Wednesday, December 11, 2013

Weiss Dodelson: Gital supporter criticizes Gital's wholesale lynch of the Weiss/Feinstein families

Vos iz neias [...]   I sympathize with Dodelson – and here I completely accept her version of the truth. Every agunah situation is a tragedy, more so when children are involved (the couple has a son). Dodelson’s supporters have organized a Web site, setgitalfree.com, and an associated Facebook page.

But their methods reflect poorly on the entire urgent movement to help agunot. Instead of the traditional focus on the recalcitrant husband, this bandwagon mostly targets Weiss’s relatives.
First, Internet warriors boycotted Orthodox publisher ArtScroll until it fired Weiss’s father and uncle. A Facebook commenter claimed victory, saying ArtScroll “heard us loud and clear, and they did exactly what we asked.”

Next, agunah activists turned against Yeshiva of Staten Island (YSI), where Weiss learns and which is run by his grandfather, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein. They demanded that the Rabbinical Council of America (RCA) remove YSI’s accreditation and reject rabbis ordained by the yeshiva’s sister school. They also convinced at least one synagogue to cancel an appearance by Rabbi Feinstein.

“Set Gital Free” even bullied Weiss’s elderly grandmother by publishing her telephone number and urging people to “politely and respectfully” inundate her with calls until a Get is granted.
The pro-Dodelson site calls these family members “enablers” who “support” Weiss’s actions. But the relatives are pretty much chained themselves – caught in the no-win position of wishing to succor a humiliated loved one while wanting an ugly divorce resolved. Besides, who knows what they’ve said to Weiss privately?

Those who punish relatives of Get refusers remind me of opponents of Israel’s policies on the West Bank who randomly say “I know – let’s boycott Israeli universities and scholars!” Only this improvisation is worse.

No act, however spiteful, justifies a posse deciding to assault the livelihoods and reputations of relatives and colleagues. It doesn’t seem very Jewish to me: Did a horde attack Jacob because of Esau’s misdeeds, or Jonathan because of Saul’s?

So I contacted RCA Executive Vice President Rabbi Mark Dratch, the rabbi “Set Gital Free” recommended to explain the Torah basis for their strategy. To my surprise, he said absolutely nothing in halachic literature endorses communal pressure on family members of Get refusers, and he never prescribed that approach. Thus, the activists are disregarding the counsel of the man they claim is their rabbi. Orthodox Jews just don’t do that.

I later consulted Rabbi Jeremy Stern from the Organization for the Resolution of Agunot (ORA), who also could think of no text in a Jewish source describing anything like the “Free Gital” tactics – and he would know. ORA’s extensive Web site promotes many ways to pressure husbands but none to pressure relatives.

Rabbi Stern referenced the impressive “Kol Koreh” (proclamation) signed by ten leading American rabbis, including five from the renowned Council of Torah Sages and ORA’s halachic expert, Yeshiva University Rosh Yeshiva Rabbi Herschel Schachter.

The Kol Koreh imposes more than a dozen harsh penalties on Weiss, but only one regarding his family: that ArtScroll must terminate the father and uncle. That directive clearly relates to the laws of a Jewish court (beit din), not those of agunot, since any man who flouts a beit din’s rulings risks retribution. But the rabbis didn’t call for a boycott. (The Facebook site’s supposed triumph over ArtScroll is absurd – as if it had more sway than our generation’s most respected rabbis.) The proclamation also says nothing about canceled speeches, disaccreditations, rejected ordinations, or harassment of old ladies.[...]

15 comments :

  1. Why should Avrohm Weiss Give Gitel Dodulsona Get ?

    If the day after he gives her a get she will go to the Ocean County Family Court and takeout restraining orders against AMW which is very easy for any women to obtain especially if you are an orthodox Jewish Women Whom the Ocean County Familly Courts see as "Oppressed" with her mother Saki and their millions of Dollars and their Politicaly connected Cousins the Kotlers who elect all the Politicians into office (including the newly elected Sheriff Micheal Mastronard) with their Endorsements and block votes and take away Custody and visitation rights from Avrohom Meir Weiss and Have him Arrested as has happened to Many Jewish Men in Lakewood over the past few years with the full support of BMG

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    1. The reason to give the get because it's the right thing to do. I know this is way above for many to realize, but he can't get married, can't have a family, can't be happy or have peace of mind until he does.

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    2. He can get a Heter Meah, deposit a Get with a beis din that will hold it until Gital corrects her wrongings against AMW, while AMW can remarry right away.

      The shidduch world is a man's market.

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  2. The wrong that was done was that a get is not being given. Why dwell on the results?? If u r honest u will understand " what came first? The chicken or the egg"

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    1. WITHOLDING, The chicken or the egg ?December 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM

      @ Eli s of December 11, 2013 at 8:50 PM,
      Here is an egg in your face. When Gital was being a MOREDES, did it also pain you why she is WITHOLDING AMW's LIFE along with the LIFE of a child. Why would Gital's Get be more urgent then the LIFE of the FATHER and the LIFE of the CHILD? Time is of the ESSENCE, is so much more urgent when you can slavage the LIFE of a marriage, then destruction of it. So who did in to WHOM, HUH? AMW also waited patiently with great shivrei lev for her to be in line and be compliant to Das Moshe veYisrael and Das Yehudis. Where was ORA then? Had they stopped Gital and her ilk in their tracks before things snowball out of control, and urged her to comply, that would yet be the best solution for these so called AGUNA CRISIS ever, a win win win situation for all parties involved as well as KLALL YISRAEL. I firmly believe that it is her AKSHANUT along with GAAVA, drunk with the cup of DIDAN NOTZACH, that got in the way, and brought on this present plight. I can also vouch, that AMW is not witholding anything for the sake of 'paining' her. If she wants the Get badly enough, she can have it yesterday. Since Gital destroyed and wrecked everything that could be wrecked, it is Gital's responsibility to do good on it. Short of that, she is a criminal. WHo knows, for all Gital cares, she might just enjoy every bit of it to the last drop, a famous or infamous wannabe Attorney. After all that, she now is in a NEKAMA mode, and omedet beMORDOH against psak of R' Kaminetsky to CEASE AND DESIST. People say. 'Kayn gelt - Kayn chassunah' same applies here, 'Kayn gelt (reparation) - Kayn Get', Talmudically = "makish yetziah le'biah". If NOT living in compliance of a normal LIFE wasn't WITHOLDING, neither finalizing a Get before owing up to responsibilities, is called WITHOLDING. It is in SHULCHAN ARUCH's protocol. GET KRISUS is the FINAL ending, after all business has been taken care of before cutting any left loose strings attached. @ Eli, so much for the chicken, where is the BEEF??

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  3. Exactly Eli. It's time for ppl to realize that chillul Hashem is AMW actions. Had he given a get this all would be avoided.

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    Replies
    1. Whats the chillul hashem done by AM? Is he obligated to give a Get? What did he do wrong? Is caring about his connection to his child a crime?

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  4. Where to even start with analyzing this post?

    "absolutely nothing in halachic literature endorses communal pressure on family members of Get refusers"

    So even if we say, wrongly, that there is "Get refusal" here, what was the justification for the statement "that ArtScroll must terminate the father and uncle"?

    "ORA’s extensive Web site promotes many ways to pressure husbands but none to pressure relatives."

    ORA has publicized the name, and if I'm not mistaken, the picture and contact information of at least one relative of a husband and urged communal pressure; ORA has organized protests against at least one relative of a husband, also. It may not be on its website, but you also won't find on the website a list of names of men ORA claims gave a Get after pressure from ORA.

    Such a list would be valuable to research: it would become possible to determine if ORA took credit for a Get being given after a husband received his all-expensives-paid trip in the van, with cattle prods and plastic bags a mere courtesy detail.

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  5. Ora itself has repeatedly harassed and led demonstrations (including the use of violence) against the relatives of those Ora claims are wrongfully not giving a get (which, according to Ora, is anytime a woman demands one).

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  6. Do a Google search on" how easy it is for a woman to obtain a restraining order in the state of New Jersey" it is shocking, you will find a whole lot of articles and news clips how even judges admit how out of control the Family Courts in New Jersey are how Woman abuse the System to take Revenge on their Husbands by getting them locked up taking away his rights and possesions and visitation rights

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  7. @ Parent- ORA does not use violence, that was someone else. Also ORA works very hard with the Batei Din,not against it. And lastly YES when a woman feels trapped and demands a get, she deserves to be freed. What "parent" would want their daughter to be chained to a person she has no future with?

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  8. Ora's demonstrations have included violence. Did Jeremy stern himself order the violence? Who knows. But Jeremy stern has circulated a letter calling for one husband to be beaten. Also, given Ora's extreme rhetoric it is inevitable that there would be violence at Ora demonstrations.

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  9. someone else - tole kilelato beAcheirimDecember 12, 2013 at 1:06 AM

    @ DanielDecember 11, 2013 at 11:37 PM

    Removing ones Bread from ones mouth and the family is gross violence, it is taking away the livelihood and lifeblood of a PERSON. LO BECHINAM the Talmud calls it YORED LECHAYOV!!! I do not pity those responsible along with their cohorts. More so, from one that is GODOL BEYISRAEL asher Toirosoi Umnosoi, a double hitter. Same applies to AMW, vehevei zohir begachlatan shelo tikave!

    ORA: Stop working so hard, there will be so much less RA & evil in this world.

    They ARE the Batei Din, JUDGE, JURY, & EXECUTIONER, TOEN TAANAS GANAV RA BANI EPSTEIN CROWBAR SHEISTER BARRISTER , ESCOBAR PRODBAR WOLMARK et al LLC @ mamzer.factory.slashYU/slashingHusbands.edu

    And lastly, a woman is an AGUNA only when trapped through no fault of her own and husband is withholding merely out of spite. Not so, when the Husband is entitled to reparations and custodial rights.

    Never mind about the future, first take care of the PRESENT as a responsible Parent, teach them NOT to be a MOREDES. That is the ROOT & MOTHER OF ALL MOTHERS of all the problems = Em KOL CHATOSS.

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  10. if you live in a glass house, don't throw stonesDecember 12, 2013 at 2:12 AM

    What makes saki think that this venture cannot boomerang. Suppose some activists will promote boycotting her enterprise all over the place. Ayin tachas ayin shen tachas shen, the extent of the loss could result in the millions. Lehevei yadua bechol tfutzot Yisrael, you live by the sword, you die by the sword, and what goes around comes around, veze sof kol hadam.

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  11. Check out Rabbi Yehuda Shains Blog "Yudels rest of the story" in Lakewood NJ, Where he exposes all of Lakewoods Corruption at "Yudelstake.blogspot.com"

    ReplyDelete

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