Tuesday, December 15, 2009

R' Leib Tropper quits Eternal Jewish Family

Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel Assumes EJF Leadership,

Rav Leib Tropper Steps Down - Eternal Jewish Family

December 14, 2009
The Eternal Jewish Family (EJF) announces today that Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, the Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Zichron Moshe in South Fallsburg and one of the leading Gedolei Hatorah internationally, has agreed to assume the position of Chairman of the Rabbinic Committee of the Eternal Jewish Family following an announcement that Rav Leib Tropper has resigned that position effective December 12, 2009. Rav Wachtfogel joins a distinguished board of rabbinic and halachic authorities who oversee the activities of EJF, headed by Rav Reuven Feinstein, Chairman of the Halachic Committee (US), Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu (Europe) and Rav Shmuel Eliezer Stern (Av Bais Din of Rabbi Wosner’s Bais Din – Israel).

EJF also announced that Rabbi Chaim Blum, EJF’s liaison to the network of Botei Din in the Torah community, has agreed to serve as interim director of EJF. The organization operates offices in the US, Europe and Israel with international headquarters in Monsey NY. In accepting the position, Rabbi Blum said: “The recent announcement by Rav Tropper that he is resigning his post at EJF is accepted with sadness and regret but we appreciate the years of dedication and service he brought to the organization. His vision, expertise and leadership significantly contributed to EJF’s success.  The announcement by some of the world’s leading Torah authorities that they will take an increased role in the Eternal Jewish Family is testimony of the organization’s strength and commitment to its core mission. The many people who benefit from EJF’s activities should know that the organization remains fully committed to its important mission, one which has helped thousands of people in their pursuit of a Jewish life.”

Statement by Rabbi Leib Tropper
I have decided to resign my position at the Eternal Jewish Family (EJF) effective December 12, 2009 to pursue a variety of other interests. As a founder of EJF, I am proud of my role of being an architect of a very dynamic and important movement in our community.   I will in the coming months do my utmost to be of service to the Jewish community in any way I can. I am extremely enthusiastic that a distinguished Torah personality of the stature of Rav Ela Ber Wachtfogel has agreed to assume my position of Chairman of the Rabbinic Committee and that Rabbi Chaim Blum has agreed to serve as interim director of EJF. I wish every continued success to EJF, its rabbinic leadership and the extraordinary team of dayanim and dedicated individuals that serve the organization in many parts of the world.

Statement by Rav Reuven Feinstein, President of Halachic Committee on EJF
It is with a deep sense of regret and yet renewal that I note a change in leadership of the Eternal Jewish Family that includes the agreement by Rav Ela Ber Wachtfogel to serve as Chairman of the Rabbinic Committee of the Eternal Jewish Family.  I hope that Rav Leib Tropper’s decision to resign his position at EJF will serve him and his family well.  At the same time, I have also agreed to take on a more active role in overseeing all of the halachic nuances of EJF in assuring that all universally accepted conversions are in compliance with the highest standards of halacha. I wish to reassure the community that EJF will continue to be guided by the highest halachic standards under the leadership of the Gedolei Yisroel, headed by Rav Wachtfogel and myself in the US, Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu in Europe and Rav Shmuel Eliezer Stern in Israel.
For More Information, please contact: Erin Gentry - 917.392.1775

38 comments:

  1. Wow, its about time,lets see where the ship travels without its captain!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Recipients and PublicityDecember 15, 2009 at 9:37 AM

    Those who claim to be taking over the leadership of EJF are tainted by the simple fact that they were on Rabbi Tropper's payrol via the tens of millions he received from Tom Kaplan and his nephew and passed on to them.

    It's what would be called "treife gelt" so that neither of the rabbis that talk of now "innocently" taking over EJF have any credibility in light of what has been revealed about Tropper's corruptions and their constant support of Tropper over all the years.

    Therefore they too must take the blame and step aside ASAP and do the honest thing by allowing EJF to shut down and let the batei din of the world carry on with their missions without self-appointed destructive busibodies snooping around now that the super-snooper has been shown to be worse than the problems he claimed to come to cure.

    This is a very sad day for Klal Yisroel and for Charedi Jewry that it could allow an outright menuval like Tropper function in the limelight and get away with his shtik so long, and it is foolish for great rabbis to add insult to injury by insulting the intelligence of the Charedi public by continuing the charade because no one on this Earth will ever again listen to ANYTHING emanating from EJF or any of it's in-house rabbis that knew Tropper all along and were happy to nosh big time from the palms of his tricky hands and now wish to pretend as if all is well and nothing wrong ever happened.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I am going to agree with RAP on this one. This is not going to go away this easily. Bowing out while saving face with nice supportive statements from Rabbis as though nothing were wrong. I am afraid that this will not fly in this circumstance for two reasons:
    1)Tropper has made too many enemies who want to see him go down hard simply on the merit of how he has behaved with them.
    2) The Jewish world has grown weary over the last couple of years of seeing sexual scandals swept under the rug, while the perpetrators are protected. Unfortunately for Tropper while child abuse is a fuzzy thing in most people's mind and hard to prove, this is not, and is supported by solid evidence in photographs, audio, and video.

    I am afraid that with these two factors combined offering Tropper a graceful bow out will only serve to exacerbate the damage that will be done. Perhaps many do not realize the anger that has been building over the seeming desire of Gedolim to sweep these things under the rug. However I fear if there is nothing further coming from the Torah world rebuke will come from other sectors, and many many more will be embarrassed in the process.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Totally agree with RAP's sentiment. This organization and its constituents are so deep in that there is pretty much no clean way out of this one. They can try to spin it all they want but, baruch hashem, the sheker is beginning to be exposed and EJF will soon be put out of its misery.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Recipients and PublicityDecember 15, 2009 at 10:35 AM

    Is Rav Wahchtfogel now going to take on Tropper's role of defying the original BADATS rulings against participating in anything to do with EJF and will he also follow Tropper's lead in defying Rav Shternbuch's pesakim against Tropper and the terrible EJF notion of running to proselytize and convert goyim that runs counter to normative Halachic practice?

    Tricky Tropper was able to keep his EJF act going for about four years like a seal rolling and dancing on a big black wet ball in full view of a distracted and deluded rabbinic audience who did not latch on to what was really afoot, however Rabbi Wachtfogel is stepping into pure mud and he is incapable of such things and his pronouncments will amount to nothing in the face of the long-standing rulings of all the dayanim of the BADATS against Tropper and the EJ, not to mention that by now the much of the Charedi world, the Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionist worlds have long walked away from EJF/Tropper in disgust.

    After all the millions spent on PR connecting the name "Tropper" with EJF it will be utterly impossible to unravel the tight "brand-name" connection between the repugnant Tropper and the fatally flawed and radioactice toxic EJF. Therefore it makes perfect logical sense to shut down EJF and be done with it once and for all!

    While Tropper had the chutzpa to figuratively spit in the face of Rav Shternbuch and the BADATS, at the same time as he was performing multiple acts of nevala behind the scenes, it is now known why he was able too because he had was innately a perverted sociopath, but Rav Wachtfogel cannot take on the might of Rav Shternbuch and the full BADATS in light of what has transpired. This patient is DOA and cannot be resuscitated.

    Simply put, Rav Wachtfogel, and for that matter Rav Reuven Feinstein are not poskim of the caliber of Rav Shternbuch, and in any case what kind of "dayanim" could they be to judge situations where they have been taking huge amounts of money from the radioactive toxic Tropper in defiance of one of the first rules applying to ANY Dayan of not taking shochad/bribes?

    So right off the bat, both Rav Wachtfogel and Rav Reuven Feinstein are the LAST people to take up full leadership of the dead in the water EJF in this case, and they should do the smart, logical, ehrlich and safe thing, and just resign their own positions from EJF as a prelude to EJF being shut down, or else face the same consequnces that befell Tropper.

    This is all a sad day indeed for the Torah world, but it is all for the good, like the cleaning out of ALL the impurities from the Bais HaMikdosh that is celebrated on Chanuka!

    ReplyDelete
  6. http://lubavitch.com/news/article/2027880/Energy-Magnate-Aguiar-Makes-Chanukah-Gift-to-Chabad-Lubavitch.html

    Energy magnate Guma Aguiar has made a gift of $770,000 to Chabad-Lubavitch World Headquarters in honor of Chanukah 2009.

    ReplyDelete
  7. is there any site that posted the evidence? is it ok to view it or is it pritzus?

    by the way, i think rav wachtfogel has a nephew named chaim blum who learns in the south fallsburg kollel. his father used to own armon terrace chassuna hall in boro park.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Recipients and PublicityDecember 15, 2009 at 2:18 PM

    "Perplexed said...I find it very odd that R' Elya Ber is covering up for Tropper" -- and the obvious answer is that he is NOT covering for Tropper because all clear-cut the evidence against Tropper is overwhelming at this stage (Tropper would never have quit otherwise) but it is himself and others like him that he is protecting, see the "list of 36 rabbis" who were slated to receive huge funds that came from Guma to be distributed by Tropper: Jewish Billionaire Sues Prominent US Rabbi.

    So view Rav Wachtfogel as the designated "defender" of the other rabbis like himself who have made themselves vulnerable to taking funds from an unsavory individual like Tropper whom they should have been monitering a lot better as he was literally cheating right under their noses.

    That is why Rav Wachtfogel is making a huge mistake defending Tropper and he will get dragged into the dinie Torah and court cases being waged against Tropper as they are now consecutive heads of EJF when he should wipe his hands clean, hand back any monies to Guma Aguiar that came his way via Tropper's machinations, perhaps even issue a brief manly and frank apology, and get on with his life and job at the South Falsberg yeshiva where he is a magid shiur, he is not the rosh yeshiva there the place is owned and run by the Gorelick family in any case and why would they want a trail of questions creeping up to the front door of their holy yeshiva?

    ReplyDelete
  9. RaP said it all so eloquently.

    I am only left wondering if the new boss prefers little boys, little girls or married women?

    ReplyDelete
  10. LOTS of money flows from Tom Kaplan via Tropper to R. Wachtfogel.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I agree with RAP, Mekubal, and Jersey Girl (it's so rare when everyone agrees!).

    This resignation accomplishes absolutely nothing. The organization still exists, and the same cast of characters and "Batei Din" exist.

    It would be better to see EJF disbanded, and a permanent injunction placed against the conversions of any Rabbi who has either worked directly for the organization or has been a recommended Beis Din of it.

    Meanwhile, Tropper's life goes on.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Presumably Tropper is denying everything and saying that all the evidence is fake and he is being set up either by this blog's owner or by Guma or someone else. Tendler taught us that the best response is denial and claiming conspiracy.

    ReplyDelete
  13. This is exactly why we have child molesters are our midst.

    So, Tropper has resigned, denies any wrongdoing, and the frum power base is satisfied. (same story as when a child molester resigns under threat of evidence being made public)

    Now he's free to "molest" the Jewish people further, because there are many who believe this was nothing but a smear campaign.

    The video evidence MUST be made public. Suppressing it merely gives him license to lead or influence others to halachic perversion.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Obviously, it's a matter of time before the evidence appears on the web.
    (I have heard some of the audio tapes myself)
    However, I fail to see what purpose is served by airing them in public.
    Either way, Tropper is finished.
    Even if (when) the recordings come out, his Rabbinnic supporters can claim that they never knew about it.
    I would tend to believe that this is probably true.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Dah!

    THEY are going to close shop but after they gain control of the money the EJF and channel it to another organization.

    As other posters say, THEY should return the money or at least give it to tzedaka.

    There are only two groups who look good after thisdevelopment,. The Eida and the YCT crowd. (wow).

    How Basil Herring is going to react ? I hope he and his RCA sleep better now. The shouls thank the Eida and YCT for saving their ....

    What will happen to other men mentioned in the tape ?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Actually, Tendler's conspiracy was uniquely complex. He said there was a broad conspiracy that cut across all swaths of the spectrum, from Chassidish to yeshivish to modern orthodox. Considering how many enemies Tropper has made, he might have to make the same absurd claim.

    ReplyDelete
  17. It will take courage for the good guys to bring down the "big ones"
    Will we settle for anemic claims that "we were misled" or will you push the question how can this have happened. I fear this will lead to less reform than the Monsey chicken scandal. I fear that not enough questions will be asked about the rabbonim who gave the hechsherim.

    Rabbi Eidensohn, by now the tapes are not as important as knowing what happened between him and his rabbinic backers? Please go the mile on this issue.

    Having listened to the tapes, I understand how he pulled the wool over the eyes of his conversion candidates and converts. But how could his rabbinic board have missed all the clues, clues that were utterly obvious to you, who was not on the board and did not have the responsibility for assuring that things were on the up and up?

    ReplyDelete
  18. I'm a little confused here as the comments can be interpreted two ways. Were the problems with R. Tropper related to some personal improprieties/infedelities, or do they relate some sort of corporate mismanagement at EJF?

    ReplyDelete
  19. prospective convertDecember 15, 2009 at 8:53 PM

    I am a prospective convert who was mentored by a rabbi through EJF for a few months. I do not think it's accurate to say that they actually proselytized. What they do is provide a mentor to gentile spouses of Jews, or non-Jews descended from intermarriages, who are interested in converting. There is no persuasion, talking about why you should convert and so on. And they're strict: in fact, the reason I stopped the process is that I realized I wouldn't be able to complete the conversion, because my (born Jewish) wife is not (yet!) willing to commit to being completely observant for the rest of her life.
    They also never told me anything about being required to believe that the earth is 6000 years old.

    ReplyDelete
  20. They also never told me anything about being required to believe that the earth is 6000 years old.

    They do not tell you anything until they give you their “teudat qiyur” then they will try to coerce you to their haredi lifestyle and if you do obey them they will revoke your conversion like they did here.

    http://www.jewcy.com/tags/leib_tropper

    ReplyDelete
  21. "how could his rabbinic board have missed all the clues...?"

    There's the always classic Shemos 23:8.

    Another appropriate quote-

    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
    - Upton Sinclair

    A more cynical view is that aside from a nice source of funds, they saw Tropper as a useful attack dog for their larger (anti-MO, anti-RCA) agendas.

    ReplyDelete
  22. None of the EJF converts I know personally (more than 2, fewer than half a dozen) live a charedi lifestyle. None of them have been threatened with having their conversions revoked either.

    I also know several people who dropped the program because it was too strict for them. I think any conversion program with a 100% pass rate is too lenient.

    None of the EJF associated converts i know had any interaction with Rav Tropper. I always had the impression he handled the politics and the conferences, and the nuts and bolts handling of the day to day interaction with the conversion candidates was handled by others.

    This is not to say the EJF program did not have flaws - it most certainly did. But the description I read from Monsey Tzadik and others does not reflect the program I knew.

    ReplyDelete
  23. he was personally involved in numerous conversion i know of

    ReplyDelete
  24. I was mentored by a rabbi through EJF for several months and I never even heard of Tropper. I know of at one EJF mentor who is Modern Orthodox -- this is not a purely Yeshivish organization.

    I don't understand why people depict what EJF does as proselytizing. They have never sought out people to "convert;" all they do is provide mentors and batei din for people who come to them who are interested in converting. The people who come to them want to convert (though their spouses are not always on board). They aren't discouraged from converting, but they're not encouraged or pressured either. The events they have for the couples (which I never attended), including inspirational speakers and such, are presumably meant to help get the spouses on board, not to convince the potential converts to convert.

    I understand that people want to know what the halachic basis is for what they are doing -- I asked them myself what the ruling of R' Feinstein was that they based the organization on, but never received a reply -- but I think the EJF skeptics have a distorted picture of what EJF actually does.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Larry Lennhoff should disclose that his wife is an employee of Tropper and the EJF did their giur lechumra.

    Of course, Tropper is involved personally with converts, in a movie posted here he even was mesader kiddushim for at least two couples.

    In other case he run after converts trying to prevent them from converting with rabbi Bomzer.

    He pays people to provide him with intermarried couples.

    I cannot believe with all the money Tropper has he still charged Larry and his wife.

    http://lennhoff.com/gerus_l'chumrah_story.htm

    ReplyDelete
  26. I was mentored by a rabbi through EJF for several months and I never even heard of Tropper. I know of at one EJF mentor who is Modern Orthodox -- this is not a purely Yeshivish organization.


    There is nice bridge right off the FDR drive I can get for you with 0 percent financing

    ReplyDelete
  27. Recipients and PublicityDecember 16, 2009 at 1:54 AM

    Some important observations:

    "Jersey Girl said...I am only left wondering if the new boss prefers little boys, little girls or married women?"

    RaP: Unfortunately R EB Wachtfogel is also a previously divorced man and as the new holder of a hot-seat hot-button controversial outfit like EJF he must expect closer public scrutiny and not for one second imagine that he can hide behind the false "aura" of being a great sage and expect the same fawning unthinking subservience of everyone like young yeshiva bochurim do as pictured in the YATED's picture centerfolds.

    This was also one of Tropper's fatal flaws, that he assumed that the world owed him deference by dint of his "great scholarship" and position as a wannabe rosh yeshiva. Neither Tropper nor R EB Wachtfogel are roshei yeshiva in the classical sense, while Tropper ran his own BT yeshiva, R Wachtfogel is a pure hireling at a far-off Catskills yeshiva that barely hangs by a thread. They need controversy like a hole in the head, even tho they obviously need money funneled in from somewhere.

    "EJF watch said...LOTS of money flows from Tom Kaplan via Tropper to R. Wachtfogel"

    RaP: Not just to R EB Wachfogel but the many other Haredi rabbis that Wachfogel will now try to shield and take the hits for. He must have a martyr's and masochistic complex to take on this job. If this is the case then sadly he will have to go down like Tropper for justifying the morally incomprehsnible.

    It seems this would be a most propitious time for R EB Wachtfogel to cash in on his social security pension and retire to Switzerland with his wife and shas and learn gemara peacefully in the cool Swiss Alps/

    He will never have the same rapport with Tom Kaplan and Tom's wife, Dafna Recanati. Wachtfogel is clearly out of his depth here and the Kaplans will get bored with him and tire of his attempt to be a "kosher Tropper" of all things.

    It's the end of EJF let's face it and it's time to learn the lessons of what went wrong and not keeping on lusting after all that treife gelt money still.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Recipients and PublicityDecember 16, 2009 at 2:18 AM

    Observations:

    "Bright Eyes said...This resignation accomplishes absolutely nothing. The organization still exists, and the same cast of characters and "Batei Din" exist."

    RaP: This is not correct simply because the PR strategy of Tropper was to brand the name of EJF with his own name so stronlgy with psychological super glue so that Tropper=EJF and EJF=Tropper no matter which way one turns.

    Almost every ad that ever appeared and was paid for by Kaplan and Guma was designed in a way that the name Tropper would forever be merged and bonded with EJF, the two names go together so that the "personality" and "character" of EJF as an organization is inextricably bound with the twisted personality, abnormal character, and horrendous name of Tropper.

    Tropper's resignation in disgarce means that the name of EJF has been hurt beyond repair and it too will and must shut down willy-nilly.

    What are they going to say, that for so many years EJF was nothing but a now-proven glorified entrapment center and now it's just a nice little harmless boy scout club house? No way in heck that that could ever happen or be believed by any sane or rational person.

    It's like a house that has been found to be totally ridden with toxic Tropper termites and there is no hope for it, it must be condemned, torn down, and described as a toxic danger zone, to do otherwise opens them to law suits of public endangerment and illegal entrapment

    "It would be better to see EJF disbanded, and a permanent injunction placed against the conversions of any Rabbi who has either worked directly for the organization or has been a recommended Beis Din of it."

    RaP: Indeed, this is about to happen. Tropper dug the grave for EJF himself. EB Wachtfogel and Reuven Feinstein are putting up the tomb-stone, and the obituaries are already written and posted with the postings of the recordings of Tropper's own voice soliciting instead of his so-called humbug universal conversions!

    "Meanwhile, Tropper's life goes on."

    RaP: Nope, he's finished. The only question remains what to do about undoing his more than 40 years of work in the BT, conversions and yeshiva world. His disciples, converts, benefactors and recipients of funds from him by now must ALL be examined and held up for scrutiny to make sure that they have not fallene victim to the Tropper cult of inner immorality covered up by outer fake piety, just like the outwardly religiously pious Sabbateans and Frankists were uprooted and dealt with.

    The BADATS and Rav Shternbuch should set up a neutral commission of inquiry and purification of the Tropper cult and creed to root out his disciples infected with his diseases and purify Klal Yisroel like the Chashmonaim purified the Bais HaMikdosh. This is a very serious matter!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Recipients and PublicityDecember 16, 2009 at 2:44 AM

    "observer said...Presumably Tropper is denying everything..."

    RaP: Tropper can say all he wants, but by now the world knows he's a big liar, he can't help it. The evidence is in, audio-tapes, videos and photos are the proof. It is ironic that Tropper who was the master forger and doctorer of rabbinic documents as was proven on this blog in the past, is now the victim of undoctored explicit proof of his own voice, person and deeds in full blown immoral action. As the saying goes, it's not a pretty picture.

    Tropper is now like the Charedi world's Nixon who was braught down by his own carelessness in speaking into phones and forgetting that what people at his seminars were video-taping was not his great sermons but rather his despicable to'evas. He can't and won't recover from this.

    He is now in the status of R Lanner the former charismatic NCSY kiruv rabbi who is now on the US's sex-offender registries and he cannot move anywhere without this being known. Tropper has made sure that he has pinned his owned hard earned "letter A" to his rabbinic garb which he will now have to wear in shame to the end of his days, and it's unlikely given his psyche and raging testoterone that he can ever come right again. He is and always was damaged goods, too bad that now Klal Yisroel has to pay the price.

    "Bright Eyes said...So, Tropper has resigned, denies any wrongdoing, and the frum power base is satisfied..."

    RaP: Tropper is 100% finished. He would never have resigned from head of EJF if he thought he had any life left in his professional career. He can maybe write a book about his escapades, call it something like "Tropper's Tricky Trip" in the spirit of the the Clinton Chronicles, that's about it.

    "The video evidence MUST be made public..."

    RaP: Agreed!

    ReplyDelete
  30. RaP: You give us hope. Thank you and Happy Hanukkah.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Monsey Tzadik,
    Stop being nasty to Lenhoff .

    Recipients and Publicity, ..
    "R Wachtfogel is a pure hireling at a far-off Catskills yeshiva that barely hangs by a thread."

    You are completely wrong about your info.R'Wachtfogel is not a "hireling" but the very base of South Fallsburg Yeshiva, he raises the money and gives a shiur to about a 120 boys who are 90% of the yeshiva.Fallsburg is one of the top yeshivos in America, it is not holding by a thread as you put it, and R'Elya Ber as he is known by everybody, nobody needs to say his last name, is universally loved and respected.
    Get your facts right next time.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Monsey Tzadik, where is your evidence that R' Tropper pays people to bring him intermarried couples?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Feinstein endorsed TropperDecember 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

    Reuven Feinstein's comment seems to mean that he endorsed Tropper up to now.

    Therefore, all the statements and arguments that took place on this blogspot in the past, about Reuven Feinstein endorsing or not endorsing Tropper seem to be solved in Tropper's favour....

    ReplyDelete
  34. Recipients and PublicityDecember 16, 2009 at 12:17 PM

    Here we go, the "great defenders" arrive on the scene, welcome boys we look forward to debating you, hope you are up to it

    "Steven said...You are completely wrong about your info.R'Wachtfogel is not a "hireling" but the very base of South Fallsburg Yeshiva, he raises the money and gives a shiur to about a 120 boys who are 90% of the yeshiva."

    RaP: So? He is still hired by them to do all that. The owners and BOSSES who call all the shots remain the Gorelicks (by the way the family is originally Lubavitch from Europe, did you know that?) and R EB Wachtfogel is hired to do his part, and they get a bargain, a magid shiur and fundraiser all wrapped into one. But that is where the problem lies. If he were just doing what he had done for most of the years he was there and remained an innocent ehrliche magid shiur, no one could have questions. But once he got involved in raising money, and running PR campaigns to have his picture in the centerfolds of the Yated and Modia he messsed himself up big time, as anyone can now see he got involved with the WRONG CROWD, because Tropper, Kaplan and Guma are ALL controversial people, no one denies it, it's a fact, and if R EB Wachtfogel got money from Kaplan and Guma (that is provably known) through Tropper one must point a finger at him and ask him what was going on? What were you thinking when you took money from Tropper? Did you know that Tropper had a problematic past? Were you aware that at the very time that Tropper was giving you money it was coming from Guma whose wife was still refusing to abide by EJF's/Tropper's diktats? Can you sleep well at night now that Tropper has been outed as a poshutte menuval and no'ef and you take over his shtelle? There are many more such questions, but this is a good start. Do you or does R EB Wachtfogel have ANY answers to them beyond "ich bin a gadol zait mekabel mein [krumme] da'as" -- the same approach that Tropper tried to force on anyone who disagreed with him and made him enemy after enemy!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Recipients and PublicityDecember 16, 2009 at 12:18 PM

    Steven says: "Fallsburg is one of the top yeshivos in America,"

    RaP: Hahahahahahaha, nuf said, Next joke!

    "it is not holding by a thread as you put it,"

    RaP: If it so desperate that it must take and make funny money through the likes of the shady Tropper, then it's in a desperate situation! Why can't the Gorelicks raise their own money, pay their magidei shiur proper salaries, keep them out of trouble like the EJF mess, and not force them to humiliate themselves by running around with shady characters to get money that is not their job to do in the first place. You don't hire a top magid shiur and then tell him to go raise his and yours and everyone's salary. That is called abuse and crazines, a meshugas.

    "and R'Elya Ber as he is known by everybody,"

    RaP: Nobody is denying that. Feel free to refer to him like that. By the way, where did R EB Wachtfogel get his shimush in dayonus? Does he have yadin-yadin semicha nd from who? Does he sit on batei din for conversions? What qualifies him to pasken on all the world's batei din? He had a nice choshuve father, but what does he know about klal work dealing with kiruv and geirus shaylos that are not part of any regular magid shiur's job? Would he get involved in paskening treifos and kashris shaylus, they are easier than geirus ones. What are his views about dealing with the Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionist rabbinates and worlds? Does he favor attacking them or getting along with them? Is he in favor of working the with the Zionist Chief Rabbis of Israel? Do his Brisker friends approve of all this? How will he answer Rav Shternbuch's and the BADATS's call to all rabbonim to stay away from EJF? It only gets tougher when you step into Tropper's sticky shoes.

    "nobody needs to say his last name,"

    RaP: Why not? Are you a dictator too? This is a simple blog where people speak up, not a yeshiva. If you miss that don't be a batlan and go back to learning and don't come here to insult people with shtusim.

    "is universally loved and respected."

    RaP: Even by his first wife from whom he got divorced? What happened there or is it not our business like no one was allowed to know why Tropper dumped his first wife for another woman.

    "Get your facts right next time."

    RaP: Like what? please be more specific. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Recipients and PublicityDecember 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM

    "Feinstein endorsed Tropper said...Reuven Feinstein's comment seems to mean that he endorsed Tropper up to now."

    RaP: A nechtigen tog! What are you talking about? That was then, this is now (as the expression goes). That is a dead debate because at that time Tropper still had a shred of outward public respectability, but now that the floodgates of proof of his inward immorality have broken open, R Reuven Feinstein is swimming for his life!

    It's every man for himself now as the rats jump off the sinking Tropper ship as they now fake EVERYTHING by creating the illusion of respectability and distance, otherwise how does it look, that R Reuven Feinstein and R EB Wachtfogel are stepping into the shtelle of a proven no'ef and accused?

    There is only one hope for them, let then fess up, give Guma back his money (in the case of R Reuven Feinstein, Guma has told reliable sources that he put 3 MILLION dollars into R Reuven's own hands and deep pockets), issue an apology, shut down EJF unconditionally and never again come up with such hair-brained schemes.

    The whole idea of having one rabbinical group controlling all the others is treif and anti the 2000 year old mesora. Every kehilla is responsble for itself and no rov or gadol may act God and try to impose his will UNTIL THE COMING OF THE MASHIACH.

    "Therefore, all the statements and arguments that took place on this blogspot in the past, about Reuven Feinstein endorsing or not endorsing Tropper seem to be solved in Tropper's favour...."

    RaP: Very funny! You are obviously ignoring what happened in the past few days, tapes of Tropper's own voice soliciting immorality and not conversions, leading to his quick ouster, the scramble to find a replacement.

    Not one source or person who knows Tropper has ever trusted a word he says. Like the old story of the boy who cried wolf, Tropper shouted so many times that he was endorsed by gedolim and was always proven wrong and a liar that finally when a single voice offered him a "golden handshake compliment" no doubt to shut him up and not cause more harm, it cannot be seeen as anyhthing but cynical maneovering and fakery to save their necks and not much more.

    So stop "kvelling" when Tropper/Feinstein/Wachtfogel are bogged down in real bizyones that are shameful as they try to whistle a happy tune and make the best of an obvious disaster.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Reuven Feinstein's comment seems to mean that he endorsed Tropper up to now
    That's not how I read his statement. Rav Feinstein talks about more closely supervising the halacha committee now, but he was already its head! I read this as saying "Before I was just lending my title to this organization, but now I will have to be actively involved in what is going on."

    If Rav Feinstein wanted to show that he supported R. Tropper's approach to conversion (as opposed to supporting R. Tropper himself) he would have said something like "In the wake of R. Tropper's departure I will continue to head the halacha committee and provide halachic guidance as new sheilot come before the organization."

    ReplyDelete

ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE POSTED!
please use either your real name or a pseudonym.