Wednesday, May 23, 2012

A chassidic woman talks about sex

XOJane     4. We have been happily shagging for millennia. Jews never had the concept of "original sin."
Judaism is the original sex-positive culture. What? You heard me right. Y'all need "sex-positive Third wave feminism" to help you feel like having sex is OK. Jews bypassed the whole Christian idea that all sex, even in marriage, is a sin. And Protestant asceticism just never happened for us.

G-d likes it when a married Jewish couple has sex. Jews never got a message that sex is dirty. We think sex is good. It is so good that having it is actually a commandment. No, we cannot shag "anything that moves." No, we can't sleep around or have sex outside of marriage. But once you're married, sex is totally cool and awesome and G-d likes it.

I don't know who made up the dumb story about having sex through a sheet, but let's bury that old chestnut now. Having sex through a sheet is actually prohibited by Torah and we are commanded explicitly by G-d to get totally naked to shag. Just in case you're wondering.
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See Rabbi E Fink's critique

21 comments :

  1. WHERE do you get this stuff??

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  2. Interesting response:
    http://finkorswim.com/2012/05/22/dear-chaya/

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  3. Interesting response:
    http://finkorswim.com/2012/05/22/dear-chaya/

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    1. Well Rabbi Fink once again does not miss an opportunity to denigrate Orthodoxy, while simultaneously claiming to be an Orthodox Rabbi.
      He defended Deborah Feldman even when it was clearly demonstrated that the majority of her story was a lie, and claimed that her falsified experience was typical of the "insular Chassidim".
      Now he attacks this author and claims that she is falsely ascribing her fortunately and apparently in his mind against the odds positive Chassidic experience to those unfortunate "insular Chassidim" who don't get to share her Chassidic by choice good feelings.
      How an extremely modern(Orthodox?) Rabbi in Venice California believes he can talk definitively about a community that he is not and never was a part of is beyond me. That he sees fit to denigrate them is absurd.

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    2. Well said, R. Tzadok.

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  4. She is a b't and like most b't she tries to be more catholic the pop. BT's are the most dedicated defenders of Haredi extremism (for example Jonsthan Rosenblum)

    They also try to convince the FFB that they are just like them (good luck with that(

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    1. I'm a baal teshuva who would never want to be like the FFB, who doesn't understand what it is like to be born into a world without access to the Torah.

      The FFB cannot fully appreciate the gift he had since he was born like a baal teshuva can.

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  5. I JUST READ THE ORIGINL ARTICLE - BY PRSENTING THIS SHORT EXCERPT YOU ARE DOING A GREAT DISSERVICE. THIS LADY WROTE A BEAUTIFL ARTICLE AND YOU SHOULD REPRINT IT COMLETELY. THANX

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    1. I don't post full articles because of copyright issues - I attempt to follow the fair use principle

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    2. this YY, btw, is not to be confused with me, yy (lower caps)

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  6. I didn't think I'd see this article mentioned here! I was alerted to this article via Facebook yesterday where it was posted by three of my 'friends,' all three of whom are frum women (one of them a BT Chabad rebbitzen, who posted it with a warning that it might not be appropriate for the more sensitive among her friends). It's a bit too in-your-face for my taste, but I found it compelling enough to pass it along to a friend/rabbi of mine who works in kiruv in case he might find it useful. Looking forward to reading R' Fink's critique.

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  7. I don't get the picture of the two 'Taliban' women in black burqas.

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    1. That's what Rabbi Fink thinks is the true reality of Chassidic female life?

      Or it is to demonstrate the disparity between perception and reality as outlined in the article by a Chassidic woman?

      Take your pick.

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    2. that is the stereotype she is writing against

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  8. She is obviously not a ger hassific woman, the get do not have any contact with their wives which is not household related, they do not touch their wives or being affectionate with them. They only have an intercourse once a month on tevila night.

    Other chaissidus have their own prishus style.

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  9. My response to Rabbi Fink:

    I am not Chassidish, I am what they like to call Ultra-Ultra-Orthodox. I live in a tiny enclave of barely touched Judaic hegemony in Jerusalem. And I concur completely with Chaya.

    You dispute her first, excellent point that we are not imprisoned. What your ranting ignores is that all societies incur social consequences for behavior, including secular societies that have nothing to do with Judaism. That does not limit personal freedom, it is simply a component of choice. There is nothing wrong with this. Rather, it is one definitive element of what a society is, i.e. a body that responds to the choices of the individual.

    Secondly, your "incontrovertible facts" about halacha vis-a-vis women represent the most superficial, thoughtless spooning that those with an elementary-school level Jewish education like to spew about a body of religious, social, psychological, and spiritual thought that has been rigorously developed over the course of millennia. Grow up and stop writing about so-called religious womens issues like a seventh grader. I challenge any woman or man who would rally to your cause to have the integrity to spend several years in yeshiva first. (Knowing that you have already done so makes your misleading stances all the more disturbing.)

    I am sorry to use such harsh words, but your own words are so offensive that they demand response in kind. Were you aware that you present women like me as anything but free agents? That you present women like me as idiots who are pleased to be relegated to a second-class status? Surely you jest. My life experience (and I joined the Charedi world at twelve, thank you) attests that Chaya spoke very well for the vast majority of Chassidish and Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women.

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  10. I assume that HoRav HaGaon Rav Shternbuch Shlit'a approved of you posting this article just as does all other articles that you post here.

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    1. Rav Sternbuch doesn't read my blog. I do sometimes print out news articles and essays that appear on the blog and give it to him to read. He is an avid reader. I used to do it on a weekly basis - now it is one or twice a month. There have been occasional complaints to him - such as when I posted article describing Troppers depravity - but he has never criticized me and he told me he trusts my judgment.

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  11. The Gerrer enclaves do indeed deprive wives of any emotional gratification. And the real ones do it through a sheet, never call a wife by name or say an xtra word to them. Life is 1 tear filled misery to some. I know. Am Ger lite myself. And abhor this throwback behavior some employed in the time of the Bais Yisroel. Call Moishe Foigel Rav of Ger in BP yourself @ 718-252-7366. Or the Commandant in BP, Yitzchok Margulies 718-851-1067

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  12. Mark from IsraelMay 29, 2012 at 10:29 PM

    Reb Daniel, is it a fact that certain groups of Shomrei Torah have group stringencies when it comes to intimacy? If so, what is the purpose; and in your experience as a therapist, does it help or hinder shalom bayis? Thanks.

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    Replies
    1. Yes it is a fact. Ger is a clear example.

      The purported purpose is to promote kedusha.

      It generally is a problem for shalom bayis.

      Delete

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