Thursday, December 5, 2013

החתונה שמסעירה את בני ברק: החתן יישא אשת איש?Is a forced get kosher

Kikar haShabat

אדמו"רים, רבנים, דיינים ועסקנים יושבים על המדוכה בשאלת כשרות נישואין שייערכו הערב בבני-ברק • החתן, המקורב לאדמו"ר מויז'ניץ, אמור ליישא אישה גרושה שבעלה טוען כי מעולם לא גירשה וכי הגט הוצא ממנו בכפייה • שני הצדדים מציגים רבנים ודיינים המצדדים בעמדתם • הסיפור המלא (חרדים, בארץ)

24 comments :

  1. This article is referring to the Yisroel Briskman "Get Me'usa" case and beating that took place in Lakewood and was widely reported here. It seems to be saying that Yisroel Briskman's wife is now trying to marry another man:

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/10/yisroel-bryskman-assaulted-in-lakewood.html

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    1. this is not the briskman case, this is the chimowitz vasner mozes case, for more informaition go to http://nochemrosenberg.blogspot.com/
      or send mail to pdf@sendfast.org put numbers 1084 1100 in subject box, you will get 2 pdf files with all the stuning informaition

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  2. There is a letter from Reb Elyashev zt"l and yb"l Rav Wosner shlit"o that no Beth Din may force a GET without permission from Gedolim. Since there are people who think it is a mitsvah to beat a husband or coerce him with humiliation and fiscal loss, and whereas the Gedolim reject this and consider the GET invalid, so we can look forward to not just wars about remarrying, but children who grow up and through no fault of their own are considered mamzerim and doubtful mamzerim. This is what happens to a generation where ordinary rabbis don't respect the elders and Gedolim. The Lakewood crowd we talk about here all of the time don't even respect the Shulchan Aruch, so what can we say about the remarried women with their "divorces"?

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  3. The Chasam Sofer says that any coerced GET where rabbis differ if coercion was warranted produces a GET that is invalid from the Torah and a child in the remarried wife who is a mamzer from the Torah. Tesh I:28 Thus, unlike other halochose a forced GET cannot be made if there is a machlokes if the husband deserved coercion.

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    1. In this case the fight is whether it was really meusah, because he was given a choice to return to ey and go to bd which the tashbatz says is acceptable. The cs does not apply here. Nobody suggests he is a baal pulipos.

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  4. If they are going to accept this Get, why go through the hassle to beat the husband - we might as well go back Rackmans annulled marigages. Why pay 100k for mamzerim if we can produce the same results for much less?

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    1. Because the gangsters such as epstein wolmark belsky et al can not extort mega $'S If we use Rackmans tortured logic.

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  5. Asher pihem diber shavDecember 5, 2013 at 5:35 PM

    Even if he were to divorce her today, she would still not be able to get married for three months.

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  6. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 5, 2013 at 6:39 PM

    What about any women who have remarried using Epstein's forced gittin? Has anyone come out with a clear psak as to the status of Epstein's gittin?

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    1. They're get me'usa's, invalid Gets. Any woman remarried after that is committing adultery with the new man she purports to have remarried to. And any children produced from that union are mamzeirim m'doraysa.

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    2. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 5, 2013 at 8:24 PM

      A blog comment by "Yerucham" is not the kind of psak I was asking about...

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    3. chalmers. you don't want pesak you want a heter good or not as for chimowitz his get is more than just a meassur problem there was no kisvu utnnu he was knocked out

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    4. the status of Epstein's gittin?December 5, 2013 at 11:07 PM

      @ Super... Read the letter of what R' Elyashiv wrote Directly to this mobster monster mengele epsunshmutz, that his prod gittin are Meusse, pasul, she remains an eishes ish, and if she remarries the children ARE mamzeirim! It has been recently posted on this site. chad vecholok

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    5. Superintendant,
      There can never be a general rule issued about Gittin to declare them invalid and produce mamzerim. Each GET requires a Beth Din or a Gadol to review carefully with all of the details. As much as an Epstein GET stinks to the high heavens, there are children involved, there are perhaps innocent women involved, and they deserve a thorough checking of the facts. On the other hand, Rav Elyashev zt"l told me that such rabbis or Beth Dins who coerce divorces improperly lose the status or Chazoko of being a Beth Din, and so we cannot assume that the Gittin they make are kosher. Today, this is a terrible, terrible problem, as some people cast aspersions on entire state or national courts and Beth Dins who are suspected of coercing Gittin. Things get worse, not better. But now that people are learning the facts, maybe, we can fight back. Maybe.

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    6. R. Dovid E.: You yourself said these kinds of Get's are from "mamzer factories".

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    7. Superintendant ChalmersDecember 6, 2013 at 3:37 AM

      "The Status":
      Please post a link to the letter that Rav Elyashiv wrote about Epstein.

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    8. Don,
      That is a very good point. But even a GET from a mamzer factory may be kosher. I will tell you a story. When I first got involved in Gittin, it was because somebody from America went to Russia to help the new baalei teshuva, and nobody could write a GET for a couple that had become frum. So, he felt he had to try. The person knew he was not qualified to write a GET, but how could he ignore the requests of the Russian baalei teshuva, so he made a GET that was a very interesting invention. I sat down with the GET and figured out a way to permit it, and sent what I wrote to Rav Elyashev zt"l. He never got back to me, and we made a new GET under his direction, but somebody told me that he heard that Reb Elyashev zt"l did see my letter and he said, "I never said the GET was invalid." It is altogether forbidden to condemn a woman or a child to a hideous life because of any finding unless a qualified person gives it his best shot.And sometimes that best show had better be shown only to somebody like Reb Elyashev zt"l who knew enough not to laugh when there is a legal way of doing things.

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    9. R. Dovid E.: Is it true even if there's a situation of a real 100% mamzer, if it isn't well known that he's a mamzer, then we don't make an official ruling that he's a mamzer and thus implicitly allow him to marry into Klal Yisroel and keep a kosher status?

      I seem to recall a Gemorah that when Moshiach comes he will reveal all the things we got wrong or didn't know, say ploni ben ploni is a Kohen even though he always thought he's a Yisroel, etc. But one thing Moshiach will never reveal is whose a mamzer that people assumed is kosher, thus allowing anyone who assumed their kosher to keep their kosher chazaka.

      Superintendant: Rabbi Yair Hoffman quoted first-hand (in a recent article of his) someone who was at Rav Eliashev when Rav Eliashev said that Rabbi Epstein's gittin are not kosher.

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    10. Reb Dovid, if mamzer factory Gets are kosher, why are you so outraged by the mamzer factories? You're moida they can be kosher Gets.

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    11. There is no issur to marry a person who would have the status of mamzer if his background were known. Thus in isolated cases where the information is not likely to be uncovered - it is advised not to probe to uncover mamzerim or at least let the matter be handled under the direction of a major posek.

      On the othe hand where there is a systematic problem - then Rav Sternbuch and others have stated that there is a need to investigate each case.

      In cases of shidduchim where it is possible or probable the information will become public - it is important to investigate.

      Even for a beis din that produces mamzerim - not every case is a mamzer or even sofek mamzer. But a beis din which has a bad reputation - such as Rackman's beis din - every case needs to be investigated.

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  7. If a person shows us a get that was obviously written by someone who does not know hilchos gittin, then even if we can find a hetter for any individual problem,we must suspect there are many more invisible problems and the get is invalid. The remo says this many times

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  8. It is alleged R Ralbag was allegedly involved in this one.

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  9. The problem yankel is not that these guys dont know halochos. The problem is that they are after $$$$. Ruk ain yiras elokim bamokom haze ve'haraguni ak svar ishti

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  10. Now that this case has been around for awhile, has any decision been made bout accepting the get, or negotiating a real get? Or do they Jjjust want to continue torturing the poor "ex" husband?

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