.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hasn't Rav Belsky already taken a public position on the Dodelson case?

      In any event, Rav Belsky in general takes a strongly pro-wife/pro-divorce position.

      Delete
    2. the dodelsons would never agree to r' belsky because they know he seeks the truth and will find them as the guilty party

      Delete
    3. an upside down worldDecember 16, 2013 at 4:26 PM

      Rav Belsky seeks the truth?!!! like in the Kolko case where he insists the young victims father, a hugely respected talmid chachom, molested his own child without an iota of evidence --- even though Kolko admitted he is guilty in court to the bais din andto the socia worker? if that is called "seeking truth"' then what is the pursuit of sheker?

      Delete
  10. Excuse my ignorance, but what can be the halachic justification for not answering or appearing before R' Moshe's hazmana?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is a halacha in Shulchan Aruch that says a Yeshiva or another Talmid Chochom need not respond to a Beis Din.

      Even if you don't take that halachic position, or disagree with it, Rav Shechter and the Yeshiva have the right to take it.

      Delete
    2. because of his kavod, he can send a rep called a Yipui Koach, but MUST RESPOND!

      Delete
  11. Check this out:

    http://www.rabbileff.net/shiurim/ask/index.htm

    Question No. 1826
    Category Halacha (General Jewish Law)
    Date Posted 23 Dec 2010
    The Question How can R' Aron Schechter be on the Moetzes Gedolai HaTorah if he refused a summons by the beis din of the Agudath Harabonim and the CRC? (See Comments/Suggestion section for documents) —Anonymous, NY

    http://www.rabbileff.net/shiurim/answers/1750-1999/1826.mp3

    ReplyDelete
  12. Shlomo Zalman to claim that next to rwb moshe RAS is a godol and therefor does not need to go to bais din is ridiculous. Where are his seforim and erudition. Sorry this is a cop out and an arrogance beyond belief. Look how he conducted himself with that bootcamp? He has had many years to do teshuva and hasn't. Reb moshe was makpid till the end - see veretsky building that chaim berlin could not use vais din and are still considered lo tzias dina. I have seen in shulchan oruch the right not to go to bais din if you are on the same level as the dayonim and this doesnt apply. RAS cannot be compared to someone like reb moshe.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Veretzky claimed that they don't have to go to Beis Din. Even if Chaim Berlin disagreed there was nothing they could do about that.

      There is a halacha in Shulchan Aruch that says a Yeshiva or another Talmid Chochom need not respond to a Beis Din. Even if you don't take that halachic position, or disagree with it, Rav Shechter and the Yeshiva have the right to take it.

      Delete
  13. DT, It's rather peculiar that RaP selectively chose to send you only half of the documentation.. Is there a reason why he left out the response to R. Carlebach which made whatever issues he alleged in his letters totally moot??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yitz: I'd love to know what the response to R. Carlebach was. Can you post a summary or link to it? Yasher Koach

      Delete
  14. It's sad to see what's going on on this blog. I, like so many other people, have had a lot of Toeles from R. Eidensohn's seforim. It's hard to see him now ignore so many gemaras who talk about how bad and frightening it is to denigrate Talmidei Chachomim. He must be very sure of himself to take such risk. Pretty scary to think of the consequences if he turns out to be wrong...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree it is sad and I am well aware of the problem of denigrating talmidei chachomim. I don't enjoy publishing these revelations whether it is about Tropper, Hersh, child abuse, get me'usa, Kolko and the Lakewood rabbis, etc etc. If you have another way of handling these problems - that works - please let me know. There is more to being a responsible Jew than admiring your frumkeit because you live in an Artscroll world.

      The Baal Shem Tov mentions that when the wagon gets stuck in the mud - sometimes you have to get into the mud to get it moving again.

      Delete
  15. Is it possible that the Kol Koreh of these rabbis is not a halachic one, but a private one, since they have connections to one side of the dispute?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They request a very significant amount of action, way beyond any halachic authority can possibly poskin.

      If it has nothing to do with Halachah, it should have been made clear by the Rabbonim!

      Rather confusing!

      Delete
    2. the blame is not on what it says in the letter because they never signed it the problem is that they never came out publicly denying it even though if you call them some will say they never signed others will say they only signed part (the less radical part) and some will say it was a personal letter to r' reuven and was never intended as a kol koreh

      Delete
    3. Please let me know which ones said that so that I can personally verify that> Thanks

      Delete
    4. r' shmuel said it can be publicized that he never signed that artscroll should fire the weiss brothers rabbi heineman said he never signed on anything to do with artscroll r' elya ber told r' reuven that they came to him with a letter that had one line on it and was addressed to r' reuven and then afterwards they took it and added a lot more and made it into a kol koreh r' nota said he never signed the kol koreh he only signed the earlier letter that was a private letter and had nothing to do with the kol koreh

      Delete
    5. if what u say is true, then then they have an obligation to write a kol korai saying the first kol korai was a fake. if they don't then they are certifying the first kol korai

      Delete
    6. an upside down worldDecember 16, 2013 at 4:33 PM

      If what you are saying is true, the Dodlesons are utter complete frauds and of astoindingly vile character and they should be sued in bais din for character defamation (motzei shem ra).

      Delete
    7. toras emes; i agree with you but maybe they were afraid of getting the treatment that anyone who doesn't do what the dodelsons want got

      an upside down world; agreed but maybe the weisses are afraid it will hinder the negotiations and they just want to get this all over with

      Delete
  16. I don't know what system these posters are using to rate gedolim, but I would like to add to the list my high school rebbe, Rav Shlomo Wahrman ZL, who knew Kol Hatorah Kula, as can be seen from his sefarim Shearis Yosef, and Oros Hashabbos, etc. A true nistar, one of the most geonishe kups ever, huge baal midos, apolitical, and talmid muvhak of Reb Leizer Silver. Rav Silver said on him Hineh mitaso shelishlomo shishim giborim saviv lah. He knew all 60 masechtos on the back of his hand.

    ReplyDelete
  17. And this is what pAsses for dAss Toyreh today - Rabbi Shechter...as they say gantz america hut moyreh fun der roshei yeshiva...Salle roshei yeshiva huben moyreh fun Reb Ahron Shechter...Reb Arron Shechter hut moyreh fun Fruchthandler..Fruchthandler hut moyreh fun zayn vayb...zayn vayb hut moyreh fun a Katz...is gantz america hut moyreh fun a kotz

    Yankel fun Mikkeys kaveh shteeb

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hey diraba diraba..........December 16, 2013 at 8:05 PM

      Dezabin abo bitrei zuzei chad gadyo, chad gadyo

      Delete
  18. R. Eidensohn, it appears (at this moment) that you've blocked my last comment here attacking rabbinic corruption and feminism.

    Do you realize that if you continue blocking anti-ORA commenters, then your pro-family commenters may abandon your blog, causing your blog to become a haven for ORA commenters?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Emes leYaakov - you can't get it through your head that the purpose of this blog is not to ridicule one's opponents - even when they are wrong. It is it educate each other in what is correct. You don't understand that your ridicule is not convincing anyone that Torah or halacha is true - but simply provides an excuse not to pay attention to your many astute and cogent observations.

      I disagree with your dire prediction. Most of the pro-family commenters will continue posting here for the simple reason they have an opportunity to educate others and come to a deeper understanding of the issues.

      I have no problem if ORA commenter feel comfortable expressing their views here - because it means they will be hearing the other side. Your desire to bash them at every turn will only result in your having an audience and influence on one person - yourself.

      Delete
    2. But Emet leyakov does a very good job at ridiculing the Weiss's and the anti-ora position.

      I cannot imagine he really holds these positions. He is obviously a pro-feminist troll.

      Delete
    3. an upside down worldDecember 16, 2013 at 4:38 PM

      I find emes leyaakov to be particularly persuasive honest and truthful in his presentation and his positions

      Delete
  19. There is a major typo in the title of this post. It says:
    "Weiss Dodelson: Double Standards of the Kol Koreh signers"

    It should read:
    "Weiss Dodelson: Double Standards of a Kol Koreh signer"

    It seems "RaP" has such animosity that he can't even pretend to be objective in the hope of winning people to his side. Overstating your case is the easiest way to lose credibility. I'm Sad to see both sides regularly make that mistake. To me this is a sure indication of a Machlokes that is Lo L'Shaim Shomayim.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "It is well known that Rav Aron Schechter is the "first among equals" on the current American Aguda's Moetzes"

    That is not true. It is not "well known" because it is not true. RSK and the Novominsker are the leaders of the pack.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RAS, RSK and the Novminsker are the three top leaders.

      Delete
    2. and even r' shmuel put out a letter it must stop so why are they continuing

      Delete
    3. Shimi,
      This post has nothing to do with the Dodelsons. Save that comment for every other post. We are discussing RAS and his alleged hypocrisy.

      Delete
    4. Rabbi E said in the Tzitz Eliezer post that RSK still backs the Dodelsons, right?

      Delete
    5. james, i understand you had no answer to what i said but even your comment was discussing the signers of the dodelson kol koreh

      Delete
    6. Shimi,
      I have plenty of answers. I answered on the other posts that were relevant to that topic.

      Delete
  21. I guess when it's a prestigious family involved, suddenly we scrutinize abusive kol koreh's. But when it's an average Shmo Jew that no one cares about, a signature means you are against the gedolim and must bow down immediately. What a world.

    ReplyDelete
  22. to: Rabbi Eidensohn

    Posting such information about talmidei chachomim, either way, will only result in bizayon ha'Torah, whether true or untrue, or whichever side of the coin one is on.

    I'm sure that you, as a talmid chochom, will realize this, and be modeh al ha'emes, and refrain from posting this information.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Observer I appreciate your reminder of something which I am painfully and constantly aware.

      Avoiding pointing this information will result in bizayon haTorah and pointing it out will result in bizayon haTorah. There is a mitzva of tochacho and it extends to more than your 5 year old child.

      At the present time I don't see a legitimate alternative as a frum Jew. Sticking my head in the sand is not halachically correct.

      Delete
    2. This answer feels like you're just trying to convince yourself. You really consider this blog post doing the mitzvah of tochacha? Do you really think R. Shechter is going to see this blog post? And even if he would, who says the mitzvah of tochacha outweighs bizayon hatorah? The gemara if very clear that being mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim carries a very, very stiff penalty. It does not say so about refraining from tochacha.

      Delete
    3. Also, as a frum Jew, maybe you should ask a Gadol what to do in such a very delicate situation? Maybe "Shev Ve'al Taaseh Adif" is the halachically correct thing to do?

      Delete
    4. phil, maybe lo saamod al dam reyecha

      Delete
    5. Phil, regarding asking a Gadol, don't forget how Daas Torah describes himself: "In recent years I have received guidance from Rav Moshe Sternbuch of the Eidah Charedis."

      From what I've seen here on this blog, he ain't just woofin'.

      Delete
  23. It so saddens me that the Gadol Hador Rav Moshe Feinstein is not in our midst for he, the great redeemer of agunos, would never have left his ex-great-grand-daughter in such a position. How great is our loss.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Gadol Hador Rav Moshe would not let an immature vindictive wife take her husband to the cleaners, demand a Get upon her own terms, and refuse to follow her own obligations.

      Delete
    2. I think you are disturbed. Very disturbed. I do love how all these mo people all know the gedolim and how they would do things. Makes you feel sorry for The Rav.

      Delete
    3. if r' moshe would be alive this chilul hashem would never have happened because no one would dare back her and she would be left settling the way she should according to halacha and it would have long been over

      Delete
  24. Weiss is concerned that his rights to visitation and custody would be trampled on by his ex once he gives her a get. The community at large should begin a fund to help him fight her in court if she resorts to such dirty behavior. He must give a get and she must act (especially for the sake of her child) as a mentch.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So what do you see as his purpose, never giving a get so that she doesn't trample on him in court? whats the endgame? if he will withold the get much longer she will be meyaesh and begin trampling on what he won- and she will be able to use his get refusal as a tool to win sole custody.

      Delete
    2. yuchis- that she may.

      Delete
    3. having to fight in court is not fun even if it's all paid for and he doesn't want to sign his life off to that but if you want to give him money you can mail it to him his address in easily available online

      Delete
  25. Please explain why a fund should only be aet up for weiss? It should be set up community wide to stop the outrageous anti halachik behavior of many purported frum women. There should be a decree that a woman who goes to arko"oys may not receive a get. This is simply what thw halicho states.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dodelson DIDNT go to court. That was Weiss. She went to BD.

      Delete
    2. james; This post has nothing to do with the Dodelsons. Save that comment for every other post. We are discussing RAS and his alleged hypocrisy.

      Delete
  26. The Seal of G-d is TruthDecember 16, 2013 at 12:47 AM

    To point out sheker and corruption is not a bizayon to Torah. it is defending the Torah. It is also not a bizayon to corrupt leaders becasue if a talmid chachom is corrupt he should not be leading anyone. see Rav Slikins rationlist Judasim blog where he discusses the gemara in Yoma that describes the damage talmedi chachamim whithout good character due to the world to the Torah and to the Jewish people.

    THE SEAL OF G-d is truth. By revealing the truth we damage nothing except corruption and sheker. By exposing sheker, we are mekadesh shem shamayim.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Protecting a father - son relationshipDecember 16, 2013 at 1:01 AM

    YUCHIS - Your statement is uninformed and absurd. Refusal to give a get will never be a reason for a secular court to uproot custody or visitation. The best interest of the child is the deciding factor and get issues have nothing to do with the best interest of the child - though Gital seems to thinl that her son needs a stepfather more than he needs a father!

    Besides the fact that in NJ law, get issues are completely beyond the purview of the court.

    As for what AM Weiss feels he needs to protect his connection to his son from the vindictive assault of the Doodlesons - that is for him and his legal advisors to decide. A consent decree and money in escrow to protect the custody/visitation arrangement have been mentioned inthis blog as possible avanues for protecting the fathers telatio ship with his son even after the get.
    And it is critical to remeber that AM Weias was willimg to subject himself to the Decision of Rabbi Greenwald but Gital decided the NY Post would be a fairer forum to vent and resolve her issues.

    ReplyDelete
  28. the answer to rabbi leff, the brooklyn bridge isn't and never was for sale:

    http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2007/12/torah-never-forgets.html

    and for the chaim berliners see this:

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/01/refusal-of-talmid-chachom-to-go-to-beis.html

    I still think it is clear he has to give testimony even if he physically doesn't have to appear provided he is as great as the bais din...

    ReplyDelete
  29. This post is a screed and a rant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Absolutely!
      The one ranting should stop talking stupidity as he is embarrassing a talmid chocham by writing these stupidities, and he certainly considers himself a talmid chacham. He should be a big boy, stop in his tracks and admit the truth.

      Delete
  30. Could someone please explain what the sichsuch was all about - why did the Chaim Berlin powers that be want to get rid of RSC? Why couldn't it just be RAS as R"Y and RSC as Mashgiach Ruchani? What was the problem here?

    Also, does anyone know the details of when rav Moshe called Rav Aharon Kotler to din torah?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Nothing but the truthDecember 16, 2013 at 5:49 PM

    Not 100% sure, but didn't BMG also refuse to to go to Din Torah when they were summoned by R' B.M. in the Lakewood Cheder fiasco?

    ReplyDelete
  32. When the "G" family of Lakewood summoned R' Solomon the Mashgeiach of Lakewood to Din Torah because they felt they were unjustly wronged - BMG put up posters all over the place, signed by all their forces and R' SK, that its a Chutzpah, and how dare someone bring their Mashgeiach to Bais Din.

    Of course he did not go.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Lakewood Double StandardDecember 17, 2013 at 2:25 AM

    How can Reb Malkiel write a letter to Rav Reuven Feinstein to eject his Grandson, AMW from his Yeshiva in Staten Island ??

    when BMG allows Yackov Gershon Bursztyn to work for BMG as its Registerer even though Yackov Gershon supports and encourages his son Moshe Yehuda Bursztyn in being a Mesariv Ledin at both Bais Din Bais Yosef and Mechon Lehorah

    ReplyDelete
  34. You would be better off closing down your "Daas Torah" website completely. With all the chilul Hashem and bizayon hatorah that you are causing, you are playing with fire. For your own sake, please stop בעוד מועד!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. An Upside Down WorldDecember 17, 2013 at 11:18 AM

      No - the Daas Toraj website is critical for defending true Torah for the Korachs of our generation - corrupt individuals and rabbinic leaders that want to turm the Torah on its head, racmana lezlan. IN MANY WAYS THEY ARE MORE TOXIC THAN REFORM OR CONSERVATIVE JUDAISM AS THEY ARE TRYING TO PERVERT THE TORAH FROM WITHIN ORTHODOXY

      Delete

ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE POSTED!
please use either your real name or a pseudonym.