Monday, December 16, 2013

American Roshei Yeshivos opposed to division of Hadera

Kikar Hashabat  The division of the Chadera Yeshiva has aroused the opposition of major American talmidei chachomim.

מכתב עליו חתומים שמותיהם של ראשי ישיבות בארה"ב, מבטיח כי המסייע לפילוגה של ישיבת 'חדרה' "לא ייצא נקי". עוד נכתב: "פשוט שזה עוון חמור מאוד לסייע להרוס הישיבה"

הפילוג בישיבת 'חדרה' הליטאית: מכתב שמופץ בימים האחרונים, מבטיח כי המסייעים לפילוג הישיבה הוותיקה - לא ייצאו בצורה נקייה מהסיפור. על המכתב החריג, חתומים שמותיהם של מספר ראשי ישיבות מארצות הברית, כשניסוחו של המכתב מיוחס לרב ישראל יצחק קאלמנווויץ. 
את הדיווחים על פילוג הישיבה, מגדירים ראשים הישיבות במכתבם כ"שמועה לא טובה", וכ"מהומה הנעשית בתוך כותלי בית המדרש". מנסח המכתב כותב כי "מתוך שאנו ידידים טובים זה רבות בשנים, הרהבתי עוז לכתוב לכם מחשבת הדיוט כמוני". 
"והנה פשוט שזה עוון חמור מאוד להיות מסייע להרוס או להחליש בית המדרש וישיבה קדושה ובפרט ישיבה זו שהיא חשובה מאוד כידוע" נכתב בהמשך המכתב.

32 comments :

  1. Good for them! The letter should have been even stronger. And it's too bad the others were afraid to sign their names. But at least its a start.

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  2. This is a very positive news these days.

    I my opinion this and other acts by American Roshei Yeshivos actually made a difference because those who try to destroy the yeshiva would only act if they have nothing to lose. Of course this kind of letters make them think again.

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  3. Who is missing from this letter is more important. The bigger more well known Roshei Yeshivos are almost missing from this letter.

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    1. unfortunately, it seems that these were the ones who were afraid to sign.

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  4. They were not afrad... They support sar hatah maran rav chaim kinevsky and the rosh yeshiva rav a.l. Steinman shlita.

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    1. I don't think you saw the actual letter. At the top there is a box with something inside it that says that the letter was seen by the gedolei rosh yeshiva who endorse it but will not sign their names for understood reasons. So unless you believe R' Zundel Kroizer, R. Kalmanovitch, R. Wachtfogel, et. al. to be liars, this means that there were numerous other big names who endorse but did not sign. Sorry, but they do not support the perpetrators of the dissolution of the Hadera Yeshiva.

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  5. For those of us not following the story because we have no Idea what is going on can we have the Background Information or an Introduction?

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    1. Without going into too much detail, the American Roshei Yeshiva are protesting the Taliban-like stifling of any opposition to a certain political party in Israel. The specific straw that broke the camel's back was the partially successful campaign to shut down the famous Chadera yeshiva simply because its Rosh Yeshiva (or Mashgiach--I'm not sure which one it was) told talmidim that they could vote for the party of their choosing. The parents of the talmidim in that yeshiva were told to remove their children from the yeshiva. There were also many instances of parents being threatened that if they did not vote for the party, then their children would be expelled from cheder and yungerleit being told that if they did not vote for the party then they should leave the kollel. The "ruling party" is backed by a lot of American money and there were therefore a number of people who did not have the guts to sign the protest. Did I leave out anything?

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  6. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 18, 2013 at 11:05 PM

    This may be the first time that I've ever seen HG"R Elya Chaim's name signed on to anything. Wow.

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  7. Do Gedolim in Israel listen to American Gedolim anymore?

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    1. The point is not whether or not they will listen. The point is that when an injustice is committed, you have to protest.

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  8. Recipients and PublicityDecember 19, 2013 at 6:57 AM

    First of, if what poster nat @December 18, 2013 at 2:53 PM is basically true, then it is the two key leaders of Degel HaTorah (Rav Aron Leib Shteinman and Rav Chaim Kanievsky) who yet again asserting themselves, which makes sense. They are fully in their rights to declare their Daas Torah in such difficult times when there is a life and death struggle between the Chilonim (AKA Yesh Atid and all their allies, the Lapid-Bennet-Netanyahu axis) who are fighting a "last stand" battle against the Charedim. Rav Chaim Kanievsky already openly declared thatRav Chaim Kanievsky: Rav Shteiman Is The Manhig HaDor" (Tuesday, June 12th, 2012) On the Charedi side, Rav Shteinman and Rav Chaim Kanievsky are the leaders, but they have an opponent in the form of Rav Shmuel Auerbach who opposes them and is taking a tougher stand on the same issues against the Chilonim. That is his right but he is fighting to be the paramount leader but Degel HaTorah swears allegiance to Rav Shteinman and Rav Kanievsky.

    It seems that in Israel their was a question about this yeshiva's leadership that was interpreted as at being "neutral" but de facto amounting to an endorsement of Rav Shmuel Auerbach and so thereby they cannot complain that they brought this onto themselves, that now bochurim are being advised to leave that yeshivas after EVERYONE was ordered to vote or support Degel HaTorah (that's the way it works in Israel -- you must choose sides or you are mowed down in the crossfires). There is no choice now in Israel especially under present circumstances and Rav Shteinman is projecting his authority, take it or leave it.

    For anyone else to get involved is basically a big chutzpa, especially roshei yeshiva in America such as RAS who themselves are presently signing on to fake "kol korehs" and media campaigns to malign, cut down to size and in effect shut down the MTJ yeshivas founded by Rav Moshe Fienstein ZT"L. RAS cannot have it both ways, to "save" yeshivas in Israel that are defying the DaasTorah of the Gadol HaDor Rav Aron Leib Shteinman, while at the same time supporting attacks against the yeshivas of the most famous Gadol HaDor of America RMF, Z"L. Makes you wonder what is going on in RAS's mind, if it is truly sound, why does he go further and further into murky troubled waters where his signatures only worsens the damage and adds fuel to flames?

    The role of Rabbi Yisroel Yitzchok Kalmanowitz also needs to be understood. Who is he altogther?? and why is he able to to cause such a ruckus and get American roshei yeshiva involved?

    In Israel, it seems that Rav Shteinman and Rav Knaievsky maintain that it is a matzav of pikuach nefesh mamash and they expect that rebbeim and yeshivas under their banner of Degel HaTorah (in Israel one must always be under a banner) must also follow their policies. They are saying that yeshiva bochurim muts report for at least the initial call up from the Israeli army but not sign anything, while Rav Aurebach is taking a tougher stand, to ignore the army and if need be go to jail, which is to be commended, but it puts the bochurim in a bind as to who to follow, hence this is part of the problem.


    If anyone wants to be "neutral" or follow Rav Shmeul Aurebach, then gezunterheit, but then let them do so fully and openly and find their own financial and political support with Rav Shmuel Auerbach. There is nothing wrong with what Rav Shmuel Aurebacj says, he is entitled to his point of view, but he is not the accepted leader of everyone in the Israeli yeshiva velt.

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    1. Would you mind stating a precedent in history where a "manhig hador" tried to destroy the yeshiva of someone who disagreed with him? Did Rav Shach zatzal to shut down any Sephardic yeshivos after Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal broke political ranks with him, when he could have even claimed that he was the one behind the founding of Shas in the first place? And who invented this concept of manhig hador anyway? Did the entire yeshiva olam accept every politically related decision of Rav Shach or the Chazon Ish as Torah Misinai? Did all the Gedolim hold of voting in the knesset? Did the Brisker Rov, Zatzal? And I am not even getting into the Satmars. And let me ask you this question? Even if the above gedolim were accepted by most as the manhigei hador, did someone have to get up in public and proclaim Rav Shach or the Chazon Ish as the manhig hador? Because if they did, I missed that one. And, by the way, Rav Shach's opinion was in diametric opposition to this "declaration." So please back up your point with some actual logical proofs instead of "They are fully in their rights to declare their Daas Torah in such difficult times" etc. I think that people have to wake up and come to the realization that especially in this dor yasom there is no clear manhig hador and certainly no one has the right to proclaim himself as such. People have to stop believing everything (anything?) they read in the Yated and actually use their G-d given brains for once.

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    2. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 19, 2013 at 9:23 PM

      Well said.

      As far as Rav Shach's opinion, I have heard/read that he would tell people for years before he died that when he's no longer there to go to ask in Yerushalayim. Is this true? If so, why is it ignored?

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    3. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 19, 2013 at 9:24 PM

      In other words, Yerushalayim, leafukei...

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    4. Yes, Superintendant. I don't know about the Yerushalayim part, but regarding the leafukei part I heard from a very reliable source that Rav Shach was very concerned that the leadership should not pass to a certain person. And now we are told that we must all accept the leadership of the newly crowned "manhig hador" or else all the curses of Sheol will be rained down upon our heads. As to why it's ignored, I think the answer basically is that there are other power broker$ running the $how and this is what they want, for a number of reasons.

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    5. REPLY to NAT
      " Would you mind stating a precedent in history where a "manhig hador" tried to destroy the yeshiva of someone who disagreed with him? " AFRA LEPUMEICH!!!!! this never happened & is not happening now, either!!! you obviously have no idea what is really going on, & the reason(s) for the yeshiva split. you probably don't live in e.y. either way- ah griosse rachmanus on you for your ( typical american type of) naivety!!

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    6. if rav shach said it, he obviously meant rav Elyashiv zt"l.

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    7. Reply to NAT " And who invented this concept of manhig hador anyway? "
      so you no better than rav chim kanyevsky?!?!
      besides go learn a little history, or ask people whom are atleast 50 yrs old.

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    8. "a very reliable source" ...
      should i laugh or cry??? the truth is the exact opposite!
      (i gather you are no more than 30 yrs. old. other wise you would know better, unless you are new to our world)

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    9. Of course, ZERO logic or substance in your reply. You just prove my point. Keep drinking the kool-aid, man! It's so much easier to be a mindless follower. Ignorance is bliss.

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    10. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 20, 2013 at 3:31 AM

      "As to why it's ignored, I think the answer basically is that there are other power broker$ running the $how and this is what they want, for a number of reasons."

      Please elaborate on who are these power broker$ who are running the $how and what are the rea$on$.

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    11. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 20, 2013 at 2:56 PM

      I would be VERY careful if I was you before daring to malign Rav Yisroel Kalmanowitz, who is known as a tzadik yesod olam and world-class talmid chacham. I believe it was Rav Shach (or maybe the Steipler?, not sure) who said about him, that half the world rests on his tfillos.

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  9. Rav Zundel kryzer wrote a handwritten letter that he never signed this letter!!
    not suprising at all

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  10. http://s1.kikar.net/th/data/auto/addonsmgr/hm/9gz1jqig__w988h1800q80.jpg

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  11. nat unless you have documentation for your accusations against Rabbi Slifkin then they are not getting published since they directly contradict what Rav Sternbuch told me

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    1. what did rav Sternbach tell you, please.

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    2. he said that Rabbi Slifkin was not a heretic because he had legitimate views to base himself on. However he said that the views he expressed were heresy because the majority of gedolim don't hold them.

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    3. That is a difficult argument to follow -

      on the one hand the views are "legitimate", and on the other the views are heresy!

      Since when does a minority view (of gedolim) become heretical? And what of the minority view of the Eda for example?

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  12. First of all, you can ask Rav Dovid Feinstein yourself if you want. I'm sure he will be happy to tell you. Second of all, you are splitting hairs. This is not a cool yomtov vort from Moadim Uzmanim. If someone expresses heretical views then he is a heretic. He walks like a heretic, talks like a heretic, and quacks like a heretic. If Hashem wants to give him the benefit of the doubt after 120 that he was somech on the miyuta then good for him. I do not really care. When it comes to emunah and the 13 Ikarim we do not play games. What dog do you have in this fight that you feel the need to defend him after most mainstream people condemn him? You are playing with fire.

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  13. And I am sorry, but what I said was not in direct contradiction to what R M Shternbuch told you. I did not say that R D Feinstein said that he was a kofer, I said that R. D Feinstein said that the entire book was kefira and this was EXACTLY what R M Shternbuch told you. Can we all agree to that and we will leave it up to your intelligent readership to determine if he was actually a kofer or if he only espouses views that are kefira but is not actually a kofer?

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