Sunday, December 1, 2013

Rav Matisyahu Solomon: The machlokes of Israel should not come to America and all gedolim need to be respected

This is an excerpt of the  words of Rav Matisyahu Solomon that were spoken in Lakewood regarding the issue of macholekes of gedolei Torah. It was translated from Yiddish and was published last week in Hapeles - the newspaper of Rav Shmuel Auerbach. His message is that the dispute of gedolim should not spread to America and that all gedolim should be respected and the concern should be for truth and peace. 

The obvious problem is that the gedolim themselves are  not respecting each other. Thus it is difficult to understand how one can respect gedolim that your gadol doesn't respect?

"כמובן שאין הפירוש לעשות שלום מתוך וויתור על דעותיו ועקרונותיו, כל אחד צריך לשמור על יחוידותו ושיטתו, ולעשות את שלו, בדרך שלום. ובכך, למרות שכל אחד ממשיך לדבוק בשיטתו ובאמת שלו, אך בכל זאת עדיין אין בכך סתירה להמשך הקיום המשותף ביניהם בדרך השלום והאחוה. באופנים ובעניינים שאין סתירה ואפשר להסכים ביחד - מסכימים ביחד .ובדברים שיש חילוקי דעות - נחלקים בדעותיהם. והאמת והשלום אהבו". 

בסיום דבריו נשא המשגיח דלייקוווד שליט"א דברים נרגשים על הלקח שעלינו ללמוד מכך : "איני יודע אם צריך לדבר בזה, אך זה בחינה אצלי של 'אוי לי אם אומר, אוי לי אם לא אומר'. יודעים אתם שבא"י במחנה התורה יש שטיקל רעש, ויש חילוקי דעות - ב"ה שזה עדיין לא נכנס בעולם התורה שלנו, וצריך להזהר שזה לא יכנס לעולם התורה שלנו ח"ו.

"אבל מה שקורה זה דבר שמעולם לא היה בכלל ישראל .אפילו בזמנים של המחלוקות הגדולות, הרי שבעולם התורה היה תמיד נשאר 'האמת והשלום אהבו . אפשר שיהיו חילוקי עדות, אבל כך לבטל אחד את השני באופן כזה ? או אפילו לגעת במי שהיו מקובלים אצלנו כקדושים ויקרים לנו ?"

 "בכל דור היו כמה גדולי תורה שהיו מתבוננים עליהם כלפי מעלה, והיו יודעים כי אסור לגעת בהם, והחילול של לגעת בשמות קדושים, הוא דבר שצריך להזהר ממנו מאד מאד. שהרי קנין דעת תורה הולכת עם מעלת 'מבקשי השם'. הרי קודשא בריך הוא ואורייתא חד הוא! הרי זה תורה של הקב"ה! הלא מדובר בדעת תורה של גדולי תורה ששנים על גבי שנים התייגעו רק בתורה, שדעתם כל כולו תורה. אפילו שהם מחולקים זה על זה, אך לבוא ולעשות מזה זלזול ? - זה שייך לרחוב, איז לזה שייכות לבית מדרש".

"בית שמאי ובית הלל היו תמיד 'פייער' (אש) זה עם זה, אבל היסוד היה ביקוש האמת, היסוד היה למען האמת. היסוד היה שאין כאז 'ניצוח', לא לעשות מזה עניינים של 'למי היכולת לנצח,' 'אני אוחז ממנו ואני ממנו' וכו'"

"יש להיזהר ולהישמר שלא לקבל הלשון הרע והרכילות שמסתובב בחוץ, לא לקבל ולא להתעסק בזה. לדעת שאנו בני תורה, בני תורה הם הבנים של התורה. יש לנו רק את הדרך שהתורה מלמדת אותנו. ואנו הולכים רק בדרך התורה. והתורה אומרת, אם רוצים אתם בבנין בית המקדש - 'והאמת והשלום אהבו'! גם אם יש מחלוקת, בסוף צריך להיות שלום. כל המבט צריך להיות מבט של אמת ושלום!'.

 "הקב"ה יעזור, שכל אחר יוכל וירצה וישאר בשלו, ויחד עם זאת אנו נמשיך להכניע עצמנו לכל גדולי ישראל. זה היה מאן ומעולם דרכם של כלל ישראל, וכך זה צריך להימשך"

40 comments :

  1. I think RMS would say this on the מחלקת between moshe rabanu and קרח... In a series of articles rav rubin of har nof thinks otherwise...עיין שם

    ReplyDelete
  2. Rav yitzock mordchai hacohen rubin is a nephew of rav SZ Auerbach

    ReplyDelete
  3. As is known, the ישמח משה told his grandson he remembered his reincarnations.... And that he was neutral in the קרח מחלקת...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Asher pihem diber shavDecember 1, 2013 at 5:21 PM

      I wonder if the same logic would apply to the arguments between Harav shach ZT"l and Harav Ovadia Yosef ZT"L, or the arguments between Harav shach and the Lubavitcher rebbe. Where do we draw the line ?

      Delete
  4. Perhaps the first step in resolving this problem is acknoledging that the gdolim are no wiser nor more moral than the rest of us

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. would the next step be throwing our tefillin in the ocean?

      Delete
    2. dovy: Once you pass the State of Liberty, Gedolim and Tefilin are no longer needed in the goldene medina. Each man is great in his own right without needing to answer to a higher authority.

      Delete
    3. You both have a good point: there is a danger, but I respectfully disagree and claim that if we know how to learn, then we need not rely on others to guide our lives.

      Delete
  5. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like a feel good whitewash....

    Here are a couple of fights that come to mind in the "oilam Hatorah" that neither side respected it's opponent...

    Anyone hear of these fights? Mussar, Chassidus, Emden - Eibeshitz, just to name a few...

    Feel free to add to this insufficient list...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. in the examples you gave there were real theological issues. here everyone agrees that there are no fights about theology; at most there are some minor differences about tactics to be used against the GOI.

      Delete
    2. Ben, this machlokes is roughly comparable to the R. Emden - R. Eibeshitz controversy on a certain level. (Though this one is nowhere nearly as bad and certainly not personal.)

      Delete
    3. on one of the frum stations yesterday, the chareidi affairs reporter said that there was an ideological argument between the camps. rav shach, they said, pushed guys to get married as soon as possible. some of the rabbanim of the rav aurbach camp tell the guys to push marriage off as long as possible (but not after 22, 23). there you have it, rav emden and rav eibeshitz and even more.

      Delete
  6. The machlokesim between Gedolim, past and present, is lsheim shamayim.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ye now its over power and $ how is it lshem shamayim its so bad eitz got a seat in the eireya

      Delete
  7. has this machloket calmed down at all? there is not really much mileage, they have to accept that there will be a split in the litvish world.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No it has not calmed down at all. In fact, it is getting worse. Every day there are more stories -- children getting expelled from cheder/BY - 'cause their father supports R' Shmuel Auerbach/Bnei Torah... etc...

      This is from about 3 weeks ago...but it was not widely reported in the charedi media...

      Rabbi Kanievsky on Rabbi Auerbach: "he deserves stoning"
      An escalation in the struggle to succeed R' Elyashiv... R' Chaim Kanievsky says that R' Auerbach, is a zaken mamre ("rebellious elder") who is chayyav skilah (liable for death by stoning)! and his talmidim are behemos (animals)...
      http://judaism.walla.co.il/?w=/2069/2692881

      "Before the election, someone asked Rav Kanievsky, "Is one allowed to vote for Rabbi Auerbach's party - since it is headed by a gadol?" Rabbi Kanievsky said: "Tell them he (meaning R' Auerbach) is a rebellious elder that deserves stoning."

      "Later, a disciple asked him, "Perhaps they are behaving the way they behaved in a dispute between Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel?" Rav Kanievsky replied: "Bet Shammai were human, they are not human beings, they are Behemos."

      Delete
    2. apparently the Rosh Yeshiva has ordered his followers in the chadera yeshiva to split off.

      Delete
  8. As The Great Litvish Charedi Civil War Of 2013 continues unabated... meanwhile, the medina has slashed funding and welfare and subsidies to the charedi community.

    "In 2012 the official budget for (post high school) yeshivas stood at NIS 909 million, although various add-ons increased it to as much as NIS 1.2 billion a year.

    The new budget has cut this figure down to NIS 649m. for 2013 and NIS 422m. for 2014."

    "Before the cuts, full-time married yeshivah students received NIS 900 a month, while single students received 500 shekels a month in government stipends, while in 2013, the stipends were reduced to NIS 720 for married students and NIS 400 for single students.

    As of August, married students will now receive just NIS 279 while single students will get NIS 139, the Association of Yeshivot has said..."

    We are only 4 months into the budget cuts & charedi society is already groaning under the yoke of economic hammer blows & the 36% to 40% reduction in child allotments from the National Insurance Institute... Soon they will be gasping for oxygen; more cuts are coming in January; and we haven't even discussed the new charedi draft law that will be passed by the Knesset in the next few weeks...

    We are looking at the social and economic collapse of charedi society -- as we know it -- over the next few months/years... Pass the popcorn...

    ReplyDelete
  9. 1) Charedi political power is in decline. A) 15-20% of the litvish charedi tzibbur has "seceded" from R' Shteinman/Degel -- and they won't be voting "Gimmel" for the foreseeable future. B) Shas is disintegrating; Deri vs. Yishai; 80% of Shas' votes came from non-charedim -- who were voting for Rav Ovadia Yosef, ZTL; but they will now abandon Shas... The Ashkenazi charedi United Torah Judaism party will be with the Leftists, Socialists and Arabs in the opposition, for a long, long time...

    2) Bnei Torah, fared as well as its leaders could have possibly hoped for. The party, headed by spiritual guide Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach, took two council seats in Bnei Brak, two in Modi’in Illit and one mandate in Jerusalem.

    Sweetest for Bnei Torah, however, was the 3.6% of the mayoral vote that its candidate Haim Epstein took.

    Although incumbent mayor Nir Barkat won the election by some 6%, it was Bnei Torah’s refusal to withdraw its candidacy that gave the hassidic groups in Jerusalem the excuse not to back Likud- Beytenu candidate Moshe Lion, depriving him of critical votes in the tight race and essentially sealing the election for Barkat.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Some of this would seem to be a consequence of the development of the ideas of Daas Torah and "gadol Hador" over the past 50 years or so, where the normal state of disagreement among leading talmidei chachamim in matters of hashkafa, halacha and policy has become close to kefira in much of the chareidi (especially Litvish) world. There was a time when one normally understood that there were Gedolei Hador, not one "Gadol Hador" everyone was bound to obey in all matters.

    When I was a young man the argument between Rav Moshe and Rav Henkin, Zichronam Tzadikkim L'vracha about civil marriage was still forceful; no one thought it odd or that either one was somehow impious for disagreeing with the other.

    ReplyDelete
  11. The American Litvish Yeshiva World has it's hands full with the Great Kotler-Feinstein Litvish Civil War. They don't need to worry about the Israeli Litvish Charedi Civil War...

    At the Agudah Convention did any of the Rabbonim or Roshei Yeshivas talk about the litvi$h ye$hivi$h $hidduch cri$i$? Did the problem disappear overnight? From what I hear it's getting worse and worse... The problem will get bigger and bigger -- and an ever increasing number of girls will be sacrificed on the altar of the seminary/shidduch/kollel system -- until the real underlying root causes are dealt with...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The shidduch crisis is almost entirely due to the "Age Gap" issue. This has been alleviated and the shidduch crisis has been reduced.

      Delete
  12. Yehudi שערי חסדDecember 2, 2013 at 7:51 AM

    The auerbach camp all along insisted they had no deal with barkat. The day after the elections they addmitted they were lying. This is a new low in harAdi poltics
    A big askan by RSA is a נכד of R YM harlop who is still obsessed with hatred for the hazin ish for his campaign againt his zadie , and therefor against RCK.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Could you please clarify this? What was the campaign of the Chazon Ish against Rav Yaakov Moshe about? When did this campaign happen? And who is the grandson that you mention?

      Delete
    2. Yehudi שערי חסדDecember 2, 2013 at 11:12 PM

      In the recent benyamin braun biography of the חזן-איש it describes his efforts to stop r' harlop from cheif rabbi. Instead rabbi doctor YI herzog was narrowly elected.

      Delete
    3. Yehudi שערי חסדDecember 2, 2013 at 11:18 PM

      Rav auerbach allowed the infamous butcher of monsey m finkel who sold trefot for 8 years into שערי חסד after finkel had been thrown out of 8 other communites after fleeing to israel.

      Delete
  13. people (in the chareidi world anyway) will have to make a choice sooner or later. it isn't simply a question of saying "kavod harav" to both rav aurbach and rav kanyevski or standing when they enter or stuff like that.

    what happens when the fundraiser from a rav aurbach yeshiva comes to your door? do you give or not? it doesn't matter one whit if you have money to give to both sides. according to the bnei brak rabbanim, if you give to rav aurbach, you're aiding and abetting, period.

    ReplyDelete
  14. You ask "Thus it is difficult to understand how one can respect gedolim that your gadol doesn't respect? "

    It really isn't difficult from thousands of miles away. "Your gadol" to us in America can be all of the above. Yes, that means we will have to discount the more caustic remarks some of these gedolim have said about the others, but we're OK with doing that here in the land of the free.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Does anyone know the details of the Chazon Ish's campaign against Rav YM Charlop, referenced above?

    ReplyDelete
  16. I applaud Reb Matisyahu for having the courage to proclaim publicly that he too is dealing with major cognitive dissonance.
    rabboisai, let's face it - this 'war of the dueling fatwa rabbis' is causing perhaps the biggest yerida in adherence to Daas Torah amongst yeshivaleit ever.
    Yankel fun mikkeys kave shtibel

    ReplyDelete
  17. Jerusalem... The hillel shabas, christain- moslem-jewish festivals, will be on the head of RSA ( along with the belz and ger rebbis).
    Their krum sevora that rav shach said to vote only for a haradi certainly doesn't apply here where the choice is between a sonie Hashem and kipPah seruga.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Yehudi שערי חסד (ysc(December 3, 2013 at 2:21 PM

    The partner of lapid שרי was always refered to d lipman... But now after the elections RSA (הפלס; has promoted him to HARAV dl

    ReplyDelete
  19. "Rabbi Tzaddok would say: Do not separate yourself from the community. Do not act as a counselor-at-law (when serving as a judge). Do not make the Torah a crown to magnify yourself with, or a spade with which to dig. So would Hillel say: one who make personal use of the crown of Torah shall perish. Hence, one who benefits himself from the words of Torah, removes his life from the world."

    Pirkei Avot 4:5

    ReplyDelete
  20. 1)This is obviously only relevant to people (such as myself) who saw RALS and RSA as gedolim in the first place.

    2) I don't see the fact that they're bashing each other as a reason to stick my nose in. It's not like I live in Israel and have to decide who to vote for.
    http://www.leimanlibrary.com/texts_of_publications/119_Rabbi_Ezekiel_Landau_Letter_of_Reconciliation.pdf

    "In 1751, the distinguished rabbinic scholar, R. Jacob Emden (d. 1776), accused
    one of the leading rabbinic authorities of his generation, R. Jonathan
    Eibeschuetz (d. 1764) – the Chief Rabbi of Altona, Hamburg, and
    Wandsbeck – of being a secret believer in Shabbetai Zevi. Emden’s accusation
    was largely based on his reading of some kabbalistic amulets that
    were ascribed to the Chief Rabbi. In effect, Emden labeled Eibeschuetz a
    heretic, whose halakhic rulings were null and void. The controversy that
    ensued – the Emden-Eibeschuetz controversy – would pit rabbi against
    rabbi in Jewish communities throughout Europe. During the controversy,
    Eibeschuetz and his rabbinic supporters placed Emden and his supporters
    under the ban. Emden and his rabbinic supporters placed Eibeschuetz
    and his supporters under the ban. Since almost every major rabbinic fi gure
    alive at the time took sides in the controversy, virtually everyone – at least in
    theory – was under the ban."



    There's nothing especially new here.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Let us call a spade a spade. The cause of this infighting and total breakdown in the Chareidi/Chassidic community is a result of one and only one thing: Antizionism. Because generations of Yeshiva students were taught to hate their nonfrum brethren who did so much, including sacrificing their lives, to build a beautiful state from which everybody benefits, not least the Chareidim, the talmidim learned that hatred is a valid method of avodas hashem. For 65 years, the state supported Chareidi Torah institutions and families, and not one word of thanks was heard, only denigrations. When the money-flow and army exemptions were stopped, after the chilonim were finally fed up, then the Chareidim accused the state of destroying Torah. Where was the hakaras hatov for the worlds largest Torah supporter in history up till then?

    Unfortunately, many in the yeshiva world chose to follow a false daas torah/eigel hazahav of hatred, instead of the true daas torah of Reb Aryeh Levin, that of ahavas yisroel, darchei noam, and shalom.

    It is clear that this is the cause of the current fighting, as the worst fighting is in the mekomos and movements which were most virulently antizionist, vehamayvin yavin. When we return to our most important mesorah, that of chesed, then the fighting will stop. It is time to do tshuvah and stop this utter, childish, embarrassing nonsense. Please see my article Mesorah of Chesed, available online for more details. Yishma chacham vyosif lekach.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your kind words. The moral of the story is when someone builds a Frankenstein, he may end up becoming a victim.

      I mean, think about it. The only nafka mina between the two sides that I am aware of, is that RALS says bachurim should go to the army registration booths but not serve, while RSA says not even to register. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am willing to bet that 90% or more of the tzibbur doesn't even know what this whole machlokes is about. They just know it's a mitzva to fight on one side or the other, and break up yeshivas and families.

      Unfortunately, Mike Tyson, yibadel lchaim tovim, has retired, but this fight is just as important and entertaining. At the very end, some very important knowledge will emerge that will strongly benefit the world. We will have learned whether the tafkid of a yid is to be very antizionist, or extremely antizionist. Get a good seat, buy a scorecard, and enjoy it.

      What a perversion of yiddishkeit. Note, I have no hachraa whether yeshiva bachurim should or shouldn't serve. But that is totally not the point here. It is the midos raos that have been ingrained into generations of yeshiva bachurim that bother me.

      Delete
    2. this has been my mishna for years. you approve destroying ads that you don't like, that you find to be provocative and you end up with students in ponovitch fighting each other, gedolim cursing each other, yeshivot splitting.

      this isn't rocket science. it happens time and time again. the army uses administrative detention as an easy solution against arabs and they end up using it against jews. same dynamic.

      btw this violence preceded zionism. the litvaks and chassidim were both using every illegitimate trick possible to give it to the other side.

      Delete
  22. Actually there's a not so we'll known squeal to story with Rav Emden 2 gedolai brought down Yerushlaim shel maloh (I think)
    Rav Emden had follower who was gifted writer who a pamphlet against their opponent and on the of this author's son's Bris Milah. Rav Emden whished him the should like the father. Unfortunately this out to be a terrible curse as this child grew to be one the most heretic writers (Carl Marx?). In his old age he actually did teshuvah long after his books was published. But this wasn't publicised. This has been published.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The brocha was that he should be the exact opposite of Rav Yonasson. Supposedly, when Rav Yonasson heard about this, he said omain to the "Bracha" as well. It was not that he should be like his father, as his father was not a heretic.

    The child was definitely not Karl Marx, as Rav Yaakov Emdan was niftar in 1776. Marx was born in 1818, more than 40 years later.

    ReplyDelete

ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE POSTED!
please use either your real name or a pseudonym.